impreza vs camaro

Originally posted by ldelaysionl


alright i can see how that happened... that is kinda funny. :cwn27:

It was ragged out too, one pipe was hanging... Sounded like crap. I had a good laugh out of it :hehehe: Even better laugh when it happened agian ;)

wait.. let me get this straight. spec v is saying that a scooby with the same amount of hp as a cobra will take it in the 1/4??? haha kinda wrong there buddy... after a certain amount of time wouldn't the awd system just rob it from highspeed? the power from the engine in the scooby would distribute throughout the wheels and it would lose high end acceleration right? and the cobra would have all it's power going to the rear wheels and it would get alot better high end acceleration right?? so how the hell is the scooby gonna beat it?? ahhh i dunno
just my 2 pennies.. i might be wrong

what the hell does scooby mean.
if my car was called a scooby i'd be pretty pissed off

Originally posted by chebbiesux
what the hell does scooby mean.
if my car was called a scooby i'd be pretty pissed off

subaru---scoobydoo...get it?

your all pretty funny as far as the subie goes they make decent cars as far as handling they all perform but this idiocy has to stop a wrx yes might pull on a stock gt maybe get lucky and hang with a cobra but the fact is that car makes 227 hp from 2 small litres that is a work of art but theres no substitute for raw power and besides a wrx looks like another bug eyed underpowered jap racer please all go home and buy a subie

"wait.. let me get this straight. spec v is saying that a scooby with the same amount of hp as a cobra will take it in the 1/4??? haha kinda wrong there buddy... after a certain amount of time wouldn't the awd system just rob it from highspeed? the power from the engine in the scooby would distribute throughout the wheels and it would lose high end acceleration right? and the cobra would have all it's power going to the rear wheels and it would get alot better high end acceleration right?? so how the hell is the scooby gonna beat it?? ahhh i dunno
just my 2 pennies.. i might be wrong"



Well I don't know the weight of each car but if the scooby is lighter it could do it. And the wrx does low 14's now but with the extra hp someone might be able guess what it would do.

subarus... camaros... mustangs...

pleaseeee you're all forgetting whos the king of all handling cars...

pssh Skyline? yeah right.. he wishes..

haha Diablo? nope.. he falls behind as well..

hehe mclaren? slow poke!

Im talking about the 54 Chevy Belair weighing in at just under 87 Tons with 200hp with 3 On the Tree!

All that power, and No Seatbelts.

Bow down people... Bow Down.
:hehehe:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh All right, who dug this thing up?

hahahahhahahha

stock for stock the wrx would get wooped, but if with a larger turbo, it is a monster. i need to go to the trak to get some slips.....im waiting on some egt and fuel pressuer guages......but im absolutly sure i could run somewere in the 12's. the grip on a rex is what give it the advantage, wile lots of wrd cars spin there wheels the rex is on its way. now the rex does have a horibly slow trap speed, i think this is due to the awd. but you have to give our little car credit, 2.0 litters, under 25,000 it pack a big punch. i think some of you guys are comparing it with cars way outta its leage. but thats what makes ure cars great, they hold up well with cars of a much larger displacement and higher price. and to that other guy, the wrx comuntiy takes pride in there cars and how we as car owners are represented. we like to keep a classy image, if you start making a buch of ridiculus remarks it reflects on the way other people veiw wrx owners. just keep you cool. :sun:

Hey, I like the WRX. Its just not matching up to all the hype that goes on about them. My wife wants me to buy her one of the WRX wagon type models. Ought to do all right on these ky hills in the snow.

Originally posted by ldelaysionl
before the end of the straight stretch he turns off into a driveway, which sucks for me cuz there was a killer set of corners coming up and he was going down. :devil:

wait till i get some real hp so he cant leave me on the straights cuz i was smoking his ass in the corners.


STI engine and some nitrous !!!!


o yea very nice!! :hehehe: that woulda been tight it woulda been takumi style :hehehe:

How much does a 02 camaro z28 cost? under 25k right??

Plain and simple, cobras are slow, they have to go up against z-28's instead of ss's and the cobra will beat the wrx in the 1/4 but not in the twisties!

Originally posted by erricer
Plain and simple, cobras are slow, they have to go up against z-28's instead of ss's and the cobra will beat the wrx in the 1/4 but not in the twisties!

Really. The funny thing is there not making the camaro anymore. Somthing about not being able to sell any. Now, the 2003 cobra walks all over the ss, the tables are turned.

Originally posted by 94svt5.0


Really. The funny thing is there not making the camaro anymore. Somthing about not being able to sell any. Now, the 2003 cobra walks all over the ss, the tables are turned.


well, its not the Camaros fault that its getting cut... its the car salesmen at the Chevy dealerships. The Chevy finacial system is all screwed up. the basicaly turn down would-be Camaro owners cause they dont think they make enough $$$.

I've heard reports of people walking into Chevy dealers and asking about the Camaro and being led away from it towards a Cavalier or a Monte... they didnt PUSH it like Ford does the Mustang. As for Ford, you walk up asking about the Mustang they'll bend over back wards to get you into one... they dont care they love selling them to younger kids to keep up the Young guy/muscle car image. Unfortunately Chevy thought differently and thus sales suffered and now they're pulling the plug.

So lets not blame the actual car, yes the Camaro is badass in any form V6/z28/SS.. I actually can afford the payments of a new Camaro!.. just my insurance would triple.... stupid insurance.

The Mustang has always been cool, except from 74-86, they were just plain ugly then... then again all cars were.


my .14 cents.

actually the cobra costs about 7k more more fully loaded than a ss the reason that no camaros are sold is not because of the salespeople lol where did you here they turn down people wanting camaros ? lol i guess they do the same with those wanting corvettes camaros are simply ugly for years the camaro has been outsold by the mustang sometimes by a margin of 3:1 either way i like both but would take new mustang before a camaro

Originally posted by 94svt5.0


Really. The funny thing is there not making the camaro anymore. Somthing about not being able to sell any. Now, the 2003 cobra walks all over the ss, the tables are turned.

No the funny thing is that the camaro is still faster than your slowbra! And another funny thing is the 2003 isn't walking all over the ss, Ive seen 2003 cobras run anywhere from high 12's to low 14's. My point is that ss's run 13.5's all day long and they dont have blowers either! Slap a blower on a ss and see what happens!

Oh didnt think about that did yah! duh:finger:

Originally posted by erricer


No the funny thing is that the camaro is still faster than your slowbra! And another funny thing is the 2003 isn't walking all over the ss, Ive seen 2003 cobras run anywhere from high 12's to low 14's. My point is that ss's run 13.5's all day long and they dont have blowers either! Slap a blower on a ss and see what happens!

Oh didnt think about that did yah! duh:finger:


Get your facts straight. The 2003 cobra would walk, yes I said walk all over the ss. The 2003 cobra runs mid to high 12s all day every day, with street tires and a driver who knows what their doing. Yes a driver can make a mistake and run slower, but if its as slow as you listed, then what you think was a 2003 was really not. Pretty much any time a modded camaro beats a mustang with snake emblems its being labeled a 2003, sad. I did not realize the ss were that slow 13.5, they better watch out for my cobra. Your sounding like a ricer, " Its not fair it has a blower" What the heck is that? Next thing you know camaros will only run cobras if they unhook 4 plugs.

Actually I've seen the 2003 Cobra run a low 15.... That buster burnt out all the way through first and second...hahahhahaha. It's not the car that isn't consistant... it's the driver.

It's so stupid one someone says shit like... well if my engine was that big.... or..... if it had a blower like yours..... thats a stupid argument.

The SS should also be able to run low 13's at near sea level with a decent driver.

All in all, the Camaro has more "bang for the buck" than the Cobra.

Originally posted by banditkiller
actually the cobra costs about 7k more more fully loaded than a ss the reason that no camaros are sold is not because of the salespeople lol where did you here they turn down people wanting camaros ? lol i guess they do the same with those wanting corvettes camaros are simply ugly for years the camaro has been outsold by the mustang sometimes by a margin of 3:1 either way i like both but would take new mustang before a camaro

i've heard it from a few people i've talked too, they said they were turned away from the Camaro by the salesmen towards other vehicles... it does sound strange but its true none the less. Chevy hasnt been the smartest the last ohh say 10 years with its cars...

lets face it...

Ford gives its customers what they want, while chevy just keeps taking away what chevy fans want, no more v-8 impala, no more v-8 monte carlo, no more camaro. Sorry but ford has a lot going for it right now.

with that said... i still have faith in Chevy... they'll come up with something... i hope... If not, im getting me a GTO!

Originally posted by 94svt5.0



I did not realize the ss were that slow 13.5, they better watch out for my cobra. Your sounding like a ricer, " Its not fair it has a blower" What the heck is that? Next thing you know camaros will only run cobras if they unhook 4 plugs.

first of all you could supercharge a bone stock Z28, much less an SS, and have a car that would absolutely spank a new cobra, and look better doing it. and you could get such a supercharger for less than 4 grand and still come in at a lower price than the new cobra. I'm not knocking the new cobras by the way, I think they're nice. all I'm saying is that if anyone talks like a ricer it is you, I've been reading some of your posts on some of the other topics as well, and seems you are a little wishy washy. As a matter of fact, I just got through reading one of your other posts where you said "straight line racing is boring" and how handling is the real challenge. make up you damn mind and stop being "that guy" who always makes himself look like an ass.

Take a look at this.
This is straight from the Ford and Pontiac websites.

Here is the price of the V8 Trans Am. Yes it has ram air and its probably around 30,000 without it. Wow big deal.
Trans Am Coupe w/ Ram Air $31,915* as shown
Here is the price of the V6 Firebird.
$20,650*

Here is the price of the V8 Mustang (GT)
MSRP $23,845*

Thats 3,000 bucks more then a V6 Firebird for a nice V8 Mustang. Duh I wonder why Firebirds and Camaros are being done away with. If GM would get their high and mighty rich heads out their asses they'd realize if they want sales, lower the fucking prices you idiots.

I gurantee the GTO is going to be around the same price too. GM doesn't learn shit and I bet they'll fuck that up so badly they end up getting rid of the GTO again as well. I don't like Fords but goddamn the people there are a hell of a lot brighter then the people at GM are.

Perhaps Firebirds are more expensive because on the Chevy site, it says that the Z28 Coupe starts at $23,430. Ford says the GT costs $23,845.

Both prices are "Starting Manufacturers Retail Price, excluding taxes, title and registration fees. Optional equipment not included."

BTW, the SS coupe starts at $28,755... even though its not much faster than the z28..

trans ams have always been more expensive than the camaro for some reason. for example, the price of a '69 camaro was between $2,638 for the straight 6 coupe to $2,940 for the V8 conv. (these are standard prices) the firebird of the same year ('69) starts at $2,821 for cpe to $3,045 for conv. the difference percentage wise is kind of like today's difference between the two except it has gone up a little bit.

by the way, a mustang in '69 started at $2,635 up to $3,588 if you wanted a 302 fstbk.... meanwhile camaro's standard V8 was a 327 and you could pick up a 327 camaro for about $2,800 bucks

but yes, trans ams are a little pricey these days, or should I say were, anyways, I would rather buy a new camaro than a new stang, and they ARE about the same price

Originally posted by MadZ


first of all you could supercharge a bone stock Z28, much less an SS, and have a car that would absolutely spank a new cobra, and look better doing it. and you could get such a supercharger for less than 4 grand and still come in at a lower price than the new cobra. I'm not knocking the new cobras by the way, I think they're nice. all I'm saying is that if anyone talks like a ricer it is you, I've been reading some of your posts on some of the other topics as well, and seems you are a little wishy washy. As a matter of fact, I just got through reading one of your other posts where you said "straight line racing is boring" and how handling is the real challenge. make up you damn mind and stop being "that guy" who always makes himself look like an ass.



Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, if you like the way a camaro looks, thats fine with me. You have my permission. What do you mean by wishy washy?? Please explain. Straight line running all the time is boring. When have I said otherwise? Please explain. Once again you illustrate you dont know what your talking about. Yes, I like to go to the dragstrip and run, but I would rather hit a set of twisties. So, quit jumping into threads and make comments and statements that just show you do not know what your talking about.

That shot my theory out the window. See I knew the Trans Am was a more expensive car regardless it being the same car as the Camaro, but damn I didn't know the base price for a Z28 was that much of a difference. Hell that Z28 is cheaper then the GT and has more power to boot. As for why the Trans Am costs more, think of Pontiac as a classier Chevrolet. Like Acura is to Honda in a way (even though Pontiac and Chevy are under GM).

Most of the stuff Optional on a Chevy is standard on a Pontiac. Little things like daytime running lights, I think thats standard on any Pontiac vehicle, whereas a Chevy vehicle may not have that unless you order it.

I thought the Z28 might be around 27,000....heh damn should of checked before I said anything.

Originally posted by 94svt5.0




Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, if you like the way a camaro looks, thats fine with me. You have my permission.

lol... I have your permission, well thanks, I appreciate it

did I mention I have nothing against fords, well there, I said it again
I like a nice looking mustang just as much as the next guy, not to mention they are some of the best sounding cars on the road. I'm just tired of the occasional ford guy who actually thinks he has the baddest car in the world. make of that what you will

I don't like camaros or mustangs. Big ass, gas-guzzling muscle cars where the only way they can get power are from cubic inches. And ever try driving one into a corner? You might as well have the chassis of a cadillac fleetwood. True, my car could not keep up with those big brutes in a straight line, but then again, straightline racing is for wussies anyway. Throw a couple of corners into the mix, and then we'll see what's up. Oh yeah and to the guy with the scooby, congrats on keeping up with a car with twice the power of yours....impressive:cool:

so.... what are you saying, your 2000 nissan maxima can out-handle my camaro?
and what is this misconception that everyone has about domestics being bad handlers? my car handles quite nicely actually. I'm sure there are many imports that handle better than me in tight turns, but last time I checked most road courses have many straight-aways as well (and I'm not talking about your wal-mart parking lot autoX here either) so what I lack in the twisties I will more than make up for on the straights. I also have failed to see any front engine four banger or six cylinder for that matter cars on any proffessional road racing circuits. (notice I said front engine, so leave porche and the like out of this)

Originally posted by MadZ
I also have failed to see any front engine four banger or six cylinder for that matter cars on any proffessional road racing circuits. (notice I said front engine, so leave porche and the like out of this)

Define, "professional road racing circuts"...........there are plenty of skyline GT-R's racing in japan touring car series to prove you wrong. By the way, the skyline is a 2.6L I-6, front engine.

MADZ, whats your car run in the 1/4?

I'm sorry, I'm not as proficient on my knowledge of japanese anything, much less their racing circuits. It's not like they ever come on espn or speedvision or anything. So....tell me, how many of these japanese road racing events have you actually watched. (my god, GT3 has brainwashed you all)

Oh, and I haven't raced my car at the track yet, but with a conv. I'd guess I would turn a low 14 in descent track conditions and temp.

I wasn't professing to watch these things in Japan, I was just acknowledging their existence. Plus, the Goody's Dash series (right here in the "good" ol' USA) is a circle track series that runs front engine 4-bangers.....they even have a couple of toyota celica's out there.

interesting, well, I was simply trying to make a point as well, and obviously since this arguement could go on for all of eternity, I'm going to try and keep it short... I personaly would rather road race my camaro than most of your typical imports. and with some good suspension work and tires I could probably make it handle just as well.
I know this sounds kind of childish, but someone prove to me how a 4 banger import set up for road racing turns a faster lap time at any given course than say a... late model f-body or mustang set up for road racing? and some import guys even have the nerve to say that vettes are sloppy handlers as well! post some links to vids, give me a valid arguement, something please. and believe me, I will be the first to admit when I'm wrong.

Well, I don't have any video proof, I can't d/l those things since I am working with 56k here, but I will bet my life (well, maybe a lot of money) that an impreza WRX (import 4-banger) could not only stick with the F-body through the twisties, but down the straights as well. And for about the same price as an F-body, too, as well as two extra doors.

WRX's are nice, but they have their limits. their high end would suffer a bit too with the AWD. I still think you guys underestimate domestic cars

Hey, I'd take an '03 'stang cobra just as much as the next guy:smoker2:

Originally posted by street_racer_00
Hey, I'd take an '03 'stang cobra just as much as the next guy:smoker2:

Good choice.

A stock WRX will not hang with a newer Z-28 in the straights or twisties, it would have a fair chance against an LT1 Z in the straights, but the Camaro will more than hold it's own in the corners. Given equal drivers the Camaro will win hands down.

Ok, this is why you are wrong: #1: the WRX and Z28's 1/4 mile times are almost even, both running low 14's in what I have read in motor trend, road and track, and autoweek. #2: Slalom times for the WRX have been significantly faster than the Z28, probably due to the fact that the WRX is a few hundred pounds lighter AND has AWD (all-wheel drive). Also, road test editors have said that recent generation Z28's have had a "fluffy" chassis feel, whereas they have said the WRX's handling is razor sharp. Top end, the WRX probably would gradually fall behind the Z28, but on a racetrack, it would have an advantage.

front engine 4 and 6 cyl cars that regularly compete (and are successful) in professional road racing:

toyota altezza/lexus is300
toyota supra
mazda rx7 (well its a rotary)
mazda mp3/protoge/p5 (fwd)
honda civic type r (fwd)
acura integra type r (fwd)
honda s2000
nissan skyline
nissan silvia
nissan pulsar gtir
subaru wrx/wrx sti
mitsubishi lancer evolution

those are the japanese cars i can think of right now, we can get into eurpoean cars too. (bmw's, audi's, volvo's)



a z28 will pull away from a wrx at higher (freeway) speeds. but the wrx will make up for it in all but the most open of road courses. u think we underestimate domestic cars, and while that may be true, i think some of u underestimate import cars as well. given equal drivers the camaro wont always beat the wrx. if the drivers arent very experienced the wrx will win hands down because its just easy to drive fast. very forgiving on mistakes. with more skilled drivers, it would be closer, but the wrx should still win on anything short of a circle track.



and anyone who says vettes are sloppy handlers have obviously never seen a c5 in action with an experienced driver :eek:

MADZ go buy some BESTMOTORING INTERNATIONAL videos and get the video where its titled: is the Porcshe 996 KING? in that video they raced the best from the rest of the world vs. the the 3 fastest cars in japan. all stock all raced by legendary racers. thats when you'll see the corvette C5R get its doors blown off. it was all by itself in last place by a good 4 seconds. the Corvette represented the united states. and teh FR drive train with 350hp. the Ferrari F360 modena presented Italy and the MR layout with 400hp. the Porsche 996 turbo represented Germany with its AWD layout with 420hp. they chose the 3 fastest japanese imports. which was the Skyline GT-R. 280hp (yeah right~) AWD. the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 7 280hp and also AWD. then the NSX type S zero. 280hp MR. well heres how the order went

1st: Porsche 996
2nd: Skyline GT-R lost by .2 seconds
3rd: Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 7. lost by .3 seconds behind the GT-R.
4th: NSX type S zero: lost by 2 seconds behind the EVO
5th: Ferrari F360 Modena: lost by 1 second behind the NSX.
6th: Corvette C5R: lost by a good 1+ second behind the Ferrari. i was sooo far behind. even the narrator said " the cars not slow but are the other cars too much for the corvette?" cause it was all by itself in last place.

now i swear to my grand fathers grave on this video and they feature legendary racers driving them such as Kuwasa (Gan San), Tuschiya Keichi (drift king) and still drives the ARTA NSX in the GT500 series.
Hatori (japanese F1 champ) and Nakaiya (ex japanese GT champion and owns his own racing school) sooo this video proves that you can have a 6 and even a 4 banger spank some major v8 ass. soo that should be a valid enough point.

I will definately have to watch that video. are you sure it was a C5R?

was there a japanese guy driving the vette? because I've seen some very biased japanese videos where they were showing there cars go against ferrari's and and other exotics and beating them. and supposedly the jap cars were stock (yeah right)

as for the video, I'll believe it when I see it.

Originally posted by ldelaysionl
front engine 4 and 6 cyl cars that regularly compete (and are successful) in professional road racing:

toyota altezza/lexus is300
toyota supra
mazda rx7 (well its a rotary)
mazda mp3/protoge/p5 (fwd)
honda civic type r (fwd)
acura integra type r (fwd)
honda s2000
nissan skyline
nissan silvia
nissan pulsar gtir
subaru wrx/wrx sti
mitsubishi lancer evolution



define professional. do people actually pay to see civics and integras and such race? this must be another jap thing.

and if these cars are so bad ass then why aren't there any in races such as 24 hrs at LeMans?

Chew on this.

1991: Mazda prototype 3-rotor wins overall
1999: Nissan R390 (3.5L 6 cylinder front engined GT1 car) finishes on the podium

Enough said.

hey, I just found that video listed on the net and they do not compare it to a C5R from what I just read.

click here buddy (http://www.granturismo.com/bmi/vol3.html)

:D

Originally posted by street_racer_00
Chew on this.

1991: Mazda prototype 3-rotor wins overall
1999: Nissan R390 (3.5L 6 cylinder front engined GT1 car) finishes on the podium

Enough said.

hey, thats nice and all, but I was talking about the cars listed in the previous posts
skyline
lancer
etc....
etc....

Z51 is just the name of the suspension package on the vette, far from a C5R, sorry to burst your bubble

and I'm sure thats not a biased source right? the whole video magazine series supports honda! c'mon! They probably still hold a grudge over the whole hiroshima thing or something...lol

yes the Z51 is not a ordinary C5. its better then a C5 due to a better suspension and lighter wheels. plus that magazine is not honda biase. since most of the cars are nissans. in japan you will rarely ever see fast honda's. and back in 95-96 the japanese cars did compete in the Le Man's 24 our race. the R33 skyline GT-R competed and so did the NSX. however the skyline had a mechanic problem and was forced to drop out of the race. and the NSX won its class. which Tuschiya drove. and they had another NSX competeting in the GT1 class that was suppose to rival the Mclaren. it was a 600 hp turboed version. however that too suffered mechanical problems and was forced to drop out. and it hasn't really been driven ever since. you have to still give the premium japanese cars some respect man. think about it. the R33 Skyline GT-R was the first homologation car to break the 8 minute barrier at the Nuremburg test course. it completed it in 7 minutes and 49 seconds. it even blows always the new M3 with the carbon fiber body parts. that M3 did it at a speed that was supposibly really fast. which was a time of 8 minutes and the standard M3 can do it in around 8 minutes and 30 seconds. the only cars that can beat the Skylines record was the more expensive exotics that dont' count as homogolation models. like the Porsche GT2 and so on.

the 2 fastest street cars at the nurburgring are porsches. both have well over 500hp. the 3rd car is a skyline. it beat out all the other street cars to attempt. lamborghini diablos, ferrari testarossas, c5 vettes, all beaten by a 280hp skyline.

if youll look at the speedvision touring car races here in america youll see hondas, acuras, mazdas, toyotas, and the like competing. look at the JGTC in japan or touring cars in europe for more.

u dont see that kind of stuff here in america cuz the touring cars havent really caught on here yet. just like rally. for some reason most people here still think watchin a rwd v8 taurus drive in circles all day is more exciting than watching actual production-based vehicles go around a road course or fly through the forest on icy roads in the middle of the night :confused:

and a z51 vette is a long way from a c5r.

In the defense of madZ, they could have used a Z06 or something faster than a "regular" c5, that might have made a difference.

thanks for posting this info. I had no idea that skylines had ever competed in the past.
wasn't trying to flame on yall about the whole C5R thing, I just found it hard to believe so I had to prove otherwise.
I'll still have to watch that video. I have a hard time believing that it's not a biased source.



Originally posted by ldelaysionl

u dont see that kind of stuff here in america cuz the touring cars havent really caught on here yet. just like rally. for some reason most people here still think watchin a rwd v8 taurus drive in circles all day is more exciting than watching actual production-based vehicles go around a road course or fly through the forest on icy roads in the middle of the night :confused:

I 100% agree with you here, I for one love watching rally, and get too bored watching nascar

I watch all kinds of racing all over the world, and I have to say the most exciting is rally racing. Nothing gets me more pumped up than watching those cars fly over those jumps at 100 mph and slide sideways through a path in the forest while the spectators are only some 20 or 30 yards away, even closer at some points, it's great!:frog:

well MADZ that was a mistake on my part. if completely forgot that the C5R is a totally different car then a ordinary C5. when you told me that Z51 is no where near as good as a C5R. i was thinking. hmmmmmmmmmm oh shit!! the C5R is the car that competes in the u.s. 12 hour lemans races!! ooops. sooo that was my screw up. however. they drivers are looking at these cars from a very very neutral perspective. Tuschiya praised the Vette for its power and handling. and Nakaiya actually writes his own Porsche magazine called Porsche fan. in fact they even did a special issue in BESTMOTORING all about american cars. the catch line for that title was. "how do american's make fast cars? simple you strap the biggest engine on to the lightest chassis possible. and it works!" they didn't translate that issue yet though.

plus you got to understand that the japanese cars in japan are on a totally different level then the japanese cars int he states. most of the cars you see in japan that are tuned has all show and almost no go. all there kits are real functional pieces that don't weigh the car down and add drag. instead it lightens the car and decreases the Co efficient of drag and adds down force. the people in japanese tuner shops even give out loans for people to modify their cars. in japan if you go to a skyline meeting. if your skyline doesn't have atleast 700hp they look at you with a weird face. plus i've seen videos of japanese highway battles. and they straped a camera on to a skyline and you see it acelerate and acelerate and acelerate on a narrow ass 2 lane highway until it breaks the 200mph point. all the cars and trucks by then was being pasted like it was goin the opposite direction. not to mention the monster drag skylines made for the 0-300km (0-186 mph) dash. the fastest i've seen it was a old gold R32 which did it in 13.75 seconds. thats why the imports in the states are garbage compared to the imports in the land of the rising sun. we can all only dream of participating in the stuff they do cause its absolutely insane. i can almost garantee you. you take any demonstic. trap a blower or whatever you want to it. and the imports in japan can run with the best if not beat it.

my 2 cents.

I think this is clearly a case of the grass being greener on the other side.
I bet japanese kids over there think that f-bodies and vettes are cool, just as you guys are drooling over skylines and sh*t.

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but I strongly believe it.

I'd be willing to bet that 95% of the people who are drooling over skylines and lancer's and such had no idea that these cars even existed until the first "Gran Turismo" came out.

I'm not pointing fingers here either, so don't get your panties in a wad. some of you guys in this post seem to know what your talking about, but seriously, am I the only one that sees this?

I can't say I fall into that percentage, I haven't even played on a PS2, nevermind own one.

madz you are extremely right. it was Gran Turismo that introduced me to true JDM cars. there is nothing wrong with that. it just happen to take "discoverying them" to the next level. i actually studied these cars. usually when i have a favorite car. it always gets replaced by another one in a month or so. but thats not the case with the skyline. no matter how i look at it. i cna't seem to find a single weakness thats strong enough for me to de throne it. the nsx had been dethroned. the firebird had been dethroned, the VR4 had been dethroned, the 300ZX TT had been dethroned. and the supra mark IV TT had been dethroned. all of these cars took about a month of research for me to find a major flaw. but i've been drooling over the skyline since 98!!! and i still love it more and more. the more i find out about it. the more impressed i am with it. and that car continues to evolve every year. even if its in the same generation. they would always do stuff to it to make it even better.