Viper vs GT40

what do you think about this comparison? who comes out as winner in the catigories? GT40: 500hp 500ftLB torque. Viper: 500hp 500ftLB torque

This is almost impossibe to compare until Ford decides the exact weight and performance specs of the GT-40. I have heard rumor tha they are shooting for a 2,800 pound curb weight. If that is true, it'll be a tough car to beat.

I am leaning toward buying a GT-40 before buying the SRT-10 GTS Coupe that will be out in 2 years.

Brad

damn. you must be loaded with money. i read in motortrend that the gt40 will be in the 100k range

According to friends who spoke to Ford reps, the GT-40 will be priced exactly at the same price the Viper is at ($75k to $80k). They also said that they will produce 300 in the first year, but I am hoping that they do more (to meet the demand). I expect that their target production is going to be about 1,000 to 1,500 a year like the Vipers.

Even if the GT-40 were going to be priced at $100k, I would probably get one. It's not about money, as much as priorities...

FYI, I am a working grunt that just loves cars (I also am married and have 3 small children). I buy cars to drive and to run on the tracks several times a year. None of my cars are "collectibles". What in the hell is the use of buying these incredible machines, if you don't take them to the track and appreciate what they were designed for? I never gave a $hit about what people thought about the cars that I own. Aside from my wonderful family, it's my passion... I am truly blessed.

Brad

indede you are. it looks as in a race it will come down to the driver.

Originally posted by Viper 10


None of my cars are "collectibles". What in the hell is the use of buying these incredible machines, if you don't take them to the track and appreciate what they were designed for? I never gave a $hit about what people thought about the cars that I own.

Brad

yeah i don't understand those people that have cars like ferrari and keep them in a garage and get like 50 miles a year on them. that should be ilegall if you ask me Cars are built to drive!!!

if you have the money to buy it, please do us that don't a favor, and drive it or give it to one of us. I respect Brad (Viper10) an extreme amount, not only does he own the cars I love but he drives them with the passion that they deserve.

I wish he'd adopt me :D LOL

in all honesty back to the subject, I have heard that the T40 is supposed to wipe the Viper off the road, but then I have also heard that it should be a CLOSE race. being the Mopar Man that I am I hope that the GT40 falls on its face.... but I do hope that Ford and DC get into a power war from the days of the Charger, Cudas, mustangs, and all the good muscle cars. maybe it'll even fall over into the trucks, the RAM SRT10 and the Lightning.....

Originally posted by BUFF_dragon
if you have the money to buy it, please do us that don't a favor, and drive it or give it to one of us. I respect Brad (Viper10) an extreme amount, not only does he own the cars I love but he drives them with the passion that they deserve.

I wish he'd adopt me :D LOL

in all honesty back to the subject, I have heard that the T40 is supposed to wipe the Viper off the road, but then I have also heard that it should be a CLOSE race. being the Mopar Man that I am I hope that the GT40 falls on its face.... but I do hope that Ford and DC get into a power war from the days of the Charger, Cudas, mustangs, and all the good muscle cars. maybe it'll even fall over into the trucks, the RAM SRT10 and the Lightning.....

Buff:

Thanks for the kind words. I hope that all of you will follow suit when you make the money that you need to prusue your passions.

As for the Dodge-Ford-Chevy wars from the days of old, I would not bet anyone's money on that as long as the Germans from Damler are running the show. Since the merger, Chrysler has really taken a downturn in their direction and momentum. If anyone is up to stepping to the plate, it would be Lutz at GM (who by the way, got Chrysler to where they are and is credited with being the father of the Viper, Prowler, PT Cruiser, 300M and Charger). I truly hope that things change for Chrysler.

Even their recent announcement to produce the GTS Coupe version of the SRT-10 is a day late and a dollar short. They will be turning this Snake out a year after the GT-40. Why is the heck would Daimler-Chrysler release the SRT-10 Convertible, when the public demanded the GTS Coupe that toured all of the world's car shows for the last 3 years? If the SRT-10 Convertible hit the car show tour, they would have been boo'd out of the show. It looks like a freakin' souped up Sebring!

Sorry for the rant, I just expected more out of the guys that designed my Viper. Unfortunately none of those senior people are there anymore... just a bunch of German leeches stealing technology, manufacturing processes, styling and (most of all) the money that Chrysler had in the bank (which exceeded $9 billion).

This is what I get for being passionate...

Brad

I wouldn't be so harsh on the germans you never know if the rumors are true or not.

And what I would really like to see is a Viper AMG. That would be fast.
:D :D :D

Originally posted by Neutrino
I wouldn't be so harsh on the germans you never know if the rumors are true or not.

And what I would really like to see is a Viper AMG. That would be fast.
:D :D :D

Neutrino:

With all due respect I beg to disagree with you.

Take a look at this article about Iacocca's view of this matter. He admits that he really blew it when he appointed Eaton over Lutz as the CEO of Chrysler. Eaton basically sold out to the to the Germans when he didn't have to. Chrysler was more profitable and had a huge amount of cash ($9 billion) in the bank (which Daimler needed to pay off their huge debt).

Check out theis article Iacocca On The Record (http://detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0203/20/a01-442582.htm) .

This is an excellant read. If you want to read more on this subject read "Taken For A Ride" by Vlasic and Stertz (published by Harper Collins). It gives you the bloody details of this unfriendly take over that was sold to the shareholders as a friendly merger.

Kirk Kerkorian is in court sueing Daimler for lying to the shareholders of Chryler. If it is proven to be true, Schrempp will lose his a$$ and the CEO position at Daimler Benz. Mark my words on that.

Brad

I guess they are not just rumours then. So you are right they sold out.

But I still maintain my statement that would be nice to see a Viper moded by AMG.

Neutrino:

There is a Viper done by AMG under the name of Startech. They are extremely overpriced and do not improve performance on the Viper. They produce a 20" wheel that is heavier than a boulder and makes the car handle worse than stock. They also make a brake package that looks pretty but is unproven. They produce an exhaust system that requires the cutting of the rear fascia to fit, and that they have not dyno'd to even see if it does better or worse than stock.

Finally they make a double adjustable coil-over shock replacement that they can't tel me whatthey used as a benchmark when designing the spring rates and shock valving... (what in the hell were they thinking?).

They tried recruiting me to use my car and I told them no way! I don't see much engineering coming from Startech. They seem to be marketing their wares to the showboat Viper owners who don't really drive their cars, but want to brag about there designer labels...

Not my style.

Brad

I am surprised about the AMG moded viper. They really did that bad of a job? AMG is one of the most respected names in the industry and their moded mercedes are excellent all around. But I guess you are the expert in vipers so you know what you are talking about. Just a thought:could it be that AMG didn't try that hard to mod it maybe they just did a pach up job just so they can say they did it.

I personally don't know what their motivation was to do the Viper. here is their web site:

http://www.startech.de/homee.htm

I will say that the only car that the Gemans were interested in when they came to the US Chrysler plants was the "Wiper". It took the Chrylser people a while to figure out what they were saying.

Brad

i can see it now... when you viper fans find out the gt-40 is faster all of a sudden PRICE MATTERS hmmmm us corvette guys feel pretty dang good ;-)

Originally posted by vettemaan
i can see it now... when you viper fans find out the gt-40 is faster all of a sudden PRICE MATTERS hmmmm us corvette guys feel pretty dang good ;-)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I also own a Corvette. As far as your dumb comment about price, it only matters when it doesn't buy you anything.

I get very tired of people that stereotype other owners like you are doing. Why do you think that others do the same to all of you Corvette owners? You live and die by that sword... A small minority of loud mouths give many owners and enthusiasts a bad name in all brands. Don't fall into that trap, because it lowers your intelligence.

I love all cars and have owned many. I have no allegience to Dodge or Chevy, just because I own their products. I have owned Audi's, BMW's, Datsun's, Mitsubishi's, Acura's, Honda's and Ford's. So are you going to now label me a German snob or a ricer?

Brad

My .02 Cents,

I think the GT-40 will beat the viper any day of the week. It seems to be a much more refined design, with the mid engine DOHC V8 layout. The Viper is a OHV V10 with wheels. Respectable, but not refined. Mid-engine cars are proven better performers than heavy front engined cars, especially in the corners. Maybe a tuned viper can beat a GT-40 in the 1/4 mile, but that is only part of a cars true performance. But then it is all speculation till the GT-40 hits the road.

I heard first year ford is making only 100, in the 100k price range. Production to double the next year. If I were Ford, I wouldn't try to be competative with the viper. The will not have any problem selling the GT-40s regardless of price (within reason of course) and a limited production run is just what is needed to build the mythos of the name "GT-40"

One last thing, GT-40 looks better than the Viper, and that is not speculation! (just opinion, feel free to ignore!)

The GT-40 is refined? LOL, they didn't change the design much from the original, that is not what I would call defined. And you assume the the GT-40 will kill a Viper, you don't even know the specs, like you said it is all speculation. With that being said I won't say which I think is faster because nobody knows that yet. Besides, which Viper? The RT/10, GTS, GT2, GTS-R Prototype, or the king GTS-R? I am afraid that past the GTS the specs they are speculating would not beat those Vipers.

Originally posted by Viper 10


Sorry to burst your bubble, but I also own a Corvette. As far as your dumb comment about price, it only matters when it doesn't buy you anything.

I get very tired of people that stereotype other owners like you are doing. Why do you think that others do the same to all of you Corvette owners? You live and die by that sword... A small minority of loud mouths give many owners and enthusiasts a bad name in all brands. Don't fall into that trap, because it lowers your intelligence.

I love all cars and have owned many. I have no allegience to Dodge or Chevy, just because I own their products. I have owned Audi's, BMW's, Datsun's, Mitsubishi's, Acura's, Honda's and Ford's. So are you going to now label me a German snob or a ricer?

Brad


All that, three kids and a wife, wow! :eek: We need more of you!

Originally posted by Polygon
The GT-40 is refined? LOL, they didn't change the design much from the original, that is not what I would call defined. And you assume the the GT-40 will kill a Viper, you don't even know the specs, like you said it is all speculation. With that being said I won't say which I think is faster because nobody knows that yet. Besides, which Viper? The RT/10, GTS, GT2, GTS-R Prototype, or the king GTS-R? I am afraid that past the GTS the specs they are speculating would not beat those Vipers.

I didn't say refined, I said "more refined" as in more refined than the front engine viper. And, if you check, they completely redesigned the GT-40, (not that is would have hurt if they didn't, since the GT-40 is one of the classic race cars of all time) Basically, it only looks the same.

The original question was, "Viper vs GT-40, what do you think?" I said what I thought, based on things I know about cars. It is all speculation and opinion. If you were looking for facts, go check a spec sheet for torque ratings on head bolts.

Ok, that is true. As for the which Viper question, that was more directed towards the person who started this thread. I guess I should have been more clear.

If ford only makes 100, theres no point in this comparison in the first place, since you can just go and pick up a viper. Good luck trying to find a GT-40 anywhere.

Vipers are custom ordered. You can't just go pick one up at the local dealer. And you can't take it for a test drive.

Originally posted by Whitebread
Vipers are custom ordered. You can't just go pick one up at the local dealer. And you can't take it for a test drive.

True, for new ones. There are two specialty car dealers in my area, and at any given moment one of them has a viper you can drive away with, given you have a serious chunk of cash. There is one that has a "colorfull" (translation: stupid) paint job and one of those huge spoilers you see on accords. (note: original spoiler still intact too!) Obviously a lot of work has been put into the car, along with time and money, and I could just buy it! (no, I can't just buy it, I am poor, it is a rhetorical statement.)

(my unsolicited opinion on pointless comparisons)

Yeah, all these comparisons are pointless until the GT-40 comes out and you know which viper is being compared to it, but isn't that part of the fun of being a "car guy" (or girl!*)?
Two guys standing on the sidewalk with a couple of beers, "okay, GT-40 vs. the Ferrari it beat at, um, that race, only the GT-40 has a head start, and, wait, yeah, is being driven by a monkey!"
"Dude, obviously the GT-40, I mean, have you ever tried to race a monkey? esspecially one in a faster car?"

(*gotta respect the ladies, given my track record thus far, I can't afford to piss off any of them!)

i found a sight today that ford is going to build it with the supercharged V-8 and it gave a few specs, it did a 0-60 in 4 flat, 1/4 mile in 12.2, and it only held like, .89 g's or sumthin so it's close to the viper, but not close enough, cuz the srt-10 does 0-60 in like, 3.8 or 3.9 and the 1/4 mile in 12 flat, and it can hold over 1.0 g on the skidpad, and if you do compare the Viper and GT40, then wait till they come out with the coupe/GTS version of the car and compare them two, or better yet, put it against the competiton coupe/GTS-R, then watch it get beat the snot out of, well actually its close i guess but the viper is still better.:sun: just not by much

I thought the Viper pulled very high 90's or greater in laterial acceleration.

Originally posted by Whitebread
I thought the Viper pulled very high 90's or greater in laterial acceleration.

I've seen 2 magazines test the current GTS's at 1.03 G's...

The new SRT-10 has had the engine lowered over an inch in the engine bay to lower its center of gravity even more. I would be disappointed if it doesn't exceed 1 G.

Brad

I would too but I'm more conserned with the performance of the GTS-R that DC just approved for production. I think that the new convertable looks like a big S2000.

There is no GTS-R. If you are referring to the Competition Coupe, the engine performance is pretty mild. I believe that they are viewing themselves as a provider of a competitive chassis, and a basic engine configuration for racing. They are leaving it up to the respective teams to modify the engines further.

On the GTS-R's that Oreca was bulding for Dodge, they came with 2 engine option. One with a 600+ HP layout and a 800 HP configuration. The chassis were tubed and the bodies were carbon fiber and they were made to run Le mans and ALMS right out of the box. The Competition Coupe and the old GTS-R's were not set up for Trans Am racing. I do not believe that the Competition Coupe have carbon fiber body panels (which is why they are significantly cheaper (in price) to the GTS-R.

I hope that this answers your question.

Brad

I was refering to the compatition coupe, thanks it's cleared up now. But there is one thing. I went to the NY auto show in the Jacob Javits center and saw a prototype GTS coupe with the same engine that is used in the new convertable viper. Is that still just a prototype or does dodge have biger plans for that car (Besides the compition coupe)?

DC has NOT announced any plans to make a Coupe version of the SRT-10. They have told the VCA that they need to make a profit on the SRT-10 Convertible before moving forward with the Coupe. Now, you tell me how a car manufacturer can make a handmade high performance car like a Viper for under $100k at a production run of less than 1,400 cars per year? It won't happen. I believe that DC is doing their very best to kill the Viper project altogether,because it is not consistant with the Daimle "image" (which to me means silver and boring).

the best hope that we have is that DC is bought or they seel off the Chrylser unit to another carmaker or to go private. I have heard credible rumors about Toyota making a move to buy DC.

By the way, the prototype that you probably saw had a much lower raked windshield (which was actually 4 inches shorter than the stock windshield of the current Viper). That windshield was abandoned because of the lack of headroom, and the same exact windshield that is on my GTS is being used for the production SRT-10.

O ok, thank you. That clears everything up.

Viper. Hands down. The GT40 might be an awesome car, but I don't think it will beat the Viper. Dodge makes better vehicles then Ford, well besides the MUstang and maybe the GT40. Still Dodge makes kick a$$ vehicles.:) :( :o :D ;) :p :cool: :rolleyes: :mad: :eek: :confused: :alien: :alien2: :bandit: :bloated: :flipa: :finger: :devil: :frog: :grey: :licker: :smoka: :silly2: :smoker2: :sun:

Originally posted by Whitebread
Vipers are custom ordered. You can't just go pick one up at the local dealer. And you can't take it for a test drive.

LOL, probably because if they let you test drive it no-one would buy it. And please please stop saying that a car handles well cos it has 0.99, 1.02, 1.40 woteva G rating. That doesnt mean a damn thing. Its the amount of USABLE grip that determines how well the car handles. Hell you can get a F1 car capable of pulling 3G+, but id like to see Joe Public try and do it. You need a surname like Schumacher to be able to drive one of them hard without spinning

Originally posted by Whitebread
Vipers are custom ordered. You can't just go pick one up at the local dealer. And you can't take it for a test drive.

LOL, probably because if they let you test drive it no-one would buy it. And please please stop saying that a car handles well cos it has 0.99, 1.02, 1.40 woteva G rating. That doesnt mean a damn thing. Its the amount of USABLE grip that determines how well the car handles. Hell you can get a F1 car capable of pulling 3G+, but id like to see Joe Public try and do it. You need a surname like Schumacher to be able to drive one of them hard without spinning



oh and on the original topic, the new GT40 will have to be a pretty poor representation of the old one to be worse than the Viper.

I don't really know what to say I mean are there any hard facts on what the GT40 will have as far as power and weight?

If it has close to the same power as the 03 Viper and weighs a whole lot less, it'll probably beat the Viper in a drag race. On a road course I wouldn't have a clue it might beat it there as well. I like the Viper a hell of a lot better but if the GT40 turns out to be quicker and everything then it just has to be accepted.

LOL, probably because if they let you test drive it no-one would buy it.

Who the fuck are you kidding? I bet anyone who gets behind the wheel of a Viper is probably going to like it. That raw power it has is enough to make it enjoyable. Then again you gotta be able to afford it.

Originally posted by DeViL

Who the fuck are you kidding? I bet anyone who gets behind the wheel of a Viper is probably going to like it. That raw power it has is enough to make it enjoyable. Then again you gotta be able to afford it.

Well actually i know a few people who have driven it (2 are pro racing drivers) and they all said they were unimpressed with it. It is quite fast, but there is faster for the money, and everyone said it is just too big n heavy to go through the corners as quickly as it should for its power and price.

I know other people here seem to care about it's handling but I for one don't give a damn. If it has the ability to make a left or right turn from a stop light and get me into the lane I want, thats good enough for me. If I lose control a bit and its possible to get it back into control, thats good enough.

What can I buy for $70,000 (if I had the money) that is better then a Viper? And is that car even sold in America?

a better car for that price? Easy, Chevrolet Corvette Z06

or:

These are just the sports car types for the same or less money
Porsche 911 C2
Maserati Spyder
Maserati 4200GT
AC 212 S/C
Ultima GTR (do you get these last two in the US?)

and here are some Coupes and Saloons which are faster/better
Nissan Skyline R34 GTR (controversial for some of you, but faster yes)
BMW M Coupe
BMW M3
there are others, but this will do for now

The Viper may be faster than some of these 0-60, but id like to see Joe Public try and put all that power down first time without spinning the wheels

I hate to say it but he's right. Although, in the right hands the Viper can be a great performer.

Z06 is a real contender for the Viper yes. Chevy can make great engines. However a Viper is faster in a drag race stock for stock, and that Z06 can probably take it on a road course I wouldn't doubt it. Again, I don't care about road courses.

I was lookin through the pics of all these cars and...

Porsche 911 C2 - Couldn't find anything on this, maybe you could post specs?
Maserati Spyder - Unless this thing is lighter then a Vette, it's not going to beat a Viper. And its a convertible so I doubt it's very light.
Maserati 4200GT - Same car, from what I found from specs it said this thing weighs 3,146 lbs w/ 390 hp. This thing would be more of a contender for the Z06 Vette then the Viper. Very close weight range and close to the same power. I'd like to see that race.
AC 212 S/C - Ok I tried looking for this and I found the name popped up as a fake Shelby Cobra, reviews said that this thing was slow in comparison to the real thing. I hope this isn't what you're trying to show me
Ultima GTR (do you get these last two in the US?)
- The last two I don't think so, that GTR looks pretty fuckin wicked though, probably would beat a Viper

and here are some Coupes and Saloons which are faster/better
Nissan Skyline R34 GTR I wish Nissan sold these in the states, they are really nice. I'm not so sure it's better though, aren't these things underrated?
BMW M Coupe
BMW M3
Sorry but the BMWs aren't going to outrun a Viper in a drag race

That M3 has a great engine but it's can compete with a Viper.

right, ill post specs on the cars:

911 C2, its just Carrera 2, a standard 911 basically: 0-60=5.0/top speed=177mph/316bhp/273lb ft/1345kg

Maserati Spyder: 0-60=4.9/top speed=176/385bhp/333lb ft/1720kg

Maserati 4200GT: same power as Spyder, but 400kg lighter, and 0.2 secs quicker to 60, and 1 mph faster top end.

AC 212 S/C: 0-60=4.0secs/155 top end/350bhp/295lb ft/950kg. I dont know the exact specs on the original Cobra, but this is certainly a very quick car, copied or not i dont know.

Ultima GTR: 0-60=3.9/top end=204/534bhp/528lb ft/990kg

and i just found this in a magazine-Ultima Can-Am: 0-60=3.3secs!!/top end=180/539bhp/531lb ft/925kg--3.3secs 0-60 for just £60,000.

And the Coupes:

Nissan Skyline R34 GTR: 0-60=4.7secs/0-100=12.5secs/top end=165mph/276bhp/289lb ft/1560kg. you have to remember its not the straight line speed that makes this car so great, its the all round performance, and the outrageous tunability of it.

yeh youre right the BM's wont outdo the Viper in a straight line, but i was referring to all round speed when i found all the cars listed.

Originally posted by what?
Viper. Hands down. The GT40 might be an awesome car, but I don't think it will beat the Viper. Dodge makes better vehicles then Ford, well besides the MUstang and maybe the GT40. Still Dodge makes kick a$$ vehicles.:) :( :o :D ;) :p :cool: :rolleyes: :mad: :eek: :confused: :alien: :alien2: :bandit: :bloated: :flipa: :finger: :devil: :frog: :grey: :licker: :smoka: :silly2: :smoker2: :sun:

I'm sure you are not a Dodge fanboy and your opinion is not completely biased.

Am I the only one who is a fan of particular cars, not particular manufacturers or cars from a partcular area on a map?

I am a Dodge fan... BUT that doesn't mean that if something is faster, or better, I won't admit that it is..... hell, I konw there are things out there that are faster, and can handle better than a Viper.. but I want a VIPER......

with being a Dodge fan, I still admit that the Moosetangs are nice... and Crapmaros are nice too.... but that doesn't mean that I ahve to love them.... stats are stats... NOT opinons...

imports are nice, but I still like the looks of the Viper.... but thats just me

*puts flame suit on, cause I know their gonna come from the Rustang, and Crapmaro owners.....*

Maserati, funny I found a thing on the internet that said they actually produce these cars in America. I've certainly never seen one or even heard about the company. It kind of reminds me of a Ferrari/Aston Martin type car. I would of definately remembered the looks if I ever did see it on the street.

Skyline is one pretty car. I definately don't hate Nissan at all it seems to be able to create some pretty good running cars, 300ZX for one. Like I said I wish they would send the Skyline to America. Given I had the money, I'd consider it, but the 4wd kind of turns me off.

That GTR looks like some crazy ass car completely designed for road course. Very cool though how much does that thing cost?

The specs of the original Cobra had the 427 that I think was producing around 500 hp. That thing was nuts I've seen a replica with the 427 zip down the road. That AC 212 you posted probably is pretty quick but it ain't worth considering since there is a AC Cobra you can buy that is pretty much the real thing. If that is something they only produce in Europe, you're getting ripped off.

yep, there is no other car like a Maserati, below is the old Ghibli Cup:

http://www.maserati.org.au/images/MaseratiPhotos/ROAD_Cars/GhibliGT/GhibCup_burgfront1.jpg
http://www.maserati.org.au/images/MaseratiPhotos/ROAD_Cars/GhibliGT/Campan1.jpg


As for the Ultima GTR's price=£45,500. :D

they may be better but i dont think any of those cars run a 3.07 in the rear, the viper has the lowest axle ratio and it still beats almost all of those cars, the GTR is the only car that will beat it in anything because it is faster overall, and it can hold more g's and it has a faster slalom speed, but that car was designed to race, and i dont think any one of those cars has the torque range like the Viper does. and dont start that tuning bull crap because if your goin to compare cars then compare them STOCK, u can mod up a Viper to have over 1000 hp and u can mod a Skyline up to over that much too, but your going to end up spending about the same on those cars when u do because the Viper starts out with more horsepower and only has to double it to which the Skyline has to triple it. this is also GT40 versus the Viper, why are u changing the cars just because the Viper is the winner in here? why dont u go start a new forum on all those cars and everything so u can have your way.

i listed those cars because someone asked which cars would beat a Viper for the same or less money. And maybe most of those cars would lose to the Viper in acceleration, but for all round capability most of them beat the Viper. I was talking both handling and straight line speed. And anyway, you have to be a damn good driver to be able to use all the Viper's power and torque, so the average driver on the street is never gonna be able to achieve the test figures for it. The Viper is huge power, huge torque , huge weight, it is the classic American muscle car. And while you guys may love it for the same reasons as us Brits love cars like MG, it just isnt able to compete with other offerings from around the globe.

oh so now Vipers can't compete with Jap cars like S2000's or Accords?? the new Vipers will be putting down on the ground for power what the old engines were making, the engine has been lowered, it's got a longer wheelbase but it's overall longer, it has a less coefficient drag, how bout u pull your thumb outta your ass and realize that the Viper has become one of the best cars in the world, realize i say one of the best.

and the question that was asked was what is a car you can buy for 70,000 in our great country, u came up with the Skyline and Ultima GTR, i dont think the GTR can be sold here, the Skyline u can have imported but it's gonna cost damn near as much as a Viper, and there's no way a BMW or Maserati will beat a Viper for all around performance, the new one is going to be a way better performer than the old one.

0-60: 3.8
0-100: 9.3
1/4 mile: 12 @ 115
top speed: 195 drag limited, and that much power will put it over 200 mph for sure, the Diablo had 492hp, a six speed and it's final gear ratio wasn't as low as the Viper's even. tell me who has built a 505 cubic inch V-10, that's a monster. and yes u do need to be a good driver to handle this car. it also corners absolutely awesome, who are your two pro racing friends, i wanna know what they drove and on what kind of an occasion, or are these just your make believe pro racing friends, and if they're not, what do they drive in racing?

Originally posted by v10_viper
who are your two pro racing friends, i wanna know what they drove and on what kind of an occasion, or are these just your make believe pro racing friends, and if they're not, what do they drive in racing?

Well Andretti said the Viper was a sloppy car in the Road and Track article when he tested the Vette, Viper, Espirit, NSX and some other car. And my uncle owned one an it broke down all the time. So I'll take the word of a racing legend and my own family over fanboys online.

I don't hate the Viper but its not the best car in the world just because it lays down impressive numbers. Personally I think the GT-40 will outperform the Viper. Mostly because its being designed to beat the Viper and I bet Ford will do everything in its power and budget to dethrone the Viper as the King of the 1/4 mile (despite the fact that drag racing is retarded anyway). Ford has more money and more technology than Daimler Chrysler so they can do it. But then when the Viper gets redesigned they will probably take the lead again, if the Germans don't pull the plug on a niche car that doesn't earn make them much money.

Lets face it, its like America is the only country who cares about drag racing and nascar. The rest of the world is into rally races and road course tracks. Just goes to show you how much different we really are compared to everyone else.

The Viper is huge power, huge torque , huge weight, it is the classic American muscle car
But yet its heavy and slow? Contradicting yourself here aren't you?

dont think any of those cars run a 3.07 in the rear
With that said I have a question for Viper10. With that type of gear ratio, the Viper supposedly gets like 11 mpg right? With a 4.10 gear ratio, what kind of gas mileage would you be expecting? I can imagine its going to be horrible compared to most muscle cars.

i dont remember ever comparing the S2000 OR the Accord to the Viper. I was going by what you can buy for $70,000 in My country, because i dont know what prices you are charged over there. You cant talk about the new Viper because its not out yet, so you dont really know what it is like. My 2 pro racing drivers haave driven GTS Coupe's i think. One has won 2 or 3 championships over here, competed in the Bathhurst 500, and the other has won about 7 championships, and had a works TVR drive, and is an instructor at a big UK racetrack. Both have raced against huge horsepower Porsches and Vipers in an inferior cars at the Nurburgring 24 hour 3 times, and finished 40th last time out of a field of about 210. So you cant say they dont know what they are doing.

DeViL: i said that sentence with "huge weight" being the operative word. If youre name ends in Schumacher then sure the Viper is damn fast, but apart from that it is a handful, and isnt fast enough when compared with other cars.

Isn't fast enough when compared to other cars? Are you nuts? When cars are anywhere near the number a Viper puts down then they are scary fast.

Originally posted by DeViL
With that said I have a question for Viper10. With that type of gear ratio, the Viper supposedly gets like 11 mpg right? With a 4.10 gear ratio, what kind of gas mileage would you be expecting? I can imagine its going to be horrible compared to most muscle cars.

Who gets 11 mpg with the stock 3.07's (unless they were born witha 500 pound right foot)? I get that mileage when I am having fun with my car, but it is fully capable of getting over 20 mpg in 6th gear on the highway.

I don't know anyone who is stupid enough to run 4.10 gears on a Viper. That would essentially make 1st gear useless and have you revving at very high rpm's on the highway. It would also probably drop your top speed down to 150mph (with 3.55 it comes down to 165).

Sorry, but most people who own Vipers (and other exotics and muscle cars) don't care anything about gas mileage.

Who gets 11 mpg with the stock 3.07's (unless they were born witha 500 pound right foot)? I get that mileage when I am having fun with my car, but it is fully capable of getting over 20 mpg in 6th gear on the highway.

Fuel Economy
11/21 mpg
Thats what I found when I was looking for info on Vipers.

I don't know anyone who is stupid enough to run 4.10 gears on a Viper. That would essentially make 1st gear useless and have you revving at very high rpm's on the highway. It would also probably drop your top speed down to 150mph (with 3.55 it comes down to 165).
4.10 is a pretty common gear ratio for most drag racing cars. A lot of the people into it big time will go higher then that and possibly into 5.

Sorry, but most people who own Vipers (and other exotics and muscle cars) don't care anything about gas mileage.
Why the hell did you even bother saying that? I already know that but if a Viper gets a lot less mpg then most cars with a 4.10, it would be pretty annoying trying to get to the track. Probably end up refilling the tank 4 or 5 times before you get there. That would suck.

Also most people drag racing don't really care about top speed unless their top speed is around 80 or 90. I can't imagine you ending up down the 1/4 mile at 180 mph.

Devil:

First, mmy comment about 4.10's is right on in the VIPER world. Go ahead and post on the VCA web site to see how many people are running 4.10's on their Vipers. The only ones that you will find running those gears are on dedicated track cars.

Secondly, if you have done your homework on Vipers you would know that the weakest link on the Viper drivetrain are the halfshafts (followed by the differential). The halfshafts are easily turned into pretzels with just a few serious burnouts. I know someone who did it to their Snake in the first month of ownership. Most serious drag folks upgrade their halfshafts to racing ones (which still let go, but last longer than stock).

The Dana Super 44 rearend is known to take somewhere around 100-150 hard drag starts before they self-detruct (that comes directly from a source at Dana).

The other thing that you would find (if you did your homework) is that the biggest problem with racing a Viper on a 1/4 mile strip is traction. It is difficult enough to get traction with 3.07's and 3.55's. 4.10's would pretty much ensure that you are doing a burnout through at least the first 3 gears. From what I understand about drag racing (I prefer road racing), that burning out the entire quarter may look cool, but it won't win you races.

I have friends that regularly turn 11.7's in bone stock Vipers, and I also have friends (who have headers, exhaust, gears, intake, hi-flow cats and more) and can barely break 13. So what is your point? Lower gears will help you improve your 1/4 mile times? 4.10's might be a standard in the drag racing world, but not in the Viper world. My point is that going to a gear set-up like this will only make the Viper more unruly and reduce your margin for error even more.

The Viper generates an obscene amount of torque. That is why you see people who are not experienced in driving them, run embarassing times. You would be best suited at swapping the rearend differential for a solid 4 link rear end and quick change differential, if you are serious about drag racing. That's what guys like Sir Hiss are running.

With regard to your reply on the mileage, if you ran the 4.10 you would still be able to get decent mileage by running in 6th gear (which most of us almost never use with 3.07's). I would view the 6th gear as a somewhere closer to a 4th with 4.10's. I call it out tree-hugger gear, for those environmentally sensitive Viper owners...

If it's any interest to you, Tony Darwin (aka Sir Hiss) drives his drag Viper everyday to work and to most of his track events in and around Miami (and he is running a 550+ cubic inch Donavan hemi). If mileage and the number of fill-ups bothers you, then get an oversized fuel cell and replace the stock gas tank. 3.55's are the gear ratio of choice by most Viper owners who drag and road race.

I can tell you that when I am on a road racing track, my mileage is terrible. Getting to the tracks is easy if I'm not on the car hard. I drive about 2 to 3 hours to get to the local tracks in SoCal (unless I'm in a rush).


Brad

I'm going to try and not be an asshole about this so here goes.

Look gas mileage isn't a concern to me at all. What was my point? All I was just saying for the hell of it that a Viper probably would get horrible gas mileage with a low gear ratio like that. I didn't realize that it would also make a big pain in the ass trying to drive it. Never knew Vipers were that much different from any GM or Ford powerhouse vehicle.

The other thing that you would find (if you did your homework) is that the biggest problem with racing a Viper on a 1/4 mile strip is traction
If I did my homework geez sorry I love the Viper and all but I've never found out every little thing about it. I'm not really surprised though that it has traction problems. I think I can see why.

See I never knew that I figured this car could easily be set up for drag racing. Didn't know about the halfshafts thing either. Ok so what exactly is the point of this car then? Is it to compete on road coarses? I know it ain't the worst handling car in the world but I do know the Corvette can out maneuver this car.

btw Penzoil, I mentioned I've never seen that Maserati before in America even though that website said they sold them here. That pic of the red car you showed, I think someone in my neighborhood has one of those. It looks pretty similar to that except its white. I've never really taken a good look to see if it said Maserati anywhere though. Do they have a company symbol I could look for?

Originally posted by DeViL
If I did my homework geez sorry I love the Viper and all but I've never found out every little thing about it. I'm not really surprised though that it has traction problems. I think I can see why.

See I never knew that I figured this car could easily be set up for drag racing. Didn't know about the halfshafts thing either. Ok so what exactly is the point of this car then? Is it to compete on road coarses? I know it ain't the worst handling car in the world but I do know the Corvette can out maneuver this car.

Devil:

Sorry for my attitude, but I encunter many people who read too many magazines about Vipers...

To give you an idea of what i mean about driving difficulties, read the latest Car & Driver. You'll see 1/4 mile times and performance numbers on the tuner Vipers that are (at best) can be called mediocre.
- TNT Serpent 550 HP, 12.6 seconds
- Apex Lethal Viper 750 HP, 11.8 seconds
- Hennessey Twin Turbo 800 HP, 12.4 seconds

I see one common problem in these numbers, and that is TRACTION. The reason for this is because the folks that drove the tuner shootout, were not very familiar with the Viper's type of performance. I have seen people who drive bone stock Snakes put in consistantly better numbers that C&D did on these 3 tuner Vipers.

If you are really motivated to learn about Vipers and the stuff that I mentined, hang around ths site;;;Viper Club of America (http://www.viperclub.org) . My advice would be to start by cruising the archives under subjects like "halfshafts", "gears", "drag racing" and so on...

You will find all kinds of information from the basic stuff to driving and launch techniques. Don't forget to go into the archives of the message board too.

I'll post some more info that relates to your questions.

Take care,

Brad