is it possible to blow 800w speakers with a 260w amp?

I'm low on money and my 6x9's decide to crumble from dry rot (after 10 years I fugure that's pretty good speaker life :-), so what do I do... buy a cheap pair from Ebay... I think this was my first mistake. I never heard of Mitzu speakers before, but for $27 I figured what the hell.

The speakers (Mitzu MIT-69302) were supposed to be 800w but they crapped out on the first day with my 260w amp. Cheap speakers or could I have done something wrong? (like turn the gain up too high) My old speakers were cheap too, and they were only 200w, but they handled the amp just fine.

any help would be appreciated.

Thanks yall


My system:

Head unit: Pioneer DEH-P6500 --pushing factory door speakers and kenwood 6" 2 ways in the rear.

amp and subs: MTX Terminator2 driving two 10" MTX Thunder 3000's (sealed box)

6x9's and amp: Optimus XL-260 amp, currently no 6x9's :-(

well that amp puts out 45x4, so each speaker would get 45 watts. It would be impossible to blow an 800 watt speaker with 45 watts, but those aren't 800 watt speakers. They're probably 20 watt speakers with a retarded 800 watt peak rating that means absolutely jack. And yes, you can blow 20 watt speakers with 45 watts.

If you want to get something decent please don't shop at radio shack or ebay.....give us a budget and we can find you something actually worth getting.

And why do you have so many speakers? Factory door speakers, aftermarket 6.5's in the rear, and 6x9's on top of that...the door speakers are your most important ones, you should really be focusing on those.

lol, 20w with a 800w peak rating... that's quite an advertising gimmik. Thanks for the info.

Btw, my 6x9 amp is bridged at 130x2 (not 45x4)

concerning budget... as cheap as possible. I'm a broke college student. it's a cheap amp, so I don't need great 6x9s. Under $75 would be nice. Under $50 would be better.

well that's what you get with the no name brands, a bunch of advertising gimmicks. I recently saw an auction for a pair of 800 watt TWEETERS for $3. Even tweets costing in the hundreds of dollars each can only handle 100-150rms or so. God I hate ebay brands

for decent 6x9s check out this thread:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=356514

you can blow them with that amp because you have well under powered them trust me I've seen it happen several times. I had a guy who tried to push a dcldragr with an 800 watt amp and fried the sub because they take 15000 watts rms and yes that's 15000 not 1500 watts

you can blow them with that amp because you have well under powered them trust me I've seen it happen several times. I had a guy who tried to push a dcldragr with an 800 watt amp and fried the sub because they take 15000 watts rms and yes that's 15000 not 1500 watts


LOL
15000rms....that cracks me up

might want to do a little reading before you make yourself look like a dumbass
http://www.bostwick.com/spec/subwoofers.asp?gID=%7B1A16A545%2D3A57%2D410E%2D96D A%2DEDDB0923288A%7D&P=DCL+Drag+R+12

Um.........the highest ive ever seen in a sub for rms is 5000@2ohm(dvc). Think about the amp you'll need before to power a 15,000rms sub. It would have to be 3VC and have to have a 3 5000rms amps to power it. which is plain retarded, an i know wont exist. The 5000rms i sub i saw sells for 2k and and 4k for the 2 amps to power it. Plus all the wiring and all the stuff to power it all. I dont think nobodies going to spend 15k on 1 sub, sorry.

bostwickdcl24... you got
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v142/UndercoverPunker/PWNTBRD.jpg

And Shawn...
I'd like you to show me a tri-voice coil sub. Please?

that bostwick website hasn't been updated since 2000 and I know more about those subs and amps than you will ever know because I worked for the owner of bostwick and he has one 15 with 16,000 watts and yes it is the drag are. If you want to contact him you can also find that on bostwick.com under contacts and then you will know the truth about those subs. oyeah his name is ben just so you know who your looking for. you dumb ass.

oh yeah undercover punk there is such thing as a tri voice coil sub. it's in home audio, but its a tri voice coil sub.

I could put 16,000rms on a tweeter if I wanted, the amount of power your amp is capable of has nothing to do with how much power the sub can actually handle. And no, you cannot blow a sub by underpowering it, it is 100% impossible and if you think it is possible, you have no idea what you're talking about.

That website has a copyright from 2002 on the bottom, so I have a hard time believing it hasn't been updated since 2000 (who would put a copyright 2 years in the future on the bottom of their page?). Frankly I don't care if you'll know more about that company than I'll ever know, because I don't care to know anything about that company. They look like all the other shitty sounding spl subs out there, only MUCH more expensive. I mean jesus, my midbass speakers have a lower resonant frequency than those subs.

it is possible to blow (well freeze up the voice coil) if you under power it. and I know what your talking about with the amount of power a sub can handle but I will say bostwick is not a shitty brand because, I hit 164db with two 15's and I've got a friend who hit 167 with the same 15's just a ported box.

No it's not possible to freeze up the voice coil if you underpower it. That's happens when the glue holding the coil melts and the coil comes unraveled. The only way for the glue to melt is from too much heat, the only way to get too much heat is to exceed the thermal capacity of the coil, the only way to do that is with too much power. If you're feeding the sub a 100% clipped signal it does have less cooling than a clean sine wave of equal power, so technically you could blow the sub with slightly less than its rated power if that power is a square wave, but that's like saying you could blow a 1000rms sub with 100rms if you wire the coils out of phase and then feed it a solid sine wave for a few minutes...sure it could happen, but only because there's zero cooling because the cone isn't moving. And in the end you're still overpowering it anyway, you've just managed to lower the thermal capacity of the sub by using it improperly.

And I'm sorry but SPL scores don't impress me. If it sounds like ass then it's not fun to listen to, and if you can't listen to it and enjoy it then what's the point? I didn't say it was a shitty brand, I said it looks like they make shitty sounding subs, which IMO are pointless, though not everyone feels that way.

No it's not possible to freeze up the voice coil if you underpower it. That's happens when the glue holding the coil melts and the coil comes unraveled. The only way for the glue to melt is from too much heat, the only way to get too much heat is to exceed the thermal capacity of the coil, the only way to do that is with too much power. If you're feeding the sub a 100% clipped signal it does have less cooling than a clean sine wave of equal power, so technically you could blow the sub with slightly less than its rated power if that power is a square wave, but that's like saying you could blow a 1000rms sub with 100rms if you wire the coils out of phase and then feed it a solid sine wave for a few minutes...sure it could happen, but only because there's zero cooling because the cone isn't moving. And in the end you're still overpowering it anyway, you've just managed to lower the thermal capacity of the sub by using it improperly.

And I'm sorry but SPL scores don't impress me. If it sounds like ass then it's not fun to listen to, and if you can't listen to it and enjoy it then what's the point? I didn't say it was a shitty brand, I said it looks like they make shitty sounding subs, which IMO are pointless, though not everyone feels that way.

just in addition, almost any amp with a square sine wav could force the vc off its pole or break the coil from its housing.

negative, i can feed my speakers a perfectly square wave with a signal generator (no not free sigjenny off of the internet, i forget the name but it is the only audio program i have payed for).

and i is impossible to blow a speaker that has coils that cane truely handle 15000w with an amp that is purring out a true 800w. it is a physical imposibility. that is like trying to blow a 1000w woofer with a 9v battery.
when i get bored i blow spekers for fun, but one day i wanted to play with DC.... a $15 speaker from walmart rated to 300w but could probably handle a true 40w RMS would suffice. i have a power supply capeable of 14a@24v 30a@12v and 60a@6v. i set it on the 6v setting running it through a 4ohm coil. it had a resistance of 3.6ohms
lets to the math shall we?
6v/3.6r = 1.666a (continuous)
1.666a*6v = 10w

that speaker at there slamed agianst its suspension limits for 45min. coil didnt die.

so i doubled the voltage...
12/3.6= 3.333
3.333*12 = 40w

agian, stayed slamed agianst its suspension limits for quite a while, i felt the magnet, it was pretty hot, but the damn thing still played....

so i doubled voltage agian...

24/3.6 = 6.666
6.666*24 = 160w

slam, current jump, pop, flame, smoke. that quick.
good thing these come in pairs....
the next one saw the wall....4ohm 60Hz...3600w...tore the surround. but that is beside the point.
It is a physical imposobility to blow a speaker with an amp rated to 6% of its power capasity....though i doubt there is a woofer in the world that can handle a true 15,000w RMS.....

negative, i can feed my speakers a perfectly square wave with a signal generator (no not free sigjenny off of the internet, i forget the name but it is the only audio program i have payed for).

and i is impossible to blow a speaker that has coils that cane truely handle 15000w with an amp that is purring out a true 800w. it is a physical imposibility. that is like trying to blow a 1000w woofer with a 9v battery.
when i get bored i blow spekers for fun, but one day i wanted to play with DC.... a $15 speaker from walmart rated to 300w but could probably handle a true 40w RMS would suffice. i have a power supply capeable of 14a@24v 30a@12v and 60a@6v. i set it on the 6v setting running it through a 4ohm coil. it had a resistance of 3.6ohms
lets to the math shall we?
6v/3.6r = 1.666a (continuous)
1.666a*6v = 10w

that speaker at there slamed agianst its suspension limits for 45min. coil didnt die.

so i doubled the voltage...
12/3.6= 3.333
3.333*12 = 40w

agian, stayed slamed agianst its suspension limits for quite a while, i felt the magnet, it was pretty hot, but the damn thing still played....

so i doubled voltage agian...

24/3.6 = 6.666
6.666*24 = 160w

slam, current jump, pop, flame, smoke. that quick.
good thing these come in pairs....
the next one saw the wall....4ohm 60Hz...3600w...tore the surround. but that is beside the point.
It is a physical imposobility to blow a speaker with an amp rated to 6% of its power capasity....though i doubt there is a woofer in the world that can handle a true 15,000w RMS.....

the rated power refers to the limits of the vc melting. I dont know if you were directing your comments to me but it is possible for pure clipping signal from cheap 200w amp to pop a 400w vc its been done...

yeah, I remember someone's story about how mismatched rms ratings are bad for subs. Something about 2 identical subs, say 250 watts. He hooked up a cheap 50 watt amp to one, and a 1200 watt amp to the other. The one connected to the 1200 watt amp played great, and the one connected to the cheapo fried.

the amp maybe, not the woofer. unless it was faulty tobegin with. now if you are talking about sending 1200w to one woofer and 50w tothe other and they share the same chamber, it is possible, but you arent going to send the coild out of gap and have it come back into gap off center, clip the pole, and brake the coil from the suspension/cone. that is what the spider is there to controll.

the amp maybe, not the woofer. unless it was faulty tobegin with. now if you are talking about sending 1200w to one woofer and 50w tothe other and they share the same chamber, it is possible, but you arent going to send the coild out of gap and have it come back into gap off center, clip the pole, and brake the coil from the suspension/cone. that is what the spider is there to controll.

once an amp starts clipping rated output is irrelevent - thats why its clipping - its exceeding its rated output already. The only control is how fast the mosfets melt and how much current runs through them before they do. I do agree i dont think a 50 watt amp would be able to channel enough raw current through the fets before they crispied, but it could happen.

that isnt what i am saying, im saying that you can send coils out of gap all day long, you arent going to break the coil off. you can make it look like a mushroom by slaming it into the back plate a few times but you arent going to break it off from throwing it out of gap, clipped signal or not.

there is a limiting factor to an amp with a clipped signal, not only the fact that the amp can only make the voltage go so high (which makes it clip in the first place) and that maximum voltage can only flow so much current resulting in so much wattage with a given load, but also the fuse...800w amp with 50% efficency should have a 120a-140a worth of fuses. most fuses wont blow untill you send a short burst of nearly twice their rated current or go very ver over their rated current for any viable ammount of time. if a coil can handle 15,000w that 800w amp would be having to suck 2500a from the electrical system, obviously not only is the fuse limiting but also the vehicles electrical system.

once an amp starts clipping rated output is irrelevent - thats why its clipping - its exceeding its rated output already. The only control is how fast the mosfets melt and how much current runs through them before they do. I do agree i dont think a 50 watt amp would be able to channel enough raw current through the fets before they crispied, but it could happen.

Rated output is very relevent, the reason that it's clipping is because it's trying to swing the output voltage beyond that of the rails, so it hits the rail voltage and then stops. The voltage cannot pass the rails, no matter what happens, those are like cement walls. When an amp is clipping completely it's simply bouncing between the + and - rail voltages and it looks like a square wave. The rms power of this wave is exactly double that of the highest power sine wave the amp is capable of generating, which means that a 50rms amp can do no more than 100rms if it's clipping (normally less due to power supply inefficiency). The very definition of clipping and rms means that it can't be any more powerful than this.

It also means that on a given amp, the cone will be moving no farther with a completely clipped wave than with a full power sine wave. The peak voltage is the same, so the cone excursion is the same. You will get some very very slight overshoot due to the higher momentum of the cone, but unless you're within 1-2mm of the mechanical limits of the sub with the sine wave, moving to a square wave won't make it move far enough to bottom out or do any other kind of damage, other than the extra heat being burned up in the coil.