Pure sports cars vs. ricers

I am one of those people who appreciate real sports cars. BMW's, Porsche's, Ferrari's, McLaren, etc... I do not like the Honda's and Acura's and other various ricers I have all over in my city. The reason for this is because BMW's are all around awesome cars. Power, handling, and looks are just some of the qualities of a good sports car. Anybody can make a Honda Civic go fast, in a straight line. A BMW would tear up any Honda on a course. Now, I don't know if this is possible, but I want to hear why you prefer real sports cars, or modified Honda's and why. Let's try and keep this nice, guys.

Ricers: Affordable, some of them are legitimate (i.e. integras), but the ZX2 with a GTR wing at my apartment is not! Most of the people driving these things don't understand what makes a good car, so they do stupid things like getting dual exhaust on their 92 civic. Idiots.

"True Sports Cars": Not so attainable, but does anything have to be said as far as their greatness?

ricers may be affordable, but stock they suck big time. if you want a well performing car you'd have to spend a lot of money and it still sucks. anything can go fast in a straight line, but not handle well. thats why i love BMW's. i really hate those huge mufflers. sound fast, but thats it. http://www.bmw-m.net/Humor/big_exhaust.htm i wish i could shoot that guy.

I getting sick of that whole "my economy car is 'fast' " trend also. Back pressure my ass; 3/4ths of the Civics with those 98" pipes are n/a! No turbos or supers! lol :rolleyes: I can understand a 4-5" pipe on a Supra, Skyline GT-R, or RX-7. They have turbos on them. But to tell you the truth I'm still waiting for the aftermarket to give use 2 pipes instead of one big one that looks lame. :)

As for real sports cars, what can I say, they truly diserve to be the popular trend. HSV GTS-R, Ferrari 550 Maranello, Nissan Skyline GT-R, BMW M3/M5, Corvette ZO6. These are some examples of GT cars that, although are heavier then the tipical ricer, have enough actuall power that would embarass a ricified Civic.

But torque is more important. Those cars above have 270- to well over 300 lb.-ft. the Civic, Integra, and Celica (current favorites for ricers) have UNDER 200 lb.-ft. :rolleyes:

But in conclusion, I think it's just a trend and hobby for those that can't afford high priced sports/GT cars. :)

Pure sports cars all the way. I got ricers round here, and I can beat them with my 89 Lincoln Towncar, if you ask me, thats pathetic. But, i dont think I have the average Towncar engine. I know i cant come close to a pure sports car, thats why ill own one one day.

i want to hear from a ricer's point of view. see what they can enlighten us with.

I am not a "Ricer".
However, you have to respect Hondas and Acuras because they acheive a high value for performace dollar. BMW used to be the leader in specific output engines (E30 M3), but now Honda is. Yes most hondas/acuras are econo cars, but a civic si can outperfrom a new 325i at less cost. So Honda builds a much more reliable car that performs very very well for a front wheel drive car at much less cost. So why are many European car enthusiats pissed at these cars when they see them? Frankly I think it is because they cant stomach that they spent more money for a car that is not as relaible and has very good performance (albeit for a front wheel drive car). The Honda S2000 is a wonderful car, at much much less that a BMW M roadster, Z3, Mercedes SLK, and a Porsche Boxtser. On a track, the S2000 will do extremely well against these much more expensive european cars and be more reliable!
I personally do think that people are dumb to put a big wing on their sport compact, but let's not chastise them and judge them too much. They are proud of their car (perhaps an ugly car). I drive an E30 M3. Do I judge the car with the big fat wing and stickers? I used to. But then I went to an import car show, and I was very impressed with the amount of pride they have for their cars. They were more proud of their cars AND LESS arrogant than many bmw owners that i know. Since then, I try not to judge them by my standards. Anyone who is into cars is ok in my mind now, whether its my friend with an 800+ hp supra, or my brother with tinted windows and a decently loud stereo, or my dad who beats the piss out of his 911s that he and I restored. Whatever floats their boat is fine with me, as long as they dont endager other peoples lives.

qab5b that just brought a tear to my eye.... very good answer

this hits for you :bonghitte heheheh, i juss found that



i have a group of letters for all you "rice bashers"..... MKIVTT
ah yes, a heavily modified --> Toyota <-- Supra Twin Turbo, can beat just about anything on the road

I think we need to look more at what a young 15-20 year old can afford.
In my country there is almost no way in hell someone of this age can get a Pure sports car like the ones you say.
Most of us would like to own a flash sports car etc but you have to start somewhere.
I own a Nissan Primera with a body kit/wheels etc but i dont class my self as "rice" just because i haven't got a "sports car".
Sure...nothing look more stupid then huge wings, big fat 6" exhaust tips on a 2L etc, but i guess it's there way of expressing themself in there own way.

I like any car and dont care what it is.....Rice/V8/Sports Car/Nissan/Chev/Toyota etc....that what makes this sport so different to others.......we dont have to follow any trends if you dont want to.

How heavliy modded are we talking on this supra? A mildly modded Viper might be able to give it a run for its money if its done right.

I kinda new the old American Domestic vs. Import debate would have to raise its ugly head some where, but I also hoped that members of this board would be above it.

If you want to bash Hondas, just remember that the Integra Type-R has more specific power than even a new BMW M3, and Honda made the 100bhp per Litre in an NA production car milestone about 6 months before BMW did. Toyota then followed suit about 12 months later. And if you've been in a WRX or EVO lancer, or even just seen one being driven fast there’s no way you cant call them great sports cars.
And if you want to talk rice, how about a BMW compact 316i with a full M3 body kit, suspension package and wheels. That’s a car with a 10 sec plus time for 0-60 being made to look fast, when its intended purpose is nothing more than getting the soccer mum to the shops and back, just like a base model Civic.

Bashing a particular carmaker because of the culture it was created under is nothing short of Racism. European sports cars, like Ferraris and Lambo's are created for a special market, with a specific goal in mind, Japanese sports car, which can be just as rewarding to drive, are aimed at a different market, and with a different goal. The same is true for American sports cars.
You cant say one is better than the other, you can compare them and say one is different from the other, that they all achieve different goals in the different ways, but you cant say that a Ferrari is better than an NSX just because one is made in Europe with European attitudes to cars, and the other is made in Japan with Japanese attitudes.
The same is true when comparing a BMW with a Honda. Both have their base models, and both have their true sport models, and both have people who like to buy the base models because its all they can afford and then make them look like their faster than they really are.

So stop the bashing. A sports car can be many things, from an old MG TF to Ferrari F40 to Honda Civic SiR to a Dodge Viper, their all totally different cars, offering totally different driving experiences, and designed by people with totally different attitudes, yet to claim that any of them isn’t a true sports car makes you nothing short of a bigoted raciest.

i totally agree :)

Well put Moppie...10 out of 10 :D

I just want to add one more thing. I totally despise the term "Ricer" when it is used incorrectly. The term "Rice" for me and a vast majority of people is used when a person decides to make their car "LOOK" fast and it's not. Putting all the cosmetic mods and then nothing to back it up. This includes stickers too. Like putting AEM and then open the hood and no intake.

As for the comparisons. You're comparing different niches and that would not be practical. If you're going to compare an M3 to lets say a Toyota Celica, that's just plain retarded. But it's funny how when the M3 get's compared to let's say a corvette, and they are crying that it's not fair. So let's be reasonable and objectionable when making fair car comparisons.

Another argument nobody will ever win, just like which is better Imports or Domestics?, The truth is a Civic with about $1,500 worth of suspension mods like Coil overs, Shocks, Sway bars and strut tower bars will out perform any BMW at any track, I have seen this my self at several tracks, Hell if you watch SpeedVision i am sure you have seen the Comptech Integras beating down BMWS all day long for several years, With nothing but Exhaust, Headers and modified Airbox and suspension. Don't get me wrong, i am huge fan of BMW Motorsports, In fact i have always been a huge fan of the 850CSi, but BMW failed to bring that car to SuperCar Status, just simply poor Marketing. In any case to sit here and say Hondas and Acuras are ricers because a few kids add huge wings and tips is simply ignorant, and makes you as dumb as the kids with the stickers all over their cars, I personally have seen this done to alot of cars not just Hondas and Acuras. The fact is people drive what their budget can provide, And to laugh at a person because they don't have a "BMW" is very self centered. Personally i will race any "BMW" in my FD3S TT and will run circles around it, both in a straight line or in any road course or street. Stop making fun of others who are not aas fortunate as you. Is that even your BMW? or your moms? If a man is happy with a 1,000 stickers on his car let it be.. Why the hell are you so worried about it?? I got two stickers on my car, they say www.automotiveforums.com :bandit:

i totally agree with you moppie. when i say "ricer" i mean the people who do only do cosmetic mods and put stickers all over their car with nothing to back it up. i dont have anything against those companies...honda, acura, etc..., i have something against the stupid people who do stupid things to their cars like having a oettinger sticker on a honda civic. oettinger only makes parts for german cars, and i have seen that happen. or people who put yokohama and nitto stickers on their cars. just plain stupid. i think the NSX's, WRX's, WRX Sti's, Evo Lancer's, and S2000's are great cars. but i would prefer to have a BMW because of that companies prestige or racing heritage or whatever you want to say. just for the record though i have seen bmw's and integra type r's race all day, and the bmw just happened to win that race. gang$tarr, im sure that supra TT could beat anything on the road... in a straight line. another thing i dont like is the morons who risk their lives and innocent bystanders lives street racing. if you have a problem with people who dont like street racing, reply.

Originally posted by hermunn123
another thing i dont like is the morons who risk their lives and innocent bystanders lives street racing. if you have a problem with people who dont like street racing, reply.

Reply, but please reply on the thread that deals with street racing. This one is about sports cars and ricers and I wouldn't want this thread to stray from it's topic.:D

Moppie, great post!

As to Jose's comments about the Comptech Integras vs BMW's in racing, that is not relevant to this discussion. The cars in the World Challenge are NO WHERE NEAR close to stock, even though that is the image that they want to protray. First off, in a racing series like World Challenge, in order to make various cars with various displacement engines, with various number of cylinders, with various suspension setups equal, the main equalizer is weight. Because the BMW's run 6-cylinder 2.8 or 2.5 liter engines, they must run at a higher weight than the Integras, which have 1.8 liter 4 cylinders. I have ridden in some race cars, from club type race cars, to factory race 911 cup cars. They are all very different from the stock street cars with respect to suspension geometry (some subtle some drastic), and engines. Engines in race cars are built to the tightest tolerances (usually, unless looser tolerances generate more power). Plus "interpretations" of the rules vary greatly.
As to the events at track driving schools, you ARE correct, a honda, acura,toyota, etc.. can hold its own against many more expensive "true"-sports cars. However, driver ability comes into the equation BIG TIME. I've passed new 911s and boxsters at the track in my e30 m3, with much less power and with street tires, only because I could drive slightly better than they could.
When it comes down to it, it all is personal preference and driving style. Rear-wheel drive cars suit my driving style: I can't drive a front-wheel drive car on the track for crap. I prefer cars which can be more easily rotated with some throttle application, rather than cars that benefit more from brake-induced rotation. I just love how the car tighten's its line! I also like a lot o feedback from the steering wheel. Other people like the way that front-wheel drive cars handle and feel. When you start to compare experiences at the track (road courses in my mind), there are so many variables that it makes the comparison invalid.
A great driver in a slow car will almost ALWAYS beat a bad driver in a fast car. A good driver in a 120 hp civic will be faster than me at the track, even though I have a 70 hp advantage as well as a suspension advantage. When it comes done to it, there is no real reliable way to compare two cars (regardless of make, drivetrain, or country of origin) in a completly objective manner, and this is only made worse whe comparing race cars to street car versions.

As to the bigotry comments, I agree. I don't like to associate with 90% of bmw or porsche owners, because I can't stand their Holier Than Thou adittude. Apparently their car is a wishful extenstion of their ego or anatomy. I got interested in cars because they are fun to drive and work on. I also met a lot of nice and interesting people along the way, which more than makes up for all of the assholes that I have met along the way to.

i am amazed at the stuff in here...
why wouldnt a honda, which i have, outhandle any other car? i have 1k in the suspension, and the same in rims and tires, and i take corners faster than any other "sports car" that runs with me... maybe im crazy tho... that is most likely the reason...

the only thing that really got me was the guy who said he respects sports cars, and included mclaren... um, supercar...

i dont care, and hey, if you dont like it, dont look, dont buy, but dont diss it b/c you dont want to spend less on a car and put cash into it... i like that my car looks better than a stock prelude, and it can outhandle lotsa stock bmws.

i dont know what to say, but i love bmws, but i would never leave anything that i have stock. i guess that is the arguement. do you like a stock car that is good, or the car that is modded and can beat the other stock car( being a car that shouldnt be able to on an ordinary day)

Originally posted by Moppie
And if you want to talk rice, how about a BMW compact 316i with a full M3 body kit, suspension package and wheels. That’s a car with a 10 sec plus time for 0-60 being made to look fast, when its intended purpose is nothing more than getting the soccer mum to the shops and back, just like a base model Civic.

It's funny this sort of thing got mentioned....you add the M3 engine and this is a One Lap competitor from a year or two ago!

Dear Hurmann,
First I love BMWs, I would almost kill for an M3, however I also love Hondas, and Toyotas, and Ferrari's, and Subarus, and Rovers, and...... you get the picture, I love all cars.
Second, I think you missed some of the main points in my post, so I'll be a nice guy and repeat some of them, with some extra material to reinforce my position.

BMW is a company with great prestige and a passion for building great cars, However and you seem totaly ignorant of this fact Honda who you so carefull bashed has been involved in Formula 1 for longer than an other manufactor except of course Ferrari.

There are just as many "ricer" BMW owners out there as "ricer" Honda owners, in fact BMW surports the hobby far more than Honda does, by offering dealer fitted body kits, and M sport badges and stickers for the lesser models, like the 3 series compact.

Your quite welcome to Like BMW's more, Please do, but it's not something you have to rationalise, and it dos'nt mean all other makes are for some reason worse, I happen to prefer driving an old Triumph over any other car, its certainly not a rational desision, and Im well aware that there are many better cars out there, but I dont spend my time bashing them.

So please stop bashing other makes, It dosn't achive anything, and is totaly unneccasry, we have a Forum here for comparing diffrent cars, if you want to compare the merits of your BMW against a Honda then do it there, and as DVS said make your beliefs about street racing known in the correct forum.

Try being a little open minded about things, just because a certain segment of the population like to put stickers on a certain make of car dosnt make that car, bad to drive or own.
Try going to a 2nd hand car yard and test driving some diffrent makes, and models, you may be surprised, and hopefull enlightened.

(and for the record i dont like rice as much as the next car enuthesist, but its a free world (i like to think it is) and if ppl think its cool, well then we should respect that.)

ok i am sorry to anyone who have had their feelings hurt. ive seen a couple bmw owners who have M tags on their cars, but we all know that the majority of the people who do this is on honda's, toyota's, etc... at least where i live it is. i dont care at all if someone has stickers all over their car, i just dont like when people try to make their car something its not. like putting a Type R sticker on a honda civic DX. or putting a VTEC sticker on a DX. or when someone puts an M3 tag, sticker, whatever on their 318. i just dont like stupidity. i cant stand being around stupid people, not people who cant help it like mentally retarded people, but like people who dont care about their grades in school. when i said i dont like street racing i was just continuing on things i dislike. sorry. but someone has talked about racing.. why not get all mad at him too?? i dont bash people who dont have bmw's, i dont have a bmw. you guys probably think i shouldnt be "bashing" people who aren't fortunate to have one, but im not bashing them. i am going to save up my money and hopefully get an E30. they're not that expensive... $2000-$5000 max. anyone can get a job and save up that much... my parents aren't going to help me buy a car and i'll still probably be able to get an E30, if i can find one i like. if this isnt relevant to the topic please reply and yell at me.

Originally posted by hermunn123
ok i am sorry to anyone who have had their feelings hurt. ive seen a couple bmw owners who have M tags on their cars, but we all know that the majority of the people who do this is on honda's, toyota's, etc... at least where i live it is. i dont care at all if someone has stickers all over their car, i just dont like when people try to make their car something its not. like putting a Type R sticker on a honda civic DX. or putting a VTEC sticker on a DX. or when someone puts an M3 tag, sticker, whatever on their 318. i just dont like stupidity. i cant stand being around stupid people, not people who cant help it like mentally retarded people, but like people who dont care about their grades in school. when i said i dont like street racing i was just continuing on things i dislike. sorry. but someone has talked about racing.. why not get all mad at him too?? i dont bash people who dont have bmw's, i dont have a bmw. you guys probably think i shouldnt be "bashing" people who aren't fortunate to have one, but im not bashing them. i am going to save up my money and hopefully get an E30. they're not that expensive... $2000-$5000 max. anyone can get a job and save up that much... my parents aren't going to help me buy a car and i'll still probably be able to get an E30, if i can find one i like. if this isnt relevant to the topic please reply and yell at me.


Now this is more acceptable. Debating. Now you understand where everyone is coming from. I agree with you about the false representation of cars. That is what this topic is about. Now that you have clarified yourself more, understand one more thing. Depending on where you come from, you have different experiences than others. So to outright say that this make is not this or that would really be hanging yourself out to dry. If you've seen the movie "TFaTF", you see what putting a little cash in your car can do. Yeah, everyone would love a sports car that comes with that power, but realistically, not everyone is as fortunate. So be sensitive to the majority as they are in the same shoes as you. I myself have an accord, which is only mildly modded. But I've stopped modding it to look into getting a brand new GTI VR6 or the new accord coupe that is coming out next which is rumored to come with a V6/stick. Either way, you love a car or you don't. I believe everyone in here loves all cars or a specific car, just gotta respect that.

As for ricey enthusiasts, Thou shall feeleth the smacketh downeth!!!:devil: :D :finger:

Ricers confuse me....
I mean, there are those out there who truly do have an M3 engine in their 318ti, and there are people who have a turbo'd GS-R engine in their civic, but for the most part.....the rice car represents a paradox.

I mean, the car enthusiasts are the people who know what VTEC is. So, putting a VTEC badge on a DX is completely stupid! The only people who know what VTEC is are the people who know you're a moron! The people who don't care are the only people who you "impress".

There are at least two mustangs in my town with Saleen written along the side. One actually has the Saleen body kit. Either case, both are V6's! In fact, one is a white convertible...it's got cloth interior, stock exhaust, and sounds stock. So, why does this moron do this? Everyone who knows what a Saleen is knows hes a dipshit.

Does my paradox make sense to anyone else?

Basically!

I agree with enzo's last post. I dont mind if you do the badges or stickers if u actually have that. The worst "ricer" i ahve aroudn me is acctually a Bretta. It says Super Bretta all over it has pitch balck windows and a good paint, and sounds pretty nice. But after the second time i saw this guy, i relized it sounded nice because he didnt have any kind of exhaust anywhere on his car. I gave him the hint that i wanted to see what his car can do, and my moms V6 tempo could probaly beat this guy. I feel if you're gonna do all that, get some good power and torque under the hood as well as a flashy body and deep exhaust.

Hermunn, please don’t take this too personally, but I’m just going to tear your argument up a little more. (mostly what you said about stupid ppl.

Originally posted by hermunn123
ok i am sorry to anyone who have had their feelings hurt. ive seen a couple bmw owners who have M tags on their cars, but we all know that the majority of the people who do this is on honda's, toyota's, etc... at least where i live it is. i dont care at all if someone has stickers all over their car, i just dont like when people try to make their car something its not. like putting a Type R sticker on a honda civic DX. or putting a VTEC sticker on a DX. or when someone puts an M3 tag, sticker, whatever on their 318. i just dont like stupidity. i cant stand being around stupid people,

I totally agree, I really don’t understand the whole ricer thing myself, and Ill get to that in a sec, as for being around Stupid ppl, well its the reason I left my last Job, and even at Uni it proves a constant source of frustration. I hate ppl that are unable to think for themselves


not people who cant help it like mentally retarded people, but like people who dont care about their grades in school.
I never cared about my grades in school, and I care even less about my grades at University, by your definition I am therefore Stupid. :flipa: :silly2:
You need to be able to see things from perspectives other than your own, otherwise you are nothing more than a rac........yadda yadda, you know the rest.
(go check out the phillosophizing forum in Off topic, and read some of the posts, maybe even start one about "subjective views on the world".)


when i said i dont like street racing i was just continuing on things i dislike. sorry. but someone has talked about racing.. why not get all mad at him too?? i dont bash people who dont have bmw's, i dont have a bmw. you guys probably think i shouldnt be "bashing" people who aren't fortunate to have one, but im not bashing them.

Im pretty sure you were doing some bashing there.


i am going to save up my money and hopefully get an E30. they're not that expensive... $2000-$5000 max. anyone can get a job and save up that much... my parents aren't going to help me buy a car and i'll still probably be able to get an E30, if i can find one i like. if this isnt relevant to the topic please reply and yell at me.

Not strictly relevant, but good to know that you are capable of thinking on your own when you want to. You get a great satisfaction knowing that the car you own you paid for with your own hard earned money. Good on ya, stick with it, and you won't be disappointed.


And now my ricer RANT.
Enzo I can see the paradox you mentioned. And makes little sense to me as well. At Uni there are many riced up cars, the worst being a Yellow Integra with full body kit, Large Mags, Stickers, and Drum brakes indicating its nothing more than 1600, and so rather slow.
I can only see one way of trying to figure out whats going on.
Different people see different things in a car. A performance Enthusiast will see it as a means to get pleasure from driving fast, and making the car perform at its absolute best, they will be little concerned with cosmetic add ons like body kits, and stereos.
A Style enthusiast however will be concerned not with how the car performs, but with how it looks, they want the flashy expensive paint jobs and body kits. They want to add decals to make give the car their own stylistic touch.
These of course represent the absolute extremes, and most people fit somewhere in the middle.
So where does the Ricer fit, well I would have to label them as Style enthusiasts, however their style enthusiasts with out any sense of education in what constitutes style, and perhaps a touch of what I would like to call Stylistic Schizophrenia.
So instead of getting angry with ricers, prehaps we should instead feel pity for thier poor lost misguided attempts at style, and at being individuals or prehaps for trying to be part of the crowd. The are sick, and so require our help. So please if you see a riced out vechile, leave them a little note, inform them of how silly they actualy look.
These people need out help, not out abuse.

And if they dont want our help, then we condem them to the firey pits of automotive hell! :devil: :devil: , and make them drive ladas till the end of Time!. :devil: :devil:

Originally posted by hermunn123
...i cant stand being around stupid people...

Well, have fun when you get to the moon...

Anyone who likes cars is ok with me. Come on, why is someone better because they have an M3, M5, Ferrari, Type-R, etc... If someone wants to put an M badge on their car. Fine with me.
I own the original M3, the E30 which owes its existence to homologation standards of the FIA. Do I care if someone has an M badge on their car? Kinda, but in the end I realize, they just want their car to be better than it is. Fine with me (as long as they dont hold me up at the track). Modifying a car to be better than it was from the factory is an admirable past time. If you think that someone is better because they have a nicer car than you, well thats YOUR personal problem.
Also, if you think that your honda with an expensive suspension can outhandle a stock car: well duh! Of course it should!
Like I said before, you CAN NOT COMPARE TWO CARS OBJECTIVELY! Its all personal preference AND DRIVER ABILITY. If you think that you can "buy" speed by putting stuff on your car you are only sorta right. You BUY much more speed by educating yourself on how to drive said car. Go to a club track event and see! There will always be at least one guy in a "slow" car that passes drivers/cars with more hp and suspension, simply becuase they can drive!
Shit, do we like cars, or do we like what people think about us because of our cars? Perhaps that is the root of this issue. For me, it doesn't really matter either way. At least they are into automotive transport in some way! They may not score a 100% to me, but at least they pass!

I actually sort of like having ricers around...they give me a good laugh, especially if they rev at me;) The only thing that really pisses me off about ricers is that whenever confronted about power, they always talk about bhp per liter. Yes, its a technological marvel that they can make 100 bhp/L, but how the hell does this matter if they only have 1.6 L?? What really matters is power to weight.

and not only horse power but torque too

the only thing that ticks me off about the ricers around here is they all say that horsepower is everything. Torque is more important than horsepower especially in regular driving. And how they all think that a huge spoiler will make there car faster on the freeway. Any one who knows anything about drag will relize that it doesnt do anything but slow you down on the freeway, it may add stability, but takes away ur speed. Also most of the guys here dont know shit about engines. One of the guys who impresses some of the guys at my work is so proud that he knows that they stopped selling supras here cause no one wanted to pay that much for a 2.8 liter V4 engine. As far as i know, there has never been a V4 in cars because it is unbalenced. There is other stuff thay they thing is write but isnt but im usually to busy reading a mag about cars to correct them.

i woulda wooped that guys fuckin ass for a making a mistake like that about a Supra. V4 what a retard

Originally posted by Psman32@af
As far as i know, there has never been a V4 in cars because it is unbalenced.
They use V4s on motorcycles.

yeah and he said never in a car

I didn't say they used them in a car, either. :rolleyes: He said they were "unbalenced." If an engine is unbalanced in a car, don't you think it would be unbalanced on a bike?

Now, they do use I4s in Supras, but only in race models. Certainly not in the street cars.

The only motor i can think off was a V4 2Litre that Ford used in the early 1970's.....it was gutless, petrol hungry and un-reliable.

I tried to find a V4-powered car. I was sure Suzuki or Daihatsu or one of those motorcycle companies would have made a car with a motorcycle engine once, but I couldn't find a thing. I did find I2s and I3s, though. I imagine an I3 would be really hard to balance!

I like certain ricer car like the Skyline or one of the mitsu... but i still prefer pure sports car over ricer. the ricer just add the personality to the owner.
how many of you seen 3 civics in the same colour parked at the same row? how do you know which belongs to who if you didn't see the plate #? i guess thats why ricer boy mod their car, to give it a personality...

Mclaren, your confusing imports with ricers. There are many very respectable imports, a good example being the Skyline. This is a high performance car...ricers are improts that are not really fast, but made to look that way with those stupidass wings and stickers...

no i'm not. i know what ricers are.
as i said before i think he rice-boys did that kind of mods to their cars coz they wanted to make to make their car look diff.
maybe they didn't mod their car like what they stick on their cars coz they got no cash to do it. and all they were trying are to be cool just like any other dudes.
you cant blame them for not trying to look expensive:(. i know it's easy for rich guys like you, who have cash to mod you cars but it's hard for them.
thats why you see a powered by Lamborghini sticker on a Metro:D

Originally posted by McLarenFan
thats why you see a powered by Lamborghini sticker on a Metro:D
Wait a sec. ;) The next time you see this, you report immedeately to the Car Sightings (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/f788/) forum and post about it! LOL! That way we can all throw tomatoes!

dont worry mr silver, i will:D

i think for a lot of people that "rice out" their car, they do it to get attention......999 people out of 1000 see the stickers, the body kits and think "wow, that must be a fast car".....all those ricers out there want to impress those 999 people.....because most people dont realize that having a VTEC sticker on a DX doesnt make it a VTEC....

everybody who rices out their car does it for attention cuz they sure don't go fast. and you're definitely pushing it with 999/1000 people. just cuz some people don't know much about cars will still know it's retarded and it's just a little honda.

Around where I live in SoCal, I see these silly looking lowered Hondas and Acuras running around the street, and it just makes me laugh. They look absolutely ridiculous, and they defeat the whole purpose of owning Hondas and Acuras. Honda makes awesome cars...they are economical and super reliable, but when you do a bunch of modifications to a Civic, it's no longer a practical vehicle...instead it sounds like a $18,000 weed-whacker! I never understood the logic behind spending $12-13,000 for a car, and then spend $6-7,000 to trick it up. It sounds like s**t, and you can't even handle dips without having to slow down and hold up traffic. If you are going for the power, shop around and get something that comes with a lot of power, like a Z28 or a Cobra, both are very respectable, mean performers. I love it when my E30 pulls up alongside of a lowered Civic weed-whacker with Kanji stickers all over it. It'll most likely beat me in speed, but I know I'm cruising in style in a classic car that possesses the panache and class which a ricer will never even come close to having. They served their purpose when "Fast and the Furious" was being filmed, now they need to be pushed off of cliffs...one by one.

I personally can't stand the terms "rice" or "ricers" referring to cars or people. I think it's arogant and juvenile.

Modified compact cars are an artform unto their own. They're in the vein of early hot rods which were also detested in their time. Early hot rods (even some "muscle cars") had stickers all over them, which today the "anti-rice" movement think this adds "theoretical horsepower." Owners knew inthe 1950s, 1960s, and now that it's just decoration.

Some of these modified cars are quite impressive. Many of them take much more intelligence to modify than the "traditional" muscle cars. Anyone can put in a new camshaft or bore a cylinder out with the proper instruction and tools. It takes a little more know-how than that to program a computer...granted, some people have other people or "off-the-shelf" software to do it, but it's just a higher level of engine modification.

Once the "old school" people realize that the "new school" are just after the same end product (cool cars and powerful engines), this feud should be over. Although, I don't have any faith that the "old school" people will EVER see it that way...too set in their ways (can't teach an old dog new tricks).

I've driven (stock) cars with everything from 48hp to 450hp (maybe more, I don't remember all of the cars I've driven). Each one has its good and bad points. The 48hp car was not the worst and the 450hp car was not the best. I've been in Bugatti EB110s and Jaguar XJ220s as well as Acura NSXs and Ferrari 355s. Having experienced all of these, I would much rather drive a Ford Mustang Cobra or a Subaru Impreza WRX STi on a daily basis. Sure, those big cars were fun...but only in their realm, which is on a track. For regular roads, there are far too many cars to list that are more fun.

If you own your car to impress the neighbors, you purchased your car for the wrong reasons. If you can't be impressed by the work someone else has done to their car (no matter how much or how little) or you're not impressed solely by a vehicle because of it's country of origin, brand, number of doors, engine size, horsepower or torque rating, or the color of it, you're not a car enthusiast.

Open up your mind and you'll see that you've been blind to so many things. Civics can be modified in great ways, as can BMWs. The problems aren't the cars, the problems are with the minds of their owners.

Okay, for the sake of showing common courtesy, I think it would be more appropriate to call these cars modified imports instead of "ricers." My bad.

Hudson, I agree with you in that cars are an integral part of American pop culture, and that most people use them to incorporate their self expressions and self reflections. And yes, some of those car are probably modified intelligently. But the things that irk me about sharing the road with these tools in "modified" compacts are that you have to slow down with them when a dip is coming up...sometimes they slam on the brakes and catch everyone by surprise. Tru, you're supposed to slow down at dips, but to 2mph?! Also the loudness of the modified exhaust (remember, the amount of noise they put out in most cases is not even worth the amount of power boost they get for their effort and money) bugs the s**t out of everyone who might be asleep at 1:30 a.m.

Also, often these drivers think they are Mario Andretti when they get behind the wheel. This puts everyone's lives, including yours and mine in danger. I have personally seen several accidents caused by modified imports. One landed on its side on my friend's front yard because he didn't slow down in time to clear the dip in front of my friend's house. Fast cars are great, but don't you think they need to find a suitable place to race it? I know if any of these dumbasses hit my car, if I'm still concious, I will get out of the car and beat the living bejesus out of them!

The fact of the matter is, these cars are probably more suitable on the race track. They are completely impractical for daily. I fully support self expression, as long as you're not threatening other people's lives who share the roads with you or you're not waking everyone up in the middle of the night because your car sounds like a weed whacker.

And one more thing...the hot rods of yesteryears were build Detroit tough. The modified imports are held together by snot, have thin sheetmetal and a lot of plastic parts. The safety of the drivers of these cars are also challenged...but I guess it's Darwinism at work.

The thing that bugs me is the fact that they aren't fast even though they (try) to look like it. Believe me, I've met a lot of guys who like imports. When I ask them what mods they've got they usually reply things Mugen Sport Wing or 18" Haikikomo Rims and Toyo Tires. About half of them will say Greddy Exhaust or something like that, which does add power, but its very minimal. Maybe 1/5 of them have realistic performance mods, like cam, turbo, supercharger, N20, etc.

I don't think that it takes more work to work on imports than it does domestics. Usually, whenever I do see a fast import, it is because of bolt-ons like turbos, superchargers, and nitrous. Rarely do I hear of work on the internals. As for chip programming, this may be the only process that is more difficult. I do respect the fast ones, though. As for the slow ones, I'm still going to call them ricers:)

go right ahead... that's rice, so you call it rice

but you don't call a fast japanese car rice

you are correct :D

Again, you guys are missing the point of my rant. "Looking fast" is part of the modification process. "Sounding fast" is also part of it. If it's not fast, that beside the point. Hot-rodders have been doing this for decades. And early hot-rods were built from parts that were cheaper than Civics of today, most notably, Model Ts.

I've read the posts since my "rant" and it doesn't seem like you dislike the cars as much as their owners. There are owners of all brands/types of vehicles that I feel are stupid and a waste of otherwise perfectly good amino acids, but I don't bash on their cars for the stupidity of their owners.

I don't like loud vehicles (ESPECIALLY at 1:30am)...no matter if they're Ford Probes with 5" exhausts (I've got one in mind) or Harley-Davidsons with straight pipes. But it's not so much the cars as the owners who like to "entertain" those of us walking by/sleeping/watching TV/etc. Loud stereos do the same thing to me. I love my music, but I don't expect everyone else to do so.

It's not the cars, it's the owners. Car enthusiasts can appreciate all cars for what they are (or, sometimes, what they were intended to be). But being a car enthusiast mean you have to like their owners.

Originally posted by Hudson
But being a car enthusiast mean you have to like their owners. Sorry, Hudson, but I think something's missing in this sentence... :confused:

You're absolutely right....

"Being a car enthusiast DOESN'T mean you have to like their owners."

All of the times I've heard about early hot rodding, the engine was modded first, with appearance mods coming later. I guess they just do it in a different order today. Your point about the owners is a good one. Peace:smoka: ....

For your info' not anyone can by a BMW and some people like to have the "look" to their cars.
so what if some of them drives civic's - and so what if some of them improve them?

and how the hell sad you cant have fun with your honda ?

should I remind you that honda is on the first place with bmw on the "best engine" makers in the world ???
should I remind you the engine of the s2000 - a 240 hp from a 2 litre engine - and that my friend has a better hp fot litre the the m3 !!!

so please go and do some homework before you speak and waist our time !!!!!

Originally posted by moshe green

...and how the hell sad you cant have fun with your honda ?

should I remind you that honda is on the first place with bmw on the "best engine" makers in the world ???
should I remind you the engine of the s2000 - a 240 hp from a 2 litre engine - and that my friend has a better hp fot litre the the m3 !!!

so please go and do some homework before you speak and waist our time !!!!!


holy crap....not this again. I know that may or may not have been directed at me, but I'm aware the S2000 makes 120 hp/liter. While this is a very impressive statistic, it has nothing to do with real world performance. The only statistic that matters is power/weight. Yes the S2000 has amazing hp/liter, but the power to weight ratio is .08. This is great, but there are other cars that produce better power/weight stats. Take my '79 vette, for example. It uses a low tech 406ci (6.6 liter) engine that is not even fuel injected, but it still produces a p/w ratio of 1.3. Whose is the "better engine"? My point is, hp/liter doesn't matter.
Maybe you should do your homework next time...

Sorry I exploded, I've just argued this point so many times :( By the way, welcome to AF :)

Originally posted by moshe green
For your info' not anyone can by a BMW and some people like to have the "look" to their cars.
so what if some of them drives civic's - and so what if some of them improve them?

and how the hell sad you cant have fun with your honda ?

should I remind you that honda is on the first place with bmw on the "best engine" makers in the world ???
should I remind you the engine of the s2000 - a 240 hp from a 2 litre engine - and that my friend has a better hp fot litre the the m3 !!!

so please go and do some homework before you speak and waist our time !!!!!


buddy i think you need to re-read what we wrote

we never said civics are bad, or modding them is bad.. just ricing them, which means things that make the car look fast but don't improve performance. Like just putting a bodykit and big wing on it, that makes it look fast but it slows it down because the added weight and drag produced...

so we're talkin bout the owners who don't care how fast the car is or how well it performs, they just care how "cool" it looks

Originally posted by hakka


holy crap....not this again. I know that may or may not have been directed at me, but I'm aware the S2000 makes 120 hp/liter. While this is a very impressive statistic, it has nothing to do with real world performance. The only statistic that matters is power/weight. Yes the S2000 has amazing hp/liter, but the power to weight ratio is .08. This is great, but there are other cars that produce better power/weight stats. Take my '79 vette, for example. It uses a low tech 406ci (6.6 liter) engine that is not even fuel injected, but it still produces a p/w ratio of 1.3. Whose is the "better engine"? My point is, hp/liter doesn't matter.
Maybe you should do your homework next time...

Sorry I exploded, I've just argued this point so many times :( By the way, welcome to AF :)

I'm trying to figure out your math. First things first, 406cid is actually 6.7L.

Second, a LOWER power-to-weight ratio is better. I'm still trying to understand where your numbers of "0.08" and "1.3" come from, but your argument means that your car has a worse power-to-weight ratio...and "0.08" would be amazing.

The power-to-weight ratio (usually measured weight:power) of the S2000 is somewhere around 11lbs/hp...fairly amazing for a stock production car (especially one priced under $35k). Your modified car is most likely around 8lbs/hp...good (not fantastic) for a modified car.

Sorry about the math, I did the c.i. to liter thing mentally. For the power/weight ratios, I divided power over weight, so higher would be better. The more common way of doing it (like you said) is dividing weight by power, where lower is better. If you did it this way, the S2000 has about 11 1/2 pounds per hp, while my vette has 7 1/2. I know this isn't fantastic, but I paid less than half of what an S2000 would cost at MSRP.