Help My 12 Second Civic Dream

I really want to get a fast car and have a total budget of about 21 thousand to about 25 thousand dollers. I have been thinking about civics, 2004 dodge srt-4s, 1993 toyota mr2s, 240 sx, and integras. Im so overwhelmed and just cant make up my minds. I would like to get my car in the 12 seconds and low 5's high 4s 0-60 range eventually. The most practical idea i have come up with is getting a 1990 or anything between '98 to '00 civic ex or si ( probably ex because they're cheaper) Is this the riight car to go with and what engine should i get? There are so many options (http://www.jdm-online.com/honda/b18c5.html) like swapping a sr20det s14 engine into a 240 sx but civics have the most aftermarket products. Then also which engine should i get for the civic. H22? Well watever engine it is i would like about 200 horsepower. Then i would also like to add a powerfull turbo http://overboost.com/obs/product.asp?pid=20369 Then a catback exhaust, cold air intake, headers, new manifold if needed, stage 3 clutch, lightweight flywheel, downpipe, intercooler (may be included in turbo kit) Coilovers, suspension, sway bars, front and rear strut bars. As you can see theres a long list of things i want to put on the car. I want a high performance car but i dont know what the car is. I know what i want but feel like im walking in circles. So as i conclude, the only thing im sure about is that i want high boost in this car (turbo), a strong, new, reliable engine with about 200 hp, and am just not sure if a '98-00 civic is the the perfect car and am not sure if a h22a is the perfect engine. Please tell me how to get the fastest car possible with an initial amount of 21-25 grand. THANKS

I meant to say i would probably get a 1999 civic not 1990 and another item i would probably need if i got a swap is a new thin radiator to squeeze in the turbo

Get a 240, you'll have a much easier time getting to 12's with RWD.

mr2 would probably be the easiest to get into the 12's out of all those. In a civic, i'd opt for a k24 over an h22.

the best cars to go turbo on are cars that already come turbo...such as mr2, 240sx...
with 240 u just drop a sr20det..add a couple of minor mods and u'll hitting 12's...
these cars have motors that are internally built for turbo..where as civics (economy cars) are not!!!

with a civic however..there'll be much more work to do...but in ur 20 thou budget i believe it is possible..

drop a b18c1 in there about 170-180 hp...change all the stuff u mentioned..drop a turbo..depending on the body style of the civic i do not think it should be too hard for u to reach 12...

try looking for a dx body..they are the lightest..
in the coupes atleast...

h22 is a swap for more meant for an accord...not for a civic...it's too heavy..and it'll make ur front end too heavy!!!

if u find a clean rx7..for about 10..drop another 10 in there u should be hitting 10's...

change the twin turbo for a single garett turbo..

but then u have to know about rx7's...

little shyts go wrong with that car everyday..and u won't even know unless u know a rx7

I kind of like the SRT-4

thanks for all your replys and more replys are welcome, ill research more on mr2s and 240's and the engines you all mentioned. as apposed to civics for awhile since i know them well ill research the other cars mentioned.

rather have an evo or sti over srt4..anyday

those r also a crap load more expensive

this is the gathered info i've got so far from ur replys

get a 240sx-sr20det, but which turbo should i get?, links r good too
any unique mods for this car besides the usual i should put on this car

Civic DX- with a k24 engine

MR2, but which engine, and which turbo, again the more specific the more appreciated, links r amazing

get a eg hatch, throw in a b18c with rods and pistons. throw on a turbo kit, raise the psi till you hit 400whp, boom your all set

this is the gathered info i've got so far from ur replys

get a 240sx-sr20det, but which turbo should i get?, links r good too
any unique mods for this car besides the usual i should put on this car

Civic DX- with a k24 engine

MR2, but which engine, and which turbo, again the more specific the more appreciated, links r amazing

240sx - the best sr20 to get out of the bunch is the one coming out of the s15. Comes with 250hp stock.

Civic- You should slap a k20 type-r head onto the k24 block, toss in some low comp pistons then turbo it. (This would probably be the most pricey option out off all the cars listed) Although, B-Series still seems more practical at the moment, due to cost.

MR2- Turbo motor = 3sgte

srt4 is liek 24 25 and evo and sti is around 30..
right...
not so much of a diff

I dunno where you come from, but 5 grand difference isn't pocket change.

240 sx- does it matter what year the car is for the s15 sr20det swap?

civic- how much would the pistons cost, you said it was the most pricey but will it be faster then the 240sx?

mr2- r we just dropping this car? Maybe not practical?

just want a car in the 12s for under 24 grand

is anyone familiar with indy extreme imports, i live in indiana and thought i could get an engine swap done there. How much would installation be, and could i sell my stock engine to them to take off the installation cost?

Hey blazedout06, i can find a used '04 srt-4 for 12 grand. Thats lookin a lil better then a 30 grand evo..

screw the evo. You'll be going thru clutches and tires like crazy. You can't drive it like a regular car, not even like a regular AWD car. It's a very high maintnance car. Not worth the $ IMO.

I would definitely suggest a RWD or AWD. You are very limmited with a FWD car. You can only do so much. I saw a 750 hp prelude. that still couldn't dip below 10.5-11. How about a Buick GNX I know most of the suggestions have been imports. But with 20-25 g's you can get a 87 GNX with like 15-20 thousand miles on it and you are already running low to mid 13's with a 0-60 of 4.7. If I had that kind of money that's the car I would own. Or an LS1 Camarro also running mid 13's and a 5.2 0-60 and is VERY upgradeable and reliable but will kill gas millage.

I do like the RX-7 Idea although a buddy of mine has one and they are not reliable. AMAZING car though.

Also Turboing a honda isn't usually the smartest move when it comes to reliability. No offense, I know it can be done right and it can be built to last but it takes alot. And if you want to turbo an H series. Your best bet is an H23, I know it doesn't have the V-tec but it does have a closed deck which makes it much more accepting of the boost. but whatever you do it's going to take alot of internal engine work to turbo a honda unless you want to run 5-7 psi forever. Which probably won't put you in the 12's nor would it have a 0-60 of less than 5.

k so civics are deffinately not gonna work for my needs, i kinda figured that out and the fact that it was fwd always bugged me but my friend who does know a ton about cars insisted that i get a civic cuz of the convenience and the wide amount of aftermarket parts.

Ok so on with the 240sx, mr2, recently added camaro and buick gnx.
Will the camaro and gnx be reliable, i dont want an older car that will have a tendency to brake down. What sort of mods would be put into the gnx and camaro? Engine swap?

Nothing has recently been mentioned about the mr2. Maybe thats not the best car, it has the engine in the back so it may get annoying fish tailing all the time and allthough im going to avoid driving in winter as much as possible an mr2 would b hell to drive.

240 sx, wat about a r33 engine? More expensive but is it worth it? What turbo upgrade should i put on this? Garret GT25R ball bearing? GOOD INFO on the different engines and quoted prices- http://www.jspec.com/frontclips.html. AGAIN THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP!! im gettin so excited about building this race car.

Well the LS1 was only put in camaro's from like 98-02 I believe. But it was just the later ones. They also come with a 6 speed and that's always fun. A Camaro is very reliable because it is all motor and you could find one with less than 20,000 miles in your price range so it would last a long time.

As for the GNX the problem with them is the last year they made them was in 87. Although if you find one with low enough miles it will be reliable. Buick Grand National's are amazing cars. It has a turbo'd V6 so with a new turbe you could be running low to mid 12's easy. They are rear will drive. But my biggest problem with a GNX is they only come with an automatic and their top speed is 124, so if you are looking to drag they are great, but if you are looking for flat out speed forget it.

Both cars are have a large amount of upgrades. The Camaro would be 10-15 years newer than a GNX but I still love GNX's

mr2- r we just dropping this car? Maybe not practical?

I wouldn't drop it. It's probably the most practical out of all of the cars because it will require the least amount of work. No motor swapping required (provided its the turbo model). In fact, out of all the cars listed, it would be at the top of my list if i were in your situation. Sorry, I can't provide much information on it, but theres a guy named JekylandHyde that posts here also, he owns one that runs a high 11. If anyone can help you out with building your mr2, its him.

Well hello everyone :) ImportRacer3 directed me over here.

The MR2 is a very capable car. It's midengine layout is ideal for launching and it's turbocharged 3SGTE engine takes to modifciation really well.

You asked for a site on how to get power from an MR2. Try here:
http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm

I bought "Hyde" with 180,000 miles. He was bone stock.
I have since taken him to well over 350 RWHP, done over 120 quarter-mile passes (most in the 12s, over a dozen in the 11s). I have also done 3 SCCA Solo 1 Hill Climbs, over 1/2 dozen SCCA Solo 2 Autocrosses, 20+ dynos pulls and lots and lots of abusive street driving.

My car now has 200,222 miles on an unopened engine. It's all documented.

Are there a lot of junk MR2s out there? ... sure, there are plenty of beat, high mileage sports cars of all types.
I would recommend finding a bone-stock MR2 to start your project with.

At any rate, I vote for the MR2. Not only can you have a 11/12 second car, but it will also be road race worthy. You build a 12 second Civic and chances are good I would not want to see you racing through the twisties.

As for budget, I could get you into the 11s for a lot less $$ than you talked about in your PM.

If you want to see more of what my car is about, check out my Web site ... or better yet, order my DVD :D

an unopened engine. You build a 12 second Civic and chances are good I would not want to see you racing through the twisties.



what do you mean by unopened engine and what do you mean by you wouldnt want to see me racing through the twisties with a civic? Also you said i should start with a stock mr2 but the car will probably have high miles. Im assuming the next step of the mr2 would b to get a 3sgte engine swap?

unopened means he never took the head off the block and did any internal work. I think he also ment not to buy an MR2 that has been modded. The same reason you shouldn't buy any pre-modded car of any type. Because you never know how much the previous owner beat on the car. You'll be able to find a used MR2 with lower mileage, you just have to look around. Just don't rush into buying the first car you see, because something better will always come around eventually.
But I disagree with the comment about doing SCCA with a Civic. There are a lot of Civics that do very well in autocross. I mean you'd have to beef up the suspension a little but they can be very fast. Just ask CivicSiRacer he'll tell ya. You just have to know how to drive.

a Civic is capable of being a pretty good handling car. it takes a bit of work but it can be done

Also he's right about the getting better ¼ times for less $ than you're talking about. That's another reason why so many people have Civics and Integras. They're fairly light weight cars and have tons of aftermarket support and engine swaps available. There are just so many ways you could get there. You could get any B-series motor, do a moderate amount of motor work, and turbo it and you could easily be in 12's. But I'm not trying to sway you to a Honda, because it's a well known fact that RWD cars are better for the drag strip and getting the power to the ground. I'd recommend going to a car site like www.edmunds.com (http://www.edmunds.com) or something like that, comparing the features and specs on all the cars you're interested in. Then go out and test drive those cars, because a test drive is the only way you'll know for sure if a car is right for you. Like for me, the first time I drove my friends Civic I was hooked on the idea of driving one. Now I've had mind for over a year now and couldn't be happier with my decision.

Civic, is right on with his interpretation of my post. Unopened means I have ZERO engine work. That engine has not been touched since it was originally assembled 15 years ago.

And as staeted, I would not buy someone else's modification project.

I'm not sure why you keep refering to "Swapping in a 3SGTE" engine?? .... The turbo MR2 comes with that engine already, no need to swap it in.

Civic, please do not take offense to my post. I have nothing against Civics. Keep my words in context.

I am not talking about just autocrossing, I was also talking about Road racing (see previous sentence) ... I race Solo 1 Hill climbs as well as autocross. And yes, a Civic could be set up to do that well also ... but not a 12 second Civic. :)

My point is that most Civics that are set up for Drag racing would be dangerous or foolish on an autocross/hill climb course.

Very few cars make sense to set up for both types of races. The MR2 is one of them.

hell if you got money get an awd car. i would get a galant vr-4. i have seen those with not that much mods go 12.5's. thats my 2 cents

Civic, please do not take offense to my post. I have nothing against Civics. Keep my words in context.

I am not talking about just autocrossing, I was also talking about Road racing (see previous sentence) ... I race Solo 1 Hill climbs as well as autocross. And yes, a Civic could be set up to do that well also ... but not a 12 second Civic. :)

My point is that most Civics that are set up for Drag racing would be dangerous or foolish on an autocross/hill climb course.

Very few cars make sense to set up for both types of races. The MR2 is one of them.

Oh no I don't take offence to your post at all. I know you're not bashing or anything.

But I see what you're saying now. I agree a 12 second Civic wouldn't really make the best road race car. But it'd certainly be fine for autocross. My buddy has a '95 Civic with an H22a/turbo swap, I mean he doesn't pull 12's yet, but he still did the best in his class at a local SCCA event. He's got a small turbo so it spools really quick (dies past 6,200rpms), but he does high 13's with it. I know there's a huge difference between 12's and high 13's but he could still do fine with more power. But certainly a rwd car would have he advantage on sharp turns with more power. But there are a wide variety of quality adjustable suspensions available for Civics, so it would be possible to have it both ways (drag and road racing/autocross).

well he can't get an evo or STI for 25 grand anyway, and they're only running mid 13's to begin with. I'd have to say the 240 is the best option of those cars. BlazedOut is right, the best option is a car that is already turboed. Even look at a 300Z, my friend picked up one that needed some work for like 4 grand, and the body and frame were fine. Either way, go with something already turboed.

Oh and also, as far as the Grand National, those are indeed great drag cars. I've been told that just putting like 3-5 grand into one, you can hit 11's. However, after that you kind of hit a brick wall, and have to start swapping engines and stuff. But with 25 grand, none of that should be a problem.

For drag Id vote for a 240sx with a RB26DETT swap, 3" downpipe, along with all the other basic mods and you will easily be in the 12's

Only problem with 240sx's an motor swapps are finding traction.Yea you are making loads of power, but putting it to the ground is pretty hard on those cars.I've seen 300HP+ 240's only making high 13's on passes.Why, simple, traction problems.EVen with lsd an performance tires, slippage is still a key factor.

I must admit that i am a honda guy so i will throw out my suggestion.88-91 crx with a simple first gen b16a swap and t3/4 turbo setup at 10 psi.That will get you into mid/low 13's.And you are only pushing about 230hp.Now mod the internals an drop the compression and turn up your boost to 18 psi, will break 12's easily.
All this can be done for (including the price of the car) under 8 thousand dollars.For another 2g's or so you can make the car handle like crazy for auto x or whatever you are into.

For drag Id vote for a 240sx with a RB26DETT swap, 3" downpipe, along with all the other basic mods and you will easily be in the 12'sDont waste your time with any of the suggested car go find a used awd turbo talon slap a bigger turbo on there do some tuning and you will be running 12's or better in no time.
www.dsmtuner.com

A Eg6 With An H22 And A 75 Shot Is Guranted Mid 12's, Mr-2 With The 4g63, Or 24o With Ka24 Turbo(capable Of 400whp) Stock Internals, But Do U Want A Daily Driver 2? Or Just All Out Drag? Dsm Suck!

like i said before.

eg hatch, gsr motor. new pistons, rods, valvetrain, lsd, new axles, slicks, turbo kit. turn the boost up to 400whp, there you go.

actually 300whp will get you into the 12s, and with 300whp you dont need new pistons, rods, or valvetrain. so basically eg hatch, gsr motor, turbo kit. tune to 300whp, yoru in 12s

GO find a AWD TURBO TALON

dsm sucks

dsm sucks
If you're going to post nonsense like that, then you're not going to last very long on these forums. If you're going to make a comment like that, at the very least give an educative answer as to why you think it sucks. It's like me saying that stock Civics suck. I do think they suck. But I think they suck based on the fact that they are slow economy cars. That doesn't mean I think they suck in general, I don't. But you need to explain your comments better instead of making a comment that could be considered just ignorance.

Anyways a stock tsi talon would probably run circles around a stock and slightly modded civic.

Flaming will not be tolerated here @ AF. If you do not agree with something someone said or suggested, say so in a polite manner and state educated reasons as to why you feel this is true, but do not flame.

Take a minute to re-read the AF User guidelines.
AF User Guidelines (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/guidelines.html)

Also, it was stated eariler in here a SRT-4 brand new costs 24-25K, which is incorrect.
srt4 is liek 24 25 and evo and sti is around 30..
right...
not so much of a diff

If someone paid 24-25K they overpaid. A Dodge SRT-4 can be had brand new for a lot less than the 24-25K stated earlier in here. You can find them brand new all day long for around 20K, a full 4-5K less than was stated above (which is a full 10k+ less than an Sti or Evo8, and 10K is quite a big difference pricewise). Most of the SRT-4's @ the local dealership state an MSRP $20,650.00, with a claimed the Invoice of $19,152.00. Of course, if you are seriously looking into buying a new car, it's always a good idea to check out the invoice cost yourself so you know how much room to bargain you have. If you are equipped with the facts and have the facts in front of you, you can knock quite a bit off the price.

quote from sohcfreak- But Do U Want A Daily Driver 2? Or Just All Out Drag?

yah i need to drive it everyday, except in the winter ill avoid driving it and probably drive parents suv

as far as the choice of cars... i dono the mr2 is still lookin good, this hyde guy says he can tell me exactly how to make an mr2 is the high 11s for less dough then i originally said and he has one so he has proof of his sucess. im still considering some of the other ideas floating around though

I can get you into 11s assuming the MR2's engine that you buy is ion healthy condition. All bets are off if it needs a rebuild.

Dsm Tranny Dont Last, Motors Over Heat, Coil Packs Crack, Transfer Case Blows...literaly....what Else Do U Want...its Made From Chyrsler

sohcfreak97, you forgot "crank walk" .... :)

I dunnohow quick or how reliable these frankenstien cars ive seen around are, I also dont even know how much they are or who would build one for you, but just a suggestion are converted RWD integras and del sols with H22's. Also you can find a civic/crx for like 1000 or less and have 24 to make it faster, a crv motor would do well with a t3/t4 turbo becuase a crv motor has the torque that other b series lack. I say just drop about 10-15 grand on a B20B crv motor and you could be hitting 12's.

my friends and i are intrigued about the idea of getting a honda s2000, the lines on the car are beautiful, we want a track car as well and this handles beautifully. It has 240 hp in that tiny light weight car, and adding a turbo would add some amazing boost even though it is already 5.3 seconds 0-60, it is 14.1 seconds in the quarter mile so adding a turbo and making it light weight, like removal of the spare tire, air conditioning, cd/ radio deck and speakers. then hopefully it would be in the 12s. but anyways it would probably be fast and it would be super fun on the track, not just drag. It was rated number one on car and drivers top 10 list or sumthin, it was better then a porsche gt3, audi tt, nissan 350z, and a bmw z4 to name the highlights. Its faster then all of those in the 0-60 time except the bmw. And its a much cheaper car. But anyways wondering what you think of this new car, well new for the list of cars we have been considering.

if you get a s2000, u better have a back up drivetrain

why is that?

yah i think an mr2 is the best thing so far. 11 seconds... wow. and for a lot less money

because s2000's have weak drivetrains. with regular tires its ok. but once you throw on slicks, you run a good chance of blowing the drivetrain

It has 240 hp in that tiny light weight car, and adding a turbo would add some amazing boost even though it is already 5.3 seconds 0-60, it is 14.1 seconds in the quarter mile so adding a turbo and making it light weight, like removal of the spare tire, air conditioning, cd/ radio deck and speakers. then hopefully it would be in the 12s. but anyways it would probably be fast and it would be super fun on the track, not just drag. It was rated number one on car and drivers top 10 list or sumthin, it was better then a porsche gt3, audi tt, nissan 350z, and a bmw z4 to name the highlights. Its faster then all of those in the 0-60 time except the bmw.

Haha, an S2000 faster than a GT3? Are you kidding me? the GT3 does 0-60 in like 4.2 and the 1/4 mile in the mid 12's, like 12.4. Granted there is a major price difference, but the GT3 is leaps and bounds above the S2000. I guess if you want to spend the money, go ahead, but there are much better cars to buy for a drag/track uses that are far cheaper. You're gonna be spending at least $20,000 right off the bat for the car. You could pick up like an rx7, or even an older supra, for half that, and then still have 10K to put into the car. Just my 2 cents.

If your working with 25 thousand why dont you just get someone who imports cars to get youa right hand drive beauty...

If you would like to go that route, let me know.

my bad it was a boxster

how much would it cost approximately to ship an mr2 from california to indiana (i live in indiana)? A lot of the good mr2s i find are located in california and i was wondering if it would be worth the money cuz some of the cars i find seem to be worth to pay a grand or 1500 in shipping for it.

But if anyone can help me im looking for a black 1991-1993 mr2 turbo thats manuel transmission with high miles and really cheap like 4-7,000 dollers. The second option is to get a more expensive mr2 (anything around 10 grand to 15 grand or so if worth it) with already less miles like 30 to 40 thousand miles. A rebuilt engine will not suffice and the reason im considering a high miled cheap mr2 as well is because because of the cheap price i could afford to put in/swap a new 3sgte engine/sw20 (japanese version generation 3 with 220 hp.) thanks for your help

get a eg hatch, throw in a b18c with rods and pistons. throw on a turbo kit, raise the psi till you hit 400whp, boom your all set

^be careful wht pistons you get...they should be the same as stock, but a dif. material. if the pistons are more domed than stock would be more compression, adding a turbo to that could easily blow up yer motor if u dont know wht yer doin

what you boys think of a honda s2000 with a vortech supercharger that adds 110 hp. then add headers downpipe and exhaust. were lookin at 370 hp at least

just a thought

thats about 300 to 320 rwhp

with the s2000 you still have the rear end issues

S2000 are not good with forced induction unless you plan on doing many internal changes. I have driven many turboed and supercharged S2000. They are barely faster than stock. The normal S2000 with a Vortec supercharger runs a 13.8 in the 1/4 versus the 14.1 in stock formation.

There are way too many people that are pissing me off here. An eg hatch will run 12's with a b18c5 and the basic bolt-ons, i/h/e. I know this because my friends 94 hatch with this exact setup ran 12.98. He also kicks ass in autocross. Add new cams and fuel management maybe Hondata and you will be in mid to low 12's, and rule the autocross track. Also a k-series swap with the same things will do the same and even better. The k-series is lighter than the b-series. Forget forced induction. You don't need it. You will be more reliable, and cooler if you have an NA car running 12's. The other suggestions are not bad, but everyone is not giving the Civic the credit it deserves.

Also the h22 is not way hevier than a b-series motor, it has to sit at a different angle causing a slight handling problem which is easily fixed with suspension. My other friends has a b18c1 with a turbo, he has stock internals and head, Hondata running at 8psi and is making 278.9whp. He hasn't run the car yet, but the only thing that could keep him out of 11's would be traction. Which is also the reason NA hondas are usually faster on the street then turboed ones, from a stop.