'99 LX 3.8L Bad Engine Noise Identified!

One of you guys was partially correct about my bad engine noise. The baffle did come loose in the air plenum and thrashed around so much that a chunk of hard plastic broke away and got drawn through the induction to the valve. I think what happened next is that the valve got held open by the plastic chunk. This wore a lobe off the camshaft and also messed a few minor items up. At least this is what I thought the shop told me (and they have been trustworthy before). New cam, new misc valve train parts, new isolator bolts for the plenum, seals and gaskets and lots of labor. I was amazed it ran as good as it did with a worn cam lobe.

I will tell you more when I learn more. I certainly appreciate your help! I will try to do the same for you if I can.

Been there seen that.... I have been reading alot of the posts on these forums and have bit my tongue as to some of the "cheap fixes" ..... I've read about the RTVing the upper intake and fixing the noise... all the while I knew the result for some poor DIYer would be a piece of plastic breaking off and going down the intake. All I can say is be VERY careful when taking advise and doing the DIY projects. There are unforseen reasons the manufacture makes "updated" parts. Though not always the cheapest way to repair your vehicle they are intended for the long haul. Agree or disagree as you may but I've fixed several "DIY" projects that resulted in twice the $$ the original repair would have initally been had there not been a "fix" performed.
Don't take this post the wrong way.. I'm not saying I know it all. I don't and will never claim to (and I'm actively in the industry as employment). I just hope to send the message to be careful and think about what you do before proceeding. I have also found there is a wealth of knowledge on this site, it's amazing how much research the general public really does do on their automobiles and it is to be commended. I've read many threads and found that many are right in line with what the problem and fix are. I must say thanks for providing me with a great site to read and have interest in.
Good luck and hope to see more great info in the future.

I may be the father of the RTV "fix" (or ruination) to the upper-inner intake plenum vibration problem.

To my mind, it's riskier to leave the vibration uncorrected ... than to make an effort to dampen the oscillations. If this is not the case, I apologize profusely for leading others astray.

I have two categories of questions:

1. Is there indeed an upgraded part by Ford to fix this problem? A TSB? A recall? (If "yes" to any of these... I, being an outsider, have missed the information....but Ford has my address and knows I bought one of their Winnies...mails me several service notices a year...oil changes, tires, brakes, etc ... no intake manifold notices!).

2. Has anyone who used the RTV to dampen upper intake vibration... had a breakage that was CAUSED by the RTV? Even "indirectly"? (i.e., you were swayed to do the "RTV fix"... instead of taking other more reasoned maintenance procedures that you knew of)?

I may be the father of the RTV "fix" (or ruination) to the upper-inner intake plenum vibration problem.

To my mind, it's riskier to leave the vibration uncorrected ... than to make an effort to dampen the oscillations. If this is not the case, I apologize profusely for leading others astray.

I have two categories of questions:

1. Is there indeed an upgraded part by Ford to fix this problem? A TSB? A recall? (If "yes" to any of these... I, being an outsider, have missed the information....but Ford has my address and knows I bought one of their Winnies...mails me several service notices a year...oil changes, tires, brakes, etc ... no intake manifold notices!).

2. Has anyone who used the RTV to dampen upper intake vibration... had a breakage that was CAUSED by the RTV? Even "indirectly"? (i.e., you were swayed to do the "RTV fix"... instead of taking other more reasoned maintenance procedures that you knew of)?

I have not seen any TSB's on this as I recently checked and so did my repair shop. After seeing what happened to me I would not recommend the RTV fix either. The risk is just too great. You can imagine how much it is costing to make the repair to a worn cam and damaged valve train. The minute you suspect a loose plenum show it to the dealer. If this is an emerging problem then I think we should let FMC know quickly so others do not have to suffer through this.

If Ford did not squeeze their suppliers so hard for cost reductions we not be reading and writing so much in this forum. When I think of all my "Windywoes" they seem to be related to bad parts and not necessarily bad design or assembly. What do you all think?

In response to the RTV and whole intake manifold "vibration" topic... Ford is always releasing updated parts. I being a former tech for Ford never realized this until I was there and working on a vehicle, found the problem, went to get a part and found that the part had been updated once, twice or even three times. Just because Ford updates parts doesn't mean they tell the public, in fact they usually keep their mouth shut as this would only give people the intention they have "problems" or they make worry warts out of everyone who they told "we have a new updated part, come see us if you have this problem."
Also Ford only releases a limited amount of information. Fortunately I'm still tied in pretty good with the dealership I quit and still can get access to all the info I need. Ford puts out TSB's as do many manufacturers as you are well aware but Ford also puts out SSM's (special service messages). These SSM's are only available to Ford dealerships. They are similar to a TSB but are more like a compilation of things that Ford and their techs have seen problems with and are letting the dealership world know about them. Sometimes SSM's contain new updated part numbers or updated procedures for example. Try as you may you will never find any of these SSM's published on the internet. Trust me I've looked.
I have never tried the RTV fix myself and would not recommend it to any of my closest friends or would be friends. To me RTV is short for Really Trying Very hard to fix. RTV is a wonderful product and without it the industry would be lost. However it has it's place.
Just some more info about our wonderful manufacturer Ford and what they don't tell you. By the way have any of you had any problems with your '03 Windstars? Just wondering. Thanks and keep on fixin.

In response to the RTV and whole intake manifold "vibration" topic... Ford is always releasing updated parts. I being a former tech for Ford never realized this until I was there and working on a vehicle, found the problem, went to get a part and found that the part had been updated once, twice or even three times. Just because Ford updates parts doesn't mean they tell the public, in fact they usually keep their mouth shut as this would only give people the intention they have "problems" or they make worry warts out of everyone who they told "we have a new updated part, come see us if you have this problem."
Also Ford only releases a limited amount of information. Fortunately I'm still tied in pretty good with the dealership I quit and still can get access to all the info I need. Ford puts out TSB's as do many manufacturers as you are well aware but Ford also puts out SSM's (special service messages). These SSM's are only available to Ford dealerships. They are similar to a TSB but are more like a compilation of things that Ford and their techs have seen problems with and are letting the dealership world know about them. Sometimes SSM's contain new updated part numbers or updated procedures for example. Try as you may you will never find any of these SSM's published on the internet. Trust me I've looked.
I have never tried the RTV fix myself and would not recommend it to any of my closest friends or would be friends. To me RTV is short for Really Trying Very hard to fix. RTV is a wonderful product and without it the industry would be lost. However it has it's place.
Just some more info about our wonderful manufacturer Ford and what they don't tell you. By the way have any of you had any problems with your '03 Windstars? Just wondering. Thanks and keep on fixin.

Thanks for that inside info, Windstar4family. I learned more from the repair shop that the piece in my plenum that got ingested was called a "holder". Apparently this is different than the baffle, which i thought had broken. I am supposed to get a box of all the old parts so i will have more info to share. I know i should be more on top of this, but at the same time my Dodge Caravan's transmission went into default mode. Fixed it with a new output speed sensor (thank God).

I would be interested to see the "keeper".... are you in a position that you can post pictures when you receive your box o parts?

My intake plenum was vibrating. I cant imagine how a piece could break of after being rtv'd. it doesnt really have too much room to move around. why wouldnt the RTV trick work. The baffle is in prety close quarters and I cant imagine the RTV fix not working. It seems the clips are the ones that shrink back from heat over time and no longer lock in place. please tell me why this wont work.

2000, 3.8l

Mackab
I think that some folks are assuming that the RTV is being used in EXCLUSION of other good maintenance practices. That of course, is not the case.
When I did my intake manifold work, I went the whole nine yards...all parts cleaned and inspected...no gaskets were reused..none, lower manifold gaskets and seals were replaced, isolator bolts (old style) were replaced. Torque wrench. New valve cover. Etc, ... no skimping!

When I saw how the inner plastic piece was retained ... nothing "soft" to dampen vibrations... I then knew why some folks were getting noise. A bit of RTV at the top and bottom of that piece can't do anything but help dampened it.

I've got about 60k miles on my repair...when/if it reaches 100k, I may open it up again just to see what the inside conditions are then.

I would be interested to see the "keeper".... are you in a position that you can post pictures when you receive your box o parts?


I am hoping to get Windy back tomorrow with a box of old parts. I will do my best to get you some pix. Ford will be getting some of these pix as well. Does anyone have the address or phone number of the district manager for New England?

My intake plenum was vibrating. I cant imagine how a piece could break of after being rtv'd. it doesnt really have too much room to move around. why wouldnt the RTV trick work. The baffle is in prety close quarters and I cant imagine the RTV fix not working. It seems the clips are the ones that shrink back from heat over time and no longer lock in place. please tell me why this wont work.

2000, 3.8l

RTV might secure the baffle, but you are right that the holders/retainers are the problem. When I get my box of parts back from the shop i will have more info and maybe some pix for you to look at.

It just seems to me that there is very little room for the plenum to move around. Since the 2 retaining clips seem to shrink due to heat/blow-by oil, I think RTV would be a great way to dampen the "slight" vibration. A daub of RTV at the retaining clips should keep the vibration down and keep the retainers from breaking free. VERY interested in seeing some type of picture of damage.

It just seems to me that there is very little room for the plenum to move around. Since the 2 retaining clips seem to shrink due to heat/blow-by oil, I think RTV would be a great way to dampen the "slight" vibration. A daub of RTV at the retaining clips should keep the vibration down and keep the retainers from breaking free. VERY interested in seeing some type of picture of damage.

Please see my update in a newer thread above. It was not the plenum at all!