Companion Site

I can't remember who start up the companion site for the old Cartrackers site but I know I was able to post before but I forgot my passwords et al.

Anyway I wondered if it might be a good idea to post the TSB 03-16-1 (or whatever it is) for the 171/174 codes. I have a lot of people asking for it and sending me a private message and although I do not mind in the least, I thought it might be easier if there was somewhere to go and get it.

Perhaps the moderator of the companion site, assuming he/she is still around can let me know and I can send it to them to post or they can enlighten me on how to go about doing it myself.

Thanks

You mean this site?

http://groups.msn.com/FordWindstar

That would be the one

I kind of sit on the fence on posting actual TSB details on our website.

On the plus side if the service depts. have these details and we own the vehicle we should be aware of these types of defects in our vehicles so we can be properly informed of the fix. I think getting the TSB details from the dealership or from individuals via email is a good route.

On the negative side Ford and other manufacturers sell the TSB and service info to outlets like ALLDATA.com etc. If registered users who have access to this TSB details turn around and post the details then ALLDATA.com and FORD etc. have lost money on this subscription service (not a bad thing since those details should be available to everyone in my opinion). But with the loss of revenue from sharing this information there is less incentive for ALLDATA.com to host this type of subscription service and less incentive for FORD to allow access to this type of detailed information. Without access to these types of detailed TSBs and service information we'd all be at the mercy of the dealership service depts. Also ALLDATA.com specifically prohibits reposting any information from their site as part of their user agreement.

Just curious, did you get the TSB from the dealership or through a subscription service like ALLDATA.com?

I can't remember where I got it from.........but I see your point. I never thought of a copyright sort of issue. I agree that it may not be a good idea to post it.

I also understand the argument against the posting. Ford might get PO'd.

But you would hope that Ford would support any action that would help their customers get the most convenient, low-cost, service benefit possible.

Heck, maybe the customers would remain Ford customers.

Of course if that was the case they would have the TSB's on the Ford website.

I beleive there is too much money to be made on the repairs even if they are basically design flaws.

Well these posts pretty much tell you everything you need to know to perform TSB 03-16-1. We all mind as well of posted the actual TSB. A couple of weeks ago I took my van in because I had the codes 171 174. They told me what had to be replace and how much it would cost. $500. That's when I started reading the message boards and forums and doing Google searches. Now I'm very knowledgeable about the whole TSB 03-16-1 isolator bolt thing, but I was never able to get my hands on the actual TSB. So I called my Ford dealership today and told them I'm ready to do the isolator bolt thing but I told them I think that I can do it myself. I just needed help from them to figure out what parts I needed. They were happy to help me and told me the list of parts. One of the parts being a new valve cover. See where this is going, guys? I played dumb and said
"The valve cover?! What could possibly be wrong with the valve cover? It's a piece of formed metal. What, was my bent or something?"

The answer I got was. "I don't know, Mr. highlifesipper. I would ask the mechanic that did the diagnostics and service on your van but unfortunatley that mechanic is no longer with us."

"Huh.", I said "Well there must be someone that can tell me why I need a whole new valve cover. I mean it's a valve cover. What the hell could go wrong with a valve cover? I mean It doesn't even have any moving parts. Are you sure you don't mean the valve cover gasket?"

"No, sir." she said "The valve cover. You need a new one. I'll have someone call you back that can give you an answer."

So a couple of hours went by and no one called me back. So I called back and asked for Chris the Service Manager.

"So why do I need a new valve cover?", I asked.

"There's a new design now.", he said.

"A new design? Well there's two valve covers. Should I go ahead and buy two?", I asked.

"No.", he said "It's the one in the front that you need."

"What's different about the new design?", I asked

He stumbled over his word for a second and replied, "The new design helps things flow better. It's like an upgrade.", he said

"Well how do I know if I need the new one.", I asked.

"When you had your van in here we determined you did in fact have the old one.", he said.

"Well if all it does is help things flow better, I don't necessarily need it. Right?", I asked.

And then he said, and this is really his exact words.
"7 out of 10 times it helps the car perform better."

Either this guy doesn't know what he's talking about and trying to make it seem like he does or he's doing some serious dodging of the infamous "hole in the baffle" problem. Then he actually mentioned the TSB. I asked him if I could get a copy of it and he said yes. I went and picked it up tonight. This dude is either ignorant of the problem or he's straight up lying because he thought that I didn't know the real deal. The only reason he thought this was because I was doing a good job of playing stupid. So F him and F Ford.

Want to see a scanned copy of the TSB? I actually just found one on google and copied the link. Click here:

http://members.fortunecity.com/donk...SB_03-16-1.html

If you go to this link you'll get a lot of pop ups, but it shows you scanned copies of the Technical Service Bullentin TSB 03-16-1

And here. I'll just go ahead and type the whole damn thing just in case the link dies.

Article No. 03-16-1

DRIVEABILITY - DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTCS) P0171/P0174 STORED IN MEMORY-VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 3.8L ENGINE

MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP (MIL) - MIL ILLUMINATED WITH DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES (DTCS P0171/P0174 STORED IN MEMORY -

VEHICLES EQUIPPIED WITH 3.8L ENGINE

FORD: 1999-2003 WINDSTAR

This TSB supersedes 03-4-7 and 00-21-8

ISSUE: Some vehicles may exhibit a check engine light on and lean Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) P0171/P0174 (system too

lean bank 1 0r 2) stored in memory.

Action: Do not replace PCM (Powertrain Control Module), MAF (Mass Air Flow), or HEGO's (Heated Oxygen Sensors),as these parts

are not the root cause of the lean codes conditions described. Refer to the following Service Procedure for details.

SERVICE PROCEDURE: These conditions may be caused by a loose fitting on the fuel pressure regulator vacuum line on the

intake manifold end and /or leaking isolator blots/port gaskets in the lower upper intake manifold mounting area. This

condition is sometimes intermittent and may not be apparent on warmed-up engine.

If the vacuum line from the intake manifold to the fuel pressure regulator is loose at the manifold (due to oil

contamination), replace the vacuum line (9E498) and install a new design LH service valve cover (6582). Another vacuum leak

source is the gasket (9H486) between the upper and lower intakek manifold assemblies caused by a loss of tension at the

isolator bolt assemblies (9S479) due to contamination of the rubber grommets from excessive oil pullover.

1. Perform self test, if codes P0171, P0174 are the only codes stored in the PCM then continue with this article.

For any other codes, follow the normal diagnostic procedures found in the PC/ED Manual.

2. (ALL 19999-2003). Reprogram the PCM (Powertrain Control Module) with the latest calibration, WDS B26.2 release

or later. Do not replace the PCM. Reset the Keep alive memory.

3. (1999-2001 ONLY). Inspect the vacuum line from the intake manifold to the fuel pressure regulator for

looseness, leaks and /or oil contamination and replace Vacuum Line (XF2z-9E498-DD) if required.

4. (1999-2000 ONLY). Inspect the Lh Valve Cover, it should be a (3F2Z-6582-BA) Install a new LH Valve Cover if

required, refer to Workshop Manual Section 303-01 Valve Cover-LH. (REfer to the following NOTE for description of the old

style valve cover).

NOTE
USING A SHOP LIGHT OR FLASHLIGHT, CHECK THE LH VALVE COVER TO SEE IF IT HAS ALREADY BEEN UPDATED TO THE LATEST LEVEL. REMOVE

THE PCV VALVE AND RUBBER GROMMET FROm THE VALVE COVER AND LOOK THROUGH THE HOLE AT THE INTERNAL SHEET METAL BAFFLE. THE OLD

STYLE VALVE COVER BAFFLE HAS A 3/16" DIAMETER HOLE IN THE 5:00 O'CLOCK POSITION AS YOU LOOK THROUGH THE PCV HOLE. VALVE

COVERS FITTING THIS DESCRIPTION MUST BE REPLACED.

5. (ALL 1999-2003). Remove the upper intake and replace only port gaskets (9H486) and isolator bolt assemblies

(9S479). The new isolator bolt assemblies use a rubber material that is green in color, do not use the old isolator bolt

assemblies with the black rubber material (XF2Z-AA). Do not replace any other parts (black or aluminum) or the lower intake

gaskets, (9439 and 9A424/425) or the upper intake clamshell gasket (9461). Refer to Workshop Manual Section 303-01, Intake

Manifold-Upper.

6. (ALL 1999-2003). While the upper intake manifold is removed, check the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) orifices

that are pressed into each primary port of the lower intake manifold. If any of the orifices are plugged with soot, clean

and unplug them with a pick and solvent.

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: NONE

SUPERSEDES: 00-21-8, 03-4-7

WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under The Provisions Of Bumper To Bumper Warranty Coverage And Emissions Coverage And Emissions Warranty Coverage

highlifesipper wrote:

that link above is bogus somehow. try this one.

http://members.fortunecity.com/donkeytrader/TSB_03-16-1.html

I think your conversation with the Ford dealer strengthens my belief that the valve cover is NOT nessesary.

Sounds like they are stepping over their words to avoid the word "defect", we all know the original valve cover is being replaced because of a design defect that should be covered by Ford. Unfortunately Ford has a good money maker on service and parts for this problem.

I still do not know what the design change is. With the exception of the elimination of the 3/8" hole at 5 o'clock. Perhaps I am too stubborn but I can not see this as a problem worth replacing the valve cover.

highlifesipper wrote:

Design change sounds a heck of a lot better than the other "D" word. DEFECT. Design change sounds like Ford is looking out for the well being of it's customers by providing a new and improved valve cover. What a bunch of bull. But if you think about it, what would you do if you knew you messed up? Probably not be so quick to be honest about the defect. Especially when a $500 dollar charge is mentioned in the sentence before or after the "new design" explanation. They surely wouldn't want to say "$500", and "Ford defect" in the same sentence.

I still do not know what the design change is. With the exception of the elimination of the 3/8" hole at 5 o'clock. Perhaps I am too stubborn but I can not see this as a problem worth replacing the valve cover.


From what I understand, the position and size of the hole allowed oil to splash up into the baffle area. The purpose behind the baffle int he first place is to allow air flow while keeping oil away from the the PCV port where it would get sucked up and into the manifold.

That sounds like a design flaw to me...

Anyhoo, so the oil coats the upper manifold, causes hella deterioration of the rubber boots for the vacuum lines which ultimately leads to overall drop in vacuum, though still within the "good" range.

That sounds like a design flaw to me...



Highlifesipper wrote:

You said it, Dangerous One! I took the TSB that the dealer gave me last night to a local/private mechanic that was recommended to me by an older friend of mine who used to be a Ford mechanic/service writer but recently retired. By chance I happened to run into this old friend of mine today at my work. I told him about my problem and he wasn't aware of the defect, but he quickly understood as I started to explain. He took a look at the TSB I had and told me to take it to the mechanic mentioned above. The mechanic got me the parts I needed (minus the new valve cover) for a total of $69. $69 and about 3 hours of my time is a lot better than $500 by anyone's standard. I'm doing the fix this weekend and I'll post back with my progress.

I am getting ready for my swap out as well but let me know how yours goes it said in the report you needed to reprogram the cpu. let me know if you have yours reprogramed. I may not change my valve cover if yours works out, but have notice a little oil in the pcv valve hose.
Nothing i have not seen in other cars but again it is a plastic manifold or part plastic.Thats about as bad as plastic radiators.

Anyone else uncomfortable with the PCM reprogram. The reprogram prevents the associated pinging that results from the carbon buildup. So I'm assuming the reprogram retards timing, maybe just in certain situations, that will probably prevent pinging but at the expense of MPG and performance.

Also as far as the new valve cover goes, I think it probably reduces the oil passthrough to some extent but does not prevent it entirely. If it prevented the problem entirely then the 2001 and newer Windstars wouldn't have the same P0171/P0174 issues since they came with the redesigned valve cover, but they do have the problem. Maybe just not as quickly with the new valve cover.

I did replace my valve cover on my 2000 in hopes that it might delay the repair for a while.