Isolator Bolts

I am abouit to change my isolator bolts on my 99 Windstar. I plan to only remove the upper- upper intake to expose the bolts. I consider the manifold to be 3 separate parts on my vehicle. I am not going to worry about the port seals, fuel line regulator, valve cover or PCM re-programme at this point so in effect I am doing a bit of the TSB that corrects these design faults.

The three parts of the intake are:

1) Upper-upper - Upper portion of what is the upper intake
2) Upper-lower- Lower portion of the upper intake
3) Lower - Aluminium

Here are a couple of questions:

1) Is the throttle bolted to the upper-upper or only to the upper-lower (oxymoron)? I am not sure but it seems like it may only be bolted to the lower part of the upper manifold and I may not need to touch the throttle body to remove the upper-upper.

2) Is the gasket between the two parts of the upper manifold reusable?

3) What is the colour of the rubber on the updated (latest design) isolator bolts?

4) Is there anyway tro know for certain that I need to replace these bolts besides actually opening up the manifold?

5) What is the colour of the replacement valve cover included in the TSB that calls for the iolsator bolt change.


Thanks a bunch

1) Is the throttle bolted to the upper-upper or only to the upper-lower (oxymoron)? I am not sure but it seems like it may only be bolted to the lower part of the upper manifold and I may not need to touch the throttle body to remove the upper-upper.

- I don't remember removing the TB on mine but if I did, it was just a matter of unbolting it. No adjustments hasd to be made when reattaching...

2) Is the gasket between the two parts of the upper manifold reusable?

- Yes.

3) What is the colour of the rubber on the updated (latest design) isolator bolts?

- Green.

4) Is there anyway tro know for certain that I need to replace these bolts besides actually opening up the manifold?

- No. You can't see the old isolators until you split the manifold.

5) What is the colour of the replacement valve cover included in the TSB that calls for the iolsator bolt change.

- Silver (unpainted).

Thanks Adbradley,

It sounds like you did the procedure on your Windstar. Assuming that you did did you only remove the upper-upper and thus did not replace the port seals?

I feel the port seals are a "just in case" and so Ford spells it out in the TSB. Worst case is I have to go back and do them later. Removal of the upper-upper seems like a much smaller job than the upper and lower and so I will not have invested too much time if I need to do the port seals later.

The throttle body looks like it is only connected to the bottom and I am more worried about needing a gasket then anything else.

I did the repair about a year ago and it has run fine ever since. Once you get the upper-upper manifold off, the lower comes out rather easily. Only the isolator bolts are holding it in. When I pulled the lower-upper off, I noticed the port sdeals were blackend and slightly burnt due to the gases escaping causing the CEL to light. Replacing $3 worth of seals was worth it to me not to have to tear the engine apart again. I would replace the seals and the bolts and be done with it. Make sure you don't drop any bolts down into the lower manifold. It's arela job to get them back out (Don't ask) :)

I don't remember there being a gasket on the throttle body but if there was, it was an o-ring. The only gaskets I bought were the port seals...

On the '99, there is for the intake manifold:
1. A plastic "upper"(actually a two-part assembly... but you won't fully understand this until some disassembly).
2. A plastic "spacer" (that the throttle body attaches to). This part is held in place by the infamous "isolator bolts".
3. An aluminum "lower" ... that includes the infamous EGR jets (ports) and also the Intake Manifold Runners (absolutely useless in my opinion).

DRW1000- I have not done it to my 2001 (yet), but it looks like the top comes off really easy. Just a matter of removing the hex bolts from around it's perimeter & off it comes. I have heard it has a reusable "O" ring type seal that sits in a groove. Once the top is off, you should be able to remove/replace each isolator bolt one at a time, as to not disturb the position of the upper intake in relation to the lower intake. Having the top off is probably a good time to give the EGR jets a cleaning.
G/luck
Joel

Thanks Gents,

The reason I wanted to only replace the bolts is because it looks like I can do the job without removing the cowl..... Anyone who has gone more deeper into the engine has suggested the cowl must come off. It is starting to get cold here in Toronto so I want to spend as little time as possible scraping my knuckles.

By the way where does the intake leak when the bolts are loose due to the rubber deteriorating? Is it the port seal area?

highlifesipper wrote:

I think I have to do this same job on my 2001 windstar. The CEL came on and I took it into Ford. Spent $100 for them to tell me the code they found. I think it was 171 or something. I asked what does that mean. They said in lamens terms you have a vacuum leak in the left bank and they have to replace the "isolator bolts", some o-rings [(6) of them] and what I consider the valve cover gasket. They called this something else. It was going to be $200 for parts and $300 for labor. I figured I could probably do it myself. So I looked under the hood and found the valve cover. It's being held down w/ (14) bolts. I thought these were the famous "isolator bolts". After reading this thread I'm guessing these (14) bolts just hold the valve cover down and are not the isolator bolts. Driving home tonight the van almost stalled at a red light. I think the supposed bad o-rings and isolator bolts are causing this. It's time I started digging into this so I have some questions:

1. What is the TSB?

2. Is it OK to take off the valve cover just to get a look and then put it back?

3. Is there a book out there for the "do it yourselfer" for the 2001 Windstar?

Thanks
Mike
highlifesipper

I have a copy of the TSB that I would be happy to send to you. The codes that prompt the TSB fix are P0171/P0174 - Left and Right intake leaks. I think the TSB states that if one has these codes AND has no other drivability issues that the TSB be performed. Usually one will get one code before the other. Your drivability issue may in fact be due to the leak. I am not positive that the TSB covers 2001 but I think it does.

The TSB involves the following:

1) Replace the 6 port seals (o - rings) betwwen the plastic upper intake and the alumimium lower intake.
2) replace the isolator bolts that hold the upper to the lower. These bolts have a rubber "lock washer" that deteriorates over time due to the oil that is introduced via the EGR system. The bolts have been re-designed with green (?) rubber that is more resistant to the deteriorization.
3) Clean the 6 apprx 1/8" EGR ports in the intake manifold.
4) Replace the fuel pressure vacuum regulator. This may be loose due to oil contamination.
5) Replace the Left (front) valve cover. There is a small hole in the baffle near the PCV valve that apparently lets oil through to the EGR system. The new design does not have this hole.
6) Re-program the PCM- This cannot be done at home but most people do not bother with this.

My opinion is as follows:
1), 2) and 3) - should be done at the same time as the same disassmebly steps apply to all 3.
4) - I would only do if the hose (an inverted U shaped hose from the intake to the fuel line) is loose.
5) - I would not replace the valve cove simply to block a small hole. I may plug it with a nut and bolt (locked so it does not come loose) or a rivet or something. I do not know if the gasket is re-usable but it can be removed to look at it. Of course you will need a new gasket if the old one is one-time use only. You do not need to remove it to check for the hole however as you can see it throught the PCV valve hole. You can replace the valve cover anytime.
6) I am not going to bother with this.

There are DIY books including Haynes, a subscription to alldata or Ford shop manuals.

You will have to decide for yourself how comfortable you are with these sorts of repairs. This TSB is not hard but one needs to know things like the importance of Torquing bolts and whether the gaskets are good or not. If someone has never turned a bolt I would not recommend it.

There is a lot of info on this site. Just do a search under 171, 174 or TSB XXXXXX.

Many on this site have done this repair and most are very willing to offer advice and much of it is good advice. Research before digging into the job.

You do not have to remove the cowl to do this repair. Many others have removed the cowl but I chose not to. You have to manuever the upper half of the manifold out with a little patience, but it will come out. I think it took me about 2 hours to perform all of the TSB, except the PCM. I never had mine reprogrammed and the van has run much better after performing the other steps. No more stalling and that hideous pinging is gone too. Drove it about 800 miles pinging the whole way before I found out the cause. I just figured I was using the wrong gas...

Thnaks adbradley,

I was looking at my engine yesterday and it does look like all of the upper-upper bolts are easy enough to remove without removing the cowl.

I suppose that once that is off then the isolator bolts are lower in the engine and the cowl will not really be near it enough to interfere.

You got it. Once you get the upper half out, you'll see how easy it is to get to the bottom half...

DRW1000 and adbradley. You guys are saints to the true spirit of the message board. Because of your posts I have a better understanding of what I'm up against. I'll be doing more google searches for the tsb and the codes. I feel I can do this myself now. I'll also check out "alldata" and should buy a book even if it does have to be Haynes. I wish Bentley publishers had one for my specific model (01 windstar). One more thing. Would you mind going into a little more detail on this:

DRW100 wrote:
"I would not replace the valve cover simply to block a small hole."

What hole has to be blocked? I don't understand. Is this hole a manufacturer mistake, and now it needs to be plugged?

DWR100 wrote:
"I may plug it with a nut and bolt or a rivet or something."

Did Ford come out with a (modified/new) valve cover that blocks this hole off? And instead of buying the (modified/new) valve cover, you just save the buck and plug it with a blot or something?

DWR1000 wrote:
"You do not need to remove it to check for the hole"

Does this mean that this infamous hole may not be on my engine, and you are suggesting I check to see if I have this hole? And If this hole does not exist on my engine I therefore do not have to plug?

DWR wrote:
"you can see it (infamous hole) through the PCV valve hole"

I'm pretty sure I should be able to find this PCV valve hole and take a look inside with a flashlight. I think that me doing this will turn on a light bulb or two inside my head, and I will better understand what hole you're talking about.

I will reply back to this thread with my findings for the sake of the poor souls like me with no money and little experience with the newer computer controlled vehicles. This makes me realize that the ECC vehicles of today are not going to go away. I need to really dig in and learn about them. To make it easier, I should concentrate on the car I have, a 2001 Windstar. I love to read and research. I could deal with reading a book about my van from front to back, but I want to make sure the book I read is a good one. Does anyone have a suggestion on what "the authority" or "the Bible" would be for the Windstar? Is it the Haynes, "alldata" or some sort of Ford manual that is readily available to the public? Yeah and please don't forget about my questions concerning "the hole".

"Great communication makes a great automotiveforms.com"

Thanks
Mike
highlifesipper ;{)>

I don't own a manual for my Windstar. I've performed the intake / valve cover TSB, replaced the steering rack and troubleshooting numerous front end problems using only the information on Alldata. It has all of the actual Ford tech info concerning your particular vehicle and it is very in-depth. I highly recommend using their info to perform any repairs.

If you have a black valve cover, it most likely has the hole in question. If you remove the PCV valve, look around and if you see a hole, you probably have the valve cover in question. The new cover is silver (unpainted) if you're wondering...

While shopping for references, you may want to check out helminc.com for Ford (and other manfgrs) elect diagrams and shop manuals. The shop manual is in two volumes. Included is a separate Powertrain control/emissions diagnosis service manual. The books are model-year specific.

Highlifesipper,

Ah yes the hole.

Obviously I did not explain it well.

The valve cover on the bank closest to the front of the vehicle has an opening with a rubber grommet for the PCV valve. The PCV valve then routes to the intake and combustable fumes are drawn off the inners of the engine and are burned within the combustion chambers. (I think I incorrectly stated that the fumes enter the EGR- Not true). Anyway inside the valve cover underneath the PCV valve opening is a piece of sheet metal welded to the inside of the valve cover. This is supposed to prevent oil from being sucked in the PCV valve (and ultimately into the intake). There is however a small (3/8" or so) hole in this piece of sheet metal that supposively lets oil through and into the PCV valve and then to the intake.

When the oil enters the intake it deteriorates the rubber on the isolater bolts causing intake leaks along the port seals (and the CEL). It also forms a hardened crud on the EGR ports due to the hot exhaust fumes and clogs them causing a different set of troubles. The oil can also loosen the vacuum regulator hose....

The fix of course is the famous TSB we all know and love. It states that one should replace the port seals (where the intake leak occurs), replace the bolts with a newer type that uses different rubber, replace the fuel vacuum regulator line, re-program the PCM to compensate for pinging and to replace the valve cover with a new design that does not have the small 3/8" hole.

I am skeptical that the hole is responsible. but the thinking I suppose is that the oil can be splashed straight through the hole and into the PCV valve whereas the large openings on the other 2 or 3 sides of the baffle do not contribute.

I doubt I would replce the valve cover simply to eliminate this hole since I think one would be able to carefully select a method to plug this hole using a nut and bolt (with a cotter pin or something to ensure it will not loosen, or a pop rivet, silicone sealent (high temp).....

Detection of the hole involves removing the PCV and the rubber grommet and looking througb the opening to the 5 (??) o'clock position.

The TSB does indicate how to check.

That is the theory behind the infamous hole.

Good luck................Let us know how you make out or if you have any other questions. This forum is worth its weight in gold

Highlifesipper wrote:

Your damn right, DRM1000. This forum is the bomb, baby. I'm glad I decided to research the problem myself when the Ford dealership told me it would be a $500 fix.

I completely understand the deal now. Although it sounds to me like this is a recall thing. Like a manufacturer defect that ford is responsible for fixing. Especially since the TSB concerning this supposedly states that this hole is allowing oil to get into the intake. And from what I understand there's a new valve cover out there without the hole.

Having said this I think that Ford should replace the bolts, cover, seals, hose, reprogram and anything else that goes along with this TSB at NO CHARGE.

It's doesn't sound like this is the case being that most of the people that have replied to this thread are doing it themselves to save the money.

Has anyone tried to get Ford to do this for FREE?

And

Does anyone have a comment or concern pertaining to this question?

highlifesipper wrote:

One more thing. TSB stands for Technical Service Bulletin. I didn't know this a couple of days ago and it was driving me crazy when TSB kept popping up in thread.

Check out this site if you want to see some pictures of what you're likely to encounter. Left hand side has a Pictures link and if you scroll down to the bottom of Page 1, you'll see the start of the pics, continued on page 2...

http://groups.msn.com/FordWindstar

Yeah TSB - Technical Service Bulleitin. I am just a lazy typist.

Ford, and other auto makers, only recall safety related items. No doubt to mitigate chances of lawsuits. For desgin flaws they not only expect you to pay but they make a pretty profit on the parts and labour. Pretty sweet deal for them I would say.

All dealerships have different policies but I have heard of some people getting a bit of a break such as parts for cost.....provided you pay them to install. I simply bite the bullet and buy the parts and do it myself. The dealership closest to my house seems to be a lot higher than other dealerships and I know they are just quoting me list price. Since I live in a big city with a Ford dealer every few miles I will shop around.

One question for someone who has changed the port seals.

What holds them in place while you assemble and tighten the bolts?

The plastic manifold has molded channels around the ports. The seals push into these channels about halfway and mold to the surface when torqued. Check out this pic for more info...

http://groups.msn.com/FordWindstar/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=20

Okay........thanks. I was concerned that they would flop around while tightening. Has anyone thought about using something the "glue" them such as grease or something?

The photo cuts off but is that the throttle body on the right? It looks like one can remove the intake with the throttle attached.

I lubed mine liberally with Vaseline. Figured it would help the seals slide around, and find their best "home", during the torqueing-down.

I left my throttle body and all mech cables hooked-up to the intake spacer ... just rolled it over. Had to disconnect all the electrical connectors and the air filter assembly.