heater problems

Any advice re: this problem with my 99 windstar is appreciated.

Recently, a problem with the heater/ac system has started. There is a steady (1-3 second interval) "thump" (like the noise when you change from zone to zone) coming from the center of the dash, just behind the ac/heat controls. This sound happens regardless of whether the system is on or off, and there is no change between the different zone selections (A/C, floor, defrost,...) If you slide the temperature selector from Hot to Cold, the thump is replaced by a clicking. The temperature selector does not have any resistance to it, and feels like it is sliding freely.

Only cold air is blowing, and it will blow colder when the temp selector is moved to cold, but there is no hot air blowing at all.

Any ideas on what this might be, or how to diagnose the problem?

Thanks

I do not know a answer to your question....but will point out a couple of things to consider when troubleshooting your problem.

Heat.....The coolant ALWAYS flows through the heater core....regardless of any Temp. , fan, or airflow selection.

When you move the Temp. selector from cool to warmer settings.....a signal is sent to move a "Blend" door to move more or less air from a passage that contains the heater core.
In other words....the heater core is always hot....you select how much air will travel over the hot heater core.

The Selector knob determines where the air will flow....defrost, dash vents, floor......and also for MAX air conditioning and regular air conditioning....how much outside air is drawn in.
This is controlled by another door that I will call the "selector" door.

On my '96, Air vacuum from the engine is used to drive many of these functions. The air vacuum originates from the back of the upper intake manifold.....and there is also a "resevour" to hold a constant amount of vacuum to maintain door position when the engine is OFF.

I have not had to mess with my heat / air conditioning controls.....but from reading here....the blend and selector doors can be a pain to get at.

In addition to what Wiswind says:

The noise you hear is likely the actuator trying to move the blend door. On the '99 the blend door actuator is all-electric. The actuator is just in front of the radio... you can usually get a peek at it without removing anything by looking up from the floorboard.

On the '99 there is usually one of two problems:

Problem #1. The blend door actuator has gone "belly-up". Not the worst job in the world to replace, but it will ruin a long afternoon. Some folks have disassembled and repaired the insides of the actuator. But You can get an new up-dated actuator from Ford for about $50.

Problem #2. The plastic blend door has broken. Not all break in the same way, but usually its very bad news. When you investigate the problem #1 above, you will determine if the blend door is broken. Ford has a $1200 - $1300 solution ... as they replace the whole ac/heater plenum assembly ... much labor. I have discovered a way to cut the plenum in a "safe" fashion, and remove/repair the blend door.

Do some investigation and let us know what situation you have.

I found that I can position the temp control lever in one place (warm) where the thumping stops and there is no clicking either - the "thumping"is when the lever is towards warm and clicking is where lever is towards cold.


I reached my hand up under the dash and felt something turning in rhythm with the thumping, it seemed the the end of a rod or something, and it was just barely exposed from inside a plastic "box". It was turning in a "graduated" movement, approx 5-10 degrees at a time, somewhat like the second hand of a pulsar watch.


Greg

Twelve Once,

Thanks for your reply!

This weekend I pulled the radio and heater controlls out - what fun!

The noise is coming from inside the black plastic "ductwork" I assume the AC/Heat plenum - located behind - actually forward - the white plastic box - actuator??? - with the post coming out of it. The post appears to be turning, but it is hard to tell for sure with everything disconnected.

I couldn't go further without removing a large part of the dash and ran out of time.

Does this give you any more info to diagnose the problem and recommend a fix? I DEFINITELY cannot afford the 1200 to replace everything.

THANKS!!!!

Greg

fornarog

You are getting close. Once you get a little more space, you can see if the actuator (white plastic ..a little larger than a pack of cigs) is actually "actuating". Two, or three, screws is all it takes to remove/replace the actuator.

While the actuator is removed, if you see the female square hole (that recieves the actuator) and if you can turn this "blend door" approx 90 degrees, stop-to-stop ... you, my friend, are a lucky person.... you only have the actuator as a problem.

Get back to us with results.

12 Ounce

Thanks! My fingers are crossed!

[QUOTE=12Ounce]In addition to what Wiswind says:

The noise you hear is likely the actuator trying to move the blend door. On the '99 the blend door actuator is all-electric. The actuator is just in front of the radio... you can usually get a peek at it without removing anything by looking up from the floorboard.

On the '99 there is usually one of two problems:

Problem #1. The blend door actuator has gone "belly-up". Not the worst job in the world to replace, but it will ruin a long afternoon. Some folks have disassembled and repaired the insides of the actuator. But You can get an new up-dated actuator from Ford for about $50.

Problem #2. The plastic blend door has broken. Not all break in the same way, but usually its very bad news. When you investigate the problem #1 above, you will determine if the blend door is broken. Ford has a $1200 - $1300 solution ... as they replace the whole ac/heater plenum assembly ... much labor. I have discovered a way to cut the plenum in a "safe" fashion, and remove/repair the blend door.

12OUNCE,
I'd be very interested in hearing how to cut the plenum to remove the blend door.
The actuator in my 1999 Winstar is working fine, but the blend door is definitely broken at the D-shaped slot. I removed the lower half of the plenum and dropped the heater core down just low enough to get my hand in: brought back a 2" piece of black plastic. Basically broke right through the "D" I assumed I would have to remove the heater core entirely to get the door out. Any help would be appreciated.

12 Ounce

Thanks! My fingers are crossed!

12Ounce -

It was my lucky day, the actuator is shot, but the door is fine. I "set" the actuator to stay hot and put it back in - after disconnecting the wires to it, so at least we'll have some heat that we can control by turning the unit on/off. Only problem is now the zone selector isn't responding, it is set on defrost. I hope this will correct itself when I replace and hook up the new actuator.

You mention an updated/better actuator, how do I get this instead of another one of the original?

Thanks for you assistance.

Greg

fornarog

Go right now and buy a Lotto ticket!

Any actuator (XF2H-19E611-??) you get from a Ford dealer will be the latest and greatest. If you have the rear ac and are willing to give up the "mode" (up/dwn) function in the rear... you can just disconnect and steal that actuator. Your model has three elect actuators that are all the same part number.

EDIT/UPDATE: Ford is NOT using the same part number for the three actuators (on vans with rear heat/ac). Therefore the rear actuator/motors are probably not useable up front.

windwoes

Don't waste your money on the Lotto.

Yes, the heater coil has to come all the way out to get access to the bottom of the plenum for cutting. By the way, I think I remember one or two screws being at the front (against the firewall) of that plastic distribution "pan" that goes below the heater coil.

If you want to send me a private message and include a postal address, I can send you a few paper copies of the images I made while doing the repair.

Keep up with that piece of the blend door. You must repair the original blend door. Even though Ford has re-engineered the blend door--- the only way you can buy one is inside an entire new plenum assembly.

windwoes

You are correct. I took a look at the old photo of my repaired blend door and I see that the hole is, indeed, "D" shaped ... not "square" as I wrote earlier.

Man I'm so glad I found this thread. My 99 Windstar has the exact same problem. Thumping and clicking. The heat even worked for a while...if you could put up with the thumping. Now nothing works but the thumping is still there.

Does anyone know if this is caused by a shutoff switch not actuating in the actuator...or if the blend door is trashed? It seems to me that something has to tell the blend door when it's at the end of it's travel, and maybe that something is outta whack.

Anyway...I hate my 99 Windstar, and can't wait till we can afford another vehicle. To date we've spend $1000's on intakes, power steering, rack and pinons, etc.

Bob

Any advice re: this problem with my 99 windstar is appreciated.

Recently, a problem with the heater/ac system has started. There is a steady (1-3 second interval) "thump" (like the noise when you change from zone to zone) coming from the center of the dash, just behind the ac/heat controls. This sound happens regardless of whether the system is on or off, and there is no change between the different zone selections (A/C, floor, defrost,...) If you slide the temperature selector from Hot to Cold, the thump is replaced by a clicking. The temperature selector does not have any resistance to it, and feels like it is sliding freely.

Only cold air is blowing, and it will blow colder when the temp selector is moved to cold, but there is no hot air blowing at all.

Any ideas on what this might be, or how to diagnose the problem?

Thanks

Man I'm so glad I found this thread. My 99 Windstar has the exact same problem. Thumping and clicking. The heat even worked for a while...if you could put up with the thumping. Now nothing works but the thumping is still there.

Does anyone know if this is caused by a shutoff switch not actuating in the actuator...or if the blend door is trashed? It seems to me that something has to tell the blend door when it's at the end of it's travel, and maybe that something is outta whack.

Anyway...I hate my 99 Windstar, and can't wait till we can afford another vehicle. To date we've spend $1000's on intakes, power steering, rack and pinons, etc.

Bob

Like it says above, probably the actuator. i could take mine out w/o removing the radio. Not even a 1 hour job. Test the door to see if it swings free. If so, the new actuator is about $50 at the dealer. easy to install. Now read '99 LX 3.8l Bad Engine Noise Identified and you will see what i recently have gone through with this marvel of poor engineering and manufacture. I could give you also a long list of problems I have had. I don't call myself Windywoes for nothing.

I found this thread to be helpful in solving my heater problem. I used it as aguide, but still fumbled around quite a bit before getting to the root of the problem. I would like to share details of what I discovered during my repair.

I replaced the actuator. While it was off I moved the internal mixing door in the "D" slot with a screw driver.

Ultimately, the problem with the acuator is because teeth have been stripped from the smallest gear on a compound gear wheel (a gear with a littler gear aroung the shaft), smaller than a dime, and probably worth less than a quarter. You see stuff like this in kids' toys. I paid $56 for a new actuator and tore into the old one to discover stripped teeth. Had I brought the vehicle to the dealership, they probably would have replaced the whole heater system for $1500.

The rhythmic thumping is the result of the mixing door, which lays on the heater core in cold mode, being lifted slightly and then dropping back when the missing gear teeth go by. The clicking is the sound of the actuator itself when the gear teeth are missed and the circuitry doesn't know to stop the turning.

I would advise anyone who experiences these characteristic sounds coming from behind the fully electronic heater control panel, to not freak out about something being wrong with the internal and seemingly inaccessible mixer door, and simply replace the actuator.

thank you all so very much for all your help in getting HEAT back into our vehicle. was looking at yet another costly repair and saw your comments, suggestions, and insight on this site and i fixed the actuator myself for under 60 bucks. you all answered our prayers. it was gonna be a COLD winters drive because 1k is NOT in our budget for repairs.
thanks again.
i did attach a picture of the inside of the actuator where the "gear" (ha ha ha) is missing it's teeth. not sure how well you will be able to see it but i guess there's not much to see anyway since they are MISSING.

I just replaced my actuator as well. Thanks to this thread, I was able to do it myself but the cheapest one I could find for a 2001 Windstar was $150. The Dealer wanted $450!

You may have automatic temperature control. ??

This feature was not available in '99.

Nope, no auto temp control. I have the regular hot/cold knob. And inside the only thing wrong was the little reducer gear. What a rip!

I'm gonna check the price at my dealer in a couple of days. $150 sounds "double" or more ...

Too bad I couldn't just buy that one little gear. Somebody must sell gears like that????? Any ideas?

I am soo Glad i found this site and this posting.
I hate my windsatr but i do have to get things wiorking properly before I dump it on someone else My heater and o2 sensors are giving me greif now. Yhe clicity thump thing.

I just want to thank everyone who took the time to post the problem and the repair. I want to tell whoever is in the same predicament what I did to get heat. After reading everything on this forum about the problem:
I removed that plastic cubbyhole below the radio and a metal frame under it.
I then was able to get at the actuater and remove it.
I took it apart and sure enough the small gear was chewed off on one side.
I took the plastic piece that has the gears on it that turns to open the door and removed it from the actuator.
I took that piece and stuck it in the hole that it goes in when it protrudes from the actuator.
With that piece in place, I was able to put the fan on and then turn that piece to the left to open the door and get heat.
When you turn the fan off the door closes, so it's not a permanent fix, but it will do until I find the part.
To make it a little easier, I took the piece out again and drilled a small hole in one corner, put a heavy twine through it and now am able to control the heat while driving.
I went to one garage, and the guy said he would have to remove the whole dash board. I'm on social security, see ya later.
Thanks again for the help guys.

Newbie here with a 1999 windstar with no front heat.

In attempting to solve this problem, I've followed this thread closely.

I got to the point of removing the white blend door actuator unit.

Peering into the 1/2 inch hole in the plenum that the white rotating actuator shaft goes into, I do not see much of anything. I certainly do not see a "D" slot to turn manually.

Is it possible that the blend door itself has fallen into the plenum?

In summary, I have the actuator motor out, but am not sure what to next shor tof taking it to the dealer and paying big bucks.

Thscott, I'm almost 100% sure that you have a broken blend door.

If you do searchs here, you will find that some of us have done a c-section on the plenum ... removed the door pieces, repaired, replaced. Costs less than $20 for the DIY'r (who already has a rotary grinder).

Hey guys:

I have a 99 windstar which seems have the exact same problem. However, I was not able to get the radio unit out even with the ping tool. It seems that the radio unit is stuck there no matter how hard I tried.

Did you guys run into the same problem? Or, there is something that I should be aware of.

Thanks

thsu

Hey guys:

I have a 99 windstar which seems have the exact same problem. However, I was not able to get the radio unit out even with the ping tool. It seems that the radio unit is stuck there no matter how hard I tried.

Did you guys run into the same problem? Or, there is something that I should be aware of.

Thanks

thsu

The radio came out easily once I bought and used the correct removal tool at WalMart. I initially tried doing it with cut coat hanger but had no success. Even with the radio out and the AC/Heat controller out, it's still not easy to get at the blend door actuator as it is behind a metal bracket that I could not remove.

Buy the little "U" tool for the FORD radio...it has little "knobs" on the ends.....also....wiggle things around a bit...if it does not come out. I seem to remember the instructions on the package for the tool said to kind of place pressure on the "U"'s sticking out......in toward the center....or out away from the center......Can't remember which (sorry!!!)
Also....if the radio seems stuck....try pressing in on it......to free the clips...in case there is an outward pressure on them......

I have taken them out with both a coat hanger and with the "U" tool. It is much easier with the "U" tool. I got it at AutoZone, took 5 seconds to get the radio out.

Newbie here with a 1999 windstar with no front heat.

In attempting to solve this problem, I've followed this thread closely.

I got to the point of removing the white blend door actuator unit.

Peering into the 1/2 inch hole in the plenum that the white rotating actuator shaft goes into, I do not see much of anything. I certainly do not see a "D" slot to turn manually.

Is it possible that the blend door itself has fallen into the plenum?

In summary, I have the actuator motor out, but am not sure what to next shor tof taking it to the dealer and paying big bucks.

I first took that actuator to a couple of parts stores and they didn't even know what it was. I haven't tried any dealers yet, so I have no idea what it cost. But I live in Massachusetts, and it's very cold here right now.

I took the actuator apart and removed the piece that has some gears attached to the end and the other end has a shaft that goes into that hole when it is installed. With that piece, I'm able to turn that door inside to get heat.

The problem with that is, It's hard to reach, and you can't do it when you're driving. The other problem is, the door will only stay in place when the fan is on, so when it gets to hot in the car and you turn the fan off the door goes back to its position.

What I did to get a temporary fix is drill a small hole in one end of that white piece and attach a strong piece of twine so I can pull it to get heat.

This is crazy, but you do what you have to do. Good luck with the part replacement. If and when I find one, I will post the cost.

WOW!!! Am I ever glad I foud this site.

My wife came home from work at 8pm last night, wiht freezing cold hands, to tell me there was no heat in our 2000 Ford Windstar. I did a search on Yahoo for "Ford-Windstar-Heater-thump-" and found this site. I went to an auto parts store and got the Ford stereo removel kit (the two U shaped things). I pulled out the stereo. I could see the white box everyone is talking about, but couldn't quite get to it. I took off the front black part of the dash(not that hard, just a few hex nuts). I had to go to walmart to get a long hex nut socket screwdriver, and then I removed the blend door motor (fords words, not mine). I took it apart and saw the missing teeth on one of the gears. That was it. I wen in to Ford with the little white box, and they gave me a new one for $60. I installed the new one, low and behold--HEAT!!!!!!!! I put everything back together, and voila!!!!! Good to go. It was actually warm today, but supposed to be much colder tommorrow. Glad I did it. No telling how much money I saved doing this myself. THANK YOU guys so very much.
~Brian

Bizmark32/Brian...
Thanks for posting. I have a 2000 windstar doing the same thing (been doing it for quite some time). I'm going to stop by AutoZone on the way home to get the stereo removal tool and hopefully it will go as easy as your message makes it sound.

I found this thread to be helpful in solving my heater problem. I used it as aguide, but still fumbled around quite a bit before getting to the root of the problem. I would like to share details of what I discovered during my repair.

I replaced the actuator. While it was off I moved the internal mixing door in the "D" slot with a screw driver.

Ultimately, the problem with the acuator is because teeth have been stripped from the smallest gear on a compound gear wheel (a gear with a littler gear aroung the shaft), smaller than a dime, and probably worth less than a quarter. You see stuff like this in kids' toys. I paid $56 for a new actuator and tore into the old one to discover stripped teeth. Had I brought the vehicle to the dealership, they probably would have replaced the whole heater system for $1500.

The rhythmic thumping is the result of the mixing door, which lays on the heater core in cold mode, being lifted slightly and then dropping back when the missing gear teeth go by. The clicking is the sound of the actuator itself when the gear teeth are missed and the circuitry doesn't know to stop the turning.

I would advise anyone who experiences these characteristic sounds coming from behind the fully electronic heater control panel, to not freak out about something being wrong with the internal and seemingly inaccessible mixer door, and simply replace the actuator.

Thanks 12ounce, Windywoes and Timechief! All your posts, advice, photos and details are helping me to work my way through the same situation.

-PopI (that's Popeye, not Poppy!) :lol:

I have this same problem with my 2000 Windstar. Hopefully it is just the actuator. That will be much cheaper to replace since I have to fix the dreaded front wheel squeak as well.

Does anyone have a schematic of the heating assembly as my blend door has fallen to the bottom of the plenum. I would like to simply jerry-rig something to get heat without spending another dime trying to properly fix my Windstar (engine/tranny/electrical/now this) due to the problems I've had in the past six months costing me thousands. The actuator's fine but when I peer into the hole, I see nothing but the back of the assembly about a foot back (I believe). I did play around inside gently with a wooden dowl to see if anything moves and got partial heat for a bit but I don't want to do any damage poking around in uncharted territories. A 12 volts ceramic heater will hardly make a dent when it gets cold here (Canada). Would taking the number three fuse from the engine compartment stop the A/C from blowing colder air when I try to use the defrost?:banghead:

Man I'm so glad I found this thread. My 99 Windstar has the exact same problem. Thumping and clicking. The heat even worked for a while...if you could put up with the thumping. Now nothing works but the thumping is still there.

Does anyone know if this is caused by a shutoff switch not actuating in the actuator...or if the blend door is trashed? It seems to me that something has to tell the blend door when it's at the end of it's travel, and maybe that something is outta whack.

Anyway...I hate my 99 Windstar, and can't wait till we can afford another vehicle. To date we've spend $1000's on intakes, power steering, rack and pinons, etc.

Bob

I hate FORDS! But they are affordable and I can work on them. I wish that I could afford Nissans.

You folks who have the broken blend doors (not just broken actuator/motors) may want to get on the following thread:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=522563&highlight=Phordguy

My wife experienced similar symptoms today with our 2001 Windstar. She reported hearing a knocking sound coming from inside the dashboard area for a little while, every 1-2 seconds, there was a "bad smell", then the heat started blowing cool. She was able to repeat the knocking sound later in the day by turning the heater back on, but I haven't been able to replicate the sound since then. When I turn it on now, it sounds normal but blows cold air.

I've taken everything apart, and have determined that the problem is not the actuator. I've disconnected the screws holding the actuator in place, and left the wiring cable hooked up to it, and pulled the actuator rod out of the D-shaped hole. I then attempt to work the heat on and off using the temperature control, and can see that the actuator rod does not turn at all - whether I have the old actuator hooked up, or the new one. I can manually engage the blend door (using the rod from the old actuator, after removing it from the actuator) and turn it to the position that allows heat to flow to the car.

Does anyone know what fuse # controls the actuator on the 2001 Windstar? Aside from changing fuses, does anyone have any other ideas why the actuator won't do its thing?

Thanks in advance. I know this is a really old thread, hope someone is still watching.

Steve

I'm not familiar with your vehicle but the wiring diagram for the 2001 shows the actuator as being fed via fuse #10 (15A, located in the Central Junction Box).

If you have access to a multimeter, the voltage conditions at the actuator are quite straightforward, and you should be able to check them relatively easily.
Pin 7 receives 12V on the red/black wire when the ignition switch is in the Run position.
Pin 3 receives a variable-voltage control signal on the grey/yellow wire, from the driver's temperature control.
Pin 8 connects to ground via a black wire, which can be confirmed by a continuity check using the meter's resistance range.
I think you'll find the fuse will be good, because it feeds a whole host of other circuits besides the actuator, and you'd be reporting multiple faults if it had blown. If the fuse does indeed prove to be ok then a multimeter would pretty much be a necessity to proceed further, because the next step would depend on which of those three elements is missing - the pin 7 supply voltage, pin 3 control voltage, or the pin 8 ground.

The acutator is quick and easy to access and once you have it out, it does open up and you can visually inspect the crappy plastic gears. This is a common failure item. The problem of the air coming out the defrost only is an idicator that there is a vacuum leak or no conenction tot he vacuum accumulator box under the hood. On my 2001 the accumulator box is on the passenger side, under the cowel. It is a black box on the side of the air intake plenun. The vacuum hose is a small 1/8" red plasti line that passes through the firewall and heads to the centre console. If the box is not connected, each time the van is off, the gate will fall by gravity to the defrost position. Once the engine starts, if the hose is not leaking, the gat will move back to the position where the dash controls indicate. Basically the box just holds the gat in position while the engine is off. If you have leak it will also flall the defrost position because no vacuum can be held in the acumulator.

Thank you to all who posted ideas on this problem. I had the clicking and thumping in my windstar since April and noticed that it stopped when set to a specific temperature. Since it was set on cool and needed AC, didn't give it much thought. Now that it has dropped below freezing, I needed to do something, so when I explained the problem to a friend, he said it was probably my "actuator". Not knowing what that was I entered "Windstar heat actuator" and found this thread. After reading it, I was able to locate the actuator by removing the very bottom section of the center dash console and looked up to find the "white box". I found that if I moved the heat selector to the hottest position (where it clunked the loudest) I could see that the shaft was trying to turn unsuccesfully. Then, using a pair of pliers, I was able to turn the shaft counter-clockwise until it stopped making any noise. I now have heat. I did not have to tear the whole dash apart or use any special tools, and I did not have to remove the radio. Granted, the space was small and depite my smaller hands, it was difficult to reach, I found it easier than tearing everything apart. I will likely have to remove more in order to actually replace the actuator, but since I had already called all over town to find that no one had one in stock and in fact could not even order one because the manufactuers are out of stock, I realized that this temporary fix will have to do. :wink:

Timechief and the others above have it right. I am no mechanical wiz, and with the instructions , and a nice YouTUBE video I was able to change out the actuator motor in a couple of hours. Out with the Radio, Remove the heater control panel and lay it to the side, disconnect the actuator, remove and note the location of the D shaped shaft, plug in the new one, turn on the key and use the heater control seclector to get the new one positioned into the same location as the old one. Put ever thing back together. Took some extensions and 7MM & 8MM sockets. Worked like a charm - Thanks to all who saved me between 600 - 1300 at the dealer!!

Guys! I found a kit that repairs the broken blend door problem with no dash removal and takes about an hour. The kit is called the HeaterTreater and they have installation videos on youtube. check it out: www.heatertreater.net