Split: Posting Standards

Split from thread "drift style" FD, suggestions. Doing so mucks up all the quotes and smilies.

whats not written properly about that?



get a big wing, ugly body kit, those stupid looking rims that are on ricers, you know Tri stars. lots of graphics, put an air intake on there,

there you have it

whats not written properly about that?

Well lets begin with the bleeding obvious – lack of capitals and sentence structure. I'd heard that literacy was not a strong point with today’s youth, but this is getting ridiculous. Many of us (moderators that is) are appalled with the sudden downturn in writing standards by a large number of members. Disciplinary action is not far around the corner for some.

Please lets not let it get to the stage where we have to start wholesale post deletions and bannings.

Well lets begin with the bleeding obvious – lack of capitals and sentence structure. I'd heard that literacy was not a strong point with today’s youth, but this is getting ridiculous. Many of us (moderators that is) are appalled with the sudden downturn in writing standards by a large number of members. Disciplinary action is not far around the corner for some.

Please lets not let it get to the stage where we have to start wholesale post deletions and bannings.

I dont think many people really care. Where here to discuss car models not grammar, if I wanted that I would have taken English this semester.

I dont think many people really care.

I think you are wrong on that. Personally I don't bother to read posts which don't have any punctuation in them. It's just too hard. I do understand that the form of communication comes from using cell phones for instant messaging - where you want to minimize the number of keys you have to punch. But this is not a cell phone environment so I think different rules (of consideration and politeness) apply.

Also, I want to comment that posts from people for whom English is obviously a second language are usually much easier to read than some of the US/UK kiddy ghetto talk we see here.

I dont think many people really care. Where here to discuss car models not grammar, if I wanted that I would have taken English this semester.

Many people care, I’d go so far as to say most people care. If some individuals want to treat this forum as a chat room then there are other places to do that. If we want to include everybody, we have to write in a way that everybody can understand. The convention that has been chosen by Igor (and that you all agreed to when signing up) is English. Allowance is made for non-English speakers but frankly they are not the issue. Almost without exception they try their best and in many cases put the natural English speakers to shame.

It is all a question of education and respect for others. If people continue to post in kindergarten level grammar or ghetto talk then they are not complying with the AF User guidelines. They are effectively thumbing their noses at AF and all the members who make this a great community. Why should they feel they are above the majority of AF members? Why should they continue to enjoy the privileges of being members?

In short how can we discuss anything without a common language? That language is English, why is it so hard for some people to use it correctly? :disappoin

Respect, fellows. Respect other posters here by giving us the credit of your full attention and interest. To half ass your posts is to show indication of half assed work, how do you think your models will go over here? How do you expect us to respect you or your opinions when you don't respect anyone else?

I dont think many people really care. Where here to discuss car models not grammar, if I wanted that I would have taken English this semester.

Ok, so if you're not going to do anything outside of your best interests, why not take advantage of this opportunity to practice using the language well, and concisely? You're going to have to be able to express yourself professionally, in English, in both written and spoken form whether you like it or not. I can't think of a better opportunity than this forum. You're already talking about what you like, take an extra moment and put in the extra effort to do it properly. You'll be amazed how much you can improve your articulation just by speaking. So, don't take english this semester, but that's no excuse to not use English properly. By not doing so you show how ignorant you really can be; would you show these posts to your professors? To your parents? To employers?

Has this turned into a flame session or something>? I am the first to admit my laziness has gotten the better of me, I tend to not use capitals at the start of a sentence anymore. So flame me if you want. i just dont think this should be an opportunity to flame someone for the lack of punctuation or grammar. This is just my :2cents:. So ignore it if you wish.

Anyway, anymore Q's about the FD drifter dude.
Later, WIDE

Flame session? Why the need to reduce this discussion down to a cheap internet cliché? The standards required on AF are clear. Is it a case of we have to commence floggings until the standards are improved. Or are people adult enough to regulate themselves?

Willimo makes a very good point. Are the sort of people who put half an effort into something as simple as writing a post, the sort of people who are going to make half an effort building a model or anything in life? Is that how you want to be perceived, are those kind of people any use to AF? After all this modelling caper is not just a lark, it's deadly serious man! :)

Anyway, the rules are not negotiable, they are laid down by the Administrator. As a mod it’s my job to keep things running to the rules. Believe me I’m not enjoying this discussion or the dozen or so PMs I’ve sent in the last week about posting standards. I am very appreciative of those people who have responded positively, but also amazed at the ignorance of a few who refuse write legibly in their own native tongue. It is no surprise that there is a direct correlation between the standards of writing people are willing to adopt and the quality of their models. Seems to be the ones who can’t write are not contributing quality to this forum on many levels…

oh well, my english isn't that good. (not my first language) If my english offended someone, please let me know, but don't expect any improvement.

Well put RallyRaider. I know that my posts have often lacked proper spelling, as I rely on my spell check too often. English is also not my first (or even third) language so I apologize for any grammatically or otherwise incoherent posts.

I will try to be more cognizant of this issue from here on.

ywwong & slk320 Your use of the english language far exceeds most of the "English speaking " youth here. You are to be commended.
Rally Raider I am with you on this one.
If you can't communicate properly on an interent forum how do you expect to communicate in the real world? Believe it or not writing skills are still valued by employers.

I understand what everybody is meaning right here. But I don't think you can blame people for grammatically wrong English. Lots of people have another native language. Don't get me wrong, I don't like chat talk here too, but don't be too hard on people who make grammatically wrong posts. I know I make a lot of grammatically foulds as well.

I agree with Willimo totally. Respect eachother. Besides that, lots of people that are participating here are writing english better by the day (me including :D) I'm not going to apologize for my bad english here and there. I'm not blaming anyone else for the same thing as well.

I'm with you too, RallyRaider. (Hope I didn't misspell anything!)

Just a point of clarification, for ywwong, slk320, and Bas Carwash: the issue is not the occasional mistakes in spelling or grammar from people on the boards (everyone makes mistakes typing, I know I do for sure!). Teh ishoo iz d ppl who typ liek dis n think its ok n get mad a t u when u c it and tell them 2 typ bettar bc we all no it iz there rite 2 typ how they want if u dont beleve me it iz in teh constitution right there the 2nd amendment thnk u//

Of course, that is a bit of hyperbole, but that's the idea. It's not the occasional mistakes, is the brazen abuse of the language.

RallyRaider, I couldn't agree with you more. It's beyond me why anyone with a point to be made or information to be shared would spend the time and effort to communicate it in such an unintelligible manner. When you consider that many people on the board are non-English speakers it's even more important to type clearly. Translating between languages is hard enough without putting grammatical obstacles in the way.

On a seperate but related note, Willimo, please provide a warning before starting to type like that. I think my eyes are permanently crossed.

DELETED

In light of Camber's post, 2 posts down, I decided to delete this post.

I'll also add that I don't think anybody should be banned or even have their threads closed simply because of grammar.

I basically am very happy with AF, and the work a few "prominent" members do here, to make it a place where people can still communicate (which is, IIRC a forum! )

I think this opinion is shared by many members, who still like to read something in proper understandable english.
On the other hand there are still members who -be it deliberately or not- tend to neglect the advice and comment made on their "behaviour"; albeit putting up rants, just being absolutely not understandable in their posts and those who keep using big pictures in their banners.

These things have frustrated many, and will probably keep on doing this for a long time, but I ve found a solution, the best way is prolly to just ignore them (using the ignore function), so if you just can't stand them, use the magic button!

hope this all makes sense,
Oli

The first words that came to my mind after reading this thread was simply just "wow". This thread might be the most pointless thread I have seen yet. This is the ONLY forum I have ever surfed that has made such big deals out of stupid bullshit like grammar. Not everyone has a perfect vocabulary, and not every one feels the need to break out the dictionary and find words half this forum can comprehend, which it seems like some people in this forum are doing; not mentioning names.

This is a PLASTIC CAR MODELING FORUM for christ sake. People want answers to their questions, not a lecture on how they're asking for help! Its getting ridiculous, usually I just keep to myself and watch the action.. but this has hit a nerve. I dont even notice half the time what people's grammar is, what do you people expect?

While your at it, you might as well post a thread on how people are making pointless threads that have significance to the topic of this section of the forum.. Because this is one of them!.. and personally, NO ONES GOING TO LISTEN TO YOU! No one is going to change the way they type; this is a model forum not an english class.


And another thing, Supratuner got banned because of his grammar! I believe thats pushin it guy, I highly doubt people noticed if he had bad grammar or not! Its ridiculous! I have talked to him on AIM, he said he has good punctuation, he doesnt use the instant messaging chat that you guys keep talking about, and he said he uses it to the best of his ability. He said some prick kept PMing him telling him his punctuation was'nt correct and it needed to be changed. Joey said from what he had seen there was nothing to change, which I agree with.

I suggest you stop wasting your time trying to get the board to have better grammar and let it be used for what its made for, to get help and share models. No one wants to hear all of this shit.

Have a nice day,
Tom

Well it seems like we have two arguements here. It looks like we'll just have to compromise, dont flame people because of bad grammar - i think the suggestion for the mods to change the font colour to let people know is a good idea.

I can't respect the opinion of anyone who feels good communication skills are worthless. Good communication is important everywhere, yes including a model forum.

The bad spelling can reflect upon the site as well.

I completely agree with Phil, and will back him up 100%. The spelling is getting rediculous. We dont need people to be able to spell 100% correct, but dont spell horribly like a few people do.

Like whats been said, this isnt a grammar forum. But we expect you to capitalize, punctuate, spell correctly, and grammatically correct to you best knowledge.

Personally, reading this whole thread and different peoples reactions to the topic has definitely taught me a lot about the various levels of maturity in this forum.

To the people above who believe it is stupid to berate or flame people because of grammar and spelling, I believe you are entirely correct!

However this is not about something as simple as spelling and grammar. It is part of something larger - communication and having enough respect for others to make yourself easily understood. As I’ve pointed out several times all we can ask is people do their best. AF has a bad reputation in some parts because of the “juvenile” attitudes of a small percentage. Do we want to perpetuate that or should we do something to improve it? AF is a wonderful archive of information to all manner of automotive and modelling enthusiasts. But what use is it if visitors cannot understand what the members have been writing? This is not an exclusive clique, but a worldwide resource. Picking a standard language and sticking to it may not be necessary for a chat with your buddies, but AF is hopefully about more than that

Nobody (that I’m aware of) has had their posts deleted or banned because of spelling/grammar. Hopefully nobody will. Supratuner was not banned because of his grammar, but as a precaution because of another reason. In fact, once that reason has been cleared up chances are he will return.

This whole issue has blown up because people have been asked in a kindly tone (at least I though it was) to try and improve, but have refused to do so. I’m not talking about people with English as a second language. The problem is with 18 or so year olds from the US and other English speaking countries who should be taking the lead instead of dragging the standards down.

As for newbies getting flamed, it is a shame but a part of every message board/forum on the Internet since the whole game began. I’ve often stepped in to try and defend them but sometimes there is no point because they bring it on themselves.

Supratuner got banned because of his grammar!:iagree: (when I began writing, last post was GTMike 400 one...)
I must admit a civilised writing helps non-english natives to understand! :iceslolan It permits to avoid most of the arguments and misunderstandings too.

In the name of all those who are making efforts to write in english -because it's not their native language- I'd like to thank all the people that made the effort not to write the way they speak! That's the first real "C:cool::cool:L" aspect of this forum.

You know, the way you write tells so much about who you are! Grammar faults just shows you weren't so attentive sometimes at school! ( :lol: ) But not being respectfull with language can be understood as not being respectfull to others...

Just imagine the time it took me to write those few sentences! :lol::loser:

(By the way, what means "IMO"? ...:confused::icon16: )

IMO
In My Opinion

or IMHO

In My Humble Opinion

Same , here , François, it's great everybody tries to let others feel at home and share the same passion(or hobby, or mentall illness)

IMO, is In My Opinion...

edit:
Damn I got beat !
Oli

:thumbsup: Great thanks! I'll be able to use it now! :D

To me RallyRaider's last post is the final point of this thread: it couln't have been said better!

why was supratuner banned?? Seriously if its because of grammar then i belive that everyone who speaks other languages should be banned as their grammar isnt good. That is a stupid reason to ban someone.

At least let him know why he was banned...sheesh :eek7:

why was supratuner banned?? Seriously if its because of grammar then i belive that everyone who speaks other languages should be banned as their grammar isnt good. That is a stupid reason to ban someone.

At least let him know why he was banned...sheesh :eek7:
RallyRaider clearly stated that he was not banned for that reason and beyond that its between the mods and Supratuner and really none of your business.
If you are friends with Supratuner then I am sure he will share the info with you when he feels like it.

Okay update on Supratuner for those who care. He has been unbanned. There was some suspicion he and Chris240 were the same person but that now seems not to be the case.

I agree with these grammar standards that should be on every single Forums that exists. We all make simple mistakes when typing and some of us still need some work in sentence structure and use of words. Mistakes like teht, shuold, and ahve are some simple mistakes that i do quite often when i type fast and are just small errors that should be allowed because they are not intentional. I go against the fact of flaming people for slight mistakes or locking Threads that really have meaning to their authors eventhough other Moderators might find them pointless. Believe me if i make a thread it is because i have already researched on that topic and have not found what i wanted.

I will always cooperate with whatever the rules are here since it is a privilage for me to be here and be part of these awesome Forums!

:cool:

Who is Chris240?

Now that i know that i wasnt banned for the grammar mistakes i made earlier, I do want to ask a question, well more of a suggestion. Not bashing on the mods here at AF, but please let people know why they got banned, it will be helpful in the future.

Say what you want about us whiners and our "maturity level." No one is saying this should be a model of diction and Queen's English. But threads like this one right here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=290046) speak for themselves.

That underlined bit is a link.

i can vouch for him RallyRaider ...hes not Chris240. I apologize to you RallyRaider for not reading the posts ahead of making mine :sorry:

Still i dont think grammar should be that big of a deal. As long as you can read it its good enough. On the other hand if its complete junk like ive seen a few times before that is a reason for a warning but not banning...i dont think its serious enough to ban over. But then again its not my choice :icon16:

As long as you can read it its good enough.

I agree, although I'd elaborate - as long as EVERYBODY can read it, it's good enough.

On the other hand if its complete junk like ive seen a few times before that is a reason for a warning but not banning...i dont think its serious enough to ban over. But then again its not my choice :icon16:

Nobody will be banned for illegible posts. Warnings have been and will continue to be sent. If the members continually ignore PMs or respond in a less than dignified manner, something else may have to be done. In those instances (nothing to do with grammar) a short holiday may be our only recourse.

Who is Chris240?

He is an ex member who revoked his privedges by resorting to personal insults.

but please let people know why they got banned, it will be helpful in the future.

If there is any ambiguity then rest assured the member will be notified. However sometimes it can take a little while to do the detective work. And we all have other priorities on our time, that can slow things down. However, in instances like the aforementioned Chris240, he will know exactly why he was banned. In fact Chris was probably fishing for precisely that, so no message is necessary.

I think the suggestion for the mods to change the font colour to let people know is a good idea.

This was my idea if you're wondering what Spitfire is talking about. I deleted it when I deleted my above post. :banghead:

The basic idea is that the mods, if they find an offensive bit of text, should surround that text with a {color='something'}...{/color} tag, which would indicate to the person that they should fix it, or it may be ignored, and also that anybody wishing to read the post still can, but is warned that it's going to be difficult. A color like orange would work fairly well. I think this would be just as effective as deleting the post, and isn't as offensive to the author.

I also said that this should apply only to those who write like they're in grade 2. I have nothing but respect for people who run their posts through a translator (either software or in their head). The effort they put into having an english conversation with us is commendable.

This was my idea if you're wondering what Spitfire is talking about. I deleted it when I deleted my above post. :banghead:

The basic idea is that the mods, if they find an offensive bit of text, should surround that text with a {color='something'}...{/color} tag, which would indicate to the person that they should fix it, or it may be ignored, and also that anybody wishing to read the post still can, but is warned that it's going to be difficult. A color like orange would work fairly well. I think this would be just as effective as deleting the post, and isn't as offensive to the author.

I also said that this should apply only to those who write like they're in grade 2. I have nothing but respect for people who run their posts through a translator (either software or in their head). The effort they put into having an english conversation with us is commendable.

That's all very well, but:

1. We're moderators, not school teachers
2. If you expect me to mark required corrections in posts, I expect the right to hand out detention and demerits.
3. If you expect us to go around marking required corrections, we expect a significant pay increase.

Why is it so unreasonable to ask members to simply post in a perfectly legible manner?

i understand what the mods mean but nobody is perfect and you want us to type like a school teacher and im sorry but i can not do that im not a school teacher.If i were to type a short sentance like "awsome work!" and everybody can read it then who cares like i told rally im here too post my models and ideas and thoughts and if i dont type too mod expections then i wont type ill just look,no reason for ban ill just stop typing and look sorry if i made anybody mad or ruffled anybodys feathers but this is how i feel and i will voice it i will not be over spoken by somebody trying to control me.

I will admit that I cannot spell worth a damn. (or type for that matter). If I'm posting a quick "well done" I will sometimes forgo the capitals of each letter, but if its something important I will generally try to make it legibal for everyone else. I also think that it should not be so hard for people to take the extra second or two to make sure that their post is readable and understandable. I personaly skip over peoples posts that are typed horribly or use lots of slang, its just not worth my time to peice them together. Just my 2cents. I hope I did not spell to many words wrong. :smile:
-C

ps. What happend to the 2cents smily?

i will not be over spoken by somebody trying to control me.

Totaly off base summation of the issue. Tell me when you drive up to a set of stoplights and the light turns red, do you stop? Or do you do what ever you like because the lights are trying to “control” you?

If you are going to get all melodramatic about a simple request, then I agree you'd be better off not posting here.

:2cents: is still here :)

Nice idea about the coloured text Mark but it would be preferable if the members were considerate enough to regulate themselves. Editing posts is something moderators try to avoid except in the worst cases. It is deemed preferable to delete a post than to edit it and maybe change the meaning, even if unintentional.

ah, i must now speak the proper english to become an upstanding citizen of this forum. like im some upper class modeler

lest all play a game of cricket and drink some tea shall we.


take your next model and shove it sideways. peace out

Totally agreed with RallyRaider.

Clearly, the point he stated means to those people who are lazy to type properly in terms of the following:
- Capital letter
- Proper comma and fullstop
- Meaningless alias, like typical example raised by willimo: Teh ishoo iz d ppl who typ liek dis n think its ok n get mad a t u when u c it and tell them 2 typ bettar bc we all no it iz there rite 2 typ how they want if u dont beleve me it iz in teh constitution right there the 2nd amendment thnk u//

IMO, these are common sentence structure, there is nothing to do with your english level.

I have to say that I agree with Rally. The other thing that really gets me are the posts that start out "" wassup homies" When I see that I do not even look at the rest of the post. The other thing that irritates me is to see swearing in posts. I am not offended by bad language,or anything, I just think that there is a time and a place for things. This is not the place for that. I agree, its all about respect.

ah, i must now speak the proper english to become an upstanding citizen of this forum. like im some upper class modeler

lest all play a game of cricket and drink some tea shall we.


take your next model and shove it sideways. peace out

Thanks for your input, slightly more lucid than your last attempt. Funny how in trying to insult us you in fact make a very good case for OUR side of the argument. If a community is about respect how much are you showing everybody?

Since when was Cricket an 'upper class' game. Sir Donald Bradman was, I believe, the son of a carpenter. It was his actions and talents that made him a legend not some vapid class system. So you refute your argument again!

As per your final suggestion, I'll take my next model and shove it sideways in front of my camera and display the pictures here. Might even shove it sideways in a comp or two, could get lucky and win again.

If you have anything further to say Mr Lownslow (oops almost misspelt it Lowandslow) take it to PM. I can ignore you more effectively that way.

I fully support Phil's point of view. In my opinion there are no issues with the people on this board who are non-English speakers. As has been said earlier they are, in most cases, better at written communication than the English speakers. The issue is really with people who are just plain lazy. Sentence strucutre and grammar is taught in Australian schools from year 1 - I would assume something similar in other parts of the world. My children (a boy of 6 and a girl of 9) know the sentence structure basics and would put a number of the English speaking contributors (primarily the US and other major English speaking countries) in this forum to shame. I would think that by the minimum AF member age of 13, that people could do it reasonably well - obviously I am wrong.

Please post in plain English. This helps the non-English speaking members to understand what is being said. This forum is for everyone so if you post a thread or reply to someone elses question, it is imperative that the communication is able to be understood by everyone.

We all make mistakes but we all have to try and ensure that we do the very best each time we do something. This applies to evrything we do. This includes writing, picking up dog poo, building a model car, or playing sport. My father always said - if you do anything, do it right, or don't do it at all.

Lastly it finally comes down to respect. Respect for one's self and respect for others. Unfortunately in the current global environment there appears to be very little of either.

I think cyclone1410 has summarised the argument very nicely there, so it's probably a good point upon which to end this discussion.