A question for the anti-Kerry brigade

There's no skill in bashing a candidate before he has a presidential track record.Wouldn't it be so much easier to explain why you like the existing President?or is it purely a party alignment thing?

Do please tell us all about the economic miracles, the great humanitarian works,the progress in peace and world harmony thet Dubbya has brought to America........

I hear his next fancy-dress parade will be to watch his own party convention from a firehouse in NY.A nice little show designed to remind everyone of the pivotal role he played in 9/11.

Stay away from the heroes,George.You are not one,and never will be.

nothin more to add to that...cant stand people that cant defend their own position, just attack other people

I thought waging the war on Iraq and capturing Saddam was a plus for President Bush/Republicans and many American citizens.

I thought waging the war on Iraq and capturing Saddam was a plus for President Bush/Republicans and many American citizens.

Are there any measurable benefits that can be demonstrated to have flowed on to the ordinary American citizen?4 years ago,Ivery much doubt that any of them saw 'liberating' Iraq as a priority worth spending billions on.THE KILLING GOES ON-and still the alleged perpetrators of the attack on the WTC have not been brought to justice.And still there are no traces of the WMD that Bush insisted were poised to threaten America. In measururable terms he scores a boig fat zero on both counts.The only measurable factors of this conflict have been the cost in dollars and the corpses.Please...give me something to argue here,because the only thing I've seen so far is excuses and spin.

I will not deny it, I am being the devil's advocate here. But I believe the argument back then was "freedom and liberty" were threatened by Saddam's looming existence. So we must arrest him, seize his WMD, and capture ALL terrorists within Iraq. Initially, Canada was mocked as cowards for not agreeing with us. As for France not supporiting us, well the ridicule still goes on (remember "Freedom fries?"). If an American citizen did not condone the judgement and action of President Bush and his Committee, he would be labelled as Anti-Patriotic, Anti-Soldiers, pu**y, etc, etc. And your mild-mannered liberals in the Congress were considered no better/worse than terrorists - eating away the very foundation our nation stands for, like parasites.

Correct me if my reiteration was false or offensive, but that was the mass-insecurity I felt among people less than a year ago.

Benefits:

More oil for years to come.
No more Saddam for us to worry about.
We're now fairly sure and confident that Saddam or the terrorists do not have any WMD assembled.
Many low-level terrorists have been captured.
The computer analyst and "master-mind" behind many of Bin-Laden's operations have been caught by Pakistani Intelligence. Although, it wasn't a bold move for our government to reveal the secret.

we had no good reason to fear saddam more than others in the first place, terrorist groups have been attacking us for years, and now there are even more of such groups who are very angry with us, and very capeable of harming us, not to mention the countries which we have recently learned actualy DO have WMDs. Mass insecurity is not a good enough reason to go to war.

People who supported the war believed that the very assumption of WMD at the hands of Saddam was a big enough reason to initiate an invasion. He was a threat to America and free world. Well that was back then.

we had no good reason to fear saddam more than others in the first place, terrorist groups have been attacking us for years, and now there are even more of such groups who are very angry with us, and very capeable of harming us, not to mention the countries which we have recently learned actualy DO have WMDs. Mass insecurity is not a good enough reason to go to war.

Are you talking about Syria/Iran? We already knew that. Or do we?? lol.

But I am fairly certain North Korea has them. And then of course there's Pakistan, despite being in our good grace.

People who supported the war believed that the very assumption of WMD at the hands of Saddam was a big enough reason to initiate an invasion. He was a threat to America and free world.

OK.George Bush is knoewn to have WMD,and a history of invading other countries.He's a threat to what others see as the free world.Does that then give us the right to invade his country,label everyone who opposes us as 'fanatics' and 'terrorists', install a puppet government and screw America for as much of its natural resources as we can?

No, of course not.So why the doublew standard.America has far more weapons and a flaky religious loon in charge.Those factors alone make him athreat by his own definitions.

There's no skill in bashing a candidate before he has a presidential track record.Wouldn't it be so much easier to explain why you like the existing President?or is it purely a party alignment thing?

Do please tell us all about the economic miracles, the great humanitarian works,the progress in peace and world harmony thet Dubbya has brought to America........

I hear his next fancy-dress parade will be to watch his own party convention from a firehouse in NY.A nice little show designed to remind everyone of the pivotal role he played in 9/11.

Stay away from the heroes,George.You are not one,and never will be.

What BS "Please don't tell us about the economic miracles, the great humanitarian works..."

President Bush put through tax cuts. It left money in the pockets of people who EARNED it. Because of that, instead of jobs being lost, people could invest and jobs are getting created. Yes, the deficit went up a few percent but thats to be expected. You cut costs and increase your spending to get the economy moving again. Tax reciepts are higher then they've ever been (after the tax cuts). The bad part is neither party in power can get a handle on the spending.

All social program increased their funding - of course it wasn't enough for some people and it was way to much for others of us. I would like to see education reformed entirely.

Every step along the way that alienated or diminished the UN was fantastic. Excellent work.

Anytime the lefties froth at the mouth, then the president is doing the right thing. Appointing Pickering, creating Homeland Security, selection of his cabinet (including more minorities at higher positions then any previous president), dumping ABM, publicly denouncing KYOTO which the Senate and House would never have approved (why do you think Clinton never signed it and took it to congress?), stomping the Taliban and eliminating Saddam.

Bush served in the reserves (the same as Kerry). Though Kerry tried for three deferments, Bush didn't. Though Bush only flew escort missions against the Soviet Union, he didn't see action in Vietnam. I applaud his service in the same way I applaud all who put on the uniform. While the left didn't see fault with Clinton actively dodging the draft, the can find fault with a man who signed up into service on his own. Again, positive things when the left shows its hypocracy.


Of course after starting out asking for positive things about a canidate - you took pot shots at Bush. Its ok. Its the only thing that the ABB has. No ideas. No plans. Only spite.

What positive things has anyone to say about Kerry?













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Just to note: The Homeland Security is a joke, every other month the "terror" alert reaches orange or red. It's a BS, it does very little preventing any terrorists from attacking us, while the bigger fishes are prowling with luxury. The entire Bin-Laden family is staying in America in our hospitality and expenses. Not to mention how much money is being wasted in this superficial program.

What exactly is expected of the common citizens when the level reaches red? Does it save us from suicide bombers or home-made bio/chemical terrorists? lol. False sense of security.

Did these type of warnings ever saved thousands of Israeli/Palestinian lives?

The warnings are a catch-22. Damned if you use it and a threat is averted and damned if you don't and an attack does occur.

I'm all for a better method and more specific information, but I'd rather err on the side of caution. Its not a chicken little situation. The threat of attack is real.













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________________________________________________
Originally posted by Z_Fanatic:
"What exactly is expected of the common citizens when the level reaches red? Does it save us from suicide bombers or home-made bio/chemical terrorists? lol. False sense of security."
_________________________________________________


You're correct in that assumption. The often BS threat alerts, for such things as "general threats" (whatever the hell that title encompasses.) are usually vague, serving to merely spook the American population into locking their doors, loading there guns, staying off planes, more openly accepting sometimes questionable military exercises, and eyeing anyone of Middle-Eastern descent more warily. That being said, the administration really has no alternative. If they DON'T sound the alert, rabid leftists will be all over them should something actually happen, screaming that they didn't warn the American populace with due measures. On the other hand, when they DO raise the threat level, the things I spoke of above stand as the probable result, leading only to harsh criticism of the threat policy itself. They (the government) can't win either way, so, while I don't agree with the use of the threat system anymore than you do, I've come to the realization that they probably have no real alternative, and when faced with the situation at hand, it's admittedly better to be safe than sorry. This leaves it up to the American people to decide for themselves what kind of heed they will pay to the warnings, and respond accordingly.

You're correct in that assumption. The often BS threat alerts, for such things as "general threats" (whatever the hell that title encompasses.) are usually vague, serving to merely spook the American population into locking their doors, loading there guns, staying off planes, more openly accepting sometimes questionable military exercises, and eyeing anyone of Middle-Eastern descent more warily. That being said, the administration really has no alternative. If they DON'T sound the alert, rabid leftists will be all over them should something actually happen, screaming that they didn't warn the American populace with due measures. On the other hand, when they DO raise the threat level, the things I spoke of above stand as the probable result, leading only to harsh criticism of the threat policy itself. They (the government) can't win either way, so, while I don't agree with the use of the threat system anymore than you do, I've come to the realization that they probably have no real alternative, and when faced with the situation at hand, it's admittedly better to be safe than sorry. This leaves it up to the American people to decide for themselves what kind of heed they will pay to the warnings, and respond accordingly.

Your words would suggest that in a way, they're just saving their own asses in disguise of a security measure/protocol. Especially since they invaded Iraq, won, and threat became even larger. While constantly putting the nation in mass-paranoia, and discriminating against a selected few.

You also have to take into account that people who resemble of Middle-Eastern descents aren't necessarily Arabs, and Arabs who do not resemble the typical "towel-head" could be Middle-Easterners.

My plan would be get out of Iraq, work HARDER on catching Bin-Laden and his accomplices abroad and in America. And have a survey to see where majority of Arab/Muslim-American stands in this issue.

Because if he gets elected our country isn't safe anymore...and well have a whole slew of people from down yonder moving up into our territoy.

nothin more to add to that...cant stand people that cant defend their own position, just attack other people

Defend that statement!

After reading Naki's first sentence I could see what was coming, a Bush bashing from Naki.


Why is it we always have to defend Bush. If we start a topic on Kerry we have to is the next topic start of "to be fair"?

How about what has Kerry done? Anyone?

Neither of them can "do what it takes" when it comes to securing our country. Although I must say, it's kind of hard to draw an opinion on where either Bush or Kerry truly, TRULY stand on an issue in respect to the other. Fools, thy names be Democrat/Republican/-enter any other party affiliation here-. This is a joke. Between tampering by politically-motivated Swift boat vets, to whining about who should, would, or won't release their military records, to acting like complete idiots in the streets of New York, almost everyone seems to be voluntarily putting blinders over their eyes as to the real issues at hand in order that they may better carry on with their ridiculous agendas. Between Kerry babbling on with whatever he thinks the group of people he's addressing wants to hear, and Bush pandering to the Hispanic vote by turning his back on immigration policy enforcement, it seems the goal of this political season is to upstage the other person with whatever underhanded tactics, smoke-and-mirrors drama, or outright storytelling is in any way possible. This is not about what is best for the people, it's about what is best for whoever has a hand in pulling the strings. It seems every time an election season comes around, it becomes less and less about the issues at heart, and more like this stupid, mindless reality-TV crap that people seem to eat up. It's like the more outlandish the fiasco, the more diabolical the plan, or the more nail-biting the events, the better.

Bush is a man who's heart may be in the right place, but he is absolutely unfit to run a country. This administration claims it's protected America and it's way of life from foreign terrorist threats that could potentially unravel the very foundation of the country, and yet they've blatantly, REPEATEDLY, turned a blind eye to the mess of illegal aliens, sky-high spending, failing Social Security, sick economy, and unstable healthcare system that are all ALREADY undoing our country. This administration, with Bush at the helm, is a poor excuse for leadership.

Kerry is an untrustworthy, flip-flopping, joke of a candidate. His party is oftentimes a troubling mix of misguided patriotism, poor morals, and unbridled ignorance. He would do know better as president of the U.S., simply because he lacks the steadfastness required to reassure and comfort the general citizenship in times of peace, nevermind when we have a large chunk of the world population breathing down our necks with undisguised loathing.

Whether they like it or not, Bush supporters are forced to constantly defend Bush because he IS the incumbent. Kerry is gunning for the position, so naturally his supporters will lead with the offensive. There is no easier way to explain this to those who question why they're seemingly always at the defense for the President. This is simply the rule of engagement. Unfortunately, those who are charging forward to unseat the current incompetent holder of power, are bringing with them an equally incompetent replacement.

Well said tenguzero (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=31221) ! Finally an unbiased opnion.

Neither of them can "do what it takes" when it comes to securing our country. Although I must say, it's kind of hard to draw an opinion on where either Bush or Kerry truly, TRULY stand on an issue in respect to the other. Fools, thy names be Democrat/Republican/-enter any other party affiliation here-. This is a joke. Between tampering by politically-motivated Swift boat vets, to whining about who should, would, or won't release their military records, to acting like complete idiots in the streets of New York, almost everyone seems to be voluntarily putting blinders over their eyes as to the real issues at hand in order that they may better carry on with their ridiculous agendas. Between Kerry babbling on with whatever he thinks the group of people he's addressing wants to hear, and Bush pandering to the Hispanic vote by turning his back on immigration policy enforcement, it seems the goal of this political season is to upstage the other person with whatever underhanded tactics, smoke-and-mirrors drama, or outright storytelling is in any way possible. This is not about what is best for the people, it's about what is best for whoever has a hand in pulling the strings. It seems every time an election season comes around, it becomes less and less about the issues at heart, and more like this stupid, mindless reality-TV crap that people seem to eat up. It's like the more outlandish the fiasco, the more diabolical the plan, or the more nail-biting the events, the better.

Bush is a man who's heart may be in the right place, but he is absolutely unfit to run a country. This administration claims it's protected America and it's way of life from foreign terrorist threats that could potentially unravel the very foundation of the country, and yet they've blatantly, REPEATEDLY, turned a blind eye to the mess of illegal aliens, sky-high spending, failing Social Security, sick economy, and unstable healthcare system that are all ALREADY undoing our country. This administration, with Bush at the helm, is a poor excuse for leadership.

Kerry is an untrustworthy, flip-flopping, joke of a candidate. His party is oftentimes a troubling mix of misguided patriotism, poor morals, and unbridled ignorance. He would do know better as president of the U.S., simply because he lacks the steadfastness required to reassure and comfort the general citizenship in times of peace, nevermind when we have a large chunk of the world population breathing down our necks with undisguised loathing.

Whether they like it or not, Bush supporters are forced to constantly defend Bush because he IS the incumbent. Kerry is gunning for the position, so naturally his supporters will lead with the offensive. There is no easier way to explain this to those who question why they're seemingly always at the defense for the President. This is simply the rule of engagement. Unfortunately, those who are charging forward to unseat the current incompetent holder of power, are bringing with them an equally incompetent replacement.


Amen! Although I still like Bush better :naughty:

LETS SEE....

THE WAPONS INSPECTORS SEEMED PRETTY CONFIDENT THERE WERE NO WMD

GEOGRAPHY PEOPLE... TERRORISTS CAPTURED IN PAKISTAN ARE A FAIR WAY FROM IRAQ.

"LOW-LEVEL TERRORISTS" IN IRAQ COULD BE SEEN TO BE FIGHTING FOR THEIR COUNTRY BY WHATEVER MEANS THEY CAN... YOU DIDN'T THINK THAT YOU COULD TAKE OVER SOMEONE ELSES COUNTRY AND NOT HAVE A FIGHT DID YOU? HOW MANY IRAQI'S WOULD AMERICA KILL IF IRAQ ATTACKED THE us... HOW MANY HAVE THEY KILLED BY ATTACKING IRAQ...

I'M NOT FAIRLY SURE THAT TERRORISTS DON'T HAVE WMD... I AM JUST SURE THAT IRAQ DOESN'T, AND HASN'T FOR A LONG TIME! THOSE CHECHYAN TERRORISTS MAY WELL HAVE EX-USSR WEAPONS...

SO I GUESS WE'RE LEFT WITH OIL HUH?

I GUESS IT'S FINE TO KILL THOUSANDS AND LIE TO THE WORLD IF SOMEONE ELSE HAS SOMETHING YOU WANT.... EVEN THOUGH YOU CAN GET IT IF YOU SHARE WHAT THEY WANT... BUT WHY PAY FOR IT IF YOU CAN STEAL IT RIGHT?

BULLYING IN SCHOOLS CAUSES MASACRES... BULLYING IN COUNTRIES ...YEAH I SEE PARRALLELS...

I'M NOT FAIRLY SURE THAT TERRORISTS DON'T HAVE WMD... I AM JUST SURE THAT IRAQ DOESN'T, AND HASN'T FOR A LONG TIME! THOSE CHECHYAN TERRORISTS MAY WELL HAVE EX-USSR WEAPONS...

SO I GUESS WE'RE LEFT WITH OIL HUH?

I GUESS IT'S FINE TO KILL THOUSANDS AND LIE TO THE WORLD IF SOMEONE ELSE HAS SOMETHING YOU WANT.... EVEN THOUGH YOU CAN GET IT IF YOU SHARE WHAT THEY WANT... BUT WHY PAY FOR IT IF YOU CAN STEAL IT RIGHT?


Since you are an UN weapons inspector according to your comments! Show me the proof that we invaded Iraq for the oil! Please explain to me why I am paying 40% more per gallon of gasoline this year than I paid last year. Since we are getting all this free oil where is it?

What about the chechyans having Bin laden trained terrorists among the other hostage takers?


Now who are you saying has killed thousands? I hope you are not accussing the Americans of killing the thousands as you claim. More people have died from the terrorists trying to kill Americans than the Americans have shot. BTW American soliders don't shoot unless shot at or are in danger. The terrorists don't care who they kill AMerica or Iraq it doesn't matter to them. Also who is the head terrorist in Iraq?

Sadr is justr a pissed off little punk who is throwing a fit because no one picked him to run the government. Its not about freedom fighting its about Sadr not having power.

i'm not a weapons inspector...i work for a petrochemical company...oil... if you know of any WMD found in iraq do tell.... theres about 6 billion people out there who'd love to know!

and what about the chechyan? as i said i think they are more likely to have WMD than Sadam was...

hmmm americans don't shoot first huh?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2877349.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2878565.stm
Brit Pilot's Punch-up


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Furious British Helicopter Pilot who came under "friendly fire" from American troops landed yards from them, leapt out and exchanged punches with a US Marine.

The Chinook pilot shouted at him: "When was the last time you saw a f******* Iraqi in a helicopter?"

The pilot and the marine had to be pulled apart as American troops advanced on the north of Baghdad, according to US reports from US Central Command in Qatar.

British military spokesman Group Captain Al Lockwood said: "I'm afraid it would be an RAF kind of thing to do. These guys are not known for tolerating fools gladly."

Daily Mirror, Monday 7th April 2003, page 4.

do chinooks often shoot at things???

just my humble opinion. and I am in the military, lots of my friends have gone and come back from iraq. I have not gone yet but will probably in November. I have no problem going to war for my country, I just don't feel this cause. I don't want to get deployed because I think it's a bullshit war. money. oil. lies. Don't get me wrong, I'd fight for my country. But in my heart I don't feel that this war is for our country. I do not know what lies are in the mind of our pathalogical liar of a commander in chief but I honestly feel he needs some psychiactric (sorry about the spellings) help.

My bottom line is this. PEOPLE, the UNITED STATES ARE NOT THE FUCKING POLICE OF THE WORLD! We are not giving these people help. The only people that think that we are helping over there are the people that watch a stupid cartoon and then at the end it says quickly "kids, drink your milk" and honestly feel that it was an educational cartoon. C'mon. you see my point?

i was out drinking with a mate (used to be in platoon) when he got the call to go to Iraq, He's now in the SAS and had just come back from Afghanistan, was on leave but got cut short, thats the same sentiment he had... it's one thing fighting for your country, but thats not what Iraq is all about...

i'd just like to say thank you to GWB for my dad getting laid off, my friend jordan stelle getting deployed for a year, my friend cynamon getting deployed for 5 months and coming back, she said they didn't really do shit but support themselves (this is something the military is good at. Like my base, put a base in the middle of the pacific ocean and what do we do here? we support ourselves. thats the mission here. so I ask this... why not just demolish the fucking base and not waste the money? oh well. 30000 people in japan are on "standby" incase the surrounding areas do "something". Yeah, I have a lot of pride in that.). And thanks for leaving me no option but to join the military after high school. Thanks for fucking up the future for me and my kids. Keep "turning the corner" george. I hope to god you don't win the election but hey... look on the bright side: you have 2 daughters that are certainly not going to be the president and even if you win, come 2008 this shit is guarenteed to be all over. I just hope it's not too late. that was my two japanese yen.

i'd just like to say thank you to GWB for my dad getting laid off, my friend jordan stelle getting deployed for a year, my friend cynamon getting deployed for 5 months and coming back, she said they didn't really do shit but support themselves (this is something the military is good at. Like my base, put a base in the middle of the pacific ocean and what do we do here? we support ourselves. thats the mission here. so I ask this... why not just demolish the fucking base and not waste the money? oh well. 30000 people in japan are on "standby" incase the surrounding areas do "something". Yeah, I have a lot of pride in that.). And thanks for leaving me no option but to join the military after high school. Thanks for fucking up the future for me and my kids. Keep "turning the corner" george. I hope to god you don't win the election but hey... look on the bright side: you have 2 daughters that are certainly not going to be the president and even if you win, come 2008 this shit is guarenteed to be all over. I just hope it's not too late. that was my two japanese yen.

Please explain how President Bush got your Dad laid off, left you no choice but to join the military and fucked up you and your kids future? Typical lib, blame somebody else for your problems. And your friends that got deployed? Hey dumbass, you joined the MILITARY. Sorry you actually had to do something. More crying from the left. :mad:

...and you've obviously never been in the military, didn't you ever feel patriotic enough to want to defend your country? Sounds pretty typical to me, of someone that likes sending other people off and avoiding it themselves... Defending your country from foreign threats is a lot different to invading someone elses to line the pockets of some back home.

people like you make me SICK!

Just because someone joins the military does not mean they like killing people, or that they want to go off OR that they should go off and fight for something they don't believe in. These are the people who keep you safe you unloyal prick, give them some more respect or get your ass to iraq and fight for your own beliefs!

...and you've obviously never been in the military, didn't you ever feel patriotic enough to want to defend your country? Sounds pretty typical to me, of someone that likes sending other people off and avoiding it themselves... Defending your country from foreign threats is a lot different to invading someone elses to line the pockets of some back home.

people like you make me SICK!

Just because someone joins the military does not mean they like killing people, or that they want to go off OR that they should go off and fight for something they don't believe in. These are the people who keep you safe you unloyal prick, give them some more respect or get your ass to iraq and fight for your own beliefs!

You are right, I've never been in the military. But, if I did JOIN VOLUNTARILY, I would have to keep in mind the DUTY of the MILITARY: To defend our nation at ALL COST,ie. till death. Now, if I joined looking to get a free college degree, than yes, I would be mad. And speaking of foreign threats, yes, they came to us so we had to go on the offensive and hit them at home. Of course, we could've just sat here, safe and sound and waited for another attack because we didn't want to make anybody mad.
Both of my Grandfathers were in WWII and these men and women who have fought for us and continue fighting for us all around the world have my utmost respect for doing what they signed up to do. I feel for each and every soldier who came home and also those who weren't so lucky as well as their families. I could not even begin to imagine what hell they have gone through. So don't even call me an unloyal prick for getting in this guys ass for blaming Bush for all of his problems. If the draft were in effect and my name was called I would kiss my wife and two kids and go defend my country as best I could.

so you're saying that prior to september 11 a couple of years back america had never hurt anyone in these peoples countries? that your military just stayed at home and didn't go into other countries? why do you think these people are pissed off? you seriously need to ask yourself some questions. I think you will find that the first interactions took place well outside the US. As have pretty much all altercations that the US has been involved in... bar independance and the US-mexican war. who went to whom?

how do you know what you would do? People say oh i would do this i would do that, but they just don't understand because they know that they don't have to make that decision, while they're sitting at home with other people (usually less fortunate) fighting their fights and people who haven't been in the military seriously need to wake up on the idea of loyalty!

And if all you got from it was a broken family and while you were away your family lost their home cause of pay and military family allowance cuts, but if you knew that the plunder from your campaign meant that someone who didn't have to go fight got a nice new yacht, how would that make you feel? Don't you think that someone who is patriotic enough to sign up and defend their country would be willing to go if there really was a threat? Those soldiers have gone to invade another country, most of the world opposed it, because Iraq was not a threat, least of all to the US. The soldiers that go to Iraq aren't going there to defend anything but the person next to them, they are going there on a crusade to steal oil! Many of them have lost their lives and many more will be forever scarred for a cause they don't believe in because they know there was no reason.

DO NOT confuse the invasion of iraq with WW2, that would be stupid as in WW2 america faught to defend their allies, not to invade another country. This second invasion of iraq has more parallels to the first gulf war, only this time instead of Iraq invading Kuwait for Oil, the US has invaded Iraq... however unlike kuwait who got walked over only to be aided by the west (allied because the threat was evident) Iraq has been invaded by a western country, a superpower, and they aren't going to be getting any help to get their attackers out...

supporting Bush now is just like supporting Sadam in 1991!

T RD2000 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=195871)

I am tired so don't take this the wrong way~! I am freaking tired of hearing we are their to steal oil, so fucking prove it

What people are pissed off?

What country in the world has the balls to invade America?

Democrats, republicans, Nader lovers we all are loyal to our country we do not need to be in the miltary to be loyal to our country or the soliders that fight for the US.

Your comment about most of the world was against the invasion is wrong most countries didn't care, some were against it and some for the invasion.

Iraq was a threat to the US. Who the hell did you think was inforcing the no fly zones, whose navy was patrolling the waters around Iraq trying to stop the french and russians from selling banned items to Iraq. These soliders were constantly being shot at, bombed and so on. We didn't need to drag the sanctions on for another 20 years under the useless UN.

BTW were you or are you in the miltary?

What countries did the US invade that we weren't asked to, or help out in?


Either prove your points or quit whining.

Just so you know BUSH will get 4 more years, so you will have 4 more years to whine about.

yes i was, yes i have friends that served in afghanistan and iraq, and yes i had friends who died in a terrorist attack (bali). have you?

no country is going to invade america... so where was the threat.

some of the people who were pissed off had the balls to attack america already... some more are killing US troops right now.

how was iraq a threat? was it going to get america with all those weapons of mass destruction it had?

what countries? lets look at iraq for the moment... theres one

we could i guess look at who they "helped"
they helped sudam by supplying weapons (including gas) to be used against Iran.

they helped Osama by providing weapons and training to fight Russia.

yeah they better stop those French and Russians from supplying them huh?

I'm busy right now i'll try and get you some more on the oil later...

[QUOTE=TRD2000]


how was iraq a threat? was it going to get america with all those weapons of mass destruction it had?

we could i guess look at who they "helped"
they helped sudam by supplying weapons (including gas) to be used against Iran.

QUOTE]

So which is it? First you say he didn't have WMD, then you say he had them but to be used against Iran. So if he had them, which many sources of intel other than the US confirmed, whos to say he wouldn't have used them against us? Dirty bomb, etc. And those who still argue Saddam didn't aid the terrorists? Why was it that he paid $25,000 to the families of suicide bombers? Oh, maybe he just wanted to help his people.

where did you hear about the 25 grand? i never saw anything about that... if you can get us some more info!

you actually just made me laugh, i was being sarcastic about the WMD. He HAD them a long time ago, nobody disputes that, gas was used in the Iran-Iraq war, i think it was quite possibly used in the first gulf war too, judging by the sickness that came out... the question (which has been answered by the rest of the world already) was whether he had them when George junior decided to attack? considering the mighty intelligence agencies you mentioned have been able to present a total of ZERO WMD when given complete access to the country, i'm tending to go with NO there were none there because they had been destroyed over the last 10 years!

i think it was quite possibly used in the first gulf war too, judging by the sickness that came out...

The most likely cause of that sickness was the depleted uranium used by American forces,authorised by by George Bush Snr.It's a highly toxic substance with horrendous side-effects,outlawed by the Geneva Convention.Ironically, depleted uranium is the kind of material that would be used in a 'dirty' bomb of the type that the Bush administration pretends to be protecting America from.If terrorists are going to use DU as a weapon, then in my opinion,those who have already used it are also terrorists.

Bush and Bush Snr are should be tried for war crimes.

I Couldn't Agree More! Bu Ti Don't Think We'll See It Happen... Did They Even Sign The Geoneva Convention? They Wouldn't Sign Up For The World Court In The Hague...

I Saw A Thing A While Back Of A Tv Crew Smuggling In Uranium Into The States From Asia, They Couldn't Stop That So What Hope Have They Got?

The most likely cause of that sickness was the depleted uranium used by American forces,authorised by by George Bush Snr.It's a highly toxic substance with horrendous side-effects,outlawed by the Geneva Convention.Ironically, depleted uranium is the kind of material that would be used in a 'dirty' bomb of the type that the Bush administration pretends to be protecting America from.If terrorists are going to use DU as a weapon, then in my opinion,those who have already used it are also terrorists.

Bush and Bush Snr are should be tried for war crimes.

So you are saying the hundreds of thousands of Kurds buried in mass graves all died from depleted uranium that was the fault of the US? Change the channel from CNN. :screwy:

TRD2000, I'm glad I made you laugh because, even though we all seem to disagree on how it should be done, I like to think we all have the best interest of the nation in mind. Again, I've never served in the military but there isn't a day that goes by that I don't think of those who are away from home fighting so a bunch of bozos can "fight it out" sitting at home on the computer.

NAAAA.... THEY DIED CAUSE THE iRAQI'S GASSED EM WITH THE "GOOD STUFF" THEY GOT FROM UNCLE SAM! DUH! NOBODY'S DISPUTING THAT!

sorry caps... the depleted uranium is seen as a contributing factor to the whole "gulf syndrome " thing. well, that and making it easier to see at night in the iraqi desert....

What BS "Please don't tell us about the economic miracles, the great humanitarian works..."

President Bush put through tax cuts. It left money in the pockets of people who EARNED it. Because of that, instead of jobs being lost, people could invest and jobs are getting created. Yes, the deficit went up a few percent but thats to be expected. You cut costs and increase your spending to get the economy moving again. Tax reciepts are higher then they've ever been (after the tax cuts). The bad part is neither party in power can get a handle on the spending.



did you say we didnt have job losses? did i hear you right?

the area i Live in NC used to be the FURNITURE CAPITAL OF THE WORLD

now CHINA is

the unemploymen tin my county went from around 5% to 11% right after all those checks came to people, instead of people getting to spend $600 or so on what they wanted, they had to spend it on what they needed. dont speak for the whole country when you dont know, the economy in the south is SHITY, its almost non exsistant, poverty is shooting through the roof, and THE MIDDLE EAST WAS MORE PEACEFUL BEFORE 9/11 THEN IT IS NOW!!!

thanks a lot George Fucking Bush
hes done nothing for our country...

kinda sad that bush never once mentioned Iraq as being a problem to USA untill after 9/11

cant forget that him, donald rumsfield, and collan powell have been pushing for a regime change in Iraq since 1998, they even asked Clinton to get saddam outta office, you might remember us bombing Baghdad for 6 or 7 nights, untill saddam would let UN inspectors into the country.
they also said they could slowly get evidence over a period of time to find saddam guilty of wrong doing, or wait for antoher "pearl harbor" and put the blame on them and go to war. now all of that was in the 90s,

well guess what happend on 9.11.01


good job bush, youve ruined 3 countrys, USA, Iraq,Afghanistan

sorry for any misspelling, its too late....

http://kerry-04.org/
The real Kerry website

kinda sad that bush never once mentioned Iraq as being a problem to USA untill after 9/11

cant forget that him, donald rumsfield, and collan powell have been pushing for a regime change in Iraq since 1998, they even asked Clinton to get saddam outta office, you might remember us bombing Baghdad for 6 or 7 nights, untill saddam would let UN inspectors into the country.
they also said they could slowly get evidence over a period of time to find saddam guilty of wrong doing, or wait for antoher "pearl harbor" and put the blame on them and go to war. now all of that was in the 90s,

well guess what happend on 9.11.01


good job bush, youve ruined 3 countrys, USA, Iraq,Afghanistan

sorry for any misspelling, its too late....

Even the great Clinton knew Iraq was a problem back then including your hero kerry. He wanted Clinton to go to Iraq then supported Bush and said we needed to be successful in Iraq no matter how many billions it cost. Only now he's singing a different tune.
So you are saying that while Clinton was still president, he was approached by Bush, Rumsfeld and Powell and asked to remove Saddam? And they also said they would wait for another Pearl Harbor? Could you PLEASE provide some sort of proof of that. I think the bombing had more to do with the FACT that Saddam was giving the US and the UN, as well as the rest of the world, the finger by not allowing the inspectors to do their jobs. If he had nothing to hide why not let them in? There seems to be a lot of people that feel the Libs and the likes of the ACLU have done more harm to this country than President Bush could ever do.

And those blaming Bush for all of the job losses must have forgotten all about the wonderful thing that Clinton passed, even with great opposition from most of the working class, that started the great move of big business overseas. Remember NAFTA?

So you are saying the hundreds of thousands of Kurds buried in mass graves all died from depleted uranium that was the fault of the US? Change the channel from CNN. :screwy:



Wonder when the number of Kurds 'found in mass graves' will start to exceed the population of the Middle East? The apologists for this war have a comprehensive track record of lies,gross exaggerations, and 'duck and switch' tactics.

You've included a huge exaggeration and a duck and switch in that one sentence.We're not talking about Kurds right now, but you don't appear to have a valid contribution to the debate at hand, so you bring in the Kurds and blow the numbers out of all proportion.

Go away, get some facts, and get some debating skills.I n both the Gulf War, and the current Iraqi land grab,American troops, allied troops, and Iraqi civillians have all become ill because of the illegal use of depleted uranium.There's a word for people who lie about their enemy possessing illegal weapons,and using it as a justification to use their own WMD's.

i found the link on the old system of a down website, sense been updated, it was from abc.com

if the UN wanted to search Area 51 for WmDs, do you think we will let them?
No, thats our privacy, same reason why saddam doesnt want to be searched.

yesx nafta might have some thing to do with it, but since bush has been such a GREAT economical leader he should have changed that by now (yeah right!) bush has done nothing for our country in the way of economics, or any thing at all on our homeland.

Wonder when the number of Kurds 'found in mass graves' will start to exceed the population of the Middle East? The apologists for this war have a comprehensive track record of lies,gross exaggerations, and 'duck and switch' tactics.

You've included a huge exaggeration and a duck and switch in that one sentence.We're not talking about Kurds right now, but you don't appear to have a valid contribution to the debate at hand, so you bring in the Kurds and blow the numbers out of all proportion.

Go away, get some facts, and get some debating skills.I n both the Gulf War, and the current Iraqi land grab,American troops, allied troops, and Iraqi civillians have all become ill because of the illegal use of depleted uranium.There's a word for people who lie about their enemy possessing illegal weapons,and using it as a justification to use their own WMD's.

Sorry I'm not the great debater that you seem to be but here's a link claiming 180,000 dead Kurds.http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/16/1058035074536.html?oneclick=true
Not much of an exaggeration.
I brought up the Kurds because you Bush haters seem to think Saddam was a great guy who hid nothing from the UN, allowed the money from the sale of his oil to benefit his people and was an all around nice guy. I brought up the Kurds to show that Saddam, did in fact have WMD and enjoyed using them on his own people.

[QUOTE=TRD2000]where did you hear about the 25 grand? i never saw anything about that... if you can get us some more info!

QUOTE]

Here you go:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C48822%2C00.html

[QUOTE=TRD2000]where did you hear about the 25 grand? i never saw anything about that... if you can get us some more info!

QUOTE]

This too:

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/5388380.htm

Thanks GN, i have to admit i'm still sceptical, the piece didn't sound like it was written by an unbiased observer. but hey someone published it so it must be true!

"Ken Layne types from a shack behind his Los Angeles home. The author of trashy thrillers such as Dot.Con and the upcoming Space Critters, he has written and edited for a variety of news outfits including Information Week, the Sydney Daily Telegraph, UPI and Mother Jones. Since the Enron-like collapse of his Web paper, Tabloid.net, in 1999, he has been posting commentary to KenLayne.com."

Saddam was a great guy who hid nothing from the UN, allowed the money from the sale of his oil to benefit his people and was an all around nice guy.


If Saddam had hidden anything from the UN,the US would have found it a long time ago. If they can find a man in a hole in the desert, they can find an alleged arsenal of WMD.The 'he hid it' defence gets more embarrasing by the day, and shows a scale of desperation every time it is used.Bush claimed that these weapons were in place and ready to be deployed.He was hopelessly wrong.Please start dealing with that fact.


As to the oil revenue..
Well, last time I looked,There were no Halliburton execs wandering down the street giving out 100 dollar bills either.And they don't even have to cope with the UN puting sanctions on everything from medicines to water treatment equipment to please the hawks in the US.

I never said bush was a great guy, but USA always has to stick their nose into every thing, thats what embarasses me about living in america.

but saddam hasnt done ANYTHING harmful towards our country since the gulf war, there has been NO real proof he is connected with alqueda or how ever its spelled.

Bush is a racist towards any one from the middle east


and i agree with Taranki, if he had WMDs they would have been found a long time ago...



right now by how every thing is looking, looks like we will have G bush for another 4 years, another 4 sad years for our country, another 4 years i refuse to pleage allegence to the flag of lies.

but saddam hasnt done ANYTHING harmful towards our country since the gulf war, there has been NO real proof he is connected with alqueda or how ever its spelled.

??? The US was enforcing the UN no fly zones (we'll leave the fact the US was doing anythign with the UN for a different discussion) and he would shoot at the planes. Is that nothing? As for supporting al Queda - as I've said before, that was immaterial. They are hardly the only terrorist organization in the world.

Bush is a racist towards any one from the middle east

Thats a crock. Are you one of the people that thinks the Bush's are in bed with the Saudi's? If so, which is it.


right now by how every thing is looking, looks like we will have G bush for another 4 years, another 4 sad years for our country, another 4 years i refuse to pleage allegence to the flag of lies.

It is looking like Bush will win and thats fantastic! You are free to do what you want or don't want. Don't pledge allegence, don't support the president or stick your head up your ass. Its all up to you. Its a good thing that Kerry won't be elected and fuck up the country :bigthumb:













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i just hope George doesn't start WW3 in that time, and i hope i don't have to have any more of my friends killed!

I'm fine with him fucking up America and making it more hated world wide, if America votes for him then they can live with the consequences i guess.

As to the oil revenue..
Well, last time I looked,There were no Halliburton execs wandering down the street giving out 100 dollar bills either.And they don't even have to cope with the UN puting sanctions on everything from medicines to water treatment equipment to please the hawks in the US.

What does Halliburton have to do with anything? Please don't tell me you believe the lies from the left that the only reason we went to war was to put money in Cheney's pocket. If so, you need to research Halliburton and see that the government has been dealing with them for many years, long before Cheney. And if you don't agree with Bush's dealing with Halliburton, is it safe to assume you don't agree with Clinton's dealing with them too? Clinton agreed to a 70 Billion dollar deal with Halliburton to rebuild Syria. There is a handful of companies in the world that are large enough to rebuild Iraq: One is Russian, one is French and the other is owned by Osama's family. Should we have given the contract to one of them? I think not.

If Saddam would have followed the rules of the world, the UN, there would be no sanctions against his country and his people could prosper and reep the benifits of the BILLIONS of dollars he kept to himself from the sale of his NATIONS oil.

but saddam hasnt done ANYTHING harmful towards our country since the gulf war, there has been NO real proof he is connected with alqueda or how ever its spelled.

Bush is a racist towards any one from the middle east
.

Saddam supplied save haven to Usama and Zarqawi many times. Don't think they have anything to do with terrorism? Also supplied money to terrorists and their families, see above links.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132682,00.html

And please supply proof that Bush is a racist. More bomb throwing from the left.

cant forget that he hates homosexuals, wont go to the NAACP meetings, every president since they have formed went to a meeting, but bush hasnt. He never once mentioned terroism and/or the middle east being a problem/threat to the USA untill 9/11

also the thing i wont forget from 9/11 is that fact that on teh news they said there was a huge caravan seen leaving Afganhistan and moving into pakistan, hey who the fuck do you think was in that? osama...

bush wake up, our country is falling apart, the debt is geting worse, poverty is getting worse, life is getting worse for americans.


David Letterman said it best, it went some thing like this "Bush has started recontructing Iraq now, if his plan goes through and there are no problems, he will then try it on America." and thats about true, all you people keep saying there is no poverty, and shit like that over here

2 in 5 american kids live in poverty, not only that you come down here to the south and you will see poverty, i cant drive to school without seeing people that live in poverty, i can barely get out of my neighorhood with out seeing it, i think god for what i have, tho i don thave much i am glad for what i have. you ungratefull bastards need to get that through your heads.

At last i saw over 25,000,000 americans lived in poverty, thats about 1/10 of our population. whats the population of Iraq? probably not much more than that. were just wasting out money trying to rebuild a country when parts of our country are worse then theirs, and dont even begin to say it isnt till you come down here to the south.

most of the places that i have to back up my claims are no longer on the internet, if not i would be swarming this with links.

2 in 5 american kids live in poverty, not only that you come down here to the south and you will see poverty, i cant drive to school without seeing people that live in poverty, i can barely get out of my neighorhood with out seeing it, i think god for what i have, tho i don thave much i am glad for what i have. you ungratefull bastards need to get that through your heads.

At last i saw over 25,000,000 americans lived in poverty, thats about 1/10 of our population. whats the population of Iraq? probably not much more than that. were just wasting out money trying to rebuild a country when parts of our country are worse then theirs, and dont even begin to say it isnt till you come down here to the south.

These people lived in poverty before Bush and they will still be living in poverty after Bush is buried in the ground. You can't blame Bush or anyone else for their living conditions. They need to look in the mirror for the person to blame. If I decided not to work my ass off I too would be living in poverty and it would be my fault. Its time to stop blaming everyone for how you choose to live.

if you read correctly, im not blaming him for the povery before, but povery is still growing, and hes done aboslutely nothing to help stop it. NOTHING

oh yeah hes a great economic leader

if you read correctly, im not blaming him for the povery before, but povery is still growing, and hes done aboslutely nothing to help stop it. NOTHING

oh yeah hes a great economic leader

Maybe its time to stop passing the blame! These people need to get off their asses and get a job, go to school do whatever it takes to get off the poverty line instead of blaming the president for their problems. No one person in the world can cure poverty, it takes the poor people to cure their own problems.

ok, you come here where 50 year olds are competeing with 14 year olds to bag grocerys for 5 hours a week, and tell them they need to get off their lazy asses, like i mentioned earlier in this thread, the unemployment rate has gone from abour 4 or 5% to 11% here and its not getting better


plus poverty doenst mean you dont have a job it means for a house hold of 4 people the income is less than $13,000 a year, or some where around there, i dont know what it is for a family with more or less people

My opnion....Kerry isn't a better candidate than Bush. Kerry is less worse for the country.

like i mentioned earlier in this thread, the unemployment rate has gone from abour 4 or 5% to 11% here and its not getting better

Time for people to move out of that soon to be ghost town. It appears that nobody there wants to invest money into a business and would rather wait around for someone else to do it.













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