Could it be? The F60?

650 hp, 6.0 V12...blah, blah blah...here it is(?)
http://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/happenings/images/F60-3sd.jpg (http://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/happenings/images/F60-3.jpg)

Click to Enlarge.

Oh, I almost forgot.....:eek2:

:huh:
:eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2::eek2:
:huh:

Damn . . . imagine THAT in Ferrari Red . . .!!!

NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That car has Le Mans written all over it. I would like to see it compared to Toyota's TS020 or Audi's RS8 (?).

I'm kinda tired of those taillights, though. I hope the wing blends in well.

MUAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
http://cwm.ragesofsanity.com/contrib/dvv/esmil2.gif


It's going to be mine!!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHA

Fine! Have it . . . I'll take the Modena in the background . . .
;)

Ill take the f-60!

Yep...F60 for me too.

I almost hope they don't add a wing. I think the rear end does need some more work, but I'm just not too big on wings. I'm more impressed with a car like the 360 that can produce enough downforce without one, and they often look like tacky-addons (not too often in Ferrari's case)(I take that back...never in Ferrari's case:D).

I hope they do add the wing, otherwise it looks like it has 2 vertical stabilizers. I alos think the front is kind of cool, looks like a mix between 360 and F40.:)

Ferrari can never do wrong!!!!!!!!! I agree, Enzo, I dont like the fins. They need to make them a little less palpable... Thats my point of view though...

I don't think the fins look too bad. But maybe that's my bias setting in. I think it would look much better the get rid of them though, maybe by utilizing a built in spoiler (ala F40, F50) or simply smooting it out or something. But, if this is the F60, I will be very satisfied...especially with the what, 650hp?

I just want to see them race it. For 24 hours:flash:

It's going to be a road car though, I'm sure they can probably race it though.

where's the spoiler?

Well, the lack of a spoiler is somewhat strange, but it does make sense. Ferrari has never really used spoilers. We think of the F cars carrying massive spoilers, but in the long run, better aerodynamics are more efficient. That said, I shall quote the great Enzo...

"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines"

Wow, I never knew he said that. I guess the 360 is a shitty car then! :D

I believe the F60 isn't even supposed to break 200mph, because it's being made for downforce.

Well....the 360 still has a killer engine...one which would make Enzo really glad, and one which makes Enzo@af really happy:D

What's the point of so much downforce if it ain't going past 200? So you can drink you coffee?

Perhaps because this is a road car. Not too many times will the driver be going 200+ on the road, but I'm sure 100-150 will be frequent (especially on the audobahn), so stability at those speeds is probably something quite desirable.

That being said, I don't believe that it won't break 200mph. I know it's plausible, but there are bragging rights that need to be upheld.

I hope it ends up being more like the F40. I was (comparitively) quite disappointed with the F50, it's like Ferrari realized the popularity of the F40 and tryed to capitalize on style and image rather than pure driving excitement. The F40 is purposeful, it even looks it. The F50 seems made more for sitting in museums and for rich snobs to be seen in. Especially how it's open topped, hard tops usually handle much better than open topped cars. I hope the F60 is more a purpose built car and not an image car.

Gull wing doors! I disaprove....and after all, I am the ultimate authority.

Gullwing doors? Who mentioned gullwing doors? What do you disapprove of? The whole car, or gullwing doors?

it doesn't look like it..IMO it looks WAY too 90s ish... you'd think that they would make it look like the 360modenaish... not curvy enough.. a little more curves, bigger headlights, more MODERN and not older looking, (i'm talking about the flatness and sharp lines)...

you know what I'm talking about?

OK, you are forgetting that that is a heavily disguised mule. The 50's style fins are probably to disguise it, make it harder to guess what it will look like. ANd you can see the underbody diffuser exiting at 2 points out the rear, just like a 360 and every new racing car. 650 hp sounds right, from a NA V12 probably. 200 mph will be breached (bragging rights). THe downforce allows you to go faster, numb-nuts. Think about it: You're headed into a tight curve, going 120 mph. You go to turn, teh wheels slip liek they were on ice, you crash, roll, burn, die. Now you add some downforce, you make the turn, leave it at 105, and away you go. Even if you don't crash, you have to slow down to 80 to make the turn. Which makes more sense???
Have you ever driven at 185+ mph??? Neither have I, but I can imagine it is scary (fun) as hell. The last thing you want is to have to worry about the wheels leaving the ground (especially the front), or pushing down with insufficient force to turn. DOWNFORCE IS IMPORTANT!!!
This new F60 shouldn't have a wing or fins, bu tit will be the rootinnest-tuttinest Ferrari of modern days, maybe ever (performance wise, it will be, but that isn't hte only factor).
I can't wait, it will be awesome!

PS, I wonder how it will compare to the Bugatti 16/4 Veyron?? How will their philisophies mingle, and which is better??

WOAH, numb nuts your self. Down force gives you stability at high speeds. Sure it lets you sustain high speeds around turns and what not, but it does not give a higher top speed. I reiterate, numb nuts. Wings and spoilers make downforce, they also make drag.

Got it, jerky? :rolleyes:

Yes, I'm sorry. When I wrote that I had just finished trying to explain downforce to my friends.
I phrased it bad (the way I did it kinda worked for my friend)
Ok, here goes:
Downforce makes you go faster on a road cours. On ovals, to much is bad, but you need some. In a straight line, downforce is bad.

Sorry 'bout that.

Anyway, cant some wings make you go faster by letting the air go past easier?? It needs to be subtle, maybe even just a lip spoiler.

To be honest, I would personally prefer a more stable 180mph supercar than a less stable car that could reach upwards of 200. There is no way that I, in a road car, would even reach 180. Maybe if I went to the audobahn, things would be different. However, if I'm in my priceless Ferrari, I want to be stuck to the ground! Furthering this need for downforce, if I take it to a track, unless it's a pretty damn straight track, downforce will only help my times by allowing faster corners, later braking, and all that good stuff. Not too many tracks have excessive straights where 200+ mph spees are THAT beneficial.

But, I won't at all be surprised if the car has a blend of both...200+ mph speeds with the downforce to keep it planted to an upside-down road. FERRARI RULES!

Yeah, in the American grand Prix, they had lots of downforce to go fast in the twisties, but sacrificed speed on the straight.
This car will be awesome.:D

MORE PICS! ENJOY!
By clicking http://www.edidomus.it/AUTO/MondoAuto/attualita/singola_news.cfm?Codnews=2962&tipo=2

Looks like a wing is in the plans.

Adding a wing does not let air go by easier. Air would only go by easier if there was no wing at all. Wings add drag, it doesn't matter has smooth and aerodynamic it is.

PS
Sorry about the numb-nuts... ;)


:)

Don't worry about it.

If they add a wing, it will have tons! of downforce. And I'm almost sure that a lip spoier will let the air go by on top, and not 'tumbe' around the rear of the car (picking up leafs and such). I'll try to find the article (its old, and I may be remembering incorrectly)

The finished car pic is a phot-shopped pic, right?? Anyway, I don't read Italian, bu tI got the just of it (I guess French pays off. Probably that some words are almost the same in English)

THAT looks a little better... I guess the paint helps.. but it still is too boxy for modern Ferraris.. like the F40, but smaller...

Wow! Those done-up pics make it look really slick. Now I can't wait to see what they end up with! :)

note to self: ask for days off now for car show in January

Enzo I think Ill buy one when they come out... You want one? I better get on the waiting list soon...

I got my AutoWeek today. They report that it may actually carry the name "Enzo."

No way! I personally don't think it'l happen.
When they were thinking of making it, tehy contacted a lot of Ferrari collectors/ buyers. SO the whole lot is probably almost sold out already. But if they lease like the F50, they will be out for everyone soon.

Come to think of it, it does just look like a compressed F50. I din't like the fact that they used F50 rims in the design also. as for comparison against the Eb 16/4, I don't think power and speedwise, there will be too much. The Eb 16/4 has 1001 HP and a projected top speed of 406 km/h, enough to smoke the F60 in a speed race. But I think like Heep and Chris were saying earlier they might make the F60 able to take high Speed turns and have excellant handling, not top-end Speed.

And lets not forget the price difference. And ability to get one (only 50 Bugatti's)
I wonder what they will both be like, and if a magazine will ever have the chance to test the two head-to-head. THAT would be interesting.

Originally posted by Silver S2000
I got my AutoWeek today. They report that it may actually carry the name "Enzo."

Woohoo! Damn, I guess they really like me! I'm famous! Hey, maybe they'll give me one...or two! Yeah, right.

Anyhow, the comparison between the F60 and Bugatti is hard right now because we don't know what's up with the F60....will it have a high top speed, great handling through downforce, blah blah blah...however, the Bugatti is just a beast. I imagine it will just be a trophy car, basically undriveable. Too much damn horsepower and torque, and I'm guessing it's pretty heavy too. I imagine handling will be awful, but straight line performance will be FAST (duh).

I take the F60 for "overall driver experience".

I think the Bugatti will be better. Piech is determined to have the best car in the world. I don't think it will be hairy, just fast, and scary if you're not an experienced driver. We'll just have to wait and see what both of them end up like.

And the waits gonna be a killer:(

Found the article on spoilers. It is in the September 1998 Car and DRiver, from pages 147-153. The lip spoiler is on page 150. Teh pic seems to show it negating lift and drag. I will read the article and post more tommorrow.

Seems to? I want to see the article, the m.ore surface area, the more drag, not matter what

Well, spoilers work like an upside down airplane wing, whereas an airdam and side skirts keep air from getting under the car (thus negating lift, and even producing downforce).

Why do we need to read articles on it? What's the question that people have? It's all basically just simple physics and aerodynamics.

Oh, Chris, you're totally right about the Bugatti being a better car...for the experienced driver. However, I think the Veyron will be sold to the Bill Gates of the world, not the Alex Zanardis. Thus, I would personally prefer the Ferrari because...well...I could (?) drive it. 650 hp at my disposal is a lot more feasible than 1000+ (with a huge amount of torque).

But, I'm really not sure how the two will fair as track cars. Like I said, I think the Bugatti will be too heavy to really be a great handling car (which I'm SURE the F60 will be one of the greatest).
My predictions
Oval Track: Bugatti, hands down.
Curvy, country roads: F60

My point exactly. No F1 driver is going to get a EB 16/4, look at it for God's sake! It dosen't look like something you would drive around somewhere. No, It belongs in a garage with hundreds of other neglected cars that people buy because they can. If I could et one, I would beat the hell out of it and put 100,000 miles a year on it. No point in have a car that you don't drive. It under my philosophy that "You only live Once"

I hate to say it, but, IMO, that air dam is the ugliest I've seen in a long time.

Those cars could NEVER reach 100k miles. They are too much power for their own good.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the Bugatti is simply a trophy car. The EB110 was a great track car, but I really really think the Veyron won't be.

The F40 and F50 were both great track cars (even though it can be said that the F50 was more of a stylish car than a performance car), so it figures that the F60 will be too.

Actually a wing is the airfoil. A spoiler is a 'lip' at the back of the car. Any sporting car has one. It reduces lift and decreases drag. It is an excellent aero-dynamic aid. A wing takes undisturbed air, increasing drag. A spoiler takes air that the car has already affected, and lets it leave easier, decreasing drag and lift.

I read the article TWICE, by the way. Air dams and skirts are good all around also.

That seems strange....decreasing drag over the top of the car, would seem like it would likewise allow air passing over the top to move faster, which would cause lift.... I guess it's not just simply aerodynamics.

D'oh, I got spoiler and wing mixed up.

;)

I will read it again and post a longer reply.OR YOU could GO to the LIBRARY, and check up on the magazine. If you don't want to, I will have it up soon. Maybe.

Chris, You sound like you know what your all im going to ask is: Is a car's spoiler the same or similar to that of an aircraft? If so, it increases drag and decases lift, to slow the plane down and disrupt airflow causing less lift. Thw wing on a car (You were right Chris) does decrease lift and decrease drag. It (enzo) does allow air to move faster, but on a car, the wing is inverted so it produces faster moving air (Negative Pressure or Lift) on the other side pulling the car down instead of trying to lift it up.

Yes, I know how a wing (which I have always just called a spoiler) works....the air moves faster on the underside, creating downforce....

The point is that by adding a spoiler, you are increasing overall drag (more surface area). The point of a spoiler is putting more drag "on top" and less "on the bottom" (of the wing, or the overall car in general). The phrase "decreasing drag and lift" seems completely contradictory to me.

A spoiler can add drag (porsche 911 turbo, the 'whale tail' years).
A spoiler works on the Coanda effect. That is, air (or any gas or liquid) flows along like the surface it was on. Therefor, on a car, it goes DOWN the back, meeting the air from the bottom. This increses drag, but the air moving that way kinda (a little bit) decreases lift. Now, as far as I understand it, a spoiler causes the air to go up momentarily, flowing STRAIGT behind the car, not as much going down. This decreases drag. Now, the air UNDERNEATH the car has to come UP to the rear of the car, increasing the distance it has to travel, and therfor increasing speed and decreasing pressure going up (lift).
Now you see how it works. (they are in capitals just to highlight important stuff, not trying to make you look dumb. I have done that unintenially in the past:D )

That is a spoiler, the small 'lip' thing on the back of a car. It has nothing to do with aviation (actually, it does, but not for this reletively simple stuff)
A wing is a device that is an upside down airfoil. It decreases lift, but increases drag. If it is small enough, the drag will be slight. Sometimes it can actually decrease drag by letting the air out quicker and more efficiently. This all depends on a gazillion factors that are hard to understand.

Most magazines call small wings spoilers, which they are not.

Heres another example. On the 911 Turbo, it has a spoiler at first. Then it rises up into uninterupted air, in effect a wing. A true definition is hard to come by, as most people us the terms when they shouldn't.

A wing is a device that is an upside down airfoil. It decreases lift, but increases drag.

That's what I meant. I'm kind of relating it to airplanes. A Bi-plane has 2 wings (hence the name :p), which increase lift at low speeds, but create more drag, simply because the air hits the wing.

Well, that pretty much sums it up. I should have given a different example for spoiler. It's different on a plane. I also kinda get that thing with the F60. I saw "Le Mans" on the weekend and The ferrari's in the movie had "F60" tails. They weren't as big, but they must have served some purpose.