Huge Spoilers <GRRR>

One thing that is really starting to aggravate me is these big ass spoilers on all these front wheel drive cars. I just have to know...are they even functional? If they are, wouldn't increasing the downforce on the rear tires actually decrease traction? Just really bumming me out lately because I see alot F-bodys with them now. :(

not at all... friggin rice. usually goes along with the fart can and stickers

yeah, ive actually called out tuners in car shows in front of masses of people about it. they dont have an answer, they try to play it off by saying at speed it creates downforce on the rear for better traction so you dont fishtail. but for street cars, they are useless, and would as you say take pressure off the front tires, decreasing traction. at least on the maros, it puts pressure on the right tires.

not at all... friggin rice. usually goes along with the fart can and stickers

lmao.................. really

camaros should be one of the few cars with a spoiler in my opinion. they just dont look right w/out one.

you should see a neon with stick on hood scoops, 10in. wing and a fart can. the little bastard keeps circling my car when it's parked and reving his engine. i'm gonna drag him out of car tear his head off one a these days

those people are the reason i wouldn't mind a hummer... he wont be so tough after his neon is glued to a grill

A wing on the rear of a FWD car helps the same way it does on a RWD car. if you see a wing on a FWD car, it's most likley there for cosmetic purposes but every car in the Honda Challenge racing series in California has a wing. A wing will help any car regardless of wether it's FWD RWD or AWD.

By the way, I don't go looking around domestic forums for arguments, this topic was in the list of 5 new posts on the first page of the forum, that's how I found it.

ill bite, why does it help?

Without a wing, the rear end of the car can sometimes step out. A wing, bieng the proper size and height, can help prevent this, even if the car is FWD.

well im sure no one actually looks into the correct size and height, they just shoot for what looks good

Thats while cornering, or at high speeds... but what about in drag racing, where the weight shift moves to the rear of a car and off a FWD car's drive wheels, why would you want more weight of downforce back there?

I swear, i once had a kid tell me my car would look good with a hood scoop... It took me 10 minutes to explain to him that i have a Mid Engine, and the air scoop isnt going to do anything but cool my spare tire...

sorry integra, not really looking for a fight, but u came to the wrong place sporting the "v8's are unreliable" part of your sig. say that to my friend's 67 chevelle, that he found after it had sat for, as the owner put it, "long as hell" (found out about 4 years). he started the engine right up, no joke, first try (with a new battery of course). now, i don't really know when honda started making automobiles (frankly i couldn't give a fuck) but if there are any 37-year-old honda's running around that sat for 4 years, then started right up, i would say you had found yourself a miracle.

p.s. where do you get the grounds to say that anyway? how many v8's have you owned, that died on you, while ur little honda is still truckin w/ its 150hp?

p.p.s. keep in mind, that every car is reliable as long as it has a competent driver that maintains it :loser:

In his defense i think that was a misconception listed... but im questioning the torque one

i don't know, that misconception thing has me confused because some make sense, but the v8 one doesn't unless, like you said, its listed as a misconception, not a statement. i don't know but he is in the wrong place to have that if he is downing v8's

Automotive MISCONCEPTIONS:
2 cars race with same HP and weight, the car with more torque will win.
V8 cars are unreliabe.
FWD cars don't need rear wings for road racing.
There is no replacement for displacement.
No Japanese car will ever beat a McLaren F1 in a drag race.
If 2 cars with the same HP race, the lighter one will win.
A RWD car will always launch better than a FWD car.
Vtec is for saving gas, not making horsepower.


I see what you mean... i def. disagree with some... and the last ones a joke methinks :P

i don't know man, honda's do make good gas mileage. that's about the only upside i ever saw to one...

lol thats what im saying... it says that a misconception is that its for gas not power... im saying that its true not a misconception lol

lol thats what im saying... it says that a misconception is that its for gas not power... im saying that its true not a misconception lol

yea, i think we've pretty muche determined that his sig, is just way out of wack. must be because he's missin 4 cylinders...

MISCONCEPTIONS, things that people think are true that aren't. I know V8s are reliable, but ignorant people talk shit about them saying they break down too much. you guys see the Honda badge and strart treating me like an outsider eh? :p

VTEC is NOT for saving gas, is so you can run a low duration/low lift cam below 4400 RPm, after 4400RPM the cam profilce changes, trust me...do a google search on a vtec cam or a skunk2 cam and you'll get it.


EDIT: I dunno about wings on drag racing Hondas, but the Honda Challenge race I mentioned earlier is a road racing series. And some people DO tune thier rear wings...without a wind tunnel.

yea, i think we've pretty muche determined that his sig, is just way out of wack. must be because he's missin 4 cylinders...

uh.... man... you sayin im missing 2?...... heh

MISCONCEPTIONS, things that people think are true that aren't. I know V8s are reliable, but ignorant people talk shit about them saying they break down too much. you guys see the Honda badge and strart treating me like an outsider eh?

nah we just all suck at english... its ok i dont think any of us are from england

yea, i think we've pretty muche determined that his sig, is just way out of wack. must be because he's missin 4 cylinders...


I'm not 'missing' any cylenders, 4 cylenders makes enough power to propel my lighterweight chassis. Just because I drive a Honda does'nt make a ricer who revs at mustangs, wears altezzas, and think vtec is the best thing for engines since gasoline. To be honest, I'm more biased towards biger engines, I feel a V6 engine is the best engine configuration design (or a flat 6, but they're too expensive :p )

VTEC... most over-rated engine ever!, and fuck the gas milage! Who the hell cares how many miles per gallon your getting when your going down a 1/4 mile. About the spoilers on Camaros... 93-02 Camaros have almost no air pushing down on the rear-end. Thats why I put that fin on mine... I figured anything would help. As for those big spoilers for 93-02 I think they look lame, but they probably do a lot of good. 1 more thing... why would you think that a 6 is the best engine?... if you really want the most potential why wouldn't you get an 8? I've never seen a top fuel dragsters with a 6.

Do you even know what vtec does? After 4400RPM the cam profivle change to a cam lobe that has longer duration and higher lift, running a cam like that on the streets would be very hard...the car probably would'nt idle. It's an amzing system that lets you change from a gas-saving cam profile, to a cam profile that looks like it belongs on a racecar. Obviosly you think it's just some dinky useless shit made by honda.

Go find a picture of a vtec cam, try to understand what it does, then maybe you'll understand the importance of cams.

Who cares what a Vtec does... all I know is its NOT fast!

wow, i feel i must apologize for the camaro community here integra818, we all rednecks, dont take it personal. guys im afraid im gonna have to side with integra on this one, he never started bashing v8's or camaros, only tried to stick up for the fact that some imports use the rear wings for actual downforce. although ill still question weather or not you will ever see one of those imports on the street. also, i have seen VTEC engines that are fast, however, none of them stock, so ill stay neautral on that one and not take sides. also, ill argue the misconception about torque, same hp, and same weight, im assuming all other things being equil, the cars are identical, save one has more torque??? or are you also including gearing, tire size, stall speed, and such???? its pretty open ended to say thats a misconception. torque is the force that accelerates a car from rest, or to a higher speed, so naturaly one that can exert more force will accelerate faster. given equil hp to that of the other car of course. now if you were to say a car with less hp, but more torque will always win, then id say id agree with you.

It's cool man, nothing personal :)

About the torque thing...one car can have a torque advantage, but if they're the same hp, then the other one has an RPM advantage. Alot of people might disagree, but RPM is just as important as torque.

When I say 2 cars having the same weight, it reffers to 2 different cars, such as an Integra GSR with 170HP 128LBS of torque, and a Nissan sentra Spec V which has 180 HP and about 170 LBS of torque, most people would argue that the sentra would beat the integra, but I've beaten many Spec V's in my GSR :p


P.s. Torque X RPM /5252= HP

Find a camaro/civic/geo dyno chart, pick an RPM, and multiply the torque number at that RPM by the RPM number you've chosen...you'll get the HP level at that RPM, try it.

See high spoiler's on imports don't bother me, I don't even care about the lawnmower exhaust with the fast and Furious stickers everywhere what bother's me is when I see a hot Vette, Camaro , Firebird , Trans Am and Impalla'sall riced out with sticker's fabricated front ends. Neon lights and swapped out interiors. They are ruining the good muscle car name of F-body's , Y-body's and B-body's everywhere. Like this thread where the guy tells me he isn't a ricer then ask's about neon lights http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=238000 and for all those people talking crap about VTec and I'm a true Muscle car guy I have yet to own a import but my friends Honda S2000 stock is as fast or faster than any stock LT1 I ever saw and I know another guy who has a supercharged S2000 and I have raced him with my Modded LT1 and he smoke's me everytime and I think he even paid less in mods

Yeah, there is nothing I hate more than riced-out f-bodies... but I can't really talk because I get a lot of people mad at me because they think mine is with the "sunset gold" paint job. The funny thing is I bought it stock from an Asian kid in Oakland... the only thing he had done to it was the paint... yeah I know, "sure ya did".
1 more thing. Sure there are fast rice burners, but with enough money anything can be fast. I just prefer a v8 cause it has more potencial to be faster than a 4 or 6. I got my Z for $6000 (and thats not even a good deal)... now what rice burner will be as fast for that much money?

I like the color and its not ricey if you don't have the decals neon lights and all that crap but ofcourse your going to pay less for your car most older Import sports cars are over priced I.E RX7, Supra , VR4 . but hell its not like you can use the excuse you paid less after one of these cars kick your a$$ in a race , Not that it would happen just saying

Well your right... If you get smoked, ya get get smoked. Its depressing to admit, but I got my doors blown off in my '86 Iroc by a CRX with Nitrous :( ... don't tell anyone

lol, yeah, i got beat in the RS by a turbo'd civic, it happens to us all from time to time ;) and actually, while i will never drive an import, i have to admit, ive started looking at an 02 cavalier, but im planning a few... um... special mods ;) hopefully something no one has ever done before, but need a bit more research before i feel confident gettin started.

Ya wanna hear something really lame?... I saw a Dodge Viper get smoked by a Civic... now lets never speak of this again.

hahahahahaha :) i dont like vipers either, that makes me happy ;)

Don't like Viper's?. The Viper is a 10 cyclinder American sports car that come stock with enough power to make a Porshe owner cry how could you not like that.

very simple, i may like speed, power, and american IRON, but i also like finess, some class, and personaly cant stand a braggart. the viper was WAYYYY over pressed, and got more attention than it really deserved in my opinion. its horribly ineffecient, with 8.0L of displacement it should be making 700hp. stock it only gets like 65hp per liter, and thats at the new 500hp rating. its really not all that fast. and i dont find the new body style attractive at all. im a vette guy all the way. gimmi a C5 Z06 over any of the vipers anyday. ill take the money i saved not buying the viper and get lingenfelter inc. to drop in a 427 mill making 500hp running 0-60 in 3.6 seconds, and quarter miles in the low 11's. and do it in full creature comfort, with attitude to boot. and dont get me started on the C6 coming out. oh man i cant wait to drive one of those things :)

I love Chevy...but come on man, Vipers are fucking bad ass!... fastest american made car and they look mean as hell. The only thing cooler then a Viper is a '69 Camaro SS

lol, sorry man, i just dont like em, kinda like ugly girls, you can find em made in america, and they might be as "fast" as you could ever want. but that still dont mean im gonna date one. ;)

I love GM but I would so take a Viper over a Z06 and I have driven a Viper and raced a Z06 but the Viper is perfect for what its meant for its a no frills true sports car and it may not have comfy seats or climate control and if the engine was producing all the power it possibly could where would the room for improvement be?

theres always room for improovment, i believe his name is hennessy ;)

well, at least for you viper boys, ill stand proudly by the banner of lingenfelter inc. ;)

need i remind yall, that the fastest production car ever made, was a modified vette, with a twin turbocharged C5-R derived 427cid LS6 engine that ran 0-60 in 1.9 seconds, and quarter mile in 9.46 seconds at 147mph???? less hp than the hennessy vipers to be sure, but it did much better with what it had. remember, power and displacement are nothing without the ability to harness them, the overall design of the viper is effective, but it soon overpowers its design, whereas the vette with its modern design can adapt and take advantage of upgraded power.

Lingenfelter is the Man but don't tell that to Callaway.

lol

I dunno know man... everything on the 2004 viper is designed with a purpose. And how many of that vette were made and where they ever sold to the public. The Viper has 10 cilinders and 500hp, yeah it could have more... but its gotta smog

MISCONCEPTIONS, things that people think are true that aren't. I know V8s are reliable, but ignorant people talk shit about them saying they break down too much. you guys see the Honda badge and strart treating me like an outsider eh? :p

VTEC is NOT for saving gas, is so you can run a low duration/low lift cam below 4400 RPm, after 4400RPM the cam profilce changes, trust me...do a google search on a vtec cam or a skunk2 cam and you'll get it.


EDIT: I dunno about wings on drag racing Hondas, but the Honda Challenge race I mentioned earlier is a road racing series. And some people DO tune thier rear wings...without a wind tunnel.

so thats why it takes my import friends 4500 rpms to get to where im at at 2000rpm.... is that good though? more rpms = more fuel

so thats why it takes my import friends 4500 rpms to get to where im at at 2000rpm.... is that good though? more rpms = more fuel


Are you saying your import friend has to get to 4500 RPM to get to the Hp level that you have at 2000?!? That does'nt mean shit to me. It's like me telling you that you need an extra 200 HP to get to the power to weight ratio of a civic. Meaningless numbers. You might as well brag about how much trunk space you have.



note: I don't know how much Camaros weigh, I just threw 200 Hp in there just for example.

calm the fuck down, i wasn't braggin. i drove a 99 civic, a 02 crv, 04 mazda 3, 02 maxima, and 03 mpv (most pussy vehicle)... they all started making their power at around 4500 rpm... which is weak i dont give a fuck how light ur car is. where as i hardly ever take my car past 4k rpms and cruise around 80 at 1500 rpm..
i wasn't braggin at all, i just read your shit about vtec using a different cam after 4400rpm... the mazdas i drove had variable valve timing and dual overhead cams. thats the equivalent of honda's vtec. anyway i swear to god i wouldn't trade a V6 camaro (not to even compare z28) for any honda u can throw at me. its not about speed or power or any of that shit... what matters is at the end of the day, im still driving a camaro.

I wouldnt mind getting one of those hybrid civics to drive to work everyday. I dont like the imports lack of torque though. Im kind of partial to the whole no replacement for displacement thing. If you take any honda engine and do it up and compare it with a 5.7L dont up similar it wont even contend. If u add a turbo to the honda, well then your comparing two different things, add a turbo to the v8, your back where you started. Wings serve no performance purpose putting around town showing off your car, I dont see how you could think anything else?

So what if it does'nt make power below 4400 RPM. I launch at 5K, if my did'nt have power below 5K, I sure as hell would'nt care because I'm never below 5k when I race. you don't need horsepower to pull out of your driveway.

You've got to realise that the powerband for most 4cyl imports is in the High RPM range, so what if it does'nt make power until 4K, the engine goes up to 7500 or sometimes 8000.


And another thing, why is it that when a group of mustang/camaro/firebird owners talk about imports, it always refers to civics?!? Let's not forget the supra, RX-7, 300zx, and 3000gt, all of which are in the 13's if you slightly raise the boost. Does it not amaze you that there is an 8 second street driven 4 cylender car driving around california???

because ricers dont drive those cars genius, supra (ok some are alrite, but the last one i seen had a shitcan duct taped to its plastic bumper), rx-7 (93+ is sweet, 93- is garbage, when was the last time u seen one, i know i havent in a while), 300zx(only the tt deserves recognition), 3000gt(the vr4 barely keeps up with a z28, which is shit for awd)... most importantly, walk outside and look around your block... im 99.9% sure you'll see at least 10 honda's on each block, and at least 7 of them are civics. what good is power if you can't use it?

it does NOT at all amaze me that there is some 4 cylinder cars doing 8 sec. it can be done. just like i can drive with my feet but that dont make it a good fuckin idea! besides the 8 sec 4 cyl cars u speak of are ANYTHING but stock... stripped, rollcages, and all that shit... plus they spent at least $100k on the engine, and in the end its just a 4 cyl..

As bad as the baddest outlaws in the import class are, they are no comparison for the equivalent class of domestics. (this was takin from an import book, which i ahem... read. [know thy enemy]) if the v8s were allowed to turbocharge their engines all imports would be smoked, like it or not, its true. unless imports start coming out w/ v8s and high displacement... (think what a v8 with dohc and vtec can do)

v8s have more potential than 4 bangers for obvious reasons.

i dont know about not needing power to pull out of the driveway, but it sure is a lot more fun with 300-some ft-lbs of torque under your foot.

i dont know about not needing power to pull out of the driveway, but it sure is a lot more fun with 300-some ft-lbs of torque under your foot.

haha amen to that... even tho ive only got 225... better than my dad's 133 hah (hyundai elantra... and ive actually been in it and raced some civics and won lol)

Just so you know, Honda made a V8 back in the late 80's. It was twin turbo and put out 1500+ HP. Oh yeah..it lasted 2 hours in an F1 race...and it was 1.5 liters.

thats great! what does that have to do with anything in this thread? r u trying to tell me there is a production honda with that engine? cuz if there is i might convert to a honda fan. :uhoh: nahhh... i still wont.

thats great! what does that have to do with anything in this thread?.


1. it's a V8
2. It's built by Honda

Almost every car maker has fancy race engines that are high revving small displacement beasts. Whats the difference, they would suck in a normal car. Why compare an engine thats never been run on the street and probably wouldnt last an hour driving around on the street in car.

Why compare an engine thats never been run on the street and probably wouldnt last an hour driving around on the street in car.


The other dude mentioned Japanese companies lack of V8 engines, I told him that there are really good v8 engines made by Honda, wether or not they're fit to be in a production car is out of the question. It's like saying;

A: exausts don't add horsepower
B: Yeah they do
C: So what, they're loud.

'A' bieng the camro guy, 'B' bieng me, and 'c' bieng you.



I'm ok with you guys hating Honda, but you guys are acting like I'm the one who started the rice fad or something, relax...I'm just a car guy like you guys, no need to argue. Don't take it out on me, I don't really like Hondas that much either, I rather have a Nissan.

I don't really like Hondas that much either, I rather have a Nissan.

With a huge top fuel dragster style spoiler on the trunk lid? The whole point of this thread was that people should stop living in the nonsense world of the Fast and Furious. Probably the worst movie I have ever had the displeasure of watching.

1. It was never put into any Honda you can actually buy.
2. It probably cost a fortune to build.
3. It lasted for 2 hours???
4. It WAS TWIN TURBO, not N/A! And run on racefuel. On top of that I believe it was a 4 cyl, probably a v4. I read about it somewhere too. I dont think a 1.5l v8 is possible.
5. It has nothing to do with ricer mentality or ur stupid spoilers and fuckin blitz body kits that do nothing but add drag and make you look stupid.
6. I could throw a buch of engines GM made with a shitload of hp and no practicality, but I'm not gonna, cuz they didn't put those in the camaro! But there is a production GM engine that makes over 800hp on pump gas, does Honda have one of those?

I don't hate Honda, its just not my style. But there are some good things about them. Decent looks, which goes away when you put gay stickers, body kits, altezzas, and spoilers on. Practicality, which goes away when you put over 300hp on a 4cyl engine. The engines are built very well, except for a few, they can handle nearly twice as much hp as they have stock without any internal modifications.

Since you brought up Nissan, they actually do make production v8s, unfortunately they go into Pathfinder Armadas. I heard one of those, and it sounded extremely well for an import. It would really kick ass if they put that in the 350z. Till then, Nissan needs to shift_growsomeballs.

Omg! I think vipers look like lil toy cars........!

srry don't know where my last post came from i was looking at two pages b4 this one on the viper talk.......I feel so outta place lol!