Exhaust Horsepower Increase

I just bought an 80 series exhaust for my v-6 firebird and i was wondering how much horsepower it will give me. The magazine said it gave the 5.7 15 wheel horsepower which is about 30 to the crank. So if i get the 10% also wont i get an extra 20?

First of all, no offense, but i just want to say to you YOU R A RETARD.....did you not search this forum enough to realize not to get flowmaster on a v6 fbody??? It is good on v8's but not on v6's you might get 2 maybe 3 RWHP and that's about it if ur lucky enough to get that.

:uhoh: you gotta remember too that the 350 has a better exhaust system overall; better exhaust manifolds (or headers on the ls1/lt1) than you have on your v-6. Even on the 350 i doubt you would gain 15 rwhp; I would be impresed with a 10 horse gain. Besides sounding nice, you most likely won't be able to tell a difference anyways, but maybe a 5-10 horse gain to the rear wheels (id guess closer to *possibly* 15 at the crank)

B&B dynoed a 17whp gain on a stock LT1 car with their system which is supposed to be the best, so I'd imagine they all fall between 10-20whp on the V8 cars.

Your probably not going to pickup more than 5 or 10 as said because the V6 aren't as factory restricted as the V8's.

On a side note I'd like to say that Squirrel is an asshole for ripping on somebody like that. If your annoyed that he did not search, or are unwilling to answer his question, try not responding to his thread.

i got the exhaust for the sound, not for the horsepower, i was just curious about the power. So i ges i'm not retarded, WOW!

i got the exhaust for the sound, not for the horsepower, i was just curious about the power. So i ges i'm not retarded, WOW!
you spelled guess ges...you are retarded. j/k haha

.....On a side note I'd like to say that Squirrel is an asshole for ripping on somebody like that. If your annoyed that he did not search, or are unwilling to answer his question, try not responding to his thread.
hey asshole i said no offense in the beginning and i did answer his question wo wtf r u talking about?

so far in this thread, squirrel has not been able to make one post without a personal attack on someone. (everyone besides me so far) Even if you did say no offense, theres no need to make personal attacks.


I also find this somewhat curious; you rip on him in your post about getting an exhaust on his V6 -bird, but in your sig. it says that you put headers, high flow cat, and magnaflow exhaust on yours........ :eek7: whats the deal?

flowmaster and v6 firebird ...not a good match

...I also find this somewhat curious; you rip on him in your post about getting an exhaust on his V6 -bird, but in your sig. it says that you put headers, high flow cat, and magnaflow exhaust on yours........ :eek7: whats the deal?

:disappoin dumbshit....by making that post you shoulda known i was comin ur way.....one...i did not rip him for having exhaust i ripped him for having Flowmaster on a v6 that is a straight up :nono:. two....no offense means no offense.

congratualtions on proving that you cannot have a civil conversation, and just politely answer Arsenik's question.

I have a gold star and a cookie for you

Is it oatmeal raisin? those are my favorites.:rofl:

flowmasters are a mistake on any 4th gen fbody

saying that.... you will see about 5 hp to the wheels, a few more if you have other things done to the car a few less if it is older and has a good exhaust on it already

american cars are a waist of money anyway, so dont feel bad about getting a flowmaster.
for power, you wont feel a thing after the flowmaster.
if i were you id sell it and look for a real car, not a farm boy firenerd.

american cars are a waist of money anyway, so dont feel bad about getting a flowmaster.
for power, you wont feel a thing after the flowmaster.
if i were you id sell it and look for a real car, not a farm boy firenerd.


and what all mighty car do you own?
i think every one of my american cars would rape your mx3

cndct if i had an mx3 your cars may be able to rape it, but where did you come up with the mx3?
lol, when it comes to cars, any decent import can take a 350-auto 700r4 american junkie with 5500 pounds of weight.

5500 pounds? where did that come from? when it comes to cars any decent 550-auto 700r4 american junkie with 3500 pounds of weight can destroy a decent import

i mean 350

some firebirds are 4500 pounds and they are 2- door cars, i was thinking about the 4-door american cars with bigger engines like impala ss and crap like that.

sorry you own the all mighty gonna beat everything on earth mx 6 ....... ( oooooooo we all shiver )

anyways i have yet to see an import that costs less than my car and with less money into it can outrun my car
or for that matter out handle my car

even at that thier are more aftermarket parts for a 89 5.0 mustang than thier are for half of the imports out thier put together

i dont know maybe i am wrong maybe this whole 1.8l 200hp thing is beter than my 5.7l 340hp..... nope i still make more hp

most 4th gen verts weigh 3500 lbs the leightest import i can think of off the top of my head is the lotus elise and thats 2k lbs

teach me i am an open minded person teah me why imports are so much better

ok buddy, japanese mx6 klze with aftermarket turbo produces 290 hp fwd(and you can go on from there), your farm boy mustang might be faster than that 1.8 integra in an ALABAMA highway but there is no way that thing handles better and races better in "streets". First of all, imports are way more reliable than domestic cars, ive had 2 trans ams, one firebird, one neon before, neon was ok but the firebirds were breaking down left and right.Also these 305 engines that were on GMS 82-92 have knocking problems, they all start knocking at mileages after 100k. ( ALL OF THESE JUNKIE ENGINES LEAK OIL LIKE CRAZY)Ive also had Rx7,and two mx6s and ive noticed that these imports dont break down!Its just maybe the experience that ive had with my cars but i have worked in pontiac dealer 2 years ago and there were pontiac GRAND PRIXs coming in with 20000 miles and needed new transmissions, there are so many junk GMs running around. Even GM mechanics know these cars dont worth the money, but ask any honda/mazda/toyota technician, they love the cars they service.
If you dont beleive these, can you explain me why american cars are not sold worldwide?
you can sell and service a toyota/honda/mazda anywhere in the world. These cars have a reputation worldwide. But there are no dealers of pontiacs-buicks-chevrolet's in europe nor in asia.
(You can only get these american cars overseas in private dealers that ship cars from U.S.)
Since you know so much about you domestic mobiles, tell me why.
(Also, the Fords you see in Europe are not american made nor engineered, Ford models in europe are engineered either in UK or in Germany, with different engine sizes than in US. )

[ Even GM mechanics know these cars dont worth the money, but ask any honda/mazda/toyota technician, they love the cars they service.
If you dont beleive these, can you explain me why american cars are not sold worldwide?
you can sell and service a toyota/honda/mazda anywhere in the world. These cars have a reputation worldwide.[/QUOTE]


Alright ,first off no one was arguing that imports aren't mass produced, we all see hundreds of civics and integras every day. Second my dad has been a GM technichain for 20 years and the only thing he'll buy is a GM car, and the same thing with every one he works with, so i don't know where you got that whole idea from. And last, the point to this whole conversation was that any decent domestic can beat any decent import (if theres such thing)

gmctruck your dad buys GMs because thats all he can work on, and he gets deals on parts and stuff. In order to own a GM and keep it in a decent shape you either have to be a mechanic at GM or make over 200k a year anyways.
gmctruck dont even start a conversation on GM quality, lol here Ill give you some GM quality pointers
- all GMs before 93 have headliners sagging out the window.
- power window switched die in about a year or two
- auto tranmission' slipping problem can start as early as 15k miles.
-Seats will be torn apart in 4-5 years most( cloth )
-in all GMs up to 93 you will notice black/gray smoke coming out when you first start the P.O.S. because damn think leaks oil in liters.
- if you have a cavalier/sunfire 95-04 the damn interior's plastic's color starts to fade (also the steering wheel becomes light gray/white)
ITS JUST CHEAP! but costs lots of money

-----but, you dont see these happen as often in 80s and early 90s hondas/acuras/mazdas/toyotas.

lol all he can work on? he has worked on many of his friends imports. I had an 89 supra n/a and he rebuilt the engine in it. i finally sold the car because it had so many electrical problems lights windows etc. And all cars will have problems imports or domestic. I have a 1980 gmc truck and it dosent have any of those problems you say.Again the point to all this was a decent domestic will beat a decent import.

obviously your dad didnt do a good job in working on the supra lol.
and your 1980 gmc truck is the greatest thing on eart, faster than any import and can overrun the hummer h1 off road , right?

alright man, the supras rebuilt engine ran great it had problems cause it was junk and cheaply made. as for the truck i was trying to say it was reliable but yea it could proably take an mx6.

ok gmctruck you gotta wake up, you have been hypnotised by your daddy.
1) supras are not cheaply made
2) your gmctruck could not even take a damn kia rio, a mazda would not even race a 1980 p.o.s. gmc, those truck use up more engine oil than fuel, leaking all over what the hell are you talking about lol. oh yea you probably have one of those cheap ass pickups with the white walled buick tires, and a manual shifter knob extends 3 foot out looking like a dildo.lol ( timeless american design aahaahah)

alright kid im about done arguing with you but first i want to say supras have lots of electrical problems there not as good as people say, believe me i had one for three years, i think you've been watching the fast and the furious to much. And as for the truck it has no engine oil problems but it does have a freshley rebuilt 454 in it so the only reason a mazda wouldnt race it would be because they were to afraid after hearing the engine. :biggrin:

lol, well i think you have been watching the 70s BANDIT for too long, even if you have 454 in that pos, its still the old ugly ass gmc , " dress up a fat ugly girl in the best clothes and what do you get? still an ugly ass girl" thats how your truck is, no matter what you do to it, its just a old ugly ass truck. You had a supra for 3 years and the thing was the year 89, so you dont know who drove it, it could have been an abused car by some freak, you never know. Also, just because your supra was crap does not mean all the supras have had those problems that year, it could just have been yours.
( oh yea, your gifted GM technician DADDY might be a factor in that supra's problems )lol
- he is so gifted he can fix up anything, super ROBOMECHANIC lol

I'm not gonna sit here and argue imports vs domestics all day, I actually like some of both but when it comes to imports they don't come stock with as much power as some american cars. Show me a stock import that can beat a stock 2000 camaro SS, zo6 or viper, there are none. And don't say that if you put $3,000 into the import it would win because if you put the same $3,000 into one of the above mentioned american cars they would still own the little import. And I think reliability is about equal. We owned a 86 camry, bought it new, and it completely died after only like 12,000 miles and needed extensive engine work. My friends 200sx also never ran even after spending well over 1,000 to fix it. Also our 94 accord has had many more problems than out 1990 dodge, including over the years every door handle breaking off multiple times and large parts of the interior breaking/cracking etc.

nissan skyline , 2005 audi s4 with v8 twin turbos, 2003 eu based golf gti with turbocharged 300 hp vr6 r32, 2004 mitsu lancer evo vIII RS ( 0-60 in 4 secs), Mercedes-Benz slk55 AMG (367 hp) these are only some of the imports that can rape the good old camaros.
also the 94 accord was the best selling car in its class and the most reliable one, so i dont know how you drive your cars, it just may be you.

I like all those points that korrrray made earlier about GM vehicles, it's too true!

korrray i dunno why your talkin so big win you drive an mx6 lol. those things have like 165 hp, most v6 firebirds in here would beat you. and you can argue that imports are more reliable all day but still GM still sells more cars then any other company so they most be doin somethin right. and for sayin the stuff about the 70s smokey and the bandit i dunno wtf your talkin about im only 23 year old girl. and the truck my not look as good as your 165 hp mazda but it would still blow the doors off it in a race, and you would be getting beat by a girl. :iceslolan

ok here, ill make it easy for you to read , ill list
1) you dont have to be 45 years old to watch the bandit show
2)v6 firebirds are worthless, stock mx6 comes with 165 hp and can be improved easily to 290 with the right japanese setup, its the american version that has the 165hp.
3)when you race its nor just how much hp your vehicle has.
4) you cant street race anyone with a 24 year old truck ( damn the thing is older than you are lol)
5)you cant even change lanes with that ugly truck, how the hell you gonna race an import? signal left and weight for the old lady in lincoln to give you the right of way? ahahahhaha
So its not all about how much hp the car produces, its about how the overall car uses the power it produces, this is what you dont understand.
Also its about the style too.
-------
note: firebirds' body were build for the 350 5.7, they were not built for 3.8, that car is too damn big for a v6, a v6 firebird can not even take a grand am gt with the v6-ram air set up ( a 4-door ahahah).
so dont even start me on v6 firenerds.

let me list it for you:

1.The truck would kill you (don't be jelaous of the 454)
2.A v6 firbird 3.8 would kill you
3.your car is slow
4. your car is slow (165hp lol)

1- i can take your truck with a lawnmower lol
2- v6 firebird until 96 new body had 130 hp, you are saying 165 hp is slow,
3-1984 firebird trans am 305 v8 only produced 167 hp
4-in 1986 the v8 only made 180.
until 1988 and come up with the 5.7 fuel injected GM could not even produce a car over 200 hp.
lol these are the MUSCLE CARS OF AMERICA. hahahahahha
- oh, these cars are 160 some hp and rear wheel drive, making them real slow in pick up.
the v6 model for these with the 2.8 v6 were only making around 120-135 hp depending on year.
- and you say lighter import, with 10 times better aerodynamics with 165 is slow? lol

also front drive to, making it pick up faster, no differentials to worry about

1.I would rather drive a lawn mower then an mx6 lol
2.I said 3.8 that puts out 200 hp not any of that other stuff but 93-95 had 3.4 with 160 hp

1) you already drive a lawn mower truck
2) you prove my point

alright enough about the truck if your not smart enough to know that a 454 would kill your mx6 then i feel sorry for you. And what do you mean i proved your point. Im saying a 3.8 firebird would kill your car. Your point was trying to say that your mx6 is faster then every other car out there.You say that only the american version comes with 165hp and it can be easily upgraded, well guess what you have the american version and its not upgraded.

ok so know that i am edjucated in the ways of the import .... doesn't ford own a good chunk of mazda?

o well thats besides the point

you argue that thier are many imports that are faster than american cars
skyline= stock for stock i thaught they ran low 13'w
but they still dont count because they dont sell them over here
audi=80 some odd thousand dollar car, still doesn't put down z06 numbers at twice the price
golf=only gay guys or hot chicks buy them so they dont count (j/k) never heard of a 300hp one but im sure the ls1 would outrun it
evo8=nice car ill give you that one
amg=367hp well my lt1 has outran them so they dont help your argument

94 accord best selling car in class
ford f150 best selling vehicle on planet
domestic wins that

then you go on to argue about 84 and 88 camaros
find specs on an 84 mazda tell me they put out alot more power than that
ok on the aerodynamics... not sure the real drag coefficiant on an mx6 but i know the 3rd gen TA's were low like .28-.32 range wich is very very low. correct me if im wrong wasn't the charger daytona the first car ever in a wind tunnel
and gm sepnt millions on gettnig the c5 to be very drag cf friendly

so now its your turn to reply give me some more (facts) about imports

well, this is not a fair game then, you are comparing imports in only U.S. with american cars in homeland.
You say big chunk of mazda is owned by Ford, ok i know that but also jaguar and aston martin is owned by ford, so what, its just the money matters.
and you said give me a mazda in 80s that makes same hp with the trans ams
84-91 mazda rx7 150-160 hp
87-92 mazda rx7 turbo II 200 hp.
80s mazda mx6 turbos 145 hp ( more than firebird )
and keep in mind that most of these cars manuals, and they can rape the automatic heavy american cars of the same year.
you say gay guys drive golfs , man look at the people who drive camaros and firebirds,lol
-----cndc i have a serious question for u----
if the f bodies are so great, why dont they sell any?
i dont know where u r from, but in maryland (not southern lol) no one buys them, at pontiac dealer in baltimore, md firebird in year 2000 averaged about a sale of 1 car a month.
i guess there is something that makes people twice before investing 30k on a firebird ( a nice model not a 22k trashbird) .

gmctruck are you a middle school drop out or something? cant you read and understand what you read? i never said the mx6 can beat everything or some bull like that, i just said it was a decent reliable car.
your truck may take an mx6 on an ALABAMA highway with population of 67 people. But here in the city your truck with the 454 cant do nothing, if you re having fun racing in a highway with noone around , have fun, but thats not you racing,lol thats the truck racing. You might as well put a rock in the gas pedal and lock the steering wheel and see how fast the truck goes.(if thats what you are into)
also i have driven many firebird with the 3.8, and no they can not take a v6 mx6, 30 hp is not that much of a difference, when there is about 600 pounds of weight difference between two cars and the fact that firebirds are autos and the 6 is stick, + the firebird is rear wheel drive .

korrray, thats like the third time ive heard you use the whole "ALABAMA highway" thing.Ive never raced anyone on the highway.But every night i go out i always end up smokin some guy like you in a little import that thinks hes all that.Just cause it heavier then imports dosent mean it dosen't catch up off the line.I would still kill an mx6 from a stop in the "BIG CITY" you live in.And i still say a v6 bird would blow by you.I don't know where you got the whole 3.8 firebirds only come in auto thing because they can be stick too.And that 30 hp might not be that much of a diffrence but its enough.And what are you doing anyways,coming into a firebird forum trash talkin about american cars? :screwy: We all know your excited about your little mx6 but please go talk about it with the other people who own these little 165hp beasts.

korrrray where u live i wanna show u what a good ole fashion AMERICAN asswoopin is all about:smooch:....PINK SLIPS bitch, u think my v6 firebird aint got shit then bring it asshole, my domestic ("POS" in ur opinion) will rape u so bring it the fuck on!!!!!:thefinger:ylsuper:and for the record imports are less reliable, proven in a test by car and driver!!!.....so i think i'll leave it at u wanna race it's on only other thing i have to say is ...... :loser::lol2:..:biggrin2::thefinger..:bricks1::gri nno:..:slap:..:nutkick:..:twak:..:swear::flipa:..: chair:oh yea and.....:newbie:!!!

squirrel nuts, a classic firebird owner, cussing in the forums,cant even discuss anything,
--------
also, gmctruck 3.8 firebirds 99% ara all autos, you have to order the 5 speed most dealers dont even have any with the manual because automatic trans. is standard on all firebirds unlike mustangs.
im reading the firebird forum because i've had 2 trans ams and 1 firebird before, and i look at what people think about them.
pontiac firebird ( 3.8l v6)
0-60 7.5 seconds
1/4 mile 16.5 seconds@ 84 mph
top speed (*est) 105 mph
price 22.825 ( varies )
-----------------
1994 mazda mx6( stock with 2.5 v6)
0-60 7.3 sec
1/4 mile 15.7sec@85mph
top speed (*est) 135 mph
price: 14k-21k (varies)
---------
these are the specs i got from internet. these are both when the cars are stock. As you can see even 4-6 year newer firebird is not faster than a 94 mx6.
also what kind of 1980 gmc truck do you have? what model?

Standard trans do come standard on a firebird. Where did you get the internet specs? My truck is a silverado c10, yes i know thats a chevy but you where talking about GM and i was saying that it was a GM truck.

i have the dealer catalog that sales managers and sales persons use for selling firebirds and for the car they compare firebirds to mustangs, it sais
standard optional
mustang v6 5-sp. manual 4 speed auto
firebird v6 4 speed auto 5 sp. manual
mustang GT 5 sp. manual 4 speed auto
f.T/A 4 speed auto 6 speed manual
----------------------
this is what the catalog sais. catalog is for year 2000, but nothing changed from 2000-2002 in transmission choices.
You can also get the 4 cylinder grand ams 5 speed manual (not GTs) but they are special order too. Most dealer never even received any manual G/Ams
--------- when i say optional, i dont mean you have to pay extra, but I think you have to order it, since many dealers do not order any manuals.

I was looking on cars.com where it says 5 speed standard auto optinal, but i guess i can't really argue with a dealer catalog. What website did you get the car specs from?

i looked at cars.com but they did not have the 0-60 quarter mile stuff.
i had the firebird specs in a catalog in my hand, for the year 1998.
i got the mx6 specs from some site that reviews cars, but i think you can get them from any site like mx6.com
the numbers vary from .1-.3 but they are very close,like ive seen 1/4 mile for mx6s from 15.3-15.9
---------
cars.com used to be a very good site, but now they dont have much about cars older than 2000.

:uhoh: you gotta remember too that the 350 has a better exhaust system overall; better exhaust manifolds (or headers on the ls1/lt1) than you have on your v-6. Even on the 350 i doubt you would gain 15 rwhp; I would be impresed with a 10 horse gain. Besides sounding nice, you most likely won't be able to tell a difference anyways, but maybe a 5-10 horse gain to the rear wheels (id guess closer to *possibly* 15 at the crank)


<cough> 346 <cough>

--Jason

well, this is not a fair game then, you are comparing imports in only U.S. with american cars in homeland.
and you said give me a mazda in 80s that makes same hp with the trans ams
84-91 mazda rx7 150-160 hp
87-92 mazda rx7 turbo II 200 hp.
80s mazda mx6 turbos 145 hp ( more than firebird )
and keep in mind that most of these cars manuals, and they can rape the automatic heavy american cars of the same year.
you say gay guys drive golfs , man look at the people who drive camaros and firebirds,lol
-----cndc i have a serious question for u----
if the f bodies are so great, why dont they sell any?
i dont know where u r from, but in maryland (not southern lol) no one buys them, at pontiac dealer in baltimore, md firebird in year 2000 averaged about a sale of 1 car a month.
i guess there is something that makes people twice before investing 30k on a firebird ( a nice model not a 22k trashbird) .

i just wanted to say that because you were talking about how they dont sell american cars all over the world so i narrowed the field down to cars they do sell around here
ok so 91 rx7 has 160hp
didn't the 85 iroc have 190 someone varify this for me i could be off by 20 or so hp
then lets see the tq numbers
1/4 times for these cars i bet its pretty close


i dont know what the big deal is with you hating on auto cars. all the most consistant and fast drag cars are auto

ya you ever watch when you are driving down the highway all the people that drive volkswagons they are either hot chicks or gay guys..... thats why vw invented prosche

well gm doesn't sell fbodies anymore because the mustang out sold them, they weren't making as much money as they wanted and they needed something for the tuner market so they dropped the fbody and went for the ?cobolt? and the gto, and yes 30k for a fully loaded ta is a great deal numerous times many magazines have said so themselves calling the fbody the best bang for the buck as far as sports cars go

i lived in MD for a few years and you are right no one owns fbdies, they all drive civics with bug wings on them and "dubs"
no one down thier has a mind of thier own they all think you have to be just like everyone else and own a civic

we all need to understand that whatever u grew up with is whatever u'll luv . we cannot change each other. so lets not try to anger each other because our beliefs.... just kidding keep arguing this is intereasting

hey cndctr,
i know, people who drive new golfs are kind of gay, and people who drive old ones are hippies.
--I dont hate automatic transmission, it has its advantages, but I dont think they belong in sports cars nor in muscle cars. I would want an auto in a cadillac/malibu/montana/envoy/suburban....
but i sure would not want it in a firebird, like i said its not all about whether auto is just as fast in the long run, i would like a manual because then i have total control.
I do like the firebirds and american cars, but little things they do not do and the little things import car makers do makes a big deal to me. Like, If I was making decisions at GM, ( assuming still making fbodies)
* I would never build firebirds with v6s in them, so that any firebird you see out there would be a REAL car, and the name "FIREBIRD" would have a reputation for it. I would make a slight different body for the v6 birds and call it something else,
* I would build a whole new tail light for the firebirds, that style is way old from 1986, I would get a whole new design. (that honeycomb style is just not bad ass looking anymore)
* I would build Grand Am GTs with Ram Air packages in manual transmission, Ive driven the car, i think the car is very nice, style is cool, interior is nice, engine is good, but people are not into auto cars. If that car was in manual, I think it will steal away many RSX/CIVIC Si/MAZDA 3/CELICA owners. (ive driven all except m3)
----
* I would have never built the GTO, because its just a bubble car, it does not live up to its name.
I think it should have been a limited version of the G/prix
* I would put navigation in G/Prix GTPs, make them available in manual, ( so that it can ACTUALLY compete with ACURA CL type S 6 speed.)
*I would get that v6 out of the bonneville, and put a 5.7 in it, build the car like an IMPALA SS, have navigation in it and actually make the cars interior look different from a grand prix .
* I would not build GRand Am SE with 4 cyc/ and 4 doors, i would lower the prices down on 4 door grand prix Se and let it take the G/Am Se's place.
I think a car should only serve one purpose, I would not have 20 models of G/Am and expect each to belong different classes of cars. So if you would want a fam. car buy a g/prix se or a cheap sunfire 4 door.
* I never would have built the VIBE, its gay looking, same car as MATRIX, but people buy matrix just because its toyota.
*I would burn all the AZTEKs in a deserted area where no one can see one anymore. ( at least take the damn plastic bumpers out, they look so cheap)
-----------------------------------
what do you think?
i think one reason mustang sells a lot more than camaros is because
1) they are mostly in manual
2) interior is a lot better looking
3) they sound a lot better with headers/ exhaust on them.

what do you think?
i think one reason mustang sells a lot more than camaros is because
1) they are mostly in manual
2) interior is a lot better looking
3) they sound a lot better with headers/ exhaust on them.

I think that's 3


... (wierd)

--Jason

yea ok, i guess i should have read it over.

what does wierd mean?

well at least we are agreeing on a few things now like the gay vw drivers( and hippie ones)
the fact that gm does whatever it can to be cheap

but you kind of ticked me off when you came into this thread saying american cars are a waist of money
for 8k including the cost of the car i have a vehicle that will run 12's do 170 (about) handle better than most other cars and has a system

and if you are gonna bash fbodies because they dont make them anymore why not go after the supra and skyline they stopped making them too

and nin defense of all the v6 owners out thier, they can make them very fast and for insurance reasons and initial cost i dont see why its a bad purchase

and nin defense of all the v6 owners out thier, they can make them very fast and for insurance reasons and initial cost i dont see why its a bad purchase

We have someone over on LS1.com that runs 12's in his V6

--Jason

(ct)but you kind of ticked me off when you came into this thread saying american cars are a waist of money
------------------------------------------------
some of them are, try selling a 1993 mazda rx7 and try selling a 1993 firebird , some american cars lose their value like crazy.
-------------------------------------------------
(ct)and if you are gonna bash fbodies because they dont make them anymore why not go after the supra and skyline they stopped making them too
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i dont really care if GM makes them or not, i dont know about skyline but supra is coming back.
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(ct)and nin defense of all the v6 owners out thier, they can make them very fast and for insurance reasons and initial cost i dont see why its a bad purchase
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if you think about it, you can even make a cavalier fast, so that does not impress me.

dude, american cars are the only real cars