Transmission fluid

I have heard differing opinions on when to change the transmission fluid. Some say 20,000 KM(I doubt this one), 30,000 miles, 60,000 miles or 60,000kms.

The way I read my maintenance schedule it is listed as 60,000 miles. (odd since one would expect it to be a metric value for a vehicle in Canada)

It does not state whether this implies a complete change or a 6 litre (pan drop) change. I would imagine that if they do not specify then it is the former.

I am interested in what others believe the schedule is.

Thanks

Dealerships also vary in what they consider a "transmission service". Some just do an ATF exchange, some just drop the pan, replace the filter & replace whatever ATF was lost in the process. Some do both! In my opinion, a yearly pump out/vac out of the pan thru the dipstick tube is all you need on the AX4S/AX4N. Maybe do a pan drop/filter change once in the trannies life.
G/luck
Joel

Reading the Owner's guide/Service literature supplied with out '98 says 60,000 miles with NO FILTER change needed.

I would not trust a WWD (wrong wheel drive) A/T more than 30,000 between changes, and less if it idles a lot.

2000 Scheduled Maintenance Guide has it at 30k but again isn't specific on full flush or pan replacement. Since I installed my drain plug on the pan I just drain it every other oil change when I'm under there already, very easy and no mess.

That's a VERY good plan there Lewis.

You may want to invest in a LiquidVac fluid suction pump. I suck out about 6 quarts of fluid out of the tranny in my '99 Taurus and '01 Windstar every year whether it needs it or not. Easy to do and it only takes about 30 minutes (being slow and putzy).

I've already got a fluid vac for changing fluids in my Mercruiser I/O and it works well for that, but for $3.99 and a little hassle to install a drain plug kit I think I'll stick with that route since I'm already there for the oil change. Really no effort and by the time I'm done with the oil filter the ATF is done draining about 5qts.

for $3.99 and a little hassle to install a drain plug kit

What kind of "kit" is this that you speak of? Sounds like a good thing to do. Hate that ATF going everywhere but in the drain pan when removing the pan off the trans-axle. Where do you get it? I have welded a pipe bushing and plug into older models but lotsa messing around. A ready made kit might be the answer. Thanks. :smile:

Look at the bottom of this page for an example, I didn't buy this one, got one at Advanced Auto Parts but any auto parts place should have one. Just remove the pan and drill a 1/2" hole, then bolt it on. Just be careful where you place it that you have plenty of internal clearance.

http://www.racenet.net/drivetrn/bm-trans-pans.php

This is my first response/question. I hope I'm doing this right.
Is it true that the tranmission pan gasket on a 2001 Windstar is reusable? A local parts shop told me there is no replacement gasket for that model.

Is it true that the tranmission pan gasket on a 2001 Windstar is reusable? A local parts shop told me there is no replacement gasket for that model.

I haven't had mine off yet so can't speak from experience. It may be that they use a silicone sealant/gasket cement as the gasket now. Seems they are doing that in a lot applications. I'll watch to see if I'm corrected. :rolleyes:

Yes, the pan gaskets ARE RE-USEABLE if they have not been replaced by those garbage cork gaskets already by some butcher.

Is it true that the tranmission pan gasket on a 2001 Windstar is reusable?

The words are actually stamped right on the pan, equipped with a reusable pan gasket. Can't miss it.

Thanks for the advice. This goes against my better judgement, but I actually called, Jiffy Lube. The head mechanic there told me that they don't have to remove the pan anymore to change the trans fluid. They suction out all the fluid instead of draining it from the pan. The process is akin to a blood transfusion. He claimed this was better because 1) it replaced all the fluid by flushing out all the lines, rather than just the liquid that spills out from the bottom and 2) no worries about a leaking pan. He also said the filter never needs to be changed because everytime the car is turned off the filter is cleaned by the back flush of fluid. Is he correct or full of crap?

Well he's mostly right.

He is wrong about the "flush" removing nearly 100% of the old fluid, you CANNOT do that because as you pump new in, it mixes with the old in the Torque Converter which acts like a big blender intermixing old and new. I did the math one day, and you would need to flush over 25 qts of NEW ATF thru the system to get to 95%, and almost 40 qts to get over 98%.

One VERY important thing, is that you should NEVER use a "self powered" flushing machine. The machine should only add back what the TRANSMISSION pumps out, it should NOT have any pump itself.

Jiffy Lube changed their official name for the service to Fluid Exchange, not a flush. The so called "flush" machines they use like most places just uses the vehicles ATF pump to exchange the fluid. These are cooler line flush machines and have 1 chamber for the old fluid and one for the new, as the old fluid fills up the 1 chamber a diaphragm forces the new fluid back in, the machine does not have a pump or a flush mechanism and just adds back the same amount of new fluid to match what is pumped out.

The problem as ModMech mentions is that not all of the fluid from the pump goes to the cooler line so you are not replacing all the old fluid with new but rather diluting it down with new fluid. This is a faster dilution than you can do by draining the pan but still its the same thing, just all at once. You can accomplish the same task by draining the pan or suctioning fluid out of the ATF fill periodically at much less cost.

For example, my 2000 has a capacity of 12.25 qts. After adding a drain plug to my pan I can easily drain 5qts at a time. Doing 4 quick drain and fills takes 20qts of ATF and gets my fluid to about 88% new fluid mixture, probably close to an ATF flush. Total cost for 20qts of Mercon V is probably around $50 and I think the ATF flushes run much more than that. Plus I continually drain and add new fluid keeping my new fluid mixture pretty constant.

I think any way you keep your ATF fluid in good condition is fine, either via flushes or drain and fills. My only concern is the bad history I've had with Jiffy Lube on even the most basic tasks (tightening a drain plug, reattaching bolts to skid plates, under-fill/over-fill), If you search the internet you'll find quite a few complaints of transmission failures after the Jiffy Lube ATF service. A couple mentioned hooking the machine up in reverse which would build up pressure in the system, can't remember the details on other complaints.

Actually, all the pump's flow DOES go thru the cooler lines, well 95% or more.

The flow order is: Sump -> Filter -> Pump -> Valve body (~5%, then to sump), Torque Converter (~95%) -> AT Cooler -> Gearset for lubrication -> Sump.

And, if you DEMAND "Mercon V" as you should if your van is a '98 or newer, the cost will go up from the advertised price by $10-$30.

Thanks for the clarification, I think I remember the local Ford dealership quoting around $150 for the flush and Jiffy Lube was around $120, then tack some on for Mercon V.

Thanks ModMech.

You too Lewis, Thanks.

I am about to do a trans flush on on 98 windstar/3.8L. Chiltons Repair Manual states
- Disconnect the lower transaxle cooler line from the transaxle cooler line fitting at the transaxle
- Attach a 3ft. hose to the end of the transaxle cooler line and gently fasten the hose with a clamp.

What is the I.D size of the cooler line??
How do I identify the cooler line??

Chiltons also states to:
-Insert a plug into the transaxle cooler line fitting at the transaxle to prevent any residual fluid leakage

What size and type of plug do I use??

I have a '96. I think your's will be the same....except fluid type.
The cooler lines are 5/16 inch I.D.
The total capacity is 12.25 quarts (US).
You will need to make sure that the fluid you use is Mercon V rated.

Now....using my '96 as a point of reference....
The transmission cooler is a part of the radiator....on the passenger side.
The fluid flows from the tranny into the TOP of the cooler....and out the BOTTOM of the cooler. If you follow the line that comes out of the BOTTOM of the radiator.....over to where it switches over to the rubber hose....you will be able to follow it to the transmission. I did NOT disconnect at the tranny.....I loosened the hose clamp on one end of the rubber hose.....and dropped it down.
I found that to be easier.

The method that is mentioned....is something along the lines of.....pumping the pan dry.....add more fluid....pump it dry....and refill....
Just be careful to avoid running the tranny dry for any lenght of time and you will be fine.
Also....measure the amount that you pump out....and replace with the same amount.
Check the level and adjust as needed.

My windstar has a small square-ish block that is mounted in between the metal lines....just in front of the transmission. This is a thermal switch. If the fluid is below about 32 degrees F. the fluid flows through this block...and back into the tranny....bypassing the cooler in the radiator.
For a fluid temp. above 32 degrees F. ... The fluid flows through the lines...through the cooler...and back into the tranny.

The FORD manual does not call out replacing the transmission filter on a regular basis. I prefer to replace it.....and wipe down the magnet (a big washer looking item in the pan) and the pan....so...if I am going to take the pan off.....I am gonna replace the filter. I found (and have read on this forum) that the gasket on the neck of the filter can remain up in the transmission hole.....that can be removed with a pair of needle nose pliers.

The gasket IS re-usable. It is metal with a rubber coating on each side.

I also strongly recommend an auxilary cooler for the transmission.

So you disconnected the rubber hose that comes from the bottom of the radiator and used the hose to drain the tranny fluid.

I was going to attach another hose to this to extend it out close to the driver side door so I can view the flow of fluid from inside to enable me to turn off the ignition immediately when the flow stops.

Is this hose also 5/16-inches I.D?

Also, what did you use to plug the other end that you disconnected the hose from?

The Chilton manual states the capacity to be 10 quarts (9.5 liters)

I think that the capacity of 12.25 quarts is fairly consistant across the years.
I do not know what the OD of the hose is.
I did not worry about plugging the other end.....
One end of the hose had a "permanent" clamp (you have to cut it off) and the other end had a screw clamp.....I undid the screw clamp.
The fluid does not come out very fast.
I think is is something like a quart in 30 to 45 seconds. If it is slower....you have a problem.
1. problem would be a restricted cooler.
2. would be a weak pump.
You most likely do not have these problems....but I just mention them in case you do.
Actually.....this is the official way to determine correct flow volume.....as per. the alldatadiy directions.
I ran about 15 quarts through.
There will be a certain amount of mixing of old and new fluid in the torque converter. Which is why I ran more through.

When the flow got real slow....and bubbles....I had plenty of time to shut off the ignition.
I used a clear hose (I do not remember the size) that I slid over....so I could see the fluid flowing inside. It was just some clear tubing that I had left over from my garden pond project of a couple of years ago....just happened to do the job.
But...again....the fluid does not come gushing out....more of a nice steady flow....so you have time.

wiswind,
the gasket in the transmission hole is in firm, when I try and grasp it the pliers damage the rubber gasket. The new filter has a rubber gasket on the neck - looks like the one that is stuck in the hole.

Should I remove the gasket in the hole or remove the one on the new filter?
Is there a trick to removing the gasket in the transmission hole?

wiswind,
never mind I got the gasket out

Sorry that I did not get back on faster....
For others reading this.....this is a common issue.
This is the small FILTER gasket.
You will totally destroy the old gasket when you remove it with needle nose pliers....
I bent a part of the gasket in....from the side of the metal.....and was then able to get a good grip with the pliers to pull it out.

The seal is the small one that is on the neck of the filter....that you press up into a small hole on the transmission.....the one that the fluid is sucked up through.

Not to be confused with the re-usable PAN gasket.