Ram Air

I have a BigBlock hood from RK Sport and i am wanting to make it functional. The hood has all the duct work in it already. What would it take and how much moola would it take to make this happen.

what are you putting this on?

its going on a 94 z28 camaro

i had the same idea for my third gen. probly gonna take cutting out the scoop hole, that isnt really there for some reason. and putting the TPI airbox under it, and adding foam insulation to the edges untill you create a seal all the way around. now the trick is to find out how to make it, so you can drive it in the rain without hydro locking your engine :)

how is it all set up in the ss's? I need to look at an ss and see, cuase they have the ram air......

YearOne sells ram air boxes for aftermarket hoods. Here are some underhood pictures of my 96 SS.
http://www.chevelle.vcn.com/hood1.JPG
http://www.chevelle.vcn.com/hood2.JPG

I have nver heard that Ram Air actually works... it is a form of Cold air so you see gains fron that, but as to actual "Ram Air", I believe the engine sucks air at a speed so much greater than the speed of the air, that there is no "Ram Air" effect.

I have nver heard that Ram Air actually works... it is a form of Cold air so you see gains fron that, but as to actual "Ram Air", I believe the engine sucks air at a speed so much greater than the speed of the air, that there is no "Ram Air" effect.


But the way they have it set up the air is forced into the intake. So you can say it is ramed in.

But not realy, because the intake sucks in air at a speed much greater... if I am inhaling at 200+mph you can't really "Ram" air down my throat my blowing 60mph, see my point, so I think wasting the extra money to make it function isn't worth it, just for looks. The SS's quoted 15hp extra is even attributed by Chevy to be from an exhaust upgrade.

I would have to dis-agree. The SS air induction is way better than a stock. It is functional in the way that it pulls in way more air than a stock air intake. The stock intake on any 93 - 97 Zs8 only has a hole about 6 inches in diameter from where it pulls the air from inside the front bumper. The 96 and 97 SS area is twice as much as stock 12" x 6". I would have to agree that only so much air is allowed in, but twice as much as stock. Also the air it pulls in has to be way cooler than the air stuck in the front bumper area that is getting heated up by the engine compartment. According to my SLP brochure from 96 on the Z28 SS it says a stock SS without exhaust is 305 hp. The performance exhaust if ordered adds 5 hp. So lets do some math. 285 hp is the HP of a stock Z28 in 96. So lets add 5 hp to that. 290 Hp... So the rest (20 hp) has to made up in the air intake, because the SS car was not reprogrammed or had the throttle body changed. It still had the stock Z28 48mm one. Then look at the 96 Firehawk. It was rated at 315 hp that's because the air cleaner design is so much better than the SS. It had 2 times the area of the SS and better flow.

Everyone knows that GM numbers are S*it, you should know that. I said it does function as a Cold-air set-up, drawing in cold outside air, good for a few ponies... as to the "Ram Air" effect, it doesn't exist, as per my two previous posts.

Joseph, you can't actualy tell me that a bigger opening will not force more air into your engine at 60 mph than a smaller one. Physics shows that when you have a large opening with air being forced into it, which would be a larger volume, then it speeds up when it is pushed into a smaller area. Thus the car is pushing more air into the engine at a higher speed.

Simple fact is, "MORE AIR INTO THE ENGINE = MORE HORSEPOWER".

god not this again...lol

what do you mean?

sift back through the older threads and find the one on the ram air working or not working. we had a nice eight page discussion on the matter filled with theories and physics equations, and i still dont think we resolved the issue. kindof funny when you think about it...lol

ram air is effective, it is proven, the ss is faster than a stock z28 mostly because of the ram air.

Why is everybody in here a Physicist?

READ THIS
http://www.vetteguru.com/ramair/

BTW... I am studying physics and numerous credentials and if you guys knew me in person you'd realize I rarely open my mouth unless I can back it up so not to sound liek an ass but most of the time I know what I am talking/typing about.

Why would they use the ram air set-up if it didn't work? SLP and GM wouldn't have spent all that money on devopment if they thought it wasn't going to work. Physics have nothing to do with this discussion... Look at the HP numbers. Have you ever seen the demo models for the K& N filters. More air coming in means better flow hence more performance. Look at the early GM cowl induction set-ups. A lot of companies are going will forced air setups, do you think they are doing it for their health?

SLP SS gets more HP from exhaust... "Ram Air" does supply colder air, this I have said, it is probably good for about 4 ponies. GM numbers are all wrong anyway, all LS1's dyno about the same, Vette, SS, Z28. SLP SS is more an appearance package than anything else, and it makes the car rarer and hold it's value better. Dyno wise the z28 and SS are about the same.
Before everyone jumps down my throat why can't someone actually take the time to do some research first? You will see that I am right? try the link I JUST POSTED.

hmmm... should i EVEN get involved in THIS debate on ram air????????? lmao

ok here is the deal, Ram Air is a NAME!!!!!!! for the love of god, GM is not claiming to use the same intake system as the turbojet engines on the SR-71 blackbird during super sonic flight. its a CATCHY name, its marketing, but is nothing more than a cold air intake, no different than any other hood scoop intake used sense the dawn of the automobile. An engine will take whatever air it needs, unless that air is under boost. an engine will take in a given volume of air, that never changes, how many moles of "air" that is in that volume is baised on the PSI of the "air" that is taken in, and fuel is metered respective to that "air" density. the air in the hood scoop is not under enough pressure to make much difference in any other respect than getting cold air. the vehicle would have to be traveling much faster than anyone here ever will in a car before the effect of ram air would take over, not to mention the design of the hood isnt functional for that application, more likely would cause the hood to rip off. SO in conclution, Joseph, calm down, again your arguing text book definitions vs the real world, if ou got a problem with it send a letter to GM. Everyone else, sorry to say it but hes right, the Ram Air system does not actually RAM air into the engine, it just gets cold air from outside. man i hope this dosnt go the same way as the last debate on this subject did...

It's nice to have you on my side:)

scary isnt it ;)

If you think about it this whole debate was started by Joseph1082. If he hadn't stuck his nose into this thread and getting all complicated with physics and rotation of Jupiter aligning with the gravitational pull of Mars... The thread was started by someone that just wanted to know if there was a set-up available for the hood he bought. Then he wanted some pictures of a SS hood to see how it worked. This thread is heading like any other thread in here. If someone asks a simple question it ends up in a debate or if someone wants help they get stupid remarks about how they should get rid of the car or something sarcastic.

You both are wrong, The force of the car pushing the air, will make it go into the duct, thus since the pipe is smaller than the actual duct the air will speed up, and it will then creat low pressure which will suck more air in

ok, i thought this was a place to voice my opinion, so don't get all mad... second, prove I am wrong.

Dude learn physics
My physics teacher was sitting right there 7th hour when i was typing that, and i double checked with him to make sure it was correct

if you are talking about a pipe with a larger opening at one side, and a smaller opening at the other side. then yes, as a constant flow enters one side than it will accelerate as it exits the smaller opeining. this is all true. however, you cannot argue this fact basied soley on physics, it shows how little you know about the engineering aspect of the engine. you have to remember that the engine is NOT a constant flow. the valves open and close on intervals, so at points the airflow in the scoop is ZERO because it hits the valves or butterflys, and airflow stops and actually creates a pressure wave going AWAY from the engine inside the intake tract, this is called a harmonic wave, when proporly tuned it can actually cause volumetric efficency in excess of 100%, not unlike boost, but this is not a tuned intake system. The flow through the intake is NOT constant, and therefore does not follow the model that your physics teacher has approved as you posted. yours is a far over simplified version of what is going on in a scoop. think about it, if you blocked the air scoop, at the engine while the car was going at speed, would the scoop pressurize and explode???? no, because there is not enough athomosphereic pressur in the system as the scoop fills with air, it reaches a point of pressure that exceeds that of the outside air, and it will not allow more air into the scoop, it almost acts as if it were a solid entity, airflow is now diverted around the scoop, untill a valve opens, and air is allowed to flow into the engine, at which point pressure drops in the scoop, air is allowed in again, and the valve closes. im an aeronautical engineering major, who took my college physics classes in high school, so yes, ive learned my physics. and have the practical knowledge of engine dynamics in order to visualise a correct system, rather than the over simplified pipe version you came up with. sorry man, but your wrong, not us. its nothing but advertizing, besides, to get technical, the true ram air as used on the SR-71 is used to SLOW down incoming air so it can be burned. because at supersonic speeds, the airflow will outflow the turbofan engine and it will go out. so for an automotive Ram air system to create faster moving air, would by definition be wrong.

That was very well said. The best way to describe it was the way Joseph did with the whole 200mph vs 60 mph thing. Its been said before but all the scoop does is provide colder air for the car to take in which is good cause colder air is better but it is not enough to make a difference.

Check this out, here are some results from a test showing a ram air system works....

http://www.installuniversity.com/install_university/installu_articles/ftra/ftra_12.262000.htm

Check this out, here are some results from a test showing a ram air system works....

http://www.installuniversity.com/install_university/installu_articles/ftra/ftra_12.262000.htm


wow, a site saying their product works...amazing, read what iroc said cause he isnt bullshittin ya

Capitalism, isn't a great thing, it allows people to LIE THEIR ASSES OFF.
Thank you Z28 Boy... I thought that was a simple yet very logical way to put it.
I didn't mean to start another debate... I was trying to say, BUY the hood, it is hot, but don't flush away the other 2-3 hundred to make it functional.

You must relize, a motor does not "suck" air/fuel mixture. Lets skip the fuel because of the different type induction systems. Pistons, on the down stroke with the intake valve open create a void or absence of air, which causes the atmosphric pressure outside the motor to fill the void. The less restrction, the quicker the void is filled, the higher the rpm, more H.P. When the barametric pressure is aided by the use of "Ram Air", turbo or a super charger the equation is as follows... Barametric pressure flow through the intake at any given RPM
+ aided force = amount of pressure in the cylendar. The higher the pressure the more power, provided the correct amount of fuel is added for the added amount of air. So the less restriction and the more booste = MO POWER. And the size of the hole does not put a cap on the amount of air that can be pushed through. Example - A water faucet... more pressure, more water.

So the less restriction and the more booste = MO POWER. And the size of the hole does not put a cap on the amount of air that can be pushed through. Example - A water faucet... more pressure, more water.

ummm boost is restriction, boost is the measurement of air you do not use. Also just because you have more pressure, does not mean that you have more volume. All it means is that you have more of a restriction.


I have posted this before but, I thought it was appropriate for this discussion.

Hmmm I was in a coma like state earlier today ( sitting through a four hour training lecture at work). Anyway I was wondering how fast the air in a 3" inlet pipe to the turbo would be traveling if 800 cfm of air was going into the turbo. So when I came up with my answer it woke me up enough to ask my buddies at work to calculate it for them selves and see what they came up with. I didnt tell them how I went about calculating it to avoid getting them started on the wrong foot incase I was wrong. They came up with the same results as I did. When I asked them how they went about calculating it they had approached it the same way I did.
here is how I did it:
1) I'am going to use standard temp and press for the air

2) area of 3" pipe = pi * radius squared
3.14 * 1.5in * 1.5in = 7.07 in2

3) Inside volume of pipe = area * length
I wanted to know how long a piece of 3" pipe had to be to half an internal volume of 1 cubic foot. I rearanged the equation:
length = volume / area
length = 1 ft3/ 7.07 in2 = 1 ft3 * 144in2 / 7.07in2 = 20.4 ft

4) OK now I know that 1 ft3 is the volume of a 20.4 ft long piece of 3" pipe. I also know that Iam looking for 800 ft3/min. so this is next:
Speed of the air in the pipe (mph) = (800 * 20.4 * 60) / 5280
800 is cfm (ft3/min)
20.4 (ft of pipe for one cfm)
60 (convert from minutes to hours)
5280 (convert from feet to miles)

ANSWER: 185.45 mph!!! Air speed in a 3" pipe with 800 cfm of air moving through it. Makes me shake my head but it appears to be right. I also calculated for a 4" pipe and the speed dropped to 104 mph.

There is no intended point of this. I was just kind of suprized by my answer and thought I would pass it along. BUT....it does make me wonder how much ram effect some of these late model cars get at 60 mph or even 80 mph with the little factory snorkels. Maybe they're just fancy looking cold air induction set ups? it does not ram air.

This is why I don't think ram air works. it might be a cold air intake but it is not ramming the air in the engine.

NASA called, they want there formula back

well i checked out the website, and yes, VE went up, but notice it is at 85% (give or take) if a ram air system were successfull at "ramming" air into the engine the VE would be above 100% the only thing that box does, is reduce the ammount of resistance to air entering the engine, a K&N air filter does the same thing. would you say a K&N air filter rams air into the engine?? also, yes the way the engine works is creating a void and allowing athmosphereic pressure to push air into the engine, but basicly if you really want to get into it, theres not such thing as sucking, its all the same thing, creating a void, ouside pressure pushes stuff into that void to fill it, we all still say suck. but ANYway. is it worth while to make the hood functional YES!!! because it is a cold air intake, and colder air makes more power, will it also have the added effect of "ramming air into the engine" NO because it is not possible to go fast enough to "scoop" air up into that hood scoop at more than 1 atm. once it reaches that point, no more air can force its way into the scoop, it will divert around it. geeze...... my head hurts. this isnt that complicated of a thing.

geeze...... my head hurts. this isnt that complicated of a thing.



yea but it sure is fun :icon16:

lol, untill you just get annoyed at people buying into a name without understanding the true concepts, MAN I HATE YOU ALL FOR MAKING ME "ONE OF THOSE GUYS" arrrggggggg!!!!!! damn it im gonna go make some hot dogs and enjoy the rest of my day :)

When you "suck" air in with your lungs, you are creating a vacuum therefore outside air rushes in to fill a space with less pressure. Just want to back you up. So technically there nothing actually sucking, only regions w/ higher pressure blowing (same way there is no movement of cold, just heat). But this effect is what we call sucking. Hypsi kinda just wrote equations for what I just stated, it sucks too fast for Ram air, but not for a FI set-up, which is a hell of alot faster than 60mph. A guess this argument goes to bed.

I was never saying that you would be pushing A LOT more air into your engine, but you do have the air going into your engine at a higher speed than before.

Like I said, not really, because the speed at which the air goes in your engine, even at standstill is GREATER than 60mph, to have a true Ramming of air, you'd need speeds I say of well over 200mph. a TURBO or BLOWER moves the air so fast it pressurises it, but I'm sure if you measured the speed at which a FI is blowing air it would be substantially greater than 60mph, 80mph, whatever you like.

Hey its his cash let him do what he wants. Making it functional will provide colder air which is good but its not ram air.

even if its pulling in air faster than what is outside you're assuming that thats all it can pull in. just like he said there, its a foregone conclusion that enlarging the opening allows more air to be taken in. i think this brings up a good question: how much air can be taken in? there has to be some physical part (im sure there are several but the last one) that takes in the air before combustion, there must be a physical limit, but its probably very high which might be why you can actually hurt your performance by putting too big a carb onto an engine.

I don't think it can ever pull in "too much" air. I think an n/a engine will pull in enough air so that the pressure in the enigne is 1 atmosphere, equal with the outside, at that point no more air would enter. "Sucking" is air moving from a higher pressure region to a lower one til equalization.

I was standing by the road and a Dodge Ram drove by and I felt a bit of wind as it passed, would that be considered "Ram Air"???? :-D

geeze... i give up..... if i havent explained it yet, im not going to be able to.

I'm not arguing the fact that these so called ram air hood and grill configurations will only provide minimal performance gains, if any. But some time when your cruising along at 60 exhale then stick your head out the window with your mouth wide open and notice how much easier it is to fill your lungs.

right but ur mouth doesn't have a tube where the air has to travel thru, make a 180 degree turn, and then an airfilter to go through does it? come on listen to this guy he knows his shit.

right but ur mouth doesn't have a tube where the air has to travel thru, make a 180 degree turn, and then an airfilter to go through does it? come on listen to this guy he knows his shit.
Are you tring to tell me if you added a supercharcer to a stock intake manifold and ports you woulden't get more air into the cylendars. Dude use your mind!

I've been flow benching a dynoin 2 stroke race cylendars and 4 stroke Bike heads for 20 yrs and chevy V8s are ancient news in comparison.

So what u are sayin is that a "ram air" is the equivalent of a supercharger. Mmmmmmm let me think about that one. u know what? no. Superchargers force the air into the intake the "ram air" only provides colder air. The car still takes in the same amount of air its only that now its colder and thats where u see the gains if any.

The only way the "Ram Air" could provide more air, is if it pressurized the incoming air, which is waht a FI does. Ok, I don't think that air traveling at 60mph hitting the back of my throat, or the back of an intake box, will pressurize at all, the speeds are just to low.

what if I fart into the intake?

You're arse would be sucked clean..........LOL

Are you tring to tell me if you added a supercharcer to a stock intake manifold and ports you woulden't get more air into the cylendars. Dude use your mind!

A supercharger compared to ram air ?!? Alright, now I got to get in on this. A supercharger is basically an air compressor. It creates an air pressure greater than what our normal atmospheric pressure is, which is why its forced induction. Ram air catches air than is moving faster than the air inside the engine compartment but the pressure is still the same (101,300 Pa in case you were wondering). I think the major problem with the whole debate is that people think that air velocity and air pressure is the same thing, it's not.

I think the supposed "Ram Air" effect is that this "High Velocity" air hits the back of the intake box and gets slighty squshed so to speak, thus putting more air in the same volume, thus pressurizing... but I know it wont work at 60mph.

The only way the "Ram Air" could provide more air, is if it pressurized the incoming air, which is waht a FI does. Ok, I don't think that air traveling at 60mph hitting the back of my throat, or the back of an intake box, will pressurize at all, the speeds are just to low.
I agree,Finished

hmmm, never tried breathing in through my mouth with my head out the window, but has anyone tried breathing in through your nose at 60mph???? i cant do it. its like the low pressure from higher flowing air sucks my nose closed. and i cant inhale unless i try really hard. maybe im just weird.

Ok, Air that moves Faster has lower pressure, right? This what creates life for a wing, the shape of it, the top side distance is longer than the bottom, so the air has to flow over the top faster to meet up the air on the bottom. So if air was rushing around your nose at like 60mph, it'd be hard because the tendency is for the air to EXIT your nose.

I don't i want to know that u r anywhere around 89's nose. What yall do on yalls own time is yalls business. Freakin sicko's.