Gs Gs-t's?

I dont know alot about eclipse's.So i wanted to know if the gs-t/gs-x has an external wastegate?And does the gs have the 4G63 engine in it, or is that only the turbo ones?What hp does the gs run?And what hp for the rs'? What i want to do is turbo a gs, i want to make my own turbo kit with an external wastegate.But if the gst has an external gate i wont have to buy a gs and make my own kit.If you can help that would be cool.Thanks!

The gst/gsx models (after 95) are the only engines with the 4g63. They already have 210+ hp and if you want more are easily upgradable. The gs model has the chrysler 420a in it. it's a 121 cu in 4 cyl. Still a good engine, but only putting out about 160 hp I believe. You can turbo the gs, custom if you have the knowledge, or you can buy prefab kits. Hahn racecraft, and star performance make the best. You can't take the parts from a gs-t and just strap them to the 420, they sit differently in the engine bay and the manifold won't fit. The rs has the same exact engine as the gs. It just doesn't have 4 wheel disc and I think the suspension is a little less beefy. If you know someone who is good you can have them make you a custom manifold for the gs, or you can buy one and strap on a turbo. Just be warned, the internals on the 420a will not support more then 8-10 psi of boost without upgraded internals.

Also, if you plan on turboing a gs, remember that you will have to increas your fuel flow by getting a larger in tank pump. All the aftermarket kits already come with everything you need for a direct bolt on. Including all electronics. You'll prob want to upgrade your ignition and plugs too. You'd probably be best just getting the gst and buying an upgrade turbo

All stock turbo cars as far as I know come with internal wastegates. Externals are not only very loud, but also illegal. Not that either of those reason stop us from enventually upgrading to one ;)

Ok...i'm looking for about 400 hp (or more cuz we are tuners).How hard is it and what do i have to do to make a gst an exteranl wastegate...or would it not be worth it to change it?It sounds like i'm going to get a gst then.To get 400 hp will i have to get my engine internals built up?I have the feb 04 issue of Sport Compart Car...and this guy has a 95 gsx.He had a turbonetics T66 turbo, custom manifold and all...but i dont see the external gate...do the T66's have an internal one?Oh yea...i want to run about 14.7 (1 bar) of boost to get 400 hp...that means i need 200 with out the turbo...what can i do to do that?

before I give my imput
why do you persist on external wastegate and want to run 14psi only?

before I give my imput
why do you persist on external wastegate and want to run 14psi only?

Cuz i want to run it at 14.7 psi all the time...i dont want to run 20 psi or more all the time like some ppl do.The more hp i get with out the turbo the more power i can get from the turbo with lower psi and even higher if i want to turn it up.External wastegate ...i dont know...i have seen some turbo thats have an internal gate and the gate doesn't open.I have talked to some ppl that have said that external is better, it my be more money for one but they work alot better.I like the may they work to.But i dont know if it really matters.

you really got to study up on this stuff... you are thinking in honda terms, where 1 bar is a ton of boost, and you need 370 injectors to upgrade to a turbo... this is stock boost for the dsm. some guy's are running like 25psi on some turbo's that are on daily drivers... you want to adjust it get an electronic boost controller. and 400 hp on a fwd is alot of power to 2 wheels, unless you want to get into LSD's and such. think of getting a GSX if you want tons of power. also there are kits that come with an external exaust mani... check hahn race craft (http://www.hahnracecraft.com/hahn/upgrades/twogen.htm) for some enlightening info

I was curious of this my self. I recently bought a 1999 although i thought it was a 98 GSX.

Great car, but im never happy with the stock for long.
I was looking for a turbo kit that offered an external wastegate. Who offeres such kits? Links plz.

Thanks

this is the only "kit" that I know of right now
http://agpturbo.com/kit.htm

greatly appreciated:)

14 psi is stock for a 2g ;) You wont make more powr at the same boost with a larger turbo unless the curret turbo is out of its efficiency range, and even the stock turob isnt doing too bad at 14 psi ;) You need more flow to make more power. You need to roughly double your flow to hit 400 hp. It will be damn near impossible at less than 22-25 psi without going to a pjhysically larger motor (2.4, 2.3 stroker, etc) even with all of the airflow enhancing mods such as cams and intake manifold. A massive FMIC is in order as well and will improce flow at a given pressure.

Im thinking of a max boost level of 35psi. At that level i could push the 500 mark could i not? With an upgraded fuel system, intercoler, BOV, engine electronics, cams, and such.

you better be looking for 600 hp if youplan to run 35 psi. ;) Head gasket sealing will be an issue. Chad on the POSr site did 500 whp at 30-31 psi. Thats what you should be expecting.

O i do not plan to run that more than once or twice. Just for the hp numbers. But at 35-36psi i could push 600hp on a 20g?

A 20g wont hold 35 psi.

not even for a short period of time? Say 1 dyno run?

Nope. IT cant flow enough air to build up 35 psi. You might hit 30, but if your car is seutp right that will drop by redline.

But i could get the 450 or 400 out of the 20G with little lag, and not insane boost like the 35psi or basicly 2.5bar.

Right. 25 psi will do 400 plus on pump. 450 on race gas with more boost (~28-29 psi), and I can see 500 hp being doable but it will take time and work. Of course it requires the right setup, and good tuning.

So your saying that i could run 20 to 25 psi all the time and not hurt my engine?I want to get a GS-X now.Upgrade the turbo to a turbonetics t3/t4, turbonetics manifold, greddy blow off valve, greddy e-01 boost controller, apex'i n1 exhaust with high flow cat, holly 255lph fuel pump, apex'i s-afc, rc 660 injectors, greddy 24 type intercooler kit.Would that hold 25 psi and make 400 hp?Would i have to upgrade my internals to run it at that psi all the time and know that i'm not going to blow up my engine?

You wont need new internals, but you will need to know what you are doing. PErfect tuning and a properly setup car will be the only way to keep from blowing things up. Most people are too scared to run that high boost everyday on regular gas, and for good reason ;) That being said, it can be done safely. But scrap the idea of the greddy IC, and all name brand ICs for that matter, and pick up a DSM specific shop's kit like the one on my car from SBR/Kinetic (see my site), Indy Race cores, or Victory Performance. 1g also has Bushurs kit as an option. Intercooling is the absolute key to safe pump gas power... You'll need a way to tune, and a datalogger.

What do you mean by "perfect tuning"?What has to be done?I leave in ks...so we dont have a alot of shops that can help me out.Is it something i can do?I think the greddy E-01 has a datelogger.But what is it?I dont get what its for.What about a fcd?Will i need one?Thanks for helping me out dude...i'm new to eclipse's as you can tell.

Perfect tuning: every component of the fuel system is tuned to produce the proper amount of fuel to the motor, Peroper air ratio, wategate pressure, all piping.

Alot has to be done when you are getting that kind of power out of the car. MAny things have to be taken into consideration.

Stay away from the Greddy e-01 boost controler, you need the greddy e-manage to use the dadtlogger and its not a good data logger.

Im not certain if you should get a FCD cause that feature is designed to keep you from damaging your engine. But you can get a boost controller with a built in saftie feature that will adjust how the boost is administered to save your engine.

Check out my set up that i will be going with.89Turbo944's link (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=175014)

This is the set up i plan on running to produce 400-450whp for daily driving. This is the most reliable way to do it. I have gone the route of getting fortified internal parts to insure that the engine can handle what i throw at it.

So what should i use...i want to use the t3/t4 turbo...what what boost controller?The apex'i avc-r?And what about a data logger?I have seen the EMC tuning DSMlink what i dont know how to use it.If i got that would i still have to have the s-afc?

Well first off what kind of powere are you planning on making? What psi do you want to run?

Im going with the HKS EVC V boost controller because it offeres me many options that i can use. I would sugest that you stick to a more basic aad easier to use boost controller.

Do you want to use strictly a electronic boost controler? or would you be willing to use a manual one? If you want a good cheap electronic one i would go with the Blitz single SBC.

i would stay away from the DSMliink if you dont know how to use it or dont know a tuner that is familiar with it. You could try the less expensive Digital Tuning Inc. PocketLogger. It will give you all the info you need for a good price.

I'm looking for 400 hp.Psi...i dont know...whatever i have to do to get 400hp.May be 25 psi?I dont know.I want a electronic boost controller.Price is not something i'm looking at right now...i just want to get a system thats going to work.So if i get a pocket logger i wont need a s-afc?I want something that i can work with in side of the car.I really like the s-afc.But if i need a data logger then i dont know what i should do.Is there a site that talks about how the data logger works and what does?

well if cost is no thing then go with an HKS Pro EVC. Its 1200 or so. And it will hold 43psi.:)

With a logger it just gathers tones of information from the engine adn oterh related components and allows you to view them. Which will help you properly tune your car.
You will still need a fual air controller tho. But i would stay away from the biggie back systems. Go with a stand alone ECU upgrade. This will allow you to work with the unit at a computer an offer almost unlimited adjustment to your fuel curve.

The APEXi unit is not the best because it only allows you limited tunability, and you have to work on it in your car.

Manufacturer: Digital Tuning Inc
Product: PocketLOGGER
MSRP: $155.00
(MSRP is typically higher than most shop prices)
Description:
Palm Computing Platform based automotive datalogger specifically designed for 90-94 Mitsubishis. Performance enthusiasts will find PocketLOGGER to be an indispensable tool for tuning and PocketLOGGER's error code reading and clearing capabilities can save you the time and cost of a trip to the mechanic when your Check Engine light comes on.Works for all 1G DSMs.Palm device sold separately.

http://pocketlogger.com/index.php?pid=pldsm is a good link to info on the logger.

Even with unlimited funds, you aren't assured that a more expensive tuning tool will benefit your level of expertise. There are TONS of very fast dsm's that use s-afc and a pocket logger. It might not be the best, but it can do quite a bit.

To me, this is along the same lines as getting a new turbo. You CAN get a T72, but you better find someone who knows what they are doing, because a standalone and huge turbo aren't going to tune themselves.

I STRONGLY recommend upgrading slowly to get the hang of what you are doing. I mean no offense, but not many people know what 400whp is exactly. It's not just a dyno, or a turbo, or a timeslip... it's a level of experience. If you spend 15,000 dollars at once on everything you heard would get you 400whp, in my opinion you have gone about it totally backwards.

I see with the setup that you are going to use you have the Electromotive TEC-3 EMS...so do you take out the old ecu and put that in or what.What do you use to tune it?A laptop?I'll just say this.If you was me...getting a t3/t4 turbo, turbonetics manifold, fp fmic,greddy blow off valve, apex'i n1 exhaust, holly 255 lph fuel pump and rc 660 injectors...and after all that you had 2000 dollers left...what boost controller would you get and what fuel/air controller would you get?Wanting 400 hp.

Totaly right, but alot of the time the more expensive tolls last longer. Not in all cases but in my experance.

But i dont mind piggie back systems just hat the fact that you have to do all the tuning of a APEXi S AFC in the car.

So what are you saying i should do Joe?Not upgrade to the t3/t4 so fast?What turbo should i get then?I want to use the same set up as i said in the last reply but add a s-afc and pocket logger.What would you do?

That's true, with having to be in the car.. but personally I wouldn't mind since you have to test it every few settings anyway.

My choice, with that money left over, still..
S-AFC II
Profec-b

you can do 400whp with less than that too, but i'd take em. Actually i'll be going with the EPROM and dsmlink.

If i were you i would go with the sam set up but maby a big 16g or 18g or maby even a 20g. Im sure you could get what you are looking for out of those with little problems.

Ok what about this set up.Injen intake pipe with K&N filter, Greddy type s blow off valve, Greddy profec b boost controller, Apex'i N1 exhaust, Hahn super 20G-H turbo, Hahn Eliminator Jr. downpipe, Hahn Elmininator O2 housing, Max-flow cat, High-flow manifold, Holly 255lph fuel pump, Digital tuning pocket logger, Apex'i S-afc, RC 660cc injectors, Forced Performance intercooler kit.Hows that?Even tho i dont like internal wastegate...i think the 20G is a good turbo.And if i still want more i could always get i bigger turbo right?Tell me how that sounds to you guys.

Until someone tells me everyone wants their list approved, I don't like the lists.

Do a little at a time... unless you are sponsored and/or sending your car to spend 6 months in the shop, you arent going to buy everything at once. Pick a turbo and find your supporting mods for the power you want eventually. The only reason i even say that is because you only want to buy a part once.

There are 14b turbos in the 11's. Save yourself the time getting excited about everything you'll order and figure out what exactly you are doing first.

Yea dude...i get what your saying.Take my time and look at what i want...then look at what more i need.See if it going to work then buy it i'm guess?Thanks for you help!

It will work if done properly. But you will ned more to make it reliable, and more knowledge of what exactly you are doing. Keep asking the questions and ganing the knowledge.

:)

Poeple that dont yet have a grasp on these things themselves yet shouldnt be offering advice to others. ;) That being said...

- I cant figure out why everyone lately thinks you have to run a 20g with an internal wastegate. There is nothing stopping you form going external.

- Standalones rarely are the right choice on a DSM. The stock ECU has run 7s with a TMO chip and VPC/GCC. Not bad for "piggybacks." For 2gs, or even 1gs (ECU conversion), DSMlink s in my opinion the single best thing going right now. And its much much safer than a standalone. I will never run a standalone, FWIW.

- Joe made a very good point. Throwing your whole pile of mods at the car at once will lead to problems. Do one thing at a time, work out the bugs and move on. Dont blow your whole load at once.

- Starting with a moderate sized turbo is a great way to learn how to tune. I think the 14b is the best starter turbo. Cheap, and makes plenty of power but will force to learn how to tune to get at that power. With a large turbo one small mistake in your settings and things can get ugly real fast. ;)

Is there anything bad with starting a smaller turbo...then later on getting a bigger one?I mean i know i'll have to get somenew stuff but is it a bad thing to do useing the same car?Is the 14g internal wastegate or external?

Poeple that dont yet have a grasp on these things themselves yet shouldnt be offering advice to others. ;) That being said...

- I cant figure out why everyone lately thinks you have to run a 20g with an internal wastegate. There is nothing stopping you form going external.

- Standalones rarely are the right choice on a DSM. The stock ECU has run 7s with a TMO chip and VPC/GCC. Not bad for "piggybacks." For 2gs, or even 1gs (ECU conversion), DSMlink s in my opinion the single best thing going right now. And its much much safer than a standalone. I will never run a standalone, FWIW.

- Joe made a very good point. Throwing your whole pile of mods at the car at once will lead to problems. Do one thing at a time, work out the bugs and move on. Dont blow your whole load at once.

- Starting with a moderate sized turbo is a great way to learn how to tune. I think the 14b is the best starter turbo. Cheap, and makes plenty of power but will force to learn how to tune to get at that power. With a large turbo one small mistake in your settings and things can get ugly real fast. ;)

i couldn't agree more...

BTW it's a 14B [not G] turbo, it was stock on 1g's, and you can get them for next to nothing. and you don't realize the potential of the 4g63 engine. mistakes like that make me wonder if you are paying attention at all...

i tried to convey this message in the first page of this thread and on another one. again i would strongly recomend you [jdmcivic28] and 89turbo944 to study up on DSM tuning. thuroughly study these:

RRE's upgrade path (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/2gupgradepath.htm)
DSM tuners upgrade path (http://dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/2gturbo/)
VFAQ and 100 Already Answered Questions aka DSM Newbie FAQ (http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html)

these sites are only a start, look in cardomain.com [link in my sig] to see what others have done to their cars as well. also, tuning mags like Modified Magazine have a specific "DSM Tuning" section, and Sport Compact just released that 2 turbo eclipses made the top 10. have there is so much info on these sites [and in mags too] it will take you days to go thru it all. you will learn a thousand times as much and find out way more about your car in there than in here, and if you are really into it [like i am] you will get great enjoyment out of it as well.

if you have questions for specifics, ask. posting a list and asking for approval is simple to do, but will get you nowhere as far as how it all works together, and while there are many options for a particular part, as in Kevin's case, the option may be to just keep it stock. i think the consensus is that experience within the DSM world is paramount. really look at what Kevin is running to make 11's. some guy's have mod lists a mile long and can't break into the 11's. if you are building a show car, by all means, cram as many parts in there as possible and good luck. but if you are going after raw power do the research. sure i have a dream list too, but it is no where near what i originaly thought i wanted [although i do seem to be gravitating toward GReddy parts and i do want AEM EMS [v.2 is comming!!]... i don't want to seem like i'm talking shit, but there has been an influx of seemingly not paying attention questions and reply posts that needed to be addressed... just my opinion and i'm only trying to help ;)

Thank you dude...what i wanted is sites.I like them more...they tell me the truth and what i want to know...thanks again.

I agree. Forums are a great resource, but the bulk of the info can be gained from sites dedicated to info. Take www.stealth316.com for example. There is more info on turbos, and all the laws of phsyics and thermodynamics that apply, readng turob maps, etc, it will make your head spin. Look for these sites. I have a "info" folder in my favorites list, perhaps I can start a thread and post it. It will at least be sites that i trust, if nothing else. Be careful what you believe, and try to verify things yourself when possible. IF someone says the RFL is a great BOV, go outside and find a way to pressure test it to see for yourself. Many times I have found things that completely go against DSM convention (take my egt post on tuners for example) and get me a lot of trouble, but its how we get down to the truth. I've been at this for 4 years, and cars in general my whole life, and I still have barely scratched the surface. :) Do some bulk learning at some good trustworthy technical sites, and feel free to ask specific questions here. Learning is 90% of the fun if you ask me. I enjoy the challenge more than working on or racing the car...