The Bible.

One thing that bothers me is that people take the Bible as 100% accurate unquestionable truth. I know of no book that is written with some sort of bias from the author (if there were no bias it wouldn't exist) The Bible wasn't written by God who it describes, and while God may be 100% truthfull and unquestionable, people aren't always truthful and are always questionable.
It becomes more of a problem when not only do you have the biases of the original authors, but those of the translators that have reworked this book into languages we can understand.
It (the Bible) is meant as an outline, not a rulebook in my opinion.
Can you imagine what would happen if other books had gained such a following of "believers," how screwed up our world would be today?
I may believe in a higher intelligence, God if you will - but I do not take the Bible as 100% unquestionable truth, as it would be silly and foolish to do so.
Perhaps it is basically correct, with perhaps only embellishment to help drive home the points being made, maybe the personal biases and opinions of the authors snuck into it's meaning - or worst of all perhaps it's a total work of fiction.
Personally, evolution etc. doesn't do it for me, so I'd like to believe that at least the majority of this book is based on true events - but I'd hardly believe that all events have been faithfully written down, and that no personal opinions have crept into it, and it bothers me that other people seem to think that it is the "end all, be all" about our origins, our meaning of life, and our destiny.
I'm not so close minded and arrogant as to have not taken at least a peek into other religions(even if I've never done any in depth study), but I know of many who are. I was born into a christian family, it is the religion I know the most about, it is the religion I have the most questions about - I'm not one to say something is right just because I was brought up with it though. I'll stop ranting now... thoughts anybody?

I honestly believe that the Bible was written by powerful men to force people to realize THEIR ideals of right and wrong. We'll keep it at that.

I honestly believe that the Bible was written by powerful men to force people to realize THEIR ideals of right and wrong. We'll keep it at that.
I agree with that. As there is the old testiment and the new testiment.

You are all sheep :biggrin:

If you follow the Anglican faith,or any of its offshoots,it would pay to always remember that this particular version of Christianity was founded by Henry VIII when the Catholic church wouldn't grant him a divorce.This great man went through 6 wives,executing two of them and divorcing a further two before sdying of syphillis.Such were the morals of church folk at the time,when literacy was limited,and the interpretation of the Bible was restricted to the few who had the priviledge of education.

Ignorant or apathetic? Don't know or don't care. I can't choose. I can see no relevance of some twisted 'deeper meaning' book 2000 years after it was written.

I honestly believe that the Bible was written by powerful men to force people to realize THEIR ideals of right and wrong. We'll keep it at that.
That's a pretty good observation that I'd be inclined to agree with also. The bible today, as in many many years past, can be interpreted in many ways depending on the mind of the individual reading it. Unfortunately, many who believe, twist and distort the words contained within this book to suit their own agendas. At the end of the day, religion and faith is ( in my opinion ) a crutch for many people who live outside of the real world and need a book such as the bible, and figures such as god and jesus, in order to live their lives. The majority of these people are complete hypocrites, living their lives a certain way one day, and then the next, changing some way they live their lives and saying ... well, the bible says it's OK. The bible is a brilliantly written book, but then so are many others .. take the "The Lord Of The Rings" books for example. It's just a book, but sadly, a lot of people need this book in their lives. They need it simply because they are brainwashed into belieiving that by following the ideals of the contents of the book, they'll live better and more fulfilling lives than other ( non believers ). They believe that by living their lives in a certain way, according to the "teachings" of this book, that they'll go to a place called heaven when they die. And if they happen to deviate from what the book "teaches", well that's OK as long as they're sorry, and this is where their hypocritical attitude enters into the whole equation. If only they could wake up and smell the coffee, they'd realise that heaven and hell do both exist ... but that they exist here and now, in the real world we live in, and are the result of what we make of our lives now. When you're dead, you're dead .. there's no great theme park in the sky called heaven, waiting for any of us.

That's a pretty good observation that I'd be inclined to agree with also. The bible today, as in many many years past, can be interpreted in many ways depending on the mind of the individual reading it. Unfortunately, many who believe, twist and distort the words contained within this book to suit their own agendas. At the end of the day, religion and faith is ( in my opinion ) a crutch for many people who live outside of the real world and need a book such as the bible, and figures such as god and jesus, in order to live their lives. The majority of these people are complete hypocrites, living their lives a certain way one day, and then the next, changing some way they live their lives and saying ... well, the bible says it's OK. The bible is a brilliantly written book, but then so are many others .. take the "The Lord Of The Rings" books for example. It's just a book, but sadly, a lot of people need this book in their lives. They need it simply because they are brainwashed into belieiving that by following the ideals of the contents of the book, they'll live better and more fulfilling lives than other ( non believers ). They believe that by living their lives in a certain way, according to the "teachings" of this book, that they'll go to a place called heaven when they die. And if they happen to deviate from what the book "teaches", well that's OK as long as they're sorry, and this is where their hypocritical attitude enters into the whole equation. If only they could wake up and smell the coffee, they'd realise that heaven and hell do both exist ... but that they exist here and now, in the real world we live in, and are the result of what we make of our lives now. When you're dead, you're dead .. there's no great theme park in the sky called heaven, waiting for any of us.
I'll agree there are a lot of christians who are hypocrites. I know b/c I've had to deal with them in high school. My friends and I drank and whatnot, and they talked shit about how bad we were. Then to find out later, they did drugs and drank as well. It still ticks me off. I'm gathering you may have run into one too many extremely religious people who tried to push their beliefs on you and were hypocrites as well. I don't know though, thats just what i pick up for some of your comments. But you really have to quit saying that people who believe in God are mental, b/c we're not. Were as normal as the next guy, we just have certain beliefs. But are values are probably quite similar.

It also gets me when I hear christians complaining about the book of morman, when what do you know? the New Testament was just tacked onto the old testament - and somehow it's better in this respect?

Well, I am one who does believe that the Bible is accurate.
After reading through some of the comments above I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about Christianity.

It's true that the Bible was written by man but it war inspired by God. I don't think God would let someone embellish his inspired word to make a better story. As far as interpretations of the Bible being wrong then I guess that's possible but after the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls and other ancient documents over the years the Bible has been proven as a very accurate historical reference book even by non religious historians. There were many witnesses alive during the time Christ was alive. All of them tell the same story about what Christ did and what he taught even though their books were written years apart and in many cases miles and miles apart. In those days you couldn't just go to a printshop to make copies and hand them out to your friends so I don't think they just copied each others stories.

As far as some Christians being hyprocrites goes this is my opinion on that.The New Testament it is not a rule book like the Old Testament was. There are some Christians that unfortunatly take advantage of that and think that as long as they ask for forgiveness they'll be OK. (Saved by grace). I do wonder if their salvation is genuine. That's not up to me to be the judge about their salvation so I will just have to leave that to God.

As far as Christians living outside the real world goes then I would have to say that the "real world" is something different to everyone. It depends on everyones different experiences and how they view things.Christians simply look at different experiences from a different perspective than does someone who is not a Christian.

Lastly.(finally huh?) I hear a lot that Christians try and push their beliefs on non Christians. True we do tend to do that. We are suppose to. It's called the "Great Commission" . One thing I do find odd though is that it seems like athiest are trying to push their beliefs a lot harder that we are. Why is that?

Yes, but even some vidence that tends to support happenings in the Bible tends to discredit it somewhat. Take for instance the great flood and Noahs ark. They're pretty sure they've found the ark, and they know there was a great flood - but it did not cover the whole earth, as the book claims. Perhaps a little embellished to drive home the point? Also, exagerations are sometimes plain obvious - don't try to remove the splinter from your nieghbors eye when you have a plank in your own? If it had been written "splinter" in your own eye, the point it's trying to make wouldn't be as powerful - secondly if you did somehow manage to get a plank in your eye - you'd probably be dead.
If you see the point I'm trying to make, it's still generally the same idea, take a great flood in the black sea, and then write that it flooded the whole world, makes a more interesting story. Take a splinter and make it a plank. Gets the point across better!

Just a though. I wonder if some of the stories in the bible were the authors attempt to describe things outside their experience. Perhaps they missed out on what God was actually trying to explain and the geological phenominon of their time. If a 18th century Tutsi were to try and describe the Golden gate bridge, how would he do it? Probably with metaphors of his life experiences. Maybe the writings in the bible follow suit.

I'd believe it. Things that are wonderful and exciting are typically exagerated. For instance when the Japanese first saw Perry's fleet, a few schollars described the ships as being over 400ft long, when in reality all were less than 300ft long. Unintentional embellishment.

Yes, but even some vidence that tends to support happenings in the Bible tends to discredit it somewhat. Take for instance the great flood and Noahs ark. They're pretty sure they've found the ark, and they know there was a great flood - but it did not cover the whole earth, as the book claims. Perhaps a little embellished to drive home the point? Also, exagerations are sometimes plain obvious - don't try to remove the splinter from your nieghbors eye when you have a plank in your own? If it had been written "splinter" in your own eye, the point it's trying to make wouldn't be as powerful - secondly if you did somehow manage to get a plank in your eye - you'd probably be dead.
If you see the point I'm trying to make, it's still generally the same idea, take a great flood in the black sea, and then write that it flooded the whole world, makes a more interesting story. Take a splinter and make it a plank. Gets the point across better!

The flood may not have covered the whole world as we know it today but it may have covered their whole world. At that time the world as they knew it was much smaller and a lot less populated. It wouldn't take a lot to flood their whole world and do the job it was intended to do. As far as the splinter and the plank thing goes I don't think they meant for anyone to really believe that someone actually had a plank in their eye. It was just to point out how we can see others shortfalls and we ignore our own even though they may be worse.

2strokebloke, i don't believe that the authors of the bible exagerrated one bit. there is no evidence at all saying that they did, it would be ignorant to say that, "this point could have been made easier if he said this,.....he must be exagerrating" it makes no sense, to say the author was exaggerating when there is no evidence of that what so ever. i mean i could go get a history book and turn to a random battle and say that the author was exaggerating, and make as much sense as you are now.

Thank you for that thoughtful insight. But could you pick up any history book, and say without a doubt that the author was unbiased, and presenting nothing but the facts? Remember, that the Bible is a history book afterall.

the bible is a history book and is ment to be a guide for people, and to show them how to live their lives. and to say that the authors are biased, of couse they are i mean, do u think darwin was biased when he wrote his book a bout evolution, of course he was. the bible contains many books that are simple history and tell of past events, and others are pure bias on how cristians should live their live's but is basically god speaking through the people who write it, so if it is god's bias, its good enough for me.

This is perfectly true, but it still annoys me that people would turn it into a rulebook of how they should live their lives, rather than an outline suggesting the proper way - which is really what it is.

There was something on the History Channel on scriptures that were left out of the bible b/c they were deemed too 'powerful'(i can't really think of the word i want to use)that they were left out. I taped it, and if no one saw it then I'll try and sum up what they discussed when I watch it in the next day or two.

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but it still annoys me that people would turn it into a rulebook of how they should live their lives, rather than an outline suggesting the proper way - which is really what it is.
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i dont see the difference, if someone told me this is the proper way to make a cake, i would interpret it as the way all cakes should be made.

i think that "suggesting" is the key word in that post. i don't think the bible isn't "suggesting" the way to live your life, but it is telling the way a christian should live their life if they want to be closer to God.

There's more than one type of cake. Ever hear the phrase: "there's more than one way to skin a cat?"
In the end, the cat is still skinned, but there are different ways of getting there.
As Texas pointed out, books where left out of the Bible, the apocrypha... history simply left out because it apparently did not fufil or fit the biases of those who wanted people to read the book.

I believe in evolution over creationism. It seems to me that the Bible was just written and filled with stories that try to explain how the Earth and all it's inhabitants came to be. For example, long ago, people once thought the sun was a glowing, hot rock. They didn't know about nuclear fusion, so how could they have known what it really was? The same goes for evolution. How could one explain evolutionism, when the technology and theroies did not exist to help understand it?

However, I'm not saying that religion is just a bunch of useless crackpot stories that someone made up. Many religions have great ideals and thoughts about how you can live your life, and be better person.

There are some parts that I disagree with. For example, in the Christian Bible, (I can't remember what part, maybe someone else knows) where it basicly says that man is above all the other lifeforms on earth. This is the kind of disrespect for the enviroment that is causing all of enviromental problems.

We are the only animal in some 3 billion years of earth life that has so drasticly changed the enviroment to the point where life can no longer be sustained.

Anyways, thats just my thoughts.

first of all, the bible clearly states that the only way to salvation is through accepting christ. to believe some parts and not other parts, and call your self a christain is hipocritical. and the fact that some books were left out of the bible, this doesn't mean it was on purpose. it would be jumping to conclusions to say that they were.

and its not like a commitee got together and said, "ok, we're going to leave out these books because we don't like them"

god has the ultimate power over everything, and i'm sure he didn't "censor" it. i didn't see the thing on the history channel so i don't know how viable it is, but a word of warning "don't believe everything you see on tv."

i guess we will all know what the real way to salvation was when we die, whether it is like a tree(all branches lead to the same trunk), if it is like the bible says(only through jesus), or if it is all just some elaborate hoax(thought up by the first people as a way to give meaning to their lives)

either way i am glad christianity is around, because without it i would be lost.

first of all, the bible clearly states that the only way to salvation is through accepting christ. to believe some parts and not other parts, and call your self a christain is hipocritical. .

I agree with you on the salvation part but other parts of the Bible may not be as clear as that. A lot of the Bible is open to some interpretation. I'm not saying that parts of the Bible is not to be believed rather that parts are interpreted differently depending who reads it.

and the fact that some books were left out of the bible, this doesn't mean it was on purpose. it would be jumping to conclusions to say that they were.

and its not like a commitee got together and said, "ok, we're going to leave out these books because we don't like them"

god has the ultimate power over everything, and i'm sure he didn't "censor" it. i didn't see the thing on the history channel so i don't know how viable it is, but a word of warning "don't believe everything you see on tv."

I didn't see the thing on the history channel either so I can't comment on that but there was a type of commitee that got together when the Bible was first put together the way we know it today. If I remember right some books did get left out because they were either inconsequential or there was some doubt as to whether they were God inspired or not. I don't remember anything about them being too powerful.


i guess we will all know what the real way to salvation was when we die, whether it is like a tree(all branches lead to the same trunk), if it is like the bible says(only through jesus), or if it is all just some elaborate hoax(thought up by the first people as a way to give meaning to their lives)

either way i am glad christianity is around, because without it i would be lost.

True enough...we will all find out eventually. The hoax thing I can't buy because there is too much evidence that the Bible is a very accurate history book to be a big lie. (Plus I know what I know.):)

Actually by hoax, I think he means that Jesus is not actually the son of God, but somebody who's pulled off the most elaborate hoax in history.

And nobody said you have to read the Bible, and claim to be Christian! Lots of religions use the Bible.

first of all, the bible clearly states that the only way to salvation is through accepting christ. to believe some parts and not other parts, and call your self a christain is hipocritical. and the fact that some books were left out of the bible, this doesn't mean it was on purpose. it would be jumping to conclusions to say that they were.
I have to disagree with that. Your looking too far into the definition of the word 'accept'. You can believe and accept the lord. I do. But in no way does the word accept mean you have to follow and believe in 'all' of what is written in the bible to a T. Everyone strays off path of what is said and if you haven't(unless your Mother Theresa)then your lying.

The house of god is all around us. I don't believe in any of that but for those who do, you don't need religion.

if one is a christian, he should believe all of the parts of the bible and look at them as god inspired truth, although some parts are not as clear as other parts, he must do his best to understand them, and try to live a godly life.

i never said that a christain commits no sin, all i said was that if you accept christ you should believe all parts of the bible that doesn't mean it is immpossible to make a wrong if you are a christian, it just means that christians should try their hardest to live a godly life and attempt to adhear to all the commands.

to go into life with the mentallity, "i will end up sinning any way, i might as well not even try", is wrong, if you make even the slightest attempt ,to live like jesus did, it is much more admirable to god.

as for, MBTN, don't tell other people how to live their lives, if you don't believe in god, good for you, but you can ignore it, if you're fine with going to hell good for you.

Ok I'm going to see how long I can talk about this and not offend anyone (well one sentence isnt bad so here we go). I have to disagree with a large part of the bible. such as how Christians are suppose to kill off other religious peoples and destroy thier places of worship and any statues etc. they may have of thier idol or God. (think I'm liying? look for yourself. deuteronomy 12:2-3 (KJV))

the bible also states, as Sean said, we are supposed to view our selfs as above animals. I once had a christian friend of mine tell me that a bunny that she accedentily killed had no soul. Well I'm sorry to let you know but no one has a soul. For 2600 years Buddhists around the world have spent untold hours meditating in an attempt to find a "self" a "me" a "soul" the Buddha himself spent a few days meditating on this subject, only to find there is not seperate self (this was one of his greatest enlightened thoughts). So in other words you are a living breathing being just like every other living breathing being. You are no more special and no worse. you have no greater purpose on this earth than the bunny my friend killed or your neighbour. You have only created these ideas that you are better than them because you belive there is a soul or a self or have a subconscious idea that your worth more because "I'm me so I'm special", and that is not the way things are sorry to disappoint anyone.

As far as the ideas of heaven and hell they are right here and right now as I am writting this I am either in hell or in heaven or neither depending on my moods and each second I can be in another. They are concepts, states of mind, a complex combination of feelings, thoughts, and ideas not a "place" that you go. there is no life other than what is in the present moment and if you live focused on a future event such as going to heaven or hell you are doing the worst dead of all, missing out on the present.

a very wise man once said that if you live for the future you are not living at all (the same goes for the past), and when the future does come you'll still be focused on the future instead of the present so you are never really alive.

for anyone that cares theres a really great website www.religioustolerance.org they have descriptions of tons of different religions and subjects related to them. as for this topic they have a discription of such things as violence in the bible, the original meanings of the 10 commanments, and how they have been changed or twisted around by many people many ways.

I seriously hope that no one is really offended by what I'm saying I'm only going on what I belive (as a buddhist) and what I have come to know as the truth by actual observations. I hope everyone finds joy in thier life even if it don't please anyone else if it pleases you and those you feel you need to please(such as a God). then may you do your best and may all beings profit from it. -Justin

Ok I'm going to see how long I can talk about this and not offend anyone (well one sentence isnt bad so here we go). I have to disagree with a large part of the bible. such as how Christians are suppose to kill off other religious peoples and destroy thier places of worship and any statues etc. they may have of thier idol or God. (think I'm liying? look for yourself. deuteronomy 12:2-3 (KJV))

I don't think you are lying but you are mistaken. Deuteronomy 12:2-3 simply refers to destroying idols, statues and gods of the people of the land worshipped. Kind of like like a statue of buddha.

the bible also states, as Sean said, we are supposed to view our selfs as above animals. I once had a christian friend of mine tell me that a bunny that she accedentily killed had no soul. Well I'm sorry to let you know but no one has a soul. For 2600 years Buddhists around the world have spent untold hours meditating in an attempt to find a "self" a "me" a "soul" the Buddha himself spent a few days meditating on this subject, only to find there is not seperate self (this was one of his greatest enlightened thoughts). So in other words you are a living breathing being just like every other living breathing being. You are no more special and no worse. you have no greater purpose on this earth than the bunny my friend killed or your neighbour. You have only created these ideas that you are better than them because you belive there is a soul or a self or have a subconscious idea that your worth more because "I'm me so I'm special", and that is not the way things are sorry to disappoint anyone.

Possibly the reason these buddhist around the world spent so much time meditating and found nothing could be because they were misdirected. They don't believe in a God so they don't meditate with that in mind. In other words they don't believe so they aren't looking in the right place. I know people (myself included) who have prayed for 5 minutes and found God. We weren't looking inside ourselves to find truth but we were looking to something greater than us to find it.

As far as the ideas of heaven and hell they are right here and right now as I am writting this I am either in hell or in heaven or neither depending on my moods and each second I can be in another. They are concepts, states of mind, a complex combination of feelings, thoughts, and ideas not a "place" that you go. there is no life other than what is in the present moment and if you live focused on a future event such as going to heaven or hell you are doing the worst dead of all, missing out on the present.

a very wise man once said that if you live for the future you are not living at all (the same goes for the past), and when the future does come you'll still be focused on the future instead of the present so you are never really alive.

I think you misunderstand Christians. We don't simply live for the future. We look forward to it but we tend to live in the now and keep an eye on the future. We celebrate life everyday and thank God for it always but we keep an eye on the prize or the goal.

I'm not sure but isn't meditating for 2600 years missing out on the present in a big way?

for anyone that cares theres a really great website www.religioustolerance.org (http://www.religioustolerance.org) they have descriptions of tons of different religions and subjects related to them. as for this topic they have a discription of such things as violence in the bible, the original meanings of the 10 commanments, and how they have been changed or twisted around by many people many ways.

I'll check that site out more later as I find time. It does appear to have some good stuff on it but it does also seem to be watered down too much. They have no single set of beliefs which tends to make the authors a bit wishy washy. I could be wrong on that but I don't think I am. I will get into it more as I find time. Thanks for the link.

I seriously hope that no one is really offended by what I'm saying I'm only going on what I belive (as a buddhist) and what I have come to know as the truth by actual observations. I hope everyone finds joy in thier life even if it don't please anyone else if it pleases you and those you feel you need to please(such as a God). then may you do your best and may all beings profit from it. -Justin

As you stated I hope you weren't offended by my comments either.

I'm glad you were kind enough to point out things and not get all nasty. thanks. :) but I have to clear up a few points. As far as meditation goes it is a way to center yourself in the present NOT to escape it, it is often mistaken as a way to escape reality or to "space out" which it is most certainly not. It is a way to calm your mind and body at the same time so that you can study something uninteruptedly (is that even a word?) such as an emotion (anger, happiness, etc.) in order to understand where it comes from. Oh and there are other religions that use meditation in order to get in contact with thier God (that is thier final goal, "samadhi", where they are actually in total contact with God) there are also sects of Buddhism that belive in a God, and some do not. note that I said that they didn't find a seperate self NOT that they didn't find God. ;)

On another note when I was speaking of living in the present I only stated that because I have another Christian friend who endures all sorts of mental abuse (and posibly physical, I have no proof so I say posibly) from her family and says that it's all OK because someday she'll be in heaven and won't have to deal with it anymore, I think that a terrible additude to have because she's in hell right now and does nothing to get out of it. I realize that not all Christians are that way and I apologize if it came out that way. It's wonderful to have goals it's just bad when there's a goal or future event that your so focused on that it doesn't let you live in the present and enjoy the life you have right now.

And the only reason I pointed out those parts in the Bible is that I belive all people should be able to practice thier respective religions and not have to live in fear that some radical group that takes one section of thier "holy book" to literally and does something violent to another group, I know I don't have to explain religious terrorist groups to anyone. I'm not so blind to think that everyone will always get along but if you disagree with someone be it religious or otherwise it's best just to avoid confrontation. Killing people is wrong, unless they are an imediate threat to you or others. well thats enough of my babbling peace to all and may all your respective beliefs bring you and all much joy. peace -Justin

I checked out your site and it is wrong, it has soo many errors about chirsitanity its not even funny. You know first thing its going to be against god when the name of the site is religioustolerance, which is a bunch of crap becuase thats what the devil wants us to believe.

Not necessarily crapmaster. Religious tolerance doesn't mean anti god.
For instance.... I can be tolerant of a Muslim and respect his beleifs even though I don't agree with him.

"Love your neighbor".
"Love your enemy."
Tolerance.

I still am trying to get time to go to that site.

But thats not religious tolerance, thats accepting a person thats created by God. God never said to accecpt a different religon or belief, but what he said was to love your enemy.

Do you mean accept as in accepting their beleifs as your own? If so then that's not what I'm saying. The dictionary defines tolerance like this:
The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.

That's what I mean by tolerance.

I mean accepting a person because he was created by God, but not accepting their believes as my own. Kind of like the saying, love the sinner, hate the sin.

But thats not religious tolerance, thats accepting a person thats created by God. God never said to accecpt a different religon or belief, but what he said was to love your enemy.


God never said anything,God doesn't exist.The BIBLE is a confused collection of ramblings and beat-up stories.The closest publication to the Bible in contemporary times would have to be the Weekly World News.

Where is your proof that God never existed? I always here people say there is no God but I know in my heart that you and them are wrong because I have all the proof I need and its called the bible.

Where is your proof that God never existed? I always here people say there is no God but I know in my heart that you and them are wrong because I have all the proof I need and its called the bible.

Game set and match to me,I think.

The Bible is a book.Nothing more, nothing less.It proves nothing.Tolkein wrote The Rings trilogy,but there's no way that I'm ever going to believe that Hobbits exist.Why should your book be any different?

There is a large misconseption about the lord of rings books. Tolkein was a christian writer but the boook is just a book. Subliminially there are christian morals all over but people take it to seriously when they say you have to pray to gandolf. The lord of the rings is just a book, but the bible is gods word and you cant deny that.

There is a large misconseption about the lord of rings books. Tolkein was a christian writer but the boook is just a book. Subliminially there are christian morals all over but people take it to seriously when they say you have to pray to gandolf.

Are you for real?


I put in the reference to Hobbits to show how utterly stupid it is to believe something just because it is written down.

The lord of the rings is just a book, but the bible is gods word and you cant deny that.

Yes I can.The Bible is a book,written by humans with fertile imaginations,and presented as fact by people with their own agendas.

When people saythings like

"god says"
"It's written in the bible that"
"the devil wants you to"

THEY ARE TALKING UTTER SHITE.

What they really mean is

"i want you to believe that...."

There is no proof that god exists.Please don't tell me that there is no proof that he doesn't,that's a pretty lame excuse.If you want to waste away your life grovelling to a false idol,go ahead,but please,just spare us the advertising.There is no God.And I intend to waste no more time on the wishful thinkers who refuse to believe that life is what you make it and that death is the absolute end.

Ill sum up what you just said there, your heart is heardend to the truth of Jesus Christ.

The Bible is a very accurate history book. Even historians who are not religious have proven that it is very accurate.

Taranaki. You seem to be more adamant about proving there is no God and running down religion than most Christians are about proving there is a God and lifting up Christianity. Just curious why that is ?

We can all sit here and argue until we're blue in the face, and none of us will budge from our own beliefs. So I say: why bother?

The Bible is a very accurate history book. Even historians who are not religious have proven that it is very accurate.

Taranaki. You seem to be more adamant about proving there is no God and running down religion than most Christians are about proving there is a God and lifting up Christianity. Just curious why that is ?

Largely because people who can see the blatantly obvious inconsistencies in the Bible,yet cling to it as some kind of truth annoy the hell out of me.

The ark,given the dimensions quoted,would never have accomodated half of its cargo,but that's ok.There's not enough water on the planet to flood its entire surface anyway.

Adam and Eve appearing from nowhere? come on,that's Las Vegas magic show stuff -Siegfried and Roy![come to that ,Noah would have got his arse bitten if he'd tried to keep tigers in such a small enclosure]..

Water into wine/feeding the 5000 with a hatful of piscatorial and bakery product/walking on water/assorted other miracles?All hearsay and legend.No evidence.

I could go through the various books of the Bible systematically and point out the obvious fictions,but that still wouldn't change the views of fundamentalist Christians.They are convinced that their beliefs are the stone cold truth and that anyone who begs to differ is either an idiot or a servant of Satan[another daffy made-up character,but never mind]

Contrary to the beliefs of the bible-thumping minority of Christians in this forum,I have actually taken the trouble to study the bible,and christianity as a whole,and a few other religious belief structures into the bargain.I didn't find one that made complete sense to me,but the theories of evolution and evidence make more sense than all of the miracles and deities put together.So before you criticise me for not taking religion to heart,ask yourself if you have ever honestly given serious though to the possibility that you could be wrong?

give me a break, you think that evolution makes alot of sense, when you look at the odds of the probability that evolution happened it would take the biggest leap of faith to believe that. and all the things that you mentioned as inconsistensies in the bible they are called miracles, i mean when you're god you can do pretty much anything you want, like creating people, and making food appear out of nowhere.

there is something called the second law of thermodynamics, notice it is a law not a theory, it states that the amount of disorder in a given system can only increase, and that order cannot come of it unless energy is put into it, this means it is immpossible for a single amino acid to become more complex and evolve into something more complex.

..unless energy was put into it.. such as.. from a lightning strike.. or geothermal activity..

Largely because people who can see the blatantly obvious inconsistencies in the Bible,yet cling to it as some kind of truth annoy the hell out of me.
I guess you would have to point out those inconsistencies to me.
I don't mean the examples of things you don't believe that you have given below. I mean true inconsistencies. There is a difference.The ark,given the dimensions quoted,would never have accomodated half of its cargo,but that's ok.There's not enough water on the planet to flood its entire surface anyway.
Really? What would it's entire cargo consist of? 2 of every animal on earth? Perhaps just 2 of every animal in Noahs known world. There doesn't need to be enough water on the planet flood the entire surface of the earth. Only enough to flood all the known civilization at that time.Adam and Eve appearing from nowhere? come on,that's Las Vegas magic show stuff -Siegfried and Roy![come to that ,Noah would have got his arse bitten if he'd tried to keep tigers in such a small enclosure]..
I don't for a minute believe that Adam appeared from nowhere. Even if he would have I have no doubt that God would have been able to accomplish that. After all what kind of a God would he be if he couldn't do something like create life?

As for the tigers biting Noah...have you read about Daniel being thrown into the lions den? Water into wine/feeding the 5000 with a hatful of piscatorial and bakery product/walking on water/assorted other miracles?All hearsay and legend.No evidence. Hearsay and legend? I guess that would make others in history hearsay and legend also. Even though there were hundreds that witnessed his miracles it's still just hearsay and legend? History books are filled with people that we only read about and don't know personally. Are they all just hearsay and legend?I could go through the various books of the Bible systematically and point out the obvious fictions,but that still wouldn't change the views of fundamentalist Christians.They are convinced that their beliefs are the stone cold truth and that anyone who begs to differ is either an idiot or a servant of Satan[another daffy made-up character,but never mind]
Because you don't believe in something doesn't make it fiction. It is fiction to you only because you don't believe in it.
Just because you don't believe the way I do I neither think you are an idiot or a servent of satan I do think you aren't a servant of God though. (although I do seem to remember a passage in the Bible that says something like ..If you are not for me then you are against me.) :naughty:

Of course Christians are convinced their beliefs are truth. It wouldn't make much sense to believe in something that you think might be a lie.Contrary to the beliefs of the bible-thumping minority of Christians in this forum,I have actually taken the trouble to study the bible,and christianity as a whole,and a few other religious belief structures into the bargain.I didn't find one that made complete sense to me,but the theories of evolution and evidence make more sense than all of the miracles and deities put together.So before you criticise me for not taking religion to heart,ask yourself if you have ever honestly given serious though to the possibility that you could be wrong?
I never once said you didn't look into the Bible or Christianity. (I also have never once thumped my Bible)
I have been at one time a non-Christian and I have studied evolution. I believe strongly in evolution. I am what you would call an Old earth creationist. I believe God created everything and set certain rules in place that would eventually bring people into the picture. I also believe that when the time was right he set a man (Adam) apart from the rest of the beings on the earth and put him in a place (The Garden of Eden) where he then gave him an everlasting soul which truely set him apart from all the other creatures of the earth. That's kind of a simplified version.

Anyway. Yes I have given it serious thought as to whether I am wrong or right. I have come to the logical conclusion in my life that I am right.

"If I wanted to play follow the leader, I'd be a Christian."
Seriously though, if any structured belief system (religion) was so great, why have most of them caused wars against entire races, where the blood of innocent people is spilled for no other reason than what they are believed to believe. :disappoin

There doesn't need to be enough water on the planet flood the entire surface of the earth. Only enough to flood all the known civilization at that time.





I'll shoot this one down further.The base of mount Ararat is 3000 feet above sea level,the summitover 5000.And yet that was allegedly where the tardis-like ark came to rest......there's no way it could have happened.

As for the rest of your post....You have just admitted that the scholars of the day new very little of the world,or its animals.Who's to say that the god that they invented,supposedly omni-present,could stretch his services to cover the 99% of the planet that the simple folk of the biblical lands didn't even know about?

Ihave yet to see any logical answers from you as to my reservations.But please don't be offended,I've never met a Christian yet who could back up his superstitions with facts.

If you are still in denial about the bible's shortcomings,get your copy out,and take a quick look at a few of the verses annotated here.

http://www.geocities.com/closetatheist/dminconsistencies.htm

Frankly,the bible as a definitife reference work is less reliable than the Reader's Digest Sweepstakes.

Im sorry tanarki, but I just read your site and you need to read the whole chapters and then you understand better and realize that the bible is the onlything in the world that is flawless. One one for instanse, cain didnt create a offering of a lamb and able did, so cain killed able because God was displeased with cain offering of grains. Other verses are from Genesis but the verses to refute them are from the new testament and are being taken out of context. Sites like that twist the bible around to make you think there is no God but in fact this person is going to feel the wrath of God if he dosent repent for his wickedness.

Im sorry tanarki, but I just read your site and you need to read the whole chapters and then you understand better and realize that the bible is the onlything in the world that is flawless.



Holy crap,if you really believe that,you're more gullible than I could ever have imagined

Sites like that twist the bible around to make you think there is no God but in fact this person is going to feel the wrath of God if he dosent repent for his wickedness.

WOOHOO.....Pretty pointless threat to those of us who know in our hearts that your God does not exist as portrayed by you.You are spouting every bad cliche from every second-rate t.v. evangelist in the hope that we might mistake it for some kind of truth.....here's the truth,lad....you can't prove a single word of your theories,and the bible has more holes in it than a broken sieve.Please,if you have no original thoughts on your superstitious beliefs,don't bother posting again.If you keep digging that hole for yourself,you'll never get out in time for church

'the Lord is my shepherd,for I am a sheep."

Wow.Getting pretty deeeeeeep in here.

Can I just ask one question?I was raised a Catholic.Had religion classes every day.Studied the Holy Land and all that.Always wondered about one simple thing;If the Holy Land was indeed Israel,and then there was Palestine,etc.HOW COME ALL THE GUYS HAD NAMES LIKE MATTHEW MARK LUKE AND JOHN?Go there today and try to find five guys named Mark.Dare ya.There all named,oh,I don't know,MIDDLE EASTERN NAMES and stuff.

Just wondering if maybe this book was written and re-written to serve other's purposes.Like kings,etc.

Anybody see the movie "Dogma"?I thought that was a brilliant take on the whole religion thing.The whole "Let's just imagine there IS a supreme being that IS in control of everything(and happens to look like Alanis Morrisette) but that the whole bible thing WAS given to the world and then perverted,misrepresented and misunderstood by us dumb humans."Really a great,funny film.Go see it.NOW.It might cause some of the hard-liners to at least think a little about their professed faith.

Dogma was a very blasphemus movie that took the whole entire bible out of context. They ripped into it any tried to destory the one flawless thing that has ever been put on the earth.

And tanarki, all my thoughts on this are origional, they were thougth of by God and put in "the bible".

Really though, did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?

Taranaki is my hero. :)

for the record Crapmaster4000 is the best user name i ever lik3d. :bloated:

I'll shoot this one down further.The base of mount Ararat is 3000 feet above sea level,the summitover 5000.And yet that was allegedly where the tardis-like ark came to rest......there's no way it could have happened..

The problem is that you limit Gods ability. In a way so do I by giving you an answer that limits the flood to just the known world. It is possible that the flood was contained to their known world or it could have been a world wide flood. I do know that many scientist have found evidence of a world wide flood but I'm not totally convinced of that yet. There are also those who believe that the flood was localized and I lean more towards that. Either way I see no reason to believe God isn't capable of doing either. If the flood was world wide then here is a site that gives some answers as to how it could have happened. Keep in mind I'm not convinced on the world wide flood yet.

http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html

I understand that this is a Christian site so I'm guessing you will just call it one sided.

As for the rest of your post....You have just admitted that the scholars of the day new very little of the world,or its animals.Who's to say that the god that they invented,supposedly omni-present,could stretch his services to cover the 99% of the planet that the simple folk of the biblical lands didn't even know about?

Why would you think the scholars of that should know more of the world than what they had seen? Scholars of 200 years ago knew very little of the U.S. because they hadn't seen it all yet.:rolleyes:

You're right about one thing though. Who's to say that the omni-present God didn't stretch his services out to cover all the earth. He has the ability.

Ihave yet to see any logical answers from you as to my reservations.But please don't be offended,I've never met a Christian yet who could back up his superstitions with facts.

What other reservations do you have other than the flood?


If you are still in denial about the bible's shortcomings,get your copy out,and take a quick look at a few of the verses annotated here.

http://www.geocities.com/closetatheist/dminconsistencies.htm

Frankly,the bible as a definitife reference work is less reliable than the Reader's Digest Sweepstakes.

I have seen that site before. Although interesting at first and worth looking into some of his "inconstancies". With very little searching it's easy to find answers to those "inconstancies". If you want some answers to these questions then you could simply look them up in here. There are also many other sites on the web like this one.As I said though...you will probably see it as one sided because it is Christian based .
http://www.christiananswers.net/home.html

__________________________________________________ _________
..unless energy was put into it.. such as.. from a lightning strike.. or geothermal activity..
__________________________________________________ _________

so you're saying that you know of a certain, molecule or atom, that if struck by lightning it can not only survive, but capture and use the energy to create more cells, and then this would have had to happened millions of times over billions of years according to evolution, then these cells would have had to organize themselves into organs, muscles, tissues, and eventualy, some sort of a brain that as we know it is the most complex thing in the universe. i don't buy it.

as for dogma, the writer was a catholic and made the whole movie as a joke, i thought it was very funny, but unfortunatley the pope didn't think so because he was excommunicated.(if ya know what that is)

Someone answer my question goddamnit!

Wow.Getting pretty deeeeeeep in here.

Can I just ask one question?I was raised a Catholic.Had religion classes every day.Studied the Holy Land and all that.Always wondered about one simple thing;If the Holy Land was indeed Israel,and then there was Palestine,etc.HOW COME ALL THE GUYS HAD NAMES LIKE MATTHEW MARK LUKE AND JOHN?Go there today and try to find five guys named Mark.Dare ya.There all named,oh,I don't know,MIDDLE EASTERN NAMES and stuff.


Have you ever read the bible? Those names are modern translations of the names of those particular men back then. Most of those men had Greek names. They were also not Jewish, as Jesus was. Almost the whole New Testament was written in Greek.

John= "Ioannes"
Mark = Markos
Luke = Loukas

Read the bible, then chastise it. Until then, get your stuff striaght.

To all you atheists out there, I have an interesting challenge. Read the Gospel of John. Just 21 chapters. Then come and talk to us about the validity of Jesus and the bible.

Also, do you atheists totally deny Jesus's existence or was he just a "great man"?

One more thing.....consider this... "He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God"