There really is no point to this.

Maybe he just has too many points on his license and didn't want to all out race. You know street racing is automatic license suspension.
And anyway how far did you take it? What did you beat him to like 40 then quit and say you one? LOL, thats a typical ricer. It's not a race unless you hit 100 MPH.


we stopped at 110 and he was one and maybe a half car lenth behind us

autotrader says that the 91 accord weighs 2857

Well I pulled those numbers right off autotrader.
Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, 300 pounds isn't going to make up for 85 HP, let alone well over 100 ft/lbs of torque.

He must have started late, just playing catch-up. He didn't notice your were racing until you were several car lengths in front.
Or maybe he missed a shift.

Are you kidding me? That accord runs a 16 second quarter mile! Full size trucks run faster than that. Ive owned a 91 5.0, and at the same time my gf had an accord which I drove sometimes. The Accord is a total DOG compared to a 5.0, you guys must be smoking crack.

OK who started this crap??? First of all let me state that I am not a ricer nor a musclehead, I go wkith whatever works period! So with that said let me rub a little reality into your head. First of all the Japs do build more reliable cars, don't beleave me just read any JD power or Edmunds, or Consumers report on avrage they beat us bad in that catagory. Yes it is true that we genraly make our sports cars with more power because the Japs are under a self imposed law stating that they cannot make cars with over 276hp, although they lie a little about their hp specs all the time (the 276hp Supra actualy makes about 320hp on the dyno) (the 276 HP Evo 6 made about 305) so on so forth. So what this boils down to is that American muscle can genraly whoop the Japs in a streight line, but since the Japs have put much more value on their cornering they thrash us there. Just compare the cornering numbers on a Camaro SS to the Evo 8 and you will see what I am saying. I for one prefer handeling over accelaration, so I genraly prefer cars like the 240SX and the RX7, while some people like nothing but a car that will slam you in the back of the seat, and that is your choice but to say that ours are just better is a dumb and unfounded statement. If that were true than Jap cars would have never cought on here to begin with. Just think about it for a second. My dad who grew up with nothing but American muscle his whole life bought a Toyota when gas prices shot up in the early 70's and he has never gone back. (none of them has ever broken down in 30 year of driving that I know of) the first car that I ever drove was an American V8 and the first time that I drove a Toyota I never looked back. I have owned two Toyotas (both of which I loved) and yesterday I started shoping for my third,(only once a Toyota left me on the side of the road and that was after a 55mph collision that totaled both cars!) and untill Detroid builds them BETTER than the Japs I will continue to buy them.

OK who started this crap??? First of all let me state that I am not a ricer nor a musclehead, I go wkith whatever works period! So with that said let me rub a little reality into your head. First of all the Japs do build more reliable cars, don't beleave me just read any JD power or Edmunds, or Consumers report on avrage they beat us bad in that catagory. Yes it is true that we genraly make our sports cars with more power because the Japs are under a self imposed law stating that they cannot make cars with over 276hp, although they lie a little about their hp specs all the time (the 276hp Supra actualy makes about 320hp on the dyno) (the 276 HP Evo 6 made about 305) so on so forth. So what this boils down to is that American muscle can genraly whoop the Japs in a streight line, but since the Japs have put much more value on their cornering they thrash us there. Just compare the cornering numbers on a Camaro SS to the Evo 8 and you will see what I am saying. I for one prefer handeling over accelaration, so I genraly prefer cars like the 240SX and the RX7, while some people like nothing but a car that will slam you in the back of the seat, and that is your choice but to say that ours are just better is a dumb and unfounded statement. If that were true than Jap cars would have never cought on here to begin with. Just think about it for a second. My dad who grew up with nothing but American muscle his whole life bought a Toyota when gas prices shot up in the early 70's and he has never gone back. (none of them has ever broken down in 30 year of driving that I know of) the first car that I ever drove was an American V8 and the first time that I drove a Toyota I never looked back. I have owned two Toyotas (both of which I loved) and yesterday I started shoping for my third,(only once a Toyota left me on the side of the road and that was after a 55mph collision that totaled both cars!) and untill Detroid builds them BETTER than the Japs I will continue to buy them.

I agree with Jared to a point, if you are looking for a nice reliable grocery getter, nothing beats a cheap import. I find it funny when these import drivers think their econobox is a sports car. Im reffering to cars like Honda/Acuras not Supras/rx7s.

I also notice people tend to compare brand new imports with older generation american cars. Ofcoarse a 5.0 or other american cars built 10+ years ago wont be as reliable as a 2004 import. When making comparisons, you also have to keep in mind the cost of the cars. You cant compare a $50,000 car to a $10,000 car. You have to compare apples to apples, and when you do that you will notice that most new american cars meet or exceed the reliability the japanese cars provide.

I agree with Jared to a point, if you are looking for a nice reliable grocery getter, nothing beats a cheap import. I find it funny when these import drivers think their econobox is a sports car. Im reffering to cars like Honda/Acuras not Supras/rx7s.

I also notice people tend to compare brand new imports with older generation american cars. Ofcoarse a 5.0 or other american cars built 10+ years ago wont be as reliable as a 2004 import. When making comparisons, you also have to keep in mind the cost of the cars. You cant compare a $50,000 car to a $10,000 car. You have to compare apples to apples, and when you do that you will notice that most new american cars meet or exceed the reliability the japanese cars provide.


Yea most young punks think that since they own a Civic or a Sentra, all they need is a cold air intake and crome exaust tip to somke a Stang or Camaro. The truth of the matter is that those Civics that really can take a V8 have thousands of dollars in modifacations, and most likley a really smart builder behind them. But I was comparing apples to apples when I compared the SS to the Evo here are the stats. 2002 Camaro 29k (base), 13.5 1/4 mile 310hp, .87g 200ft skidpad, aprox 3400lbs to the 2004 Evo 28k (base) 13.06 1/4 mile, 271hp, .97g on the 200ft skidpad, 3268lbs. That is as fare a comparison as you can make since they don't build the Camaro anymore, and I wanted to use the camaro since it is faster than the Stang in stock form. If you know of any other under 30k American car that would be a better representitive please let me know. The American cars do not quite match the Japs for reliability yet although they are narrowing the gap every year, in fact the 2002 Camaro/Firebird was above avarage reliability according to JD power, which is quite an accomplishment for an American sportscar and even I would risk the ridicule of my ricer friends to own one. (if only it could tow my boat). One more thing watch out for a few American cars in particular when it comes to reliability, most of the FWDs are particularly bad in this area. (Focus, Cavilar, Neon...ect) (Americans should stick to building RWD anyway we are good at it)

Yea most young punks think that since they own a Civic or a Sentra, all they need is a cold air intake and crome exaust tip to somke a Stang or Camaro. The truth of the matter is that those Civics that really can take a V8 have thousands of dollars in modifacations, and most likley a really smart builder behind them. But I was comparing apples to apples when I compared the SS to the Evo here are the stats. 2002 Camaro 29k (base), 13.5 1/4 mile 310hp, .87g 200ft skidpad, aprox 3400lbs to the 2004 Evo 28k (base) 13.06 1/4 mile, 271hp, .97g on the 200ft skidpad, 3268lbs. That is as fare a comparison as you can make since they don't build the Camaro anymore, and I wanted to use the camaro since it is faster than the Stang in stock form. If you know of any other under 30k American car that would be a better representitive please let me know. The American cars do not quite match the Japs for reliability yet although they are narrowing the gap every year, in fact the 2002 Camaro/Firebird was above avarage reliability according to JD power, which is quite an accomplishment for an American sportscar and even I would risk the ridicule of my ricer friends to own one. (if only it could tow my boat). One more thing watch out for a few American cars in particular when it comes to reliability, most of the FWDs are particularly bad in this area. (Focus, Cavilar, Neon...ect) (Americans should stick to building RWD anyway we are good at it)

The SS is a great value for what it costs, and it actually comes very underrated from the factory. The 01-02 LS1s actually dyno 320-330rwhp to the wheels. Which is actually ~380hp at the crank considering a 15% drivetrain loss. These things run almost identical times as the Corvette. With a competant driver 01/02 LS1s can run a high 12 sec 1/4 mile in stock showroom floor form. I dont pay much attention to stats found in magazines because I have found them to be false and inconsistant on many occations. Just look at the #s they got for the 03 Cobra, they are ridiculous. In the case of the Evo it is a GREAT performer, and its one of the very few cars I can respect from Japan. You mentioned a 13.06 1/4 mile time, while im not saying thats not possible, when Ive seen them run at the track, they usually pull anywhere between 13.6-14.5 depending on how hard they dump the clutch. But im sure they can out handle the SS, although I dont think it will outhandle the camaro with 1LA, which consists of a Bilstien suspension package. The problem I see with the Evo in terms of sales, is that its essensially a Lancer with more power, and thats how the majority of the population will see it. Believe it or not, we, the performance car enthusiasts, are a small minority in the car market. Cars like the Mustang & Corvette have a long heritage and appeal to a bigger majority including us car nuts. Thats why they have been succesfull for so long. A regular joe shmoe will not go pay $30,000 for a lancer. But he will most likely fork out 21k for a GT, 29k for a cobra, or 50k for the infamous corvette. If you want proof of this, look around on your local streets, try to find how many Evos you see cruising around, Ive never seen one in Dallas, and only saw 1 in Austin when I lived there. Im not talking about the track, just everyday driving. Thats why I think the Evo will not last very long in the US car market.

For me personally, I want a car that has a flat tourqe curve throughout the entire powerband. Turbo 4 bangers can make great power with alot of PSI moving through it, but it wont make real power until it reaches real high rpms (read: S2000). I spend most of my time between 1000-3000 rpm driving on the street, and thats where I want power, aswell as upper rpms. Thats what makes it fun to drive. Unfortunatly a v8+ is the only way to achieve this. For an example, when im launching, I launch off the idle, and feather the gas/clutch. An evo has to burn its clutch, and launch 4000+ rpms, try launching that evo without a clutch dump, and see what kind of times it runs...I will guess 14.5+. Not dissing the Evo, just personal prefference here.


Sorry, went off on a rant! :iceslolan

The SS is a great value for what it costs, and it actually comes very underrated from the factory. The 01-02 LS1s actually dyno 320-330rwhp to the wheels. Which is actually ~380hp at the crank considering a 15% drivetrain loss. These things run almost identical times as the Corvette. With a competant driver 01/02 LS1s can run a high 12 sec 1/4 mile in stock showroom floor form. I dont pay much attention to stats found in magazines because I have found them to be false and inconsistant on many occations. Just look at the #s they got for the 03 Cobra, they are ridiculous. In the case of the Evo it is a GREAT performer, and its one of the very few cars I can respect from Japan. You mentioned a 13.06 1/4 mile time, while im not saying thats not possible, when Ive seen them run at the track, they usually pull anywhere between 13.6-14.5 depending on how hard they dump the clutch. But im sure they can out handle the SS, although I dont think it will outhandle the camaro with 1LA, which consists of a Bilstien suspension package. The problem I see with the Evo in terms of sales, is that its essensially a Lancer with more power, and thats how the majority of the population will see it. Believe it or not, we, the performance car enthusiasts, are a small minority in the car market. Cars like the Mustang & Corvette have a long heritage and appeal to a bigger majority including us car nuts. Thats why they have been succesfull for so long. A regular joe shmoe will not go pay $30,000 for a lancer. But he will most likely fork out 21k for a GT, 29k for a cobra, or 50k for the infamous corvette. If you want proof of this, look around on your local streets, try to find how many Evos you see cruising around, Ive never seen one in Dallas, and only saw 1 in Austin when I lived there. Im not talking about the track, just everyday driving. Thats why I think the Evo will not last very long in the US car market.

For me personally, I want a car that has a flat tourqe curve throughout the entire powerband. Turbo 4 bangers can make great power with alot of PSI moving through it, but it wont make real power until it reaches real high rpms (read: S2000). I spend most of my time between 1000-3000 rpm driving on the street, and thats where I want power, aswell as upper rpms. Thats what makes it fun to drive. Unfortunatly a v8+ is the only way to achieve this. For an example, when im launching, I launch off the idle, and feather the gas/clutch. An evo has to burn its clutch, and launch 4000+ rpms, try launching that evo without a clutch dump, and see what kind of times it runs...I will guess 14.5+. Not dissing the Evo, just personal prefference here.


Sorry, went off on a rant! :iceslolan




There is no denying that the Z28 and SS were great cars for the money, but I have never heard of one that can do the 600ft slolom at over 71mph. That is faster than any Vette ever made. If you look at Motor Trend they say that the 02 SS does the 1/4 in 13.5, now I am not saying that it is not possable to do it any better but they have pretty good drivers there. In fact they were the ones who got that Evo to 13.06. Yea I know that the Evos lanuch is based on how harsh you are on the clutch, and that the stock cluch is not as good as it should be, but all in all I still say that the Evo is a top of the line car. As far as how many of them are around I don't know about in Texas, but even in po-dunk south Mississippi there are several real Evos running around. (plus a few wannabees with body kits) Plus you gatta consider that they have only been out for less than a year now, give them a little time to catch on. By the way the Evo spools up (making its full 19psi of boost) at only 3000RPM so you don't have to run redline to get decent power like with the NA 4 bangers. You do have a point about the NA V8s great low end power, but on the track that does not matter and that is where the Evo seemes to shine the brightest.

Agreed. :)

By the way, I would expect them to have a much better time with the Evo than a tourqey RWD anyday. AWD are MUCH easier to launch, takes alot of the guesswork & practice out of the launch. Unlike launching...my car lol. I cant control the wheel spin. My 1-2 shift gets me almost sideways no matter what rpm I shift at. Feels like I lose .3 sec just in that shift. 2-3 shift kicks the back out also, and loses more time by spinning the tires more. This was my experience on street tires, and the drag radials make a huge difference, which showed in my times. I went from a 13.9 to 13.4. Not bad, still has more in it.

So this whole import vs. domsestic thing really is a bunch of crap. If you love hairpin turns, brain jarring breaking, and don't mind a 1/2 second lag on accelaration, go import. If you want instant power, and a flat torque curve from idel to redline, and don't mind having to slow down a little in the corners go American Iron. Both do a great job at what they are built for and the Americans are starting to catch up with the Japs in reliability, and fuel efficency. But whatever you do don't buy one of those wannabe jap cars, the Kias are crap, and the American built jap wanabees are below par (except for the SRT-4). And for Pete's sake if you do go American GET A RWD!

I tell you what, American cars aren't what they used to be but nobody can deny the American muscle cars from the 60's and 70's being better than the japanese stuff unless you like inline-4's for some reason :lol2: . So if power and styling doesn't matter to you you most likely own a japanese car.

I tell you what, American cars aren't what they used to be but nobody can deny the American muscle cars from the 60's and 70's being better than the japanese stuff unless you like inline-4's for some reason :lol2: . So if power and styling doesn't matter to you you most likely own a japanese car.


What planet do you live on? Have you even seen an RX7 or a 350Z? Are you trying to tell me that that is not styling? Granted the late 60's cars had a certain look to them that was haunting, but to say that the R390 was not a piece of art on wheels is insanity. You have probably never seen a Toyota GT1 have you? Do you know what an NSX is? And what is wrong with four cylinders?? If I am making more HP and more torque out of a 2.0 than your 5.7, where is the disadvantage? A few years ago I compared the Evo 6 to the Z28, and the Evo 6 had not only more HP but more low end torque too!!! All in a lighter car with much better traction and AWD! Take your narrow minded crap and go argue with those idiot ricers. You know the ones that think that they have V4s and think that turbos make forced injection. You will have no trouble finding your mindless arguments in there.

So this whole import vs. domsestic thing really is a bunch of crap. If you love hairpin turns, brain jarring breaking, and don't mind a 1/2 second lag on accelaration, go import. If you want instant power, and a flat torque curve from idel to redline, and don't mind having to slow down a little in the corners go American Iron. Both do a great job at what they are built for and the Americans are starting to catch up with the Japs in reliability, and fuel efficency. But whatever you do don't buy one of those wannabe jap cars, the Kias are crap, and the American built jap wanabees are below par (except for the SRT-4). And for Pete's sake if you do go American GET A RWD!


Umm, I dont slow down for turns?? And I have awsome braking...and I have no lag on power either.

Oh yea, and I get 24mpg in the city too, & never had any reliability issues. There is something that my car can do that no import ever can...sound good! It has balls ;)

What planet do you live on? Have you even seen an RX7 or a 350Z? Are you trying to tell me that that is not styling? Granted the late 60's cars had a certain look to them that was haunting, but to say that the R390 was not a piece of art on wheels is insanity. You have probably never seen a Toyota GT1 have you? Do you know what an NSX is? And what is wrong with four cylinders?? If I am making more HP and more torque out of a 2.0 than your 5.7, where is the disadvantage? A few years ago I compared the Evo 6 to the Z28, and the Evo 6 had not only more HP but more low end torque too!!! All in a lighter car with much better traction and AWD! Take your narrow minded crap and go argue with those idiot ricers. You know the ones that think that they have V4s and think that turbos make forced injection. You will have no trouble finding your mindless arguments in there.

first of all, I know all the cars you are talking about, R390, GT-one, nsx etc.(to be honest the best look I've had at a GT1 is from Gran Turismo 3)
second the GTO is 6.5 not 5.7, the new GTO is 5.7.
third how much hp does your 2.0 make?, I guarantee that the engine on my 69' makes plenty more.
forth I agree with you that the R390 is a beautiful automobile and that japanese cars aren't without, their charms, but you have to admit the GT-one looks a little wierd doesn't it? I'm not like those bloody idiots you are refering to, I have had conversations with them and they don't know what the hell they're talking about. That is funny that they think they have v-4's, isn't it. back to subject no matter how much it seems like I am, I'm not trying to offend you, im sorry if i did.

well this is a lil off the topic but i do have a point. in the early 80s there was a comparison between a datsun pick up with a four banger and dodge ram with a v6. the dodge ram had more power then the datsun but the datsun still towed more weight had better fuel economy.

And that means what mike? Less displacement makes more tourqe? :eek7:

Umm, I dont slow down for turns?? And I have awsome braking...and I have no lag on power either.

Sorry the Japs make the best breaking sportscars Evo does 60-0 in 106ft much better than any Stang. And that lag in power that I was talking about is for the turbo imports.

first of all, I know all the cars you are talking about, R390, GT-one, nsx etc.(to be honest the best look I've had at a GT1 is from Gran Turismo 3)
second the GTO is 6.5 not 5.7, the new GTO is 5.7.
third how much hp does your 2.0 make?, I guarantee that the engine on my 69' makes plenty more.
forth I agree with you that the R390 is a beautiful automobile and that japanese cars aren't without, their charms, but you have to admit the GT-one looks a little wierd doesn't it? I'm not like those bloody idiots you are refering to, I have had conversations with them and they don't know what the hell they're talking about. That is funny that they think they have v-4's, isn't it. back to subject no matter how much it seems like I am, I'm not trying to offend you, im sorry if i did.


I used the 5.7 comparison because people usualy caompare the Camaro to the Evo I have never riden in a 60s GTO so I cannot campare with those. Don't worry it takes alot to really offend me, it's all good. I love talking with those ricer idiots, they make me feel smarter every time I write them, "I'm gaanna slap a cld ar intke on mi civk and smok your muzteng". It is like arguing in the retard community just with alot more cussing.

Sorry the Japs make the best breaking sportscars Evo does 60-0 in 106ft much better than any Stang. And that lag in power that I was talking about is for the turbo imports.

Jared, put the magazines down please. My stang hadled and brakes like a champ, straight from the factory. With a simple spring/shock settup I have now, I can out corner almost anything on the road. Its MORE than enough cornering/braking ability that I will EVER use on the street. I dont autox so I really dont care if there is a jap car somewhere that can slalom, .05 g's better than my car. It makes no difference. Because fact is I have a better all around package, I have all the handling & braking I can possibly use, plus I have mounds of tourque, and a low 13 second car. (easily high 12 sec, with the proper suspension settup). And my car sounds good while doing it. And like I told you in the beggining, go out there and see for yourself, stop reading magazines, their #s are skewed to hell. I get my #s from the track.

I also like how you generalize "jap cars are better in blah blah...", fact is most jap cars are NOT better performance in anything. There is a couple out of the slew of under achievers, that are descent and they cost $30,000+. I paid 21K for my car, find me a Jap car to contend with me on my price level please. :loser:

[QUOTE=skrow03GT]And that means what mike? Less displacement makes more tourqe? :eek7

nope my point is there is replacement for displacement

[QUOTE=skrow03GT]And that means what mike? Less displacement makes more tourqe? :eek7

nope my point is there is replacement for displacement

Ok, youre comparing a 4cyl datsun truck, and a 6cyl dodge truck in the 80s??? :screwy: The only way I see this possible is if the datsun truck was a small light truck, and the dodge was a big heavy truck. That sais nothing about engine displacement, you even stated the v6 made more hp/tq. Plus, where did you get this information?

The only thing that can help smaller displacement is a power adder, which can also be added to the higher displacement, so in essence, no...there is no replacement for displacement.

Ok, youre comparing a 4cyl datsun truck, and a 6cyl dodge truck in the 80s??? :screwy: The only way I see this possible is if the datsun truck was a small light truck, and the dodge was a big heavy truck. That sais nothing about engine displacement, you even stated the v6 made more hp/tq. Plus, where did you get this information?

The only thing that can help smaller displacement is a power adder, which can also be added to the higher displacement, so in essence, no...there is no replacement for displacement.


y not go read something before you assume someone is lieing. there was a documentary about japanese production there where motorcycles ans generators. what does size of the truck have to do with towing amount?

What do you mean? Use some common sense, It has to tow its own weight first, if it weighs 4000lb compared to a lightweight 2800lb thats a big difference. Why are you comparing 2 odd trucks from the 80s? Are you trying to tell me a 4banger has better towing capacity, stop being a moron.

you guys need to get a life, your fighting over cars, i like cars a lot too, but fighting like you guys do is pathetic, its so stupid and pointless, muscle cars are fast, but they cant do shit on a circuit like japanese cars can do, so each cars have their ups and downs

It all depends on how you take care of your auto! However, here's spme of my experiences since everyone is stating their opinion . . .

I had a 1984 Jeep Cherokee with a Chrysler, cast iron 4 that put 469,000 miles on it before I sold it to my dad and he put on another 89,000 before he sold it.

My Ford Explorer V8 all wheel drive has 89,000 miles on it and I have not done anything but maintanance on it and still get 19 mpg on trips and nobody passes me - I ordered the same engine that went into the Mustang Cobra that year!

I have to agree that some jap cars are better but look at their price tags and still . . . still no one makes the power cars Americans do and the sound is not the same coming out of a jap so called muscle car . . . we invented - we still claim it - go American!

Listen to American muscle car sounds at www.flowmastermufflers.com and tell me which sounds better - American or Jap?

first thing is please dont say 'jap' why can't you just use import, or asian import, or japanese import, but jap, seems kinda racist, and comparing to sounds i like japanese cars better who would want their car to be loud as hell and give out no power like many muscle cars i've seen

i like both imports and domestics. Just like the title "There really is no point to this." there really is no point to my answer, but normal ppl dont know a dang bout performance so i think joe noone will buy a $25000 05 300hp mustang gt over a 05 $30000 Lancer Evo cause of more hp for less no matter that the evo will prolly perform better.

Oh I'm sorry I'll say Japanese like you did in the reply above me, big difference! IMPORTS have tried for years to imitate what we invented and if it was about noise then the Japanese would not have come over here in the mid 90s and paid outlandish prices for US Muscle cars!

They actually drove the prices up for a few years and many of the hot ones still retain those prices.

You want power & noise (that's a Muscle car) then you go with the good ol USA!!!

I amonly making the post because I see you guys arguing about the corolla and grand prix and which is better. I have owned both. While the Grand Prix GTP had a lot more power and was more fun to drive, the reliability sucked. something was always wrong. My corolla was an '87. I never put a dime into repairs, just gas and oil. I was really sad when I wrecked the grand prix, but I really dont think it would have lasted anywhere close to the 17(and counting) years my corolla has. the grand prix was a '95. I am also going to have to agree with the people know american cars aren't as good as. Love my country and all, but I would buy a nissan or a toyota.

Jared, put the magazines down please. My stang hadled and brakes like a champ, straight from the factory. With a simple spring/shock settup I have now, I can out corner almost anything on the road. Its MORE than enough cornering/braking ability that I will EVER use on the street. I dont autox so I really dont care if there is a jap car somewhere that can slalom, .05 g's better than my car. It makes no difference. Because fact is I have a better all around package, I have all the handling & braking I can possibly use, plus I have mounds of tourque, and a low 13 second car. (easily high 12 sec, with the proper suspension settup). And my car sounds good while doing it. And like I told you in the beggining, go out there and see for yourself, stop reading magazines, their #s are skewed to hell. I get my #s from the track.

I also like how you generalize "jap cars are better in blah blah...", fact is most jap cars are NOT better performance in anything. There is a couple out of the slew of under achievers, that are descent and they cost $30,000+. I paid 21K for my car, find me a Jap car to contend with me on my price level please. :loser:


The base Evo is 28k and the faster RS is only 26k get your numbers right. Is the extra 5k worth the 1.4 seconds faster 0-60? Is it worth the faster breaking? is it worth the extra.09g? To me darn right it is, you try to find me an American car for under 30k that can match the Evo in half of the major proformance catagories (1/4 mile, 0-60, 60-0....ect). Go ahead and try. I am no ricer but I will not let sombody just bash the best import sportscar around either. Reserch it for yourself and you will see what I mean. Later. :loser:

Sure, 03 cobra comes to mind its a mid to high 12 sec car from the showroom floor. It sounds good, has tourque across the powerband for fun daily driving, has muscle car looks to match. It comes with IRS, its handling is nice, although not as good as the evos , but like I said the minute .0x variables in handling argument is stupid. It is not difficult to achieve 1.xx+ Gs on a skidpad, which is impressive for a 3600~lb car. If you dont think so, maybe you should stob by and talk to the guys from corner-carvers.com.

The 0-60 is stats for the Evo are decietfull also, considering you have todo high rpm clutch dumps to achieve this. Your clutch wont be up for that very long, and im not sure if its the wrx or the evo that has the horribly weak transmision.

Point is while an Evo huffs and puffs in double digit PSI numbers, and clutch burning launches to achieve its best numbers, its not practical power that is available under your right foot when compared to a broad tourqe curved supercharged v8 that is boosted at a concervative ~8PSI. The 03 Cobra guys are making 500rwhp and similar tourqe from boltons. Using the stock fuel system, ignition, untouched block, etc.

Dont get me wrong, I respect a Evo, but like I addressed in a previous post, you are in essense buying a $30,000 lancer, For that amount of $$ I would MUCH rather be seen in a Cobra or a used C5 corvette. Thats just my opinion though.

You never answered my question either, find me something to compete with my GT for 20~k from Japan... Im not talking about striped down base models either?? Mine is premium (leather, 2-tone, in dash 6 disk changer, 460watt 6 speaker stereo, power seat, etc) with the interior upgrade package, and cobra rims!

Also, 1.4 seconds?? Are you trying to tell me a 99+ GT runs 14.7? LOL

100% stock GTs run anywhere from 13.8-14.2. Mine ran 14.01 @ 99mph and it was capable of a high 13 sec time stock. Its as simple as tires and you are looking @ 13.7s.

Evos run 13.3s at best, with a majority of them running between 13.6-14.5s as Ive witnessed at the track. Where is the 1.4 sec difference? If anything its 0.5 seconds.

Lets recap, 5,000rpm clutch dumps to achieve those times, go to the Evo board and notice people needing to change their clutch @ 2000 miles on the car. No Thanks.

Not to mention the fastest Evo in the states is only runing 11.6 times, thats WITH nitrous. Cars in its price class like the 03+ Cobra are doing that with minimal bolt-ons + tires with the faster ones in the low 10s with untouched block & IRS.

http://www.fordpower.net/forums/timeslips.php?

The sad part is, with all the $$ invested in the Evo, it has to use wild cams, lots of porting work, and race gas! These guys in 03 cobras are runing those times with 1/5th invested in simple bolt-ons. Alot of them doing this with factory warranties, try bringing your Evo in to service with engine work, and see how long it takes them to laugh you off the lot. :rofl:

You never answered my question either, find me something to compete with my GT for 20~k from Japan... Im not talking about striped down base models either?? Mine is premium (leather, 2-tone, in dash 6 disk changer, 460watt 6 speaker stereo, power seat, etc) with the interior upgrade package, and cobra rims![/QUOTE]



well how bout a silvia with a sr20det

how bout an FTO with v6

Mike is that a US car thats currently produced? Is the sr20det the engine that comes in the car stock? Never heard of a FTO either?

Mike is that a US car thats currently produced? Is the sr20det the engine that comes in the car stock? Never heard of a FTO either?


yes the sr20det is the stock engine, and oh now it has to be a production car all i saww was a car from japan, ok fine how bout a 1999 eclipse GSX in 1999 on could be had for 23000

Mike is that a US car thats currently produced? Is the sr20det the engine that comes in the car stock? Never heard of a FTO either?


now you now that americas rules and regs for forion cars to be production over here it has to be downtuned

ans the fto is a mitsubishi, and if you had never heard of it then you need to stop comparing japanese import to american cuz you dont know much about japanese cars. look it up and learn.

not like american cars can do shit,
all they can do well is a 1/4, thats just as bad as nascar, but nobody figures it out, muscle cars have the worst handling, plus who would want to go in a straight line when you can do curves done a mountain road?

Ofcoarse it has to be a production car, why the hell would I want to compare to something I cant buy?? Also, I could care less what they produce in Japan only. I live in America, you cant buy those cars.

Sorry, but the 1999 Eclipse GSX is not going to beat a 99 Mustang GT stock vs. stock. Try again though. They will run a mid-high 14 second quarter mile stock though, which is close. Then again it relies on AWD, so it would get murdered from a roll.

gigle, what are you talking about? Im just wondering, what kind of cars do you and mike drive? Ive owned 3 jap cars and 2 mustangs in the last few years. My current Mustang can handle great, it would out handle that riced out civic that im sure both of you worship. I tear it up on twisty roads, you must be comparing muscle cars of the 60's??? Its 2004, get a grip.

Ofcoarse it has to be a production car, why the hell would I want to compare to something I cant buy?? Also, I could care less what they produce in Japan only. I live in America, you cant buy those cars.

Sorry, but the 1999 Eclipse GSX is not going to beat a 99 Mustang GT stock vs. stock. Try again though. They will run a mid-high 14 second quarter mile stock though, which is close. Then again it relies on AWD, so it would get murdered from a roll.

gigle, what are you talking about? Im just wondering, what kind of cars do you and mike drive? Ive owned 3 jap cars and 2 mustangs in the last few years. My current Mustang can handle great, it would out handle that riced out civic that im sure both of you worship. I tear it up on twisty roads, you must be comparing muscle cars of the 60's??? Its 2004, get a grip.


not all import fans love the civic i love more along the lines of a skyline, 3000gt or a 240zx. and why do people think that 4bangers cant start from a roll my grad am 2.2 liter 4 can run 60 to 80 in bout 4 and a half sec. ok so the eclpise will lose from a roll but what about a twistie road.

It loses from a role because its AWD.

60-80 in 4.5 sec? :lol2:

My car handles great on a "twisty road". Goto www.corner-carvers.com

Who races on the street around twisty turns? Thats retarted.

Who races on the street around twisty turns? Thats retarted.
Yeah, just go buy an old 6 cylinder Buick, put a couple of G's in it and do 10's! The pic is the burnout before a low 11's run.
Jeff
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/126915bluesmokes-med.jpg

It loses from a role because its AWD.

60-80 in 4.5 sec? :lol2:

My car handles great on a "twisty road". Goto www.corner-carvers.com

Who races on the street around twisty turns? Thats retarted.


i have a 3000 lbs ecno car with a 145 hp engine what do you expect my point was i know the evo will get from 60 to 80 in 2 sec.

It loses from a role because its AWD.

60-80 in 4.5 sec? :lol2:

My car handles great on a "twisty road". Goto www.corner-carvers.com

Who races on the street around twisty turns? Thats retarted.


as for ya twisty comment ahhh autocross. if i could afford it i would the heck with drag racing thats my oppinion of course.

who would want their car to be loud as hell and give out no power like many muscle cars i've seen

:banghead:

Oh, now hang on a minute.

You can't say something like that, you say Muscle Cars are loud with no power? Please, I mean come on, you give me a factory produced Japanese car from the late 60s that was as loud and had as much power as ANY Muscle Car did. May I ask if you have ever heard a 426 Hemi in the metal? Have you ever read ANY technical information on 30 year old Muscle Cars? Yes, they don't have the best handling around but you are probably basing that off the 30 year old technology that they are running on. You can always buy better disc brakes and better springs and shock absorbers, but you can never buy what Muscle Cars bought to the world, no matter what.
No cars will ever compare to the true beauty of Muscle Cars. You said we need a live, fighting over cars, no one is fighting, it's an argument, you know. A conversation when opinions don't agree with each other.

Think proper statistics before you post silly things. Alot of cars would not exist today if Muscle Cars weren't around to inspire the designers.

:banghead:

Oh, now hang on a minute.

You can't say something like that, you say Muscle Cars are loud with no power? Please, I mean come on, you give me a factory produced Japanese car from the late 60s that was as loud and had as much power as ANY Muscle Car did. May I ask if you have ever heard a 426 Hemi in the metal? Have you ever read ANY technical information on 30 year old Muscle Cars? Yes, they don't have the best handling around but you are probably basing that off the 30 year old technology that they are running on. You can always buy better disc brakes and better springs and shock absorbers, but you can never buy what Muscle Cars bought to the world, no matter what.
No cars will ever compare to the true beauty of Muscle Cars. You said we need a live, fighting over cars, no one is fighting, it's an argument, you know. A conversation when opinions don't agree with each other.

Think proper statistics before you post silly things. Alot of cars would not exist today if Muscle Cars weren't around to inspire the designers.



only america is going the way of muscle cars. i hate the idea of so much power not getting to the ground. dont have 400 hosres and 0-60 your is being beat by a 4 banger with 271 hp, your 1/4 miles time is better by a few 100s of a sec. you top speed are both governed at a few apart, your handles dont even compare. my point ever one rants aneaves about sound i say so what. i want a sleeper car not something that other residents would complain about. and most of all torque and power means nothing if ya have trouble getting it to the ground. oh and in the late 60s japan was content with putting tvs in ya home.

Holy crap learn how to type properly, I feel like I just read a post in Slovakian.
Your enthusiasm to cars is of little of value to me, especially reading the first line in your signature.
Also, yes there is more to racing then a straight line, there are many forms of racing and drag racing is one of them. You obviously like drag racing if you take bullshit lines from those stupid Fast and Furious movies because those '10 second cars' were all about it. There is no need to disrespect Nascar either, it's the art of racing at high level speed, one small mistake can cost you your life. That means you are always filled with adrenaline, if you don't like it then, that's great but I don't care.
I would never call someone like you a real car enthusiast. To me a real car enthusiast is someone who has the utmost respect for all forms of cars, especially the eras of cars that started most of the crazes today, you are not one of those people.

Edit: Sorry, we are talking about cars here, not TV :rolleyes:
We are, right? :uhoh:

:cya: well nascar is sure :sleeping: :sleep: to watch after the first lap. but...mostly :iamwithst and..."oh and in the late 60s japan was content with putting tvs in ya home"?! what the...!? :cya: :newburn: :swear: :nutkick: :killbarne

[QUOTE=Purpura Delujo]Holy crap learn how to type properly, I feel like I just read a post in Slovakian.
Your enthusiasm to cars is of little of value to me, especially reading the first line in your signature.
Also, yes there is more to racing then a straight line, there are many forms of racing and drag racing is one of them. You obviously like drag racing if you take bullshit lines from those stupid Fast and Furious movies because those '10 second cars' were all about it. There is no need to disrespect Nascar either, it's the art of racing at high level speed, one small mistake can cost you your life. That means you are always filled with adrenaline, if you don't like it then, that's great but I don't care.
I would never call someone like you a real car enthusiast. To me a real car enthusiast is someone who has the utmost respect for all forms of cars, especially the eras of cars that started most of the crazes today, you are not one of those people.

Edit: Sorry, we are talking about cars here, not TV :rolleyes:
We are, right? :uhoh:

car enthusiast? well seeing how i prefer great power to rate ratio, and handles. yea im more like an japanese import enthusiast

Good, then stop saying shit about cars you know nothing about.

Also, 1.4 seconds?? Are you trying to tell me a 99+ GT runs 14.7? LOL

100% stock GTs run anywhere from 13.8-14.2. Mine ran 14.01 @ 99mph and it was capable of a high 13 sec time stock. Its as simple as tires and you are looking @ 13.7s.

Evos run 13.3s at best, with a majority of them running between 13.6-14.5s as Ive witnessed at the track. Where is the 1.4 sec difference? If anything its 0.5 seconds.

Lets recap, 5,000rpm clutch dumps to achieve those times, go to the Evo board and notice people needing to change their clutch @ 2000 miles on the car. No Thanks.

Not to mention the fastest Evo in the states is only runing 11.6 times, thats WITH nitrous. Cars in its price class like the 03+ Cobra are doing that with minimal bolt-ons + tires with the faster ones in the low 10s with untouched block & IRS.

http://www.fordpower.net/forums/timeslips.php?

The sad part is, with all the $$ invested in the Evo, it has to use wild cams, lots of porting work, and race gas! These guys in 03 cobras are runing those times with 1/5th invested in simple bolt-ons. Alot of them doing this with factory warranties, try bringing your Evo in to service with engine work, and see how long it takes them to laugh you off the lot. :rofl:


Darn mods banned me and now I have to use a new name, fortunetly I can change my name and IP in only about 45 seconds. Anyway this is Jared_80 and what is this carp that you are talking! The Evo runs a 13.0 if you want to argue that argue with motor trend! Yea if you put a stupid driver in it it probably will only run a 14 second 1/4 mile but the same is true for the Cobra too so lets skip the stupid numbers spin and stick with recorded numbers and reality. If you don't want to do that than you are too stupid to argue with anyway. For the seven thousand dollar difference between the Cobra and the Evo I could easly tweek the eve into the low 12s or high 11s. Don't beleve me just read what SCC did to their Evo!! As far as your fastest Evo crap I'll easly find you one that totaly smokes that where do you get this nonesence from???? Anyway I gatta go just keep telling yourself that the SVT will alyays be faster and maby you will convence yourself that it is true in spite of reality, or you can wake up and see that that four door four banger famaly car beats your expensive unpractical unrelieable musclecar in nearly every proformance test. Later

Jesus, why is it all you keyboard cowboy import kids who know nothing about cars always make me end up taking the side of the muscle car guy?

car enthusiast? well seeing how i prefer great power to rate ratio, and handles. yea im more like an japanese import enthusiast

I truly wish you weren't, you're making all of us import drivers look bad. If you're about cars that accelerate fast, corner hard, perform well in general, you're a car enthusiast, cuz there are cars that match that made everywhere. If all you like is japanese imports, you're just as close minded and ignorant as the guys who only like Mustangs or the guys who only like trucks.

All American "Phsyo"... you make one more inflammatory post like that, ANYWHERE, that I see, and you'll be banned again. You don't have to act like an immature asshole to express your opinion. And about your post...

1. I've already told you many times that Motor Trend did not run a 13.0 in that EVO! You are seriously thick headed to still not understand that's a corrected time. Cut the magazine racing already!

2. Low 11's with $7000 in an EVO? :lol: The Norris Designs EVO has over $110,000 invested, and with over 600 hp to the wheels it runs 10.8.

Good, then stop saying shit about cars you know nothing about.


define nothing? lol talking trash no im not i never once said that american muscle is junk or pieces of crap im merely saying that this car is quicker or handles better. i own american.

I truly wish you weren't, you're making all of us import drivers look bad. If you're about cars that accelerate fast, corner hard, perform well in general, you're a car enthusiast, cuz there are cars that match that made everywhere. If all you like is japanese imports, you're just as close minded and ignorant as the guys who only like Mustangs or the guys who only like trucks.



i own a grand am, i do like more then just japanese import i have to talk then up when others are putting them down. y is it that muscle car guys arnt respecting the evo oh my there's a good question?





1. I've already told you many times that Motor Trend did not run a 13.0 in that EVO! You are seriously thick headed to still not understand that's a corrected time. Cut the magazine racing already!


ok did i read wrong when i read Motor trend ran a 13.08 in the evo?
i do wear glasses.


2. Low 11's with $7000 in an EVO? :lol: The Norris Designs EVO has over $110,000 invested, and with over 600 hp to the wheels it runs 10.8.

did they not know what they were doing $110,000 invested in my car i could do that or better.

ok did i read wrong when i read Motor trend ran a 13.08 in the evo?
i do wear glasses.

What are you Jared's alter-ego? Yes it says "13.08" for the EVO in Motor Trend. No they did not run a 13.08. That's a corrected time. Do you know what that means? You guys make it seem like it's rocket science or something.

im not even going to try arguing here anymore, its like a couple import fans, and the whole muscle car forum, what the hell is the point?
i dont care on how a car looks or sounds, it all matters on speed handling, and lots of power isn't always a good thing, to me american cars are unreliable they suck when i was younger, every american car my parents had owned had broken down more than once a year, now all they drive is japanese toyotas and hondas and other cars like that, and my mom has only had to get it into the shop once, and that was when a dear jumped in the way

define nothing? lol talking trash no im not i never once said that american muscle is junk or pieces of crap im merely saying that this car is quicker or handles better. i own american.
Well all you have really said is about power to weight and better handling. I think I covered the handling part well by stating the driveline technology in muscle cars is at least 30 years old. So you can't really say they still have crap handling when you take that into mind, unless you are stupid.
Power to weight?

1999 Nissan Skyline GTR
205.8 kw / 276.0 bhp @ 6800 rpm
Torque 293.0 nm / 216.1 ft lbs @ 4400 rpm
1666 kg / 3673 lbs

1970 Plymouth Hemi `Cuda
316.9 kw / 425.0 bhp @ 5000 rpm
664.35 nm / 490.0 ft lbs @ 4000 rpm
1642 kg / 3620 lbs
I don't think you need a calculator, and remember that nearly all of the factory engine statistics for muscle cars were false, very false.

In any way there is no good reason to compare new cars to old cars anyway, they are decades apart in technology and statistics. If you would prefer a 270hp car compared to a 500hp car then that is great. There is still no need to state the obvious, that a new car, in a completely different category, is faster in some stakes then a car that is 30 years old and built on the technology that was available at the time.

If anything I think anyone who likes any car, should love all older cars, just like young people should respect the elderly.

Jesus, why is it all you keyboard cowboy import kids who know nothing about cars always make me end up taking the side of the muscle car guy?



I truly wish you weren't, you're making all of us import drivers look bad. If you're about cars that accelerate fast, corner hard, perform well in general, you're a car enthusiast, cuz there are cars that match that made everywhere. If all you like is japanese imports, you're just as close minded and ignorant as the guys who only like Mustangs or the guys who only like trucks.

All American "Phsyo"... you make one more inflammatory post like that, ANYWHERE, that I see, and you'll be banned again. You don't have to act like an immature asshole to express your opinion. And about your post...

1. I've already told you many times that Motor Trend did not run a 13.0 in that EVO! You are seriously thick headed to still not understand that's a corrected time. Cut the magazine racing already!

2. Low 11's with $7000 in an EVO? :lol: The Norris Designs EVO has over $110,000 invested, and with over 600 hp to the wheels it runs 10.8.

Go ahead and bann me again see if I care you pathetic piece of humanity! We both know why you banned me the first time!! You got your feelings hurt when I corrected you about camber thrust, go ahead and pull up my posts from six months ago, and tell everyone that that is why you banned me, whatever you got your pride hurt and you did not like it so you wanted to get rid of me, one day I correct you the next I am banned coincidence I think not!! You don't deserve to be a mod you don't deserve to be a member you go away!

Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine. Somthing like that. Quit BSing and bann me already I know you want to! Block my IP too while you are at it! I can change my IP faster than you can change your socks! Go ahead try! You wanted a fight and I will give it to you! Better yet come down here and we'll settle this with a real fight. Come to JD I am very easy to find just ask about the short guy with messed up scars all over his fists. I'll be in X building 8:00am till noon Tuesday and Thursday, just let me know when you are coming so I can invite my club to watch me smash you.

You're an idiot