SS hoods non functional/ Ws6 hood provides real cold air pressure

The SS is a bad Ass looking car but the hood is only window dressing.. look at it.. the air pick up is from LAMINAR airflow.. it goes through a circutous path then finally after being heated up agian.. it enters the Air filter... window dresssing

now i'm gonacheat a bit because GM engineers were worried about Hydrolock rain baffles were put in the WS6 hood.. air still flows .. but remove the rain baffle and use an oil impregnated filter.. and you have Air from the HIGH PRESSURE CROSSS SECTION.. going striaght in..and into the air filter.. still cold from the outside and at a velocity..

to compare this

the Vette has a Vairam.it uses 2 air pick ups in the"High pressure cross section" and routes them to a sealed filter.. and it works as at speed as low as 50 or less.... Variram Guarantee's their coustomers a drop of .35-4 in the 1/4 and a MPH gain of 3-4 mph.. OR YOUR MONEY BACK ( obviosly this ram effect works)

i printed out their info..it was 10 pages long..

damn!

.. they explained why it works.. because at WOT youre in a - atmospheric psi so even if you bring it up to say atmosphere which is 14.696.. your likely to gain on a 99 C5 they got 36-40 hp

Using this very principal..many Ws6 owners have gone further ..(like myself) and spent the 5 bucks for wether stripping and when the hood is shut the exsit from the ram air is sealed to the entrance of the airbox



this and along with an augmented suspension by Pontiac in 99.. John Heinrikcy(sp) was commisioned to improve handling and ride..and he did.. .the WS6/TA is a better..or shall we say easier to launch
If both the SS and Ws6 started out with similar hp +/- 5 rw.. the Ws6 will consistantly take the ss by a .2 margin..

check out the mags that tested both cars same day same driver.. funny how .2..-..25 comes up

Hell when Popular Mechanics did this test in 99 the SS came up with a grilling 13.5 but the Ws6 was a 13.15

Oh Black Camaro SS .. i have proof on all of this too..

so believe what you want you get what you pay for the aren't identical twins.. everyone knows that

Oh and for the hard of hearing in 01-02 special parts from the LS6 were put on all LS1..Intake mani,exhaust mani,6.0 truck cam, revised programming

and surprise

in 01 and 02.. with an overflow of LS6 BLOCKS.. you had a 1 in 5 chance of getting one as they were allocated to F body use


Just thought you guys wanted to know

especially the fact that you may have a LS6 Block.. Block not engine.. but head and cam willmake a nice difference especially if you Camaro has the BLOCK

You calling me out? Childish. My daddy is better than your daddy.

You need to get off of this LS6 block thing. Somebody told you wrong, and you bought into it hook, line and sinker. The only thing the 01 and 02 LS1's share with a Corvette Z06 LS6 motor is the LS6 intake manifold. Granted I have heard rumors of a few cars coming out with an LS6 block, but like I said before, if it was as high as 1 in 5, it would be considered an option on the car, and it certainly was not. Stop posting of that which you know nothing about.

Let's starts seeing some proof buddy, cause it's obvious I hurt your feelings.

He's right. I bought a Camaro magazine the other day that said the same thing. The company that built the LS-6 Block built so many of them, that GM had a surplus. And you can't make money on an engine block that sits in the shop. Now, the only real difference between an LS-6 block and an LS-1 block (besides stronger metal) is larger breather holes between the cyllinder banks in the crank case.

Now MY concern is this. When you are going to state a case, and try to say how much better something is, do so using proper spelling and grammar. It helps so much, and makes you seem that much more intelligent.

Thanks

well, i dont mean to throw my hat into the ring on this one, seeing as i dont really know any numbers, and this is the first i have heard about the LS6 motors in f-bodys, but my concern is about the "heated air" in the SS camaros ram air system? honestly, unless you have measured the intake air temerature, and can back that up, i dont really see how the air in that system would be heated to any signifigant ammount. its not in there long enough, and its really not close to any source of major heat. the air from the radiator is blown back towards the engine, and over the exhaust manifolds, and out the back of the hood. not forward to where the airbox is. i will agree that the WS6 system, with the air scoops closer to the front is probly a better sysem, but i dont think that the air from the SS system, even though it has a less optimal path to follow, suffers any excessive heating because of it. oh and i cant spell to save my life, hope it dosnt offend anyone ;) also, i would argue that they are still the same car, even if you have different intake tracks that might, and i stress MIGHT make a slight performane difference, that .2 seconds is hardly a argument to state that the cars are two different beasts. they are the same car, in every way. case closed.

If this were the case, and that actually 1 out of every 5 V8's in 01 and 02 F-bodies were true LS6 blocks, then why didn't people take their cars back and say I want the more powerful power plant? There's no way that they could market something like this without there being an option, because the backlash from the buying public would be so great. I will not believe this until I see definitive evidence to convince me otherwise.

Being a former member of SLP's board, and having the knowledge base about these cars from that board, and this never having come up other than the fact that a few of them may have slipped into F-bodies (the only way you can tell being checking the number on the block), I find these statements almost impossible.

http://www.geocities.com/cacio/z282002production.html
http://www.geocities.com/cacio/z282001production.html

From these numbers, it shows that in 2002 there were 24,805 F-bodies with LS1's, and in 2001 there were 12,652 . This equals 37457 units that were Z28's, SS's, TA's, WS6's, and Firehawks. Now, one out of five is 20% of the total number of V8's sent out from the St. Therese plant in Quebec. 20% of 37457 is 7491.4, or almost 7500 cars. 7500 cars!!! There is no way that the public would not know about a statistic like that this far after the fact. No way. I'll give you the fact that there are some LS6 blocks in Camaros, maybe even a couple of hundred, that kind of an overflow, but there is no damn way that there are seven and a half thousand F-bodies out there with LS6 blocks. No way.

Notice I've never debated the fact that there are LS6 blocks out there from the factory in F-bodies. I know of several former members of SLP's board that proved that they had LS6 blocks in their cars, through pictures and documentation when that board was stil running. I've been debating the numbers put forth, i.e. the 1 in 5, this whole time...

Actually the number from Gm are 15% to 20 % in 01 and 20%-25% in 02

So for you blackysince your so into being exact.. the average between 15 the low and 25 the high is 20%..thats 1 in 5.. Sorry ..play agian when you know something


why would their be a backlash

hmm?

i guess when i change my origianal plugs and they arent Ac delco but NGK's.. i should make a public outcry..

the Block in of itself does not supply enough hp to effect their tolerance -/+ factor

But the other parts

you are way off

LS6 intake Manifold
LS6 exhaust manifold
6.0liter truck cam
Revised programming

just in case you doubt..

recall in 01 how long it took to get an aftermarket chip???
I wonder why.. , new cam, new intake , new exhaust manifold..different tables in the PCU

The answer was always right their.. you just need to be spoon fed, hey i didn't know or believe at first either..


I see no one doubts the suspension change.. well i guess when the 99 SS slaloms at 60 mph and the convertable Ws6 doeit in 63.4 that kinda tells you something doesn't it

Just waiting for a fax blacky.. i could give a shit about you

other know

go on Ls1.com and be laughe off by their technical people..ask about any of the aformentioned info ad they'll kick you of..asking you were have you been.. SLP man
the heat occurs as the air runs along the hood( friction, then right over the block the circutuos path occurs..yes its hotter not as hot as engine bay air.. but not ambient like the Ws6.. Nobody studies (convection.). where heat is picked up by air rather quickly

the twins are not exactly the same


(IE) the Ls6 block is only of significant benifit if you build high hp.. it can more readily handle it than the Ls1 block

to Blacky

show me any head to head test ,same day same driver were the SS beats the Ws6.. even in braking.. the pontiac performs better.. though their have been some non same day testing..

Hey any of you read or write in Italian/Latin/ or French.. well i do

and i'm sure my spelling.. was good enough for you all to get the point.. you got what you paid for..

No Blacky my daddy would kill your daddy he was a light heavyweight european martial arts champ then went to brazil to train with the Gracies


So Blacky hows it feel not to know, be left out of the loop

those parts are a Fact in 01-02.. a fact sonny.. like i said try the leader in LS1 info LS1.com

and you know who is right.. but i suspect your ego won't allow you to like it. Nor won't allow you to give me your Fax #..

Sorry to tell you ,you're not always right.. and if your math is correct then yes.. not a few hundred .. try the word thousand
the advantage is if you have one.. you can build it upto a higher hp without fear.. thats the advantage.. just incase you were trying to invoke a logical reason


all this info is about a year old as well.. some older..

but he 01-02 LS6 parts.. you knew about.. you just didn't know specifics..


Gee i guess when Pontiac performance mag tested that Auto .. they NEVER expected a 13.1x but a 13.8 like you said.. because constant improvement doesn't occur..
when they knew the 03 cobra was right around the corner..

here is another one you don't know.. Lutz insisted on puttting in a whole LS6. into the Annivesary Ed SS, and Collector Ed Ws6 but was shot down by the bean counters.. yes young Slp man this is a fact.

oh yeah i want to be in one of your prefab buildings

Next i'll here the Z06 and the CTS-V are twins..lol

well, again, im not puttin my hand in the ring on production numbers and LS6 stuff, but sonic, i wil say again, if you have temp figures id be interested, but im an aeronautical engineering major, and do not see how there is a conciderable ammount of friction in the air ducting, and not enough convection to significantly heat the air in the ss trac, it is however more restrictive due to the many turns in the path of the air. however for the maybe 1-2 degree increase in air temp, it would not make a major diff in performance. perhaps in rush hour traffic when the car is sitting still, over hot asphault, there might be a case for convection, but in rush hour traffic, im pretty sure the two cars would be going the same speed, slow. at the track, where performance is what we are talking about, the fast moving air going over the hood, under the hood, and into the air track, would not be heated through convection. at least not to any signifigant degree as i said before. and also, i have worked on camaros and firebirds, and have seen them as being pretty damn similar, if you can bring me part numbers for the suspention parts, lets say, shocks and springs maybe, that are different between the two cars, ill agree with you, but the cars are the same. both F-bodys, different on the outside, but teh same inside. oh and the vette and CTS, not the same, but damn close. almost the same car, diff drivetrain.

aint i a stinka ;)

for the record, before everyone jumps up my butt, i know the vette and CTS are different, i just had to say they were the same to be a dick :-P

*89 Iroc.. almost an engineer.. thank God..

ok we've determined that laminar flow will pick up heat,, then we also agree that when the airflow hits that circutous path.. it slows down.. alowing for friction and convection to do its thing.. what about volume.. ah.. much much less..
and now one that you'll understand.. how about all this negative becoming exponential on the ss.. along with its positive.. and the Ws6 + becoming exponential

Know a race is usually to 110.. andsince is a logrythmic exponent.. i'd say.. the Ws6 remeber weighing 100lbs more ..has a clear advantage with the intake track alone..

common sens .. you act like a student.. i'll place a temp gauge at my maf and i already now ts gong to be ambient.. though you know the SS hood it won't be.. and it only gets worse.. while the Ws6 gets better..

recently the test ive read..is that the SS and ws6a are dead eve till abot 55mph then slowly the Ws6 starts to pull.. funny how it coincides with the Variram system for the Vette.. they start packing the manifold to return VE at speeds of 48- 52.. why not look up Variram and see how it works then get back to me.

Blacky can't admit when heis wrong.. LS6 blocks, LS6 parts the guys has been out of the loop.. like i said he thinks Slp is god.. sorry.. NOT.. and you budies haven'yt been giving you the skinny on all the recent disclosers on the 01-02

like i've said..pc a safe Fax # i'll be professsional..and i'll be happy to send you some info..

then you'll know your wrong..

and not about miscalcuting a undoable numbers breakdwn.. or missed your car year.. but real info..

you just a wimp.. to ashamed to admit.. you know squat..

rmember.. yor Bilstien is to help on the RR and AC.. man thats the biggest waste of money for options.. bushings, rear sway hocks .. i'd keep my spring..it they were stock.. and wip you on a road course.. as for launching your 'Bilstien' sucks

remeber the SaleenS351 with 495 Hp..it had a RR suspension. it ran an amazing 12.7

These wwere Steve Saleens numbers
confirmed by MM &FF

so suspension is everything or at least springs in your case

*89 Iroc.. almost an engineer.. thank God..

ok we've determined that laminar flow will pick up heat,, then we also agree that when the airflow hits that circutous path.. it slows down.. alowing for friction and convection to do its thing.. what about volume.. ah.. much much less..
and now one that you'll understand.. how about all this negative becoming exponential on the ss.. along with its positive.. and the Ws6 + becoming exponential

Know a race is usually to 110.. andsince is a logrythmic exponent.. i'd say.. the Ws6 remeber weighing 100lbs more ..has a clear advantage with the intake track alone..

common sens .. you act like a student.. i'll place a temp gauge at my maf and i already now ts gong to be ambient.. though you know the SS hood it won't be.. and it only gets worse.. while the Ws6 gets better..

recently the test ive read..is that the SS and ws6a are dead eve till abot 55mph then slowly the Ws6 starts to pull.. funny how it coincides with the Variram system for the Vette.. they start packing the manifold to return VE at speeds of 48- 52.. why not look up Variram and see how it works then get back to me.

Blacky can't admit when heis wrong.. LS6 blocks, LS6 parts the guys has been out of the loop.. like i said he thinks Slp is god.. sorry.. NOT.. and you budies haven'yt been giving you the skinny on all the recent disclosers on the 01-02

like i've said..pc a safe Fax # i'll be professsional..and i'll be happy to send you some info..

then you'll know your wrong..

and not about miscalcuting a undoable numbers breakdwn.. or missed your car year.. but real info..

you just a wimp.. to ashamed to admit.. you know squat..

rmember.. yor Bilstien is to help on the RR and AC.. man thats the biggest waste of money for options.. bushings, rear sway hocks .. i'd keep my spring..it they were stock.. and wip you on a road course.. as for launching your 'Bilstien' sucks

remeber the SaleenS351 with 495 Hp..it had a RR suspension. it ran an amazing 12.7

These wwere Steve Saleens numbers
confirmed by MM &FF

so suspension is everything or at least springs in your case


dude chill out so what if blkcamaroSS is wrong or right. your acting like an idoit...it sound to me like you have a bad case of small man's syndrome,need to prove everyone wrong just because it makes you feel better. I agree with 89IROC&RS I don't see how 1-2 degree of temp. difference can make a diffrence.

Tick . . . Tick . . . Tick . . . . It's the SONIC1050fps ticking time bomb.

OK SONIC, you might be right about the LS6 block in F bodies. Along with many others, I read the same thing in a national magazine.

I don't know whether you are right or not about the science behind the airflow -- I'm certainly no expert in that regard.

Here's the thing though. 89IROC&RS is an engineering student, and for that, I think he gets some credibility. You didn't seem too impressed, however. Well, let's see what we know about you:

We know you can't spell and you have an abnormally agressive disposition. We also know that -- on at least one other occasion -- you have proven yourself to be completely full of crap ("2005 Camaro Thread - Post No. 4 where you identify some design student's final exam project as an SS - "the sister car to the Judge". Huh?).

Despite your apparent troubles with the English language, you claim to be fluent in Italian, French and even Latin! Wow!

You're Dad was "a light heavyweight european martial arts champ" who later went on to Brazil to "train with the Gracies".

You are apparently a very wealthy person since you own: a 2003 Twin-Turbo Z06 Corvette; a new Cadillac XLR; a 1995 ZR1 Corvette and several others in addition to your WS6. Interestingly, you have pretty much limited your posts to threads about F bodies. I would have figured that someone with a Twin-Turbo Z06 and an XLR might want to join a couple of threads about those cars.

Then, your great wealth notwithstanding, the only way you can send out proof of your scientific claims is by fax. What? No scanner? Just take whatever pages you wanted to fax, scan them and post a link to them so everyone can see your data.

You know, if I had your cars (and the kind of money it must have taken to get those cars) I'd pretty much be Mr. Happy-Go-Lucky all the damn time. So, you see, something just doesn't seem to add up here. What gives?

Just say it with me fellas...I just got Trolled..LOL

Some ppl just talk all kinds of shit...I call them Keyboard Warriors.... Big and tough and talk all the crap in the world while on the net... but in real life the school bully takes his lunch money.

haha.. you were just 0WN3D!

ok everyone at this point, im calling my argument a draw, and leaving all the other guys to argue about the LS6 and al that crap. all i know is that aside from the buzz words that sonic seems to know, about laminar flow and whatnot, it just dosnt add up to me. does that mean im right and sonic is wrong, hardly, i could be wrong, but from what i know, and what i have studied, it dosnt sound right to me, so i called him on it. he even called in one of his buds, who i wont call out on here, who argued the same points, with surprisingly the same info, and then told me that helicopters shouldnt fly...... still dont know where that one came from. but anyway. what it all boiled down to is that sonic dosnt have the numbers to back up what he is essentially pulling out of his ass. but i dont have the numbers to shut him down. so there it sits. and thats all there really is to it as far as im concerend. im gonna spend my time helping people who need it, rather than bashing skulls with this guy.

oh and sonic, one last point, (yeah yeah i said i was gone, so sue me) you talk about me acting like a student? then tell me this, you talk about laminar flow picking up heat, and then talk about circular flow of air picking up heat, according to you, just about any action the air takes in a camaro leads to temperature rise. also, we never determined that all that flow gains temp. also, as i explained to your friend. the intake track on the hood of the car is painted, which acts as an insulator. the same reason you never EVER paint your radiator. even if it makes it pretty :) its not the best insulator, but an insulator none the less. also, the air trying to get into that air duct, works down and around to the air filter, where it impacts the restriction, aka the air filter. so the air moving in at a set speed, suddenly slows at the filter, and the air behind it continues in and builds up behind it, creating, you guessed it people, positive pressure :) now i have already admitted that the lower scoop, and direct line to the air filter on the firebird is better. and that there is probly a bit of heat exchange, aka convection, on the air in the track, but you have to realize that while there is warm air in the bottom of the hood, cold air is constantly moving over the outside and inside, more cold air than warm, you seem to ignore this small fact in your argument.

*quote* Know a race is usually to 110.. andsince is a logrythmic exponent.. i'd say.. the Ws6 remeber weighing 100lbs more ..has a clear advantage with the intake track alone.. *quote*

huh?

*quote* common sens .. you act like a student.. i'll place a temp gauge at my maf and i already now ts gong to be ambient.. though you know the SS hood it won't be.. and it only gets worse.. while the Ws6 gets better.. *quote*

so now, not only the firebird has better VE than the camaro, it can actually change the ambient air temp as well??? these are truely magical machines!!!

oh and nice statement that i am acting like a student, well, thats because i am dipshit. but i hope that wasnt a statement that you may have schooled me or something. because everything you have put out, and stated, is pulled out of your butt as far as everyone here can tell. you have posted no proof, no readings, and everything you say is an assumption. so therefore, you are going to be called on it. wellcome to reality. have a nice day :)

Sorry if my love and passion belong to the F body

No i won't scan i'll fax.. its personal.. and its my business.. so No one has gotton owned..

i also have proof about the SS a signed letter from Vice pesident of GM.. the one you see in the mags recently.. a concept that they continually update for 3 years. the SS will be produced.. too bad for you
So you are wrong and again i have that info.. i don't open my mouth without being 100 % sure... i don't speculate


Hell yeah i'm mad..cause i have to put in my 20 when i don't need too

smallman

would you like a picture..
you might be a little surprised


And its not 1-2 degree..your dreaming if you think so.... nice to know you've been checking.. also 89 is a student.. has he been in the feild.... He asked the correct question .. he didn't followit through to conclusion.. you don't stop a formula in the middle because thats were you like it.. it has to go to fruition

Sorry its fax or go rot. yeah i have scanners..but i refuse to do things your way.. i purposefully make it difficult.. to show just how bad you want me to prove my stuff..well if you need it.. a Fax # will only do... it also has to do with security

i own no Cadillac Xlr.

What to say about the LPE TT z06..it plain demolishes everythingon the road,exotic to super muscle cars.. never liked the Vette crowd much.. but had to sieze the opportunity.. an Anniversary Z06..oh yes.. Their is nothin to say.. its a turnkey

beleive what you want.. You pysdo Freudian assesment.. All wrong..

i have data on the intake stuff as well

under load you manifold pressure continues to drop in 3rd and 4th it gets worse.. Your hoods do no provide the necessary oxygyn density to repack the molecules to return VE to its norm

its that simple

anytime you want actual figure and number.. send a fax.. for security reason..i cannot scan nor put up any site..containing any technical info..

i guess you haven't realized the restricton placed on people in my position By Homeland security

Yeah well 89 iroc you have mail.. and the rest of youall

try this for an assesment.. type A personality, Did the Judo thing for pops for 16 years( aggressive)
never pulled any numbers from my ass.. 1-2 degrees.. was 89 iroc's guess.

Have definitive info on the SS its not a concept.. you don't work and refine a concept for 3 years..lol you guys are so illogical.. and have detailed document on that going to producton
Kinda makes senes though no lose the t/a and Z28 add the Gto and the SS.. ..( you have no lateral thinking)

And becaus of my Job.. a Fax is the best i can do.. Homeland security.. watches military or military contractors.. very thoroughly.

I'd have to fax .. even that would be subject to scrutiny..

again i don't care.. i only dislike Blacky.. who can't accet.. LS6 par in 01-02 thats parts plural
a 1in 5 chance of LS6 block n every 01-02 F body

HOOD DESIGN IS SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER ON A WS6.

His Bilstien suspension suck for off theline racing.. these are all known quantities



Actually i thin 89 Iroc..asks smsrt questions.. and bein a STUDENT i prefer to talk with him due to the freshness of memory..

he just misses a few pointas that we could discuss

..

yeah i'm a troll.. nice try


perhaps i'll start writing about all of you in Italian..and see how you feel.. o even better latin.. that would shake you up a dead language who would help you

Your Star Trek
Universal translator..lol

Remeber Boys Type A,, and you forgot Mensa memeber.

oh and allow me to offer one excusei write with an early version of the IR board.. at a distance of 15 feet from my Crt.. without spellcheck.. it tends to miss keystroke.. just like your remote from your telivision.. so you double tap it.. no spaces com up double letters dropped letter.

ARE WE CLEAR HERE.. AS SAID NOT A LATERAL THINKER AMOUNG YOU. with the exception of 89 Iroc

ok everyone, sonic has asked me to do him a favor, and at this point i see no need not to. but before i do, let me afirm that i have the upmost respect for blacky, he is very knowledgeable, and has corrected, and helped me out several times. and as many of the people on this board can support. he rarely steers people wrong. so dont take this as a support of one member over another. however i have been talking to sonic one on one through PMs and once you drop swords and admit that you dont agree, and start discussing things, hes really not a bad guy and i personally do not lable him a liar. weather or not he is right, i dont know enough on the subject to say. but i do believe that like everyone else on this post he truley believes that he is right, and will push it untill proved wrong. so its a bit unfair to lable him any different than the rest of us. i know im a dick when im backed into a corner, untill the facts are undisputable, its a helluva lot of fun being right, and it sucks to be wrong. so do me a favor, and keep that in mind before putting up any posts that are member bashing rather than relivent to the subject matter. Thanx. :)

yeah what iroc said!!!!!!

about me being a dick right?? ;)

umm...yeah. But hey, I made a believer out of you. Don't you wish every one had something to back up there claims? Anyway, this was a dumb argument if you ask me. I think the only true difference in the two are the looks. Like my uncle said, pontiac does it with style, chevy just does it.

I will never believe that 1 out of 5 F-bodies has an LS6 in it, especially when only proven by fax. I myself, being a student, do not have a fax machine, maybe when I get a job after graduation I'll have one. Sonic will have to give me his "proof" then. I don't foresee me caring then though...

no one is asking you to suddenly make a turn around blacky, certainly not me. just at this point, call a truice, if for whatever reason, you cant proove him wrong, and he cant proove you wrong, just let it go. or at least take a min to take a breath and calm down. i mean, i have to cover my sweet virgin ears when i come in this forum ;) lets all debate freely, and openly, but with some dignity. savy? :)

If you saw his PM's to me, you'd realize there is no dignity to be had. I will not show him an ounce of respect. Respect is earned, not inherant.

He won't be around here long anyway.

So Iroc, did you happen to watch pirats of the carrabien recently? savy?

some might say there is dignity to be had in being the bigger man, but im not going to lecture you blacky, i was just puttin out my two cents on the matter.

lmao, SPOT ON 92rs !!!! just watched it tonight :) bad ass movie, i think its my new favorite movie.

I've watched it like four times since thursday.

sweet, ill be tearin into the disk 2 stuff tomorrow after work. apparently theres like ten hours of extra stuff. gotta say, best line.

"shell be absolutely impossible to live with after this."

SAVY!!!!! i think thats gonna be my new word :)

FYI, the blacky thing better stop, there's no reason to continue that...

BlkCamaroSS

Whoa I think I may have started it on another thread bro....
No offense meant just easier the type than BlkCamaroSS..
Just give us another fast nickname bro =)

Nope, it wasn't you, it's been a Sonic/IROC thing for about 24 hours now. Sonic started it, IROC has adopted it.

I'm not black, but how would they know that? What if I was? Wouldn't I take offense to that? Just not cool IMO. If my request came across as bitchy, it's probably just that, cause I'm tired of Sonic and his bs...

why do people have to try to be a internet bad ass? What in idoit. Oh well, people need to feel good somehow.





P.S. Wish daddy would have bought me a LPE Z06 :crying:

geeze blkcamaroSS, i didnt even notice that sonic had done it, it really is a shorter nickname, but i wont do it anymore if youre gonna cry about it. i tried to be political and calm the situation down, but i have to say blkcamaroSS, your throwing a bit of a tantrum, and im losing respect for you because of it. just thought id say so.

well, again, im not puttin my hand in the ring on production numbers and LS6 stuff, but sonic, i wil say again, if you have temp figures id be interested, but im an aeronautical engineering major, and do not see how there is a conciderable ammount of friction in the air ducting, and not enough convection to significantly heat the air in the ss trac, it is however more restrictive due to the many turns in the path of the air. however for the maybe 1-2 degree increase in air temp, it would not make a major diff in performance. perhaps in rush hour traffic when the car is sitting still, over hot asphault, there might be a case for convection, but in rush hour traffic, im pretty sure the two cars would be going the same speed, slow. at the track, where performance is what we are talking about, the fast moving air going over the hood, under the hood, and into the air track, would not be heated through convection. at least not to any signifigant degree as i said before. and also, i have worked on camaros and firebirds, and have seen them as being pretty damn similar, if you can bring me part numbers for the suspention parts, lets say, shocks and springs maybe, that are different between the two cars, ill agree with you, but the cars are the same. both F-bodys, different on the outside, but teh same inside. oh and the vette and CTS, not the same, but damn close. almost the same car, diff drivetrain.
------------------------------------------------------------------ that guy must be referrring to the air friction caused by trying to LEAVE THE FRIGGIN ATMOSPHERE WITH YOUR SS. thats why the space shuttle blew into a million bits( god rest their souls )--- it had an ss hood on the front of it!!!!!!

im sorry .... i just couldnt help myself. it was getting too serious in here and i just had to do something.

geeze blkcamaroSS, i didnt even notice that sonic had done it, it really is a shorter nickname, but i wont do it anymore if youre gonna cry about it. i tried to be political and calm the situation down, but i have to say blkcamaroSS, your throwing a bit of a tantrum, and im losing respect for you because of it. just thought id say so.

I repeat again, I'm tired of dealing with Sonic, in the Camaro/Firebird forums, and through PM's. I could care less if you have lost some respect for me or not. I won't lose sleep over it. You don't stay on this forum without stepping on toes from time to time. The fact that you're buying into LS6 controversy is where I'm losing respect for you. I've posted info on my side of it, yet he can't do the same. I've even looked for the article he's suggested on the internet, and can't find it. I've told him I'm done with it until he can show me the link, or send it via email (the government is not gonna care about a paper describing engine use in a car that's not even produced anymore). :banghead:

Holy shit! You guys are making things waaaayyyy more difficult than it needs to be....first off, in general, the TA and SS stock intake systems perform nearly identically....and where the TA may pick up a minimal gain in intake air temperature (in a general flawless sense), the hood itself creates more aerodynamic drag that creates a backward force, hence slowing the car down. I'm not taking sides here, and I know I'm new to this board, but yes, I do have a degree in engineering, and I've studdied it all. I accomplished a lot in racing school, and stock figures in a single TA versus a single SS doesn't prove shit. From factory differences in cars, whether it be a ridge a little larger in the port in the head of a single car from the forging process, vs, a slight plastic thickness difference in intake tubing during a cooling process, all cars have flaws that cause differences in performance. Yes, the TA has proven to be slightly faster over all, but there are many things that come into play (weight distribution changing the stance of the chasis being a major factor). Factory freaks do exist, I've driven many of them in the last three years of working tech in a GM garage (Sheridan Motor Inc.). Sonic, you wanna get technical? Tell me what a 1/32 inch tall plastic ridge inside of a straight (simple) intake hose with a width of 1/32 of an inch will do to air flow, verses the identical car in identical condition where that ridge were removed....as a matter of fact, lets make it 1 and 3/32 inches long. Oh, and how about a 4 inch inner diameter pipe, moving ahhhh......650 cf/m....in both cars at a constant rate. Prove to me your math and physics background, then go into the explanation needed to prove your initial point of the TA vs the SS.....oh, and everyone will have quit reading the horse shit because it makes no FUCKING difference....and why??? Because maybe the muffler of the TA has a small factory flaw...a dimple say....in the outlet weld that creates back pressure that resists the ability of the car to pull any advantage of air from the intake because of air flow conflicts at that dimple.....man, why did I even read this entire post? Once you figure out this simple dynamics problem, move on to the mandrel style 45 degree angled elbow pipe. Will it increase air resistance inside of an elbow VS a straight tube? You bet! These people want numbers, diagrams, etc. Like a ghost or the vette....I'll believe it when I see it. Oh, and to set the record straight with all of you that seem to know what you are talking about, I'm no internet bad ass, I hope yall don't think I'm talking out my ass....I'd fax you my certificates and my degree, but it would be a lot easier to scan and post them here. Have a nice day...I hope this board isn't always like this. I'm not starting flames with anyone in particular, I'm just trying to make sense of these theories that aren't supported by a drastically in depth testing procedure...though I don't know why, even if the problem had an obvious answer, what difference would it make....your TA pulls .36 cf/m at 4 degrees F less than somebodies SS.....OOOOHHHHHH!

Pirates of the Carribean by the way....that's a good flick....rates up there with American Beauty and Pulp Fiction. I need a fucking ciggarette.

BOB,

now say it in english for us "slow" ppl.

and welcome to the board.

Sorry about that. Basically, all I am saying, is that every factory vehicle has it's performance differences. For instance, one Z28 can have a 20 hp performance difference verses an identical Z28 from the factory. When the parts are forged in the factory, the creases and port surfaces (which dramatically affect performance) have imperfect surfaces. Ridges can form where the molten alloys harden or small divets can form. Or something as simple as melting an intake hose into shape. Where the mold may not be flawless, or where the cooling plastics expand and retract as they are cooled at different temperatures, these flaws take place. Look at the inside of your intake ports for example, they are full of divets and ridges (rough to the touch)...no two ports are identical. This is the main reason for a port and polish job. In a port and polish modification, your goal isn't to make your ports extremely larger in diameter to allow a larger volume of air through, and hence allow your engine to burn more fuel and create power. Over boring your ports can lead to drastic performance loss. However, if you slightly increase it, while polishing the surfaces where air is forced, the air will move as close to straight and free of obsructions as possible. A small imperfection in the forging process, which isn't even considered by most automotive manufacturers, can cause a drastic change in air flow. These flaws also occur naturally in overlapped pipes and welding procedures. No weld is perfectly smooth. If you had a smooth straw and a rough ass straw, the smooth one would be much easier to blow through. Just like a tree in the wind, a small rough bump in an intake port can deflect air flow. The wind currents don't change direction as easily and restrict eachother if that tree were gone. Even a tiny scratch in an intake hose will show a change in air flow, it may be minimal, but it's there. Adding a ton of places where these flaws can happen, can totally change the way a car performs. Every tiny difference in rods will change performance and strength. That's why balanced rods improve performance and are a must in any type of professional racing. Rotating masses, unless balanced, will create repulsive forces VS gravity and inertia when moving. Like, look at the crank shaft. The crank shaft in a vehicle has several weighted rotating masses, if one mass has a tiny sharp metal ridge from the forge, or a burr from drilling, it won't be balanced properly....and note that NO crank shaft if perfectly balanced, but an after market balance job will prove a performance gain you can feel. Then you take into effect all of the rods connected to the crank shaft, as they rotate, they can create forces negative to the crank shaft movement from balance issues, just because GM never took the time to balance and polish all of them. It's a 30,000 dollar car, not a 200,000 dollar car. That's the major difference between your Camaro and say a Porsche. The engineering isn't as extreme to relieve the parts of these flaws to make them perform to their maximum potential. Any intake or exhaust imperfection will affect performance, whether it's one of those sharp plastic ridges that never got ground off at the factory, or whether it's small air gaps where two exhaust pipes were welded together, these imperfections change the direction of airflow when air is forced through it, causing resistance and making air push on air. All an engine is is a lage air pump, it sucks air in, compresses it with a fuel mixture, ignites the fuel, which has to have oxygen to burn, and the reaction forces the crank shaft to turn. Then the burned air is forced out through the exhaust. All those pistons are doing are pulling air in and pushing it out. Your open valves control which pipes that air travels down, and the surfaces of those pipes affect air flow just as much, if not more, than the diameters. Also, resonant frequencies play a large role, if you want me to go into my studdies of resonant frequencies, I will. Just car to car differences that are purposely over looked from the factory can make quite a performance difference. But look from GM's perspective, they want to sell someone a car...most people want a quiet car, with SOME power, good gas mileage, and dependability. Do you think they care about a minor lip or ridge on a rocker arm? Well, it does totally change the physics of how that rocker arm performs, but if they really cared, they would be selling 200,000 dollar cars, and we wouldn't be talking about modding our Camaro's and Firebirds, We'd be talking about how perfect our factory Ferrari's were. Those companies work resonant frequencies out of their engines, and create perfect resistance free engine internals and exhaust parts. Those companies paid millions of dollars for groups of engineers to put the perfect car on paper, and their expert machinists to put them in metal, glass, and a gleaming sex appeal that you see in photographs. Yes, a Camaro is a performance sports car, but the only way to make it perform better is to fix the factory flaws. If you don't understand or if you seek better explanation, email me. It really is quite simple. You want more engine performance, horsepower and torque, buy a less restrictive intake, makig this TA/SS conflict virtually pointless. You want that intake to pull it's maximum potential? Mod your exhaust to pump out as much air as the engine can pull in....you want them both to move more air, take out all the blemishes in the piping and the ports. The more air your air pump can pump faster, the more fuel it can burn faster, hence: the more power your engine can create faster, making your car faster over all. Then, look into fuel delivery. What about small flaws in the fuel lines and connections that slow/restrict fuel delivery? Yup, that can hold back an engine too. If you have plenty of air to burn a gallon of atomized gasoline, but you only have a pint of atomized gasoline, that's all you are going to burn. With all of this computer control these days, you can run into engine problems real quick. You won't find an ECM under my hood. Taking every possible imperfection possible in an engine, you will find a subsequent amount of power loss, then, look into the rotating masses in your transmission, torque converter/clutch, rear end, etc. Then, no matter how much power you have, and how freely the parts coincide and function, chasis setups, weight reduction, and suspension setups will destroy you. Suspension and chasis can be more important than power. Go talk to a dirt track driver about it, or an experienced stock car or drag car driver...it can mean seconds. The biggest problem F-bodies have with racing the import scene is weight. It takes twice as much power to move twice as much weight to the same speed in the same amount of time. How important are those impact absorbtion pads? How important are those three other empty seats? The dash? The carpet? How bad do you want to win. That's what modding a car is all about. At work I just make them work properly by factory standards....at home, I make things RUN. But like I said, I am no internet bad ass, and I am wrong somtimes...these are just some issues that I face every day, things I've studdied to hell and back, and I thought I'd share my two cents about this horribly burned out subject. I picked up on some BS. And as for that factory LS6 "accidently" sank into an Fbody....I've never heard of it, I'll be asking my foreman about it today, maybe even contacting GM....I do work for them and all. I'll let yall know. Sorry to write a bible.

what he said...:D

Well, here's what I was able to find, with someone else's help:

http://members.aol.com/joecool72/ls6.jpg

This seems to confirm what Sonic has been talking about. I can't argue with this article, though there's no indication on it where it came from, but it must be from the fall edition of Camaro Performance. This is what I needed for my proof.

I must say that the info I had been going off of had been outdated. My SLP buddies never had a chance to read something like this before the board went down about eight months ago, therefore I never had the chance to learn anything like this from them. I was just running off of outdated data. Therefore, I stand correct on this issue as it stands right now.

Yes, I talked to my shop forman today, and he said that they did use the Z06 LS6 blocks in place of around 1/4 of the 01 and 02 V8 Fbodies. It wasn't so much that they had extra engines from the LS6 program, but also a fact that the plant in Canada was short on engines. It couldn't build enough for the Camaro and Firebird demand. However, this LS6 block was fitted with the LS1 performance package, just like the LS1. It had a milder cam than the one used in the LS6 Z06, along with none of the extras that increased performance. The engine was basically an extremely strong LS1, with better chamber to chamber ventilation...which, as they said, added no power. That means that a lot of the LS1's for sale, even on the net, actually have a Z06 Corvette core. You could build a hell of a motor out of them....That would be a cheap way to get a core. That's some good info.

camarobob, i love you :)

lol, thanks.

Well Mr Bob..

it seem you doubtme.. i'm going only on the ws6 hood design.. if you'd like to perform asearch try Ls1 hood Ws6 vs ss for hp.. ad yo'll see it brings us right back to automotive forums..

the SS hood.. ONCE again has curves,via a circutous path the is routed back to the fron of the hood ad the has to be realigned with the ailid.. funny i can llok through my Nostrils and see the bottom of my pale filter??? and you think that a 34 cfm gain.. try again.. it does alot more than that.. and .. when compared.. i said that many imes the ws6/ SS were tested again the vette, the Cobra's and everytime the Ws6 manages a .2 superiorit.. sorry it not coincidence.. you want graph and such i gave you a similar system formula's and what not on a controlled day..
funny the cd of a ram air is no different
Now you seem knowledgeable.. then how is it that goin through the gears at Wot increases the - manifold Psi.. and when using a more direct ram air..as in the Ws6 it returns the car closer to its starting VE.. you are doing dyno measurements.. not real world velocity. testing.. as few have done.. the Variram.. which is closest..has ..hence i site their numbers for reference

and you reference to a hi po cold air Lt1 elbow allows for more volume.. air density stays the same..

If you want an equal S type hoodthan the Ultra Z hod from sun oast creation is what your lookng for the stock hood is definitly inferior..

and Blacky got the info from an intervening parting.. and i gave hime mag information to "try and look it up..

neeed to prove nothing.. i wouldn'tbe so bold to say it if i wasn't 100accurate..

you defending your SS is noble but feutal

that Ws6 made funtinal.. with the S can'tis worth at minimum another 20 hp

its a high pressure area, straight into the filter, witch is stright into the TB and ntake manifold.. and more than a few degrees of heat saok occurs that i gurantee.. ..no i don't have exact fgure.. but your engine is radiating 180= degree'' 9 even with a 160 stat0 and heat also i asbosrbed from sunlight.. heating the hood the SS air moves through.. and it takes time for it to go through its circutous path, then makee other bends to align itself with the airbox..this is logical

So Bob.. you seem learned.. can you find any same day sam driver test with sow the SS clipping the heavier Ws6??

no their aren't any ...and they been testing since 1998 so 4 years

and blacky was a short nickname.. but Blk camaro SS is to sensitive.. and can't admit when he iis wrong.. he post my information.. i assume that to concede.. we both know were you got it.. should i tell and embarass you more.. i think not.. i have not been wrong while discussing any Ls1 issue with you

and back to Bob

sorrry the 01-02 do have Ls6 parts .. but all of them

intake mani
exhaust mani
the Vortech 345hp truck cam 6.0
revised programming.

these are were the hp differences arise..

the +/- factor for 01-02 is significantly higher..and the Ls6 block does contribute to some hp gain
any doubters on the parts cross reference them with an Ls6 or the truck cam..

and the Cpu..asi've said before

funny how in 01 it took the program amkers some time to come out with a prgramer tat worked..

different maps, and A/f calculatory tables.

you enjoy

i've proven my point..

blacky you wanna know something about the Ls1 better ask me cause you Slp friends.obviosly are just marveling at those three initials.

Funny to here that you say i was aparently right.. again we both know were you got the info.. being the bigger man i shan't embarass you

dont you ever take credit for my info
I MAY HAVE BEEN MEAN BUT IF YOU LOOK BACK YOU STARTED IT..WITH THE " I'D COULD SMOKE YOUR (STOCK)AUTO WITH THE MONEY PUT INTO IT.. TO BAD YOU DIDN'T COUNT ON EVEN THE FACT THAT THE MODS ONLY COST 554 DOLLARS..AND THE AUTO WOULD HAVE BEAT YOU STOCK ANYWAYS

Bob welcome.. i only had on problem with someone..and that over with.. stubborn peple who take credit for for "getting the information i said'.. actually he was sent that info..

Bob perhpas if your looking for number.. a sealed ws6 hood isvery close to the Variram corvete system.. look that part up..and it will give you actual data under a controlled day

I'm playing with an idea that move the Ws6 or rather t/a fog lamps out to the side like a formula..and use the fg lamp ducts to funnel air upto a sealed airlid.... i've checked it out an its very doable.. my kit will cost 449. my cost 50 dollars at most

Hmm, never said smoke, I believe I said I could give you a run for your money, i.e. be a sport and give you a good race, regardless of a win or a loss. Then your ego came into it's own.

I never claimed it was my find, when I said someone else helped me, it was just that. You happy? HEY EVERYONE, CARRRNUTTT HELPED ME FIND THAT ARTICLE, DID YOU HEAR ME, CARRRNUTTT HELPED ME FIND THAT ARTICLE. You know why I went there? Because carrrnuttt has, in my experience, always been able to find and prove his points. Then, on the other side of the scale, you haven't. Glad he bailed your ass out, but there will be other things to argue over, I look forward to them.

So how about those pics of your cars? The ones listed sure would cost a lot of dinero...

BlkCamaroSS

HEY EVERYONE, CARRRNUTTT HELPED ME FIND THAT ARTICLE, DID YOU HEAR ME, CARRRNUTTT HELPED ME FIND THAT ARTICLE.

hey was it again that helped? I didnt quite get it the first time :p :grinno: :evillol:

Hey Sonic, how many other s/n's do you have on AF? You do know that you're only supposed to have one right?

How about these car pics, Sonic? I would like to see if a Peruvian 2003 Chevrolet ZO6 LPE 427 TT looks like it's American counterpart...

I told you SS you'll get static..and if you look at your registration form i beleive i just hit enter.. i paid no mind to the time Zone.. like i care

Some of you act like wanna be detectives.. good luck.. You want to call me out callme on he phone.. thats how sure and unscared i am

not my job to give out my location but its Florida.in the 954 pre-fix code

sorry

no documents are allowed to be posted as i said.. a picture.. though not a document.. is still considered a breech and even if i wanted to.. the computers i work on that allow civil internet use.. don't allow any documents to be posted for obvious reasons,,

sure
SS thats why i have that fall issue of Camaro Performance 2003 page 83.. cause hey they sell them all over Peru

i don't need unbeleivers i have nothing to gain to putting up false post about engines, suspensions, trannies and hoods..its you who has the problem Blacky
i left you a Pm i was quite curtious its up to you to open..


I needed no bailing out.... Since i'm pressumed innocent.. untill proven guilty.. to be bailed means i would have to be arrested.. if you ad tried i shove that mag article in your face..

Trust me you've already been wrong about 3 things.. so when do you think you gonna sneak up and surprise me on some juicy Ls1 info..?

You'll argue just for the sake of it.. it your nature to be be stubborn, arrogant.. worse than i ever was at your age..at least i waited to gain experience.

Peru thats funny.. so are the other alleged names i'm under.. yeah i did use one other ..but no post.. i wrote to you cause you wouldn't read my emails..

tactics of war my friend

you can call me direct on my cell.. find out the prefix and you'll know its Florida..

hell bud..i wanted to fax the info.. but that was to low tech.. at least you'd know it was in the US.. and if you wanna see my cars come for a visit..i've nothing to prove..

its a turnkey go the the Lpe Site and look at a Z06 with its hood closed and you can't tell jack.. see with a guy like you.. you want the Vin# registation.. you'll find any excuse.. to be definitive....Ok John "the" John of LPE..is very very sick , he is in a Coma.. Not something the company claims publicly but if you ask around i'm sure you see thats true

just like everything else

the Vette being a turnkey .. hence i talk little about it.. since 21rst Century did the work and sent it back to Florida /from Texas rather than Indiana's LPE..its closer

So you call me for the holidays.. and blacky you were so wrong.. its sad
how uninformed you are

you shouldn't give any Ls1 advice Slp maybe but not Ls1.

And no one ever needed bailing out.
you just went crying to the moderator cause i was in your face.. well i'm not anymore.. so call... oh and call block won't work nor will a pay phone.

Spelling.. yes sir typing on a IR keyboard .. the early ones at distances of 15 feet.. do help make me look unable to spell

And SS if you decide to call i expect a professional attitude any cursing, or name calling and you will get static.


Peru.. you guys are funny.. you'd think tha if that was the case that Spanish would be a language i would know.. wich i don't.. and don't want to... agian its that lateral thiking you need working on..

you get back with the mod and see if my Ip is South American..lol


you are comical still

I look whole heartedly forward at talking with you .. and you'll see just whats what!
Hows that for definitive proof

Yeah, I know of John's sickness, always watching for updates on the different boards.

For some reason, I always thought that you were posting from a home computer, not on base. That makes alot more sense why you can't post anything from them. The clouds have parted...

That means that a lot of the LS1's for sale, even on the net, actually have a Z06 Corvette core. You could build a hell of a motor out of them.

Some of you guys are talking like these LS6 blocks are magical, horsepower multiplying, indestructible castings. We're still talking about cast-aluminum here that requires steel insert sleeves when any degree of over boring is to take place. Push the envelope on either one of those blocks and they'll be splitting in the future, wait and see.

As for the debate on functional induction hoods, I never understood why GM went with the ram air "lids" on the newer F-Bodies. Air temperature aside, if the argument here is that the air has more distance to travel/loop around inside the hood of an SS Camaro vs. a WS-6 Firebird, then the best ram air design was the setup that originally debuted in the LT1 Firehawk (and used in the ram air Firebirds up until '97).

Remember that old design? So simple - put the air filter box right in front of the functional hood openings and let the air travel less than a foot into the throttle body. Why GM went with the air "lids" and chambered hoods is beyond me, as it seems so much less efficient. The original LT1 SS design, however, was just plain stupid - letting the air filter box cook on top of the intake manifold and curling that ugly rubber air tube around into the TB (should have made the air box out of metal to heat it up quicker!). But look at the performance differences between those two older designs, which I think had a far greater disparity that the hood comparison you guys are doing. What were the results? Negligible?

I have been talking to sonic one on one through PMs and once you drop swords and admit that you dont agree, and start discussing things, hes really not a bad guy.....but i have to say blkcamaroSS, your throwing a bit of a tantrum.....so do me a favor, and keep that in mind before putting up any posts that are member bashing rather than relivent to the subject matter

I realise I've altered the order of these quotes but they are not out of context, and you IROCboy are fucked. I've PM'd Sonic as well and had no trouble conversing with him like normal people do, but this guy is simply out to bash BlackSS - who has demonstrated no inappropriate or immature attitude at all in these posts. He told SonicMouth to fuck off in another thread only after about a dozen personal attacks - I probably would have told him to go fuck himself after the first few. This entire thread is to spite BlackSS.

Listen to yourself. You're telling people to be nice and not act like 7 year olds yet your buddy is the only one mocking people - the guy poked at BlackSS in like every one of his posts since your brilliant decree. And by the way, "Blacky" seems to be Sonic's put-down name for BlkCamaroSS, thats why you shouldn't use it and why people are getting "touchy" about it. It’s the same as me calling buddy SonicMouth and you IROCboy. Its small, its stupid, and its exactly the kind of thing that causes this SHIT in the first place.

I've never seen anyone with such a hard-on for someone before. Just let it go please, that’s why I left my last forum - BUT AF ROCKS!!! :ylsuper:

For the record, Sonic and I are cool now.

*Quote* I've never seen anyone with such a hard-on for someone before. Just let it go please, that’s why I left my last forum -*Quote*

quite possibley the most juvanile thing i have heard from anyone on this forum to date. just thought id say so, but in my defence, i was trying to make everyone calm down, on both sides, i had talked to sonic about it in PM's and just didnt think to PM blackSS about it. so i said it on here. BlackSS knows i respect his knowledge, and we have bashed people side by side before, i just thought this post got out of hand is all. trust me i saw that they were both bashing each other, i guess because i have talked to blackSS before, and had gotten along with him i guess i expected more from him or something, i guess i expected him to be the bigger man which i suppose wasnt fair. but thats how i saw it. and still do as evidenced by blackSS and Sonic getting along now. so i dont really see exactly how i am fucked now. but if you feel you did, your a dasiy after all. oh and the only reason i came to sonics support in my post, is because of the fact that blackSS is so well known and respected, for good reason i might add, everyone was crawling up Sonics ass and calling him a jerk and an ass, so i wrote a post to make em back off. the line about makeing posts relivent and not attacing was aimed at those people who just jumped in to bash someone, not talk about teh topic, to my knowldege, even though both BlackSS and Sonic were jabbing at each other they always did it within the context of the thread, thats cool. its unavoidable, but the other people were just tearing on sonic for the sake of doing it, and not really offering any material to the post. so i told them to stop. perhaps i worded it wrong and it sounded directed at BlackSS, it wasnt, so yet again, where i once was fucked. now im not. have a splended day.

If the hatchet has been burried then thats terrific. I was just getting sick of reading the same stuff in every thread the guys were in.

So what do you boys have to say about the relevant car related stuff in my last post?

Old school Firehawk ram air design - night and day better than the older SS system? Better than the current "air lid" setup??

:cheers:

I don't know one way or the other, but I'd take any Firehawk in a heartbeat, especially a formula one. I think that they look better, IMHO.

Sonic I really think you do know what your talking about most of the time (I can't say all the time, cause I just haven't seen all your post). Only if I could understand what you are typing at least a fraction clearer. You should seriously consider asking wherever you are able to get on the internet, to get a damn spell checker. Its really not that hard to do. I think you would make so much more sense. I'm not bashing you, but I feel like I have to decode what your saying.

And Bob, you work for GM, cool. I am a student majoring in CAD/design, and Industrial design, and some day I wish to work with cars. The closest plant that I live by is an SIA automotive plant. I'm not to interested in working their, but I wish I could work at Gm some day.. I respect you for knowing that you worked your ass off to become an engineer, I live/go to Purdue and let me tell you, most of the students I know in engineering literally study 40/hrs a week. That a bit to much for me. Just tell me, was it all worth it?

It's that way for any engineering degree. They're not gonna give you a diploma that says that you know your stuff and then you go out there and endanger people's lives (just got through with my five and a half years).

It's that way for any engineering degree.
I know, I do go to one of the best engineering schools in the US, and let me tell you, everyone I know studies like their working 2 jobs. I study enough how it is, maybe that degree will come later...

They're not gonna give you a diploma that says that you know your stuff and then you go out there and endanger people's lives (just got through with my five and a half years).
Congrats :thumbsup:, hope you land a good job.