Rice vs Muscle

Dont get me wrong i have alot of respect for rice burners the only reason why is cause they can get a four banger hunk of shit to atleast do decent speeds but lets face it they cannot compete with american muscle cars.

all the ricers have to have NOS and turbos what a bunch of bullshit and what a waste of money. i just bought a 1972 chevy nova and researched it i will have to spend 10k on the restoration and it will smoke any ricer. mostly because under the hood is a recon 496 rat motor that puts out 500 horses.

im not saying muscle cars are unbeatable with rice burners im just saying it will cost 5 times more money and in the end muscle cars look better run better and win 99% of the time compared to shitty ricers.

Enough already just shut the fuck up. No one cares about your overly-biased opinions so go bother another website. Extremist attitudes like that are not tolerated here.

The guy in my sig says everything I think about what you just said.

Wow, what an amazingly uninformed opinion. Is this based on any actual information, or just a desire to stir up yet another import vs. domestic debate? So it's unfair to run forced induction in a 4 cyl. up against a 496 c.i. V8? You realise that all forced induction and nitrous do, in effect, is make a small displacement motor breathe like a larger one right? So you can bore out an engine to get more air into the cylinders, but you can't use a turbo? In more direct defense of imports, why is it always assumed that you must spend huge sums of money to make them fast? Not every import enthusiast spends $5K to buy a bolt on turbo kit. Some actually build their own engines, and fabricate their own forced induction systems. Import tuners are just as capable of building a fast car on a budget as domestic tuners, they just go about it in a different way. Just learn to accept the fact that there is no import vs. domestic debate. We all enjoy cars, that's all there is to it. Stop trying to pick a fight.

Dont get me wrong i have alot of respect for rice burners the only reason why is cause they can get a four banger hunk of shit to atleast do decent speeds but lets face it they cannot compete with american muscle cars.

all the ricers have to have NOS and turbos what a bunch of bullshit and what a waste of money. i just bought a 1972 chevy nova and researched it i will have to spend 10k on the restoration and it will smoke any ricer. mostly because under the hood is a recon 496 rat motor that puts out 500 horses.

im not saying muscle cars are unbeatable with rice burners im just saying it will cost 5 times more money and in the end muscle cars look better run better and win 99% of the time compared to shitty ricers.


I cant decide either to call you a troll or ogre. But be warned, the flaming will start. So be prepared to back up your statements with facts. "muscle cars look better and winn 99% of the time"?. Well I think my car looks better than a 1972 chevy nova, and with 10k in mods anyone could make any car fly imports or domestic.

I think thats excatly what your trying to do start a fight..............your probaly just one of those cocky slow bitches that never wanna race because they always have an excuse whine whine. And you think your domestics are soo fast pfft. Listen buddy you can take a domestic or a Import and make it fast it doesn't matter the car it just matters what kinda money you got. You can take any import stock and but a bunch of money in it and it'll beat ya domestics all day any day. You can do the same with a domestic. pfft stfu you have absolutley no clue what you're talking about ovbiously............damn boy you need a car role model. :screwy: :loser:

Oh yea btw.............99% of the time is not at all acurate or if you think so bring ya shit and we'll race and then i'll make those so called "satistics" go up. And by saying that domestics look better any are better you just make yourself look even stupider. Because its your own opinion dumbass. Why the fuck are you trying to change our point of view anyways your not gona. If we cared what you thought about domestics and Imports we would probaly ask you duhh duhh but honestly i don't think anyone cares seeing at the respondes you got lol you're just trying to start shit and your wrong already so back da fuck off bitch. :shakehead :disappoin

i just bought a 1972 chevy nova and researched it i will have to spend 10k on the restoration and it will smoke any ricer.

Hey man, I don't really care what you plan to put in your car or how fast you think your car will be a year from now. What you got now, is what you got. And my naturally aspirated 4 cylinder with less than a grand in engine mods will tear you a new one, from a standstill, from a roll, on the road, through the dirt, around a racetrack / solid line / dotted line / dashed line / night / day / dusk / dawn / winter / summer / etc. Point being, you're talking a lot of crap for someone with a slow car.

And last but not least:
http://www.arimport.com/pics/domesticthug.JPG

i'm not tryna make things worse but when he says rice does that mean civics and what not or does that mean any asian car.
cause if so he's a damn idiot :disappoin

So, Honda and Toyota needed nitrous and turbos to dominate this year's IRL Championship (which is all V8, I might add)? And how about the Ferrari 575GT Maranello which has stomped on the Corvette this year in ALMS competition. Nitrous and turbos again?

Should I bring up the Infiniti Q45's V8 or have I proven my point easily enough.

I agree with Devil. Shut up. You have nothing of value to say, no information to add, and your bias is so blatant it's repulsive.

Oh, and by the way, sure you didn't mean 396? There never was a factory 496, from anyone. Closest there is to that displacement is the Cadillac 472 used in Coupe DeVilles and Eldorados during the latter half of the 60's and early 70's.

With an attitude like that, you can bet he means anything other than a Mustang, Camaro, or old muscle car.

Regardless of what you drive you should respect other people's cars imports or domestics. I have two american cars but that doesn't mean I have to hate all imports, and I respect any import that can walk me. Maybe you just need to open your mind to other things.

ok,

im not saying all you ricers are bad and for the dumbass who says they dont make a factory 496 they dont but go onto www.summitracing.com and checkout the engines department they make a remanufactured recon 496 rat motor.

I think i wrote my statment wrong i have respect for ricers alot of respect but till this day i have not seen one yet that can keep up with muscle cars, im not trying to sway your opinons or attack your hobbies im just trying to state my opion and if it is stated strongly you just need to deal with it. you clicked on the link not me.

if one of you can prove me wrong so be it but till this day domestic can still beat ricers and you guys just have to face the facts. and also im not trying to start a fight more of a debate not for people to cuss each other out but to get a better understanding of another persons hobbies.

Thanks buddy... Thanks for completely ruining the image I had spent the last year and half showing that Muscle car owners aren't assholes...

Thank you...

Worst of all, you've got same damn car as me...

Ugh...


Lets see some pictures of this '72 Nova... I also want to see pictures of your Recon 496 Big Block. What tranny are you going to run? Rear end?


Octagon, the Chevy 8.1L Vortec big block is a 496. Basically a worked over 454. A 502 (8.2L) is a whole different bore/stroke combo.

Redneck, if you don't like the ruined image, or the fact he has the same car as you, you can always send your car to me :) I'll take it off your hands. You can have my Caprice :) It has red stripe's on the back the reflect light when a car comes (the cops were to lazy to take all the stripes off) and is has a jesus fish :) It is regularly mistaken for a cop car, so some cops let it slip by and most people avoid speeding and flying past you. It's 1-0 too :) I beat a Grand Am several lights in a row with my big baby.

ok,

im not saying all you ricers are bad and for the dumbass who says they dont make a factory 496 they dont but go onto www.summitracing.com (http://www.summitracing.com) and checkout the engines department they make a remanufactured recon 496 rat motor.

I think i wrote my statment wrong i have respect for ricers alot of respect but till this day i have not seen one yet that can keep up with muscle cars, im not trying to sway your opinons or attack your hobbies im just trying to state my opion and if it is stated strongly you just need to deal with it. you clicked on the link not me.

if one of you can prove me wrong so be it but till this day domestic can still beat ricers and you guys just have to face the facts. and also im not trying to start a fight more of a debate not for people to cuss each other out but to get a better understanding of another persons hobbies.

I am REALLY inclined to close this...but since these things come in cycles and have to be cleared up out of AF's system every once in a while, I'll let this live for now.

72nova:

First and foremost, so we can all sound intelligent in here, if that's possible, since I lost about 10 IQ points reading your rant, what is your definition of rice?

What is your definition of muscle?

I await your answer, and will continue from there.

P.S.
While your mulling the answers to my questions, read up on this race between a well-modded car made in Detroit, vs a barely-modded car made in Tennessee:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=130547&highlight=carrrnuttt

dude that posted this thread i agree with u but dont start an arguement it wont get anywhere...just put up a thread in the muscle car area, or answer my thread! ricers just dont know much...jk without the fart cans some ricers are ok(i used to be one)

Being one of the moderators of this forum I should close this pile of crap right now, but I want to see what you have to retort against what carrnutt had to say and what I'm about to say.

1. You complain that you have to add forced induction to a four cylinder to keep up with the big V8s. All I can say to that is DUHHHH! It is half the motor, what do you expect?

2. I wouldn’t say that building up a sport compact car is more expensive than an old muscle car. Trust me, I have a lot of love and respect for old muscle cars. In fact my dream is to restore an old Mopar. Instead I am restoring and building up a 1990 Chrysler LeBaron GTC. Why you ask? Because I can't afford to restore and build up the old muscle car that I want. My LeBaron project should only cost me around $10,000 to complete and should be able to run 10s in the 1/4 as well as be able to hold corners with some of the best of them. To me that is a lot less money. I'll stick with this project now because it is unique, fast, and I love the car. Then when I have the money I will restore the old Mopar of my choice. So as you can see the muscle car path isn't always cheaper.

3. With my forced induction I can still manage to be a daily driver by running lower levels of boost and my engine will last a lot longer than someone who has built an N/A V8 to run 10s. Once again, a lot less expensive.

4. Now let me educate you on the usage of the terms rice and ricer. Rice is a car that has been modded distastefully be it interior, exterior, mechanically, or a combination or all of these. This does not matter if the car is made in Japan, United States, or even Europe. It also includes cars with three, cylinder, four cylinder, six cylinder, eight cylinder, ten cylinder, and twelve cylinder engines. Can you see where I am going? Any car can be made into rice. Now a ricer is a person that has little to know automotive knowledge but thinks they do and will flaunt it around this persons car might be rice and it might not. Learn to use these terms correctly around here, ignorance is not an excuse. Some people would prefer you don't use them at all.

5. Why can't people understand that some people have different tastes? There are people that look at you the same way wondering why you waste money on your Nova. If everyone agreed then the world would be a boring place, get over it. Also weather you like it or not, the sport compact car is the new hot rod. The muscle car era has come and gone and will never be back, once again, get over it.

I am hoping that you will open your mind and see the light, because you aren't off to the best start here. Biased opinions only annoy people here and start fights. Arguments are okay, but fights are not. Your thread here has been done so many times before you even came here and every time it has been started the way you started yours it has ended up as a flame war. So just lighten up and learn that not everyone agrees with you and not everyone shares your view.

im not saying muscle cars are unbeatable with rice burners im just saying it will cost 5 times more money and in the end muscle cars look better run better and win 99% of the time compared to shitty ricers.

You're not the sharpest tool in the shed are you???? I suppose those 1000 whp Supras are real slow in comparison. Get a life, and stop wasting people's time. This is coming from a muscle car owner.

good one polygon

This argument is so stupid.

Apples or Oranges?

Salami or Bologna?

Pepsi or Coke?

Gummy Bears or Gummy Worms?

Some people have different tastes than other people, that's all there is to it.

I'd love to see him get his ass handed to him by something that doesnt even use pisst-on's....

around and around and around.... :grinno:

MUA HA HAAA!! :evillol:

all the ricers have to have NOS and turbos what a bunch of bullshit and what a waste of money.

many japanese cars have more or less 2 litre engines. muscle cars usually have more or less 5 litre engines. what do you expect, this is just another way of boosting power, higher compression (dont flame me for this i dont really know what i am talking about right now) while muscle cars use displacement.

i expect this thread to be locked in the near future, its just another flame-war.

if one of you can prove me wrong so be it but till this day domestic can still beat ricers and you guys just have to face the facts. and also im not trying to start a fight more of a debate not for people to cuss each other out but to get a better understanding of another persons hobbies.

Beat in what way? I could annihilate your car on a road course or auto x, as could a lot of imports, and it would take you a lot of money just to keep up.

P.S. I have a friend with a 1st gen Talon that cuts 1.5 60's on the very same tires he goes to work on every day, at full street weight. I would seriously doubt he's got much more than $10,000 in his car, including the price of the car itself.

Redneck, thanks for filling me in on the 496ci Chevy. Wasn't aware of it. Always something new to learn.

Now, 72Nova, I'll never state that muscle cars are inferior in a straight line, and they can corner too. Hell, a Crown V8 1969 Corvair Monza coupe and a 1969 AMC AMX are two of my dream cars. However, a KPC110 Skyline GT-R, a Lancia Stratos, a Bugatti 57SC Atlantic, an Aston Martin DB4GT Zagato, and a Porsche 904GTS are also on that list of dream cars.

You state you'd like to get to know the import rodding hobby. What would you like to know? If it's why people take an interest in imports, it is really as varied as the selection of cars. For some, it's the chance to try a new approach to making power (John Lingenfelter's involvement with the Ecotec drag racing program is an excellent example of this). For others, it's an inclination to carve corners and duke it out on road courses (watch the Speed World Challenge Touring Championship to see this at its best) and for some it's simply because they're the cars they grew up around.

I grew up around, in succession, an Omni GLH, a Merkur XR4ATi, an Oldsmobile Firenza GT, a 1991 Mercury Capri, a 1996 Plymouth Neon Sport Coupe (with the twin-cam 2.0 and a host of mods) and most recently my MGB GT. I've been a regular attendee of SCCA club races, CART, USAC sprint cars and Silver Crown, ASA late model events, All-Star and World of Outlaw sprints, and my personal favorite ISMA Supermodifieds. I follow most every form of motorsport I can sink my teeth into, from Formula One to IRL to Trans-Am to Goody's Dash to NMCA Pro Street.

My mindset is that of an automobile enthusiast. I'll give anything with four wheels its due. Now, you can call me a dumbass if you wish but I'll guarantee you I feel I haven't missed out on a single chance to enjoy motoring at its finest in any form because of preconception or bias.

ok what i'm about to say i'm gonna say it in a very humble manner.
you guys can alter the definition of rice all you want. but the word came directly from racism torward the asian people. so when asians started souping up asian cars, it was also used to them as calling them ricers.
i guess the definition has been changed by majority vote but i don't personally like to use the word ricer, anyone who puts a wing on a civic and thinks its fast or someone put a can on the back of a sundance and think its fast are not called ricer to me, there called idiots.
but like i said the word ricer was formed into what you guys call it today.
so proceed with the convo. :2cents:

Well, here it is guys. Here's his definition of "muscle" and "rice" (via PM):

rice- any asian import

muscle- any american car that is post 1965 pre 1980

2000LS1Z28: I guess your car's not muscle? :dunno:

Also, I guess mine's not rice, since it was made in Tennessee? Cool. Most of the American Honda line-up, except for the NSX and the S2000, were built in America by good-'ol Americains, so I guess Civics aren't rice either, right?

Those cars were NEVER "imported".

Anyhow, take a look at the list below, and take a gander at how many "asian imports" are right up there with your definition of a "muscle car".

North America's Fastest Production Cars (http://www.autofacts.ca/classics/fast.htm)

Also, take a look at this:

1972 Muscle Cars (http://www.cccvette.com/1972musclecars.htm)

Take a gander at how many of those cars are in the 15's. My 1992 Sentra has run a best of 15.00 with ONLY a generic cone filter and an ignition-timing bump as my "upgrades". How many of those "muscle cars" do you think I could've beaten? You could even go back and start from 1965 if you want.

The 1972 Chevy Nova SS is listed at 15.50. I doubt if yours is an SS.

I guess that blows away your theory of rice not "hanging"...

...but oh wait. My car's not rice. Not by my definition, which is all looks, no go, or yours...asian import...since my car was never imported to this country. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/banghead.gif

What now?

Thanks buddy... Thanks for completely ruining the image I had spent the last year and half showing that Muscle car owners aren't assholes...

Thank you...

Worst of all, you've got same damn car as me...

Ugh...





HA.. God damn RedNeck.. Knew you were an asshole!! Stupid ass muscle car type owners !! DIE DIIIE DIIE!







I think I'm gonna go sell my Mustang and just get an import. Wait.. then theres ricers.. shit.. I'll go buy a hybrid vehicle and smoke all you guys with my gas station reciet slips. What now.

since my car was never imported to this country. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/banghead.gif

What now?

Mine was! Should I pull a plug wire to give him a chance? :lol:

haha...these things never end...

ah well...

my car has a "wing" on it...and its even got red badges, AND it was actually imported.

guess imma "ricer"

hahaha these debates are always a great waste of time

anyway here's my view

BEST Modified Car For Straight lines = Domestic
BEST Modified Car For Anything else (anything that basically involves cornering) = Import

NSX type R is the stock cornering GOD! Anyone see that best motoring SuperCar battle? NSX type R was faster threw corners than Muchielago F50 and 911 Turbo pity it couldn't keep up for long on straights. Needs an extra added 140hp for that little bit more oomph

haha...these things never end...

ah well...

my car has a "wing" on it...and its even got red badges, AND it was actually imported.

guess imma "ricer"

And it can't "hang" ;)

Especially on turns :D

hahaha these debates are always a great waste of time

anyway here's my view

BEST Modified Car For Straight lines = Domestic
BEST Modified Car For Anything else (anything that basically involves cornering) = Import

NSX type R is the stock cornering GOD! Anyone see that best motoring SuperCar battle? NSX type R was faster threw corners than Muchielago F50 and 911 Turbo pity it couldn't keep up for long on straights. Needs an extra added 140hp for that little bit more oomph


its true those debates are pointless....


but i disagree with the stereotypical....domestic=straight line import=corners

if you would see the handling capabilities of a viper gts or the new RT-10 or of a zo6 yoy would not say that

and if you would bring in the mosler it would not even be funy...personally i think the mosler would decimate the nsx-r even in corners


fact is everyone makes good cars.....all companies have billions of dollars worth of r&d and all the best engineers...and lets not forget that most of those companies are multinational and the words import and domestic are redundant

And it can't "hang" ;)

Especially on turns :D

of course it can't...

it was built for straight line racing an all... :rolleyes:

:biggrin:

well if its actual RICE (slow ass hondas with stickers and stupid wings) then muscle will own them. but i cant stand simple minded biased dick tards like you who think anything with 4 cylinders is rice. how about this for 4 cylinders owning the shit out of you.

4000hp out of 4 cylinders. 5.5 second 1/4 mile. owned, bitch.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0202tur_extremeedge/

hahah i think its soo funny that you don't think that a import can beat a domestic lol obviously you know absolutley nuthing about cars so go out and finds some videos dumbass. YOU NEED A ROLE MODEL...don't talk crap in here untill you actually know something about the subject your talking crap on. :disappoin

I think everyone should stop arguing and just buy a PORSCHE okay? :)

I think everyone should stop arguing and just buy a PORSCHE okay? :)
you buying? lol

its true those debates are pointless....


but i disagree with the stereotypical....domestic=straight line import=corners

if you would see the handling capabilities of a viper gts or the new RT-10 or of a zo6 yoy would not say that

and if you would bring in the mosler it would not even be funy...personally i think the mosler would decimate the nsx-r even in corners


fact is everyone makes good cars.....all companies have billions of dollars worth of r&d and all the best engineers...and lets not forget that most of those companies are multinational and the words import and domestic are redundant


I site the NSX Type R as my example no tricks no 4WD and it puts 3 seconds a lap on the Nissan Skyline R34 GTR Vspec II at Tsukuba circuit.

Don't tell me Vipers and Z06's will have a better or equal to cornering speed of the NSX Type R. Its not only unlikely its impossible.

I thought i'd use the NSX Type R as my example since it is the new generation of High end import cars and you chose high end domestic cars. How much does a Mosler cost? Is it a modified (glorified) corvette? If so i would then have to say a modified NSX Type R would be the only way to compare. Stock for Stock you can't beat an NSX Type R.
it weights 1274kg 220hp per tonne
where as the Z06 is 1458kg and


On a different note the TVR Cerbera 4.5 corners faster than a Viper any day of the week.

You might say everyone spends alot of money bla bla but face facts some manufacterers are better at somethings than others and Honda has its suspension systems down to an art. Every manufacterer is not the same every manufacturer has strenghts and weaknesses. Taking a stance straight down the middle means you are completely off the mark.

Take Kia for example crap performance all round. Not everyone is good at building cars and since the japanese have that 280hp limit they develop other area's of the car with alot more care and attention.

If you think that first comes an engine when you design a car. You're wrong. You design the suspension first.

Honda has its suspension systems down to an art.
Wouldn't that be Ferrari's claim to fame? I always thought Honda was about "getting more from less".

I don't really know which street car would win in a race but I don't doubt the race car versions of the Viper and Corvette can handle the NSX race car.

I site the NSX Type R as my example no tricks no 4WD and it puts 3 seconds a lap on the Nissan Skyline R34 GTR Vspec II at Tsukuba circuit.

Don't tell me Vipers and Z06's will have a better or equal to cornering speed of the NSX Type R. Its not only unlikely its impossible.

I thought i'd use the NSX Type R as my example since it is the new generation of High end import cars and you chose high end domestic cars. How much does a Mosler cost? Is it a modified (glorified) corvette? If so i would then have to say a modified NSX Type R would be the only way to compare. Stock for Stock you can't beat an NSX Type R.
it weights 1274kg 220hp per tonne
where as the Z06 is 1458kg and


On a different note the TVR Cerbera 4.5 corners faster than a Viper any day of the week.

You might say everyone spends alot of money bla bla but face facts some manufacterers are better at somethings than others and Honda has its suspension systems down to an art. Every manufacterer is not the same every manufacturer has strenghts and weaknesses. Taking a stance straight down the middle means you are completely off the mark.

Take Kia for example crap performance all round. Not everyone is good at building cars and since the japanese have that 280hp limit they develop other area's of the car with alot more care and attention.

If you think that first comes an engine when you design a car. You're wrong. You design the suspension first.


ok you make a lot of statements with no proof at all.....i'm not saying that you are wrong but where is the proff....just because you think so does not make it a fact

so please show me where the TVR actually outcornered a viper
also show me where the NSX-R outcornered a viper or a ZO6



Not do alow me to bring facts to the table.....yes actual documented facts you can very easily check

BBC's top gear has tested the both the 2002 Nsx-r and the 575 Maranello on a wet track and the nsx-r had a 1:33 vs the ferrari's 1:35 so the nsx-r was 0.02 sec faster than the grand tourer ferrari(and not the faster modena) Stig was the driver

so performance vs a 575 is barelly barelly better

Now lets open the June 2003 Motor Trend......Justin Bell was the driver (former Gts class Lemans Winner and one of the best drivers in the world)

well in mosts test including handling the zo6, the new srt-10 and the mosler beat the Ferrari

so from the facts i just presented the zo6 and the viper are at least equal with the nsx-r


And sir those are facts you can actually prove


oh and btw the mosler its not a glorified corvette since the only thing it shares with it is the engine....if you still call it a corvette then you can start calling the elise a celica GTS


and you call my middle ground position off the mark....yes sir i'm very sorry i'm not biased against brands.....i'll try from now on to either go on the domestic side and call al imports crap or go on the imports side and call all domestic crap...i guess i'll flip a coin
yes teribly sorry to be unbiased....i guess its one of my moral flaws


and yes given that the Kia has an enough of a financial basis i can see it building even a super car(of course kia most likely has not enough money to acheive that since its one of the smaller car companies in the world...but with enough money yes even kia could do it)

maybe hondas strength is its vtec? or the type r cars?

nsx-r vs skyline r34 gtr. which wins? i always thought the skyline was the best in corners

hondas strength is vtec? :lol: :loser: :eek7:

you cant get very much torque out of a vtec engine..

and honda even describes vtec as a way to reduce emissions while in the high rev range.

I site the NSX Type R as my example no tricks no 4WD and it puts 3 seconds a lap on the Nissan Skyline R34 GTR Vspec II at Tsukuba circuit.

Don't tell me Vipers and Z06's will have a better or equal to cornering speed of the NSX Type R. Its not only unlikely its impossible.

I thought i'd use the NSX Type R as my example since it is the new generation of High end import cars and you chose high end domestic cars. How much does a Mosler cost? Is it a modified (glorified) corvette? If so i would then have to say a modified NSX Type R would be the only way to compare. Stock for Stock you can't beat an NSX Type R.
it weights 1274kg 220hp per tonne
where as the Z06 is 1458kg and


On a different note the TVR Cerbera 4.5 corners faster than a Viper any day of the week.

You might say everyone spends alot of money bla bla but face facts some manufacterers are better at somethings than others and Honda has its suspension systems down to an art. Every manufacterer is not the same every manufacturer has strenghts and weaknesses. Taking a stance straight down the middle means you are completely off the mark.

Take Kia for example crap performance all round. Not everyone is good at building cars and since the japanese have that 280hp limit they develop other area's of the car with alot more care and attention.

If you think that first comes an engine when you design a car. You're wrong. You design the suspension first.

Speaking as someone who actually has been involved in the design of an automobile (helped with the design of the 1998 Bodnar Supermodified chassis) I can tell you that the very first thing you do is neither engine or suspension but the barebones CHASSIS first. You have to (in our case at least) chalk out every tube rail and crossmember. Then you design in the suspension (in our case, a very slick knuckle-actuated coilover IFS) and the engine (currently a Malcuit-built Chevy 488ci big block, it's been bored and stroked to the displacement limit of ISMA)

http://www.chez.com/bigguyracingphotos/supermodifie/daveshullicksr.jpg http://www.chez.com/bigguyracingphotos/supermodifie/daveshullickjrpic1.jpg These two cars are the result of all that work. The #33 is current lap record holder at Berlin Speedway, Sandusky Speedway, and former track record holder at Toledo Speedway while the #38 is the current track record holder at Mansfield Motorsports Speedway and was the MSA champion in 2001.

It's very easy to be middle of the road in opinion of car companies. Just judge each car as it comes. I can condemn the Pontiac Aztek and gush about the new GTO all in the same breath. It's not that difficult and it's very enjoyable because then I learn plenty about the automobiles around me.

You cite the NSX as an example of Japanese import performance and that is commendable. Any car that size with a unibody that weighs only 700lbs is certainly an impressive car. It's not as all conquering as you make it out to be, though, and has regularly been cited as being underpowered and having dull, uninspired styling. The NSX is Honda's supercar, but that certainly wasn't enough to overcome its $80,000 price tag and thus Vipers, Corvettes, and Ferraris outsold it in the US. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, in 2000 only 8 new NSX's were sold in the US and five of them were Targa-automatics.

These things are getting stupid:

Thank God for someone on this thread mentioning the 1000rwhp Supras. They'd be classified as rice by the ignorant, even though it goes against the criteria of small amounts of power, but IS an import (a stupid term for obvious reasons). Is that rice? Rice or not, it would give American tuned cars a damn good run for their money - speaking from a non-biased POV.

'Vettes can handle:

1G lateral.
7:57 on Nurburgring:

hope that people know that the C5 Z06 lapped the Nurburgring (same circuit layout used for the laps of Porsche 911s, etc) @ 7.57 mins. Now that is awesome, and right on par with the efforts from Europe and Japan. Well beating the efforts from Japan (NSX, GT-R), because the Nurburgring includes all sorts of corners, and straights (where the Japanese cars lose out and thus have a slower lap time because they don't have the same straight line speed, but an equally good chassis), and the track is the ultimate test not just for the car, but for the car AND driver as well, indicating that there was a very good driver behind a very good car. Porsche have lapped very similar times,

Now that is a very good lap time for a car that costs $50k, and is built with a lot of compromise, not fogetting that it isn't the most advanced car, but it has awesome on-track abilities, thanks to its chassis (although maybe not advanced, but technology isn't the solution to everything, but to a lot of problems). Granted, the suspension system has won awards for its technology (like the very quick damping rates).

Stereotypes proven wrong:-

American cars are only for straight line racing.
American cars are low tech.
American cars don't have a good chassis.
American cars have a low bhp/l ratio, but it doesn't effect what matters - performance.

However, if the next GT-R has similar power, which it most probably will, then we will see equally good lap times, with the close in the deficit of power making up for lost time, by not losing straight line speed.

Quoted by me from a different thread on a different message board, so slightly out of context.

I can, and have, proven all American car stereotypes WRONG.

Viper Comp. Coupe does 1.5G's, looks awesome, very little compromise, a lot of high tech, etc. Some of that would automatically give someone the impression that the car can handle, and this car can.

I haven't put this as well as I can because I am limited for time. Also, if people can get big hp from engines not designed to be tuned, which is hard, then people can make domestics handle, even with big power. The former is harder. The latter has already been done.

"well if its actual RICE (slow ass hondas with stickers and stupid wings) then muscle will own them. but i cant stand simple minded biased dick tards like you who think anything with 4 cylinders is rice. how about this for 4 cylinders owning the shit out of you.

4000hp out of 4 cylinders. 5.5 second 1/4 mile. owned, bitch.
"

Ironic enough that the 4-cylinder came from a Chevy V8.

What is the point of arguing over this just look who is faster on the street. Worlds fastest street legal car is a Supra runing 8.82 in the 1/4 mile. When I see a practical muscle car do better then I will be posting on their behalf. As far as the argument over which does it cheaper, consider this, not all turbochargers come from GReady or with a $5000 price tag, alot of people fabrocate their own systems from used-rebuilt parts. Just like alot of people rebuild old engines. I have seen people buy a great turbo for only a few hundred bucks. Plus a good 2JZ-GTE engine block will last forever and withstand over 1000hp, so to just blow off any jap car because it does not have a v8 is a huge mistake.

alright 72nova asshold...since i cant send you a private message to reply to my private message....here ya go!



there is no way you could smoke me in the 1/4 mile. i have a 72 nova with a 572 gm motor thats fully blown with a weiland 8-71 blower it has no NOS and it doesnt need it. the tranny is a turbo 400 with a shift kit.
it puts out 971 horse to the rear wheels and 1197 horse to the tranny.

Beat that bitch


i never said that i wanted to beat you, you stupid fuck.....wow, you have a fast car....who the hell cares...why do you have to say that shit about girls? i gaurentee you that i can out drive 90% of all guys....and im not just saying that.....yo, that is fucked up......what gives you the right to come onto our page and talk shit? how old are u?? 12? wtf man! if you are ya know older than 23.....dont waste my time...if you arnt...and u still got beef....call me up and bitch....(Number taken-out by carrrnuttt)...



i am sorry for posting this...but he pissed me off saying shit about girls cant drive...they should be allowed to race....shit like that....No F that....

What is the point of arguing over this just look who is faster on the street. Worlds fastest street legal car is a Supra runing 8.82 in the 1/4 mile. When I see a practical muscle car do better then I will be posting on their behalf. As far as the argument over which does it cheaper, consider this, not all turbochargers come from GReady or with a $5000 price tag, alot of people fabrocate their own systems from used-rebuilt parts. Just like alot of people rebuild old engines. I have seen people buy a great turbo for only a few hundred bucks. Plus a good 2JZ-GTE engine block will last forever and withstand over 1000hp, so to just blow off any jap car because it does not have a v8 is a huge mistake.


Well your another import idiot because Quick Street(Cars must be street legal) have mid 7-second V-8 cars running in it. So that Supra is far from the fastest.
I'm not saying the Supra isn't fast I'm just saying it's far from the fastest on the streets.

. I have seen people buy a great turbo for only a few hundred bucks.

I have to metion the mistubishi 14b turbo has taken gsx's and tsi's in the 12's. And guess what the average price for a good one is....? $100...now thats power for cheap.....

Well your another import idiot because Quick Street(Cars must be street legal) have mid 7-second V-8 cars running in it. So that Supra is far from the fastest.
I'm not saying the Supra isn't fast I'm just saying it's far from the fastest on the streets.

And I'll bet none of those cars ever see the street. Supra included. There is a Dart I've seen somewhere on the net that really does see street use, and runs 8's on the strip. But IIRC it runs 10's in true street setup.

Well your another import idiot because Quick Street(Cars must be street legal) have mid 7-second V-8 cars running in it. So that Supra is far from the fastest.
I'm not saying the Supra isn't fast I'm just saying it's far from the fastest on the streets.


Yes I know but they can only do that because they do not have to meet emisions laws thanks to the grandfather clause, that Supra that I mentioned does. So while cars made before 1975 (in some States) can run as much excess fuel as they like, modern cars have to stay within reasonable limits. So it depends on what you consider street legal. (I beleave that some states have removed their grandfather clause making alot of American Iron illigal) And for the record I am not an import idiot, I have alot of respect for whatever gets the job done, and I don't care what country it comes from.

And I'll bet none of those cars ever see the street. Supra included. There is a Dart I've seen somewhere on the net that really does see street use, and runs 8's on the strip. But IIRC it runs 10's in true street setup.

You are wrong the Supra that I mentioned has seen daily driver use, but the owner says that cops give him dirty looks when they see the drag parachutes on the back. That would be one heck of a daily driver.

I had this fight with my friends the other day

And I noticed when they say rice or import they all automaticly think 4banger Honda Civc. Nobody ever things Supra or andthink like that the frist think that comes to there head is 4 banger Honda Civic

OK, on the subject of rice. Rice is not all imports, period. Rice is any import that is either modified to the point of being slower than stock, or modified to look fast when it really is slow as hell. By slow I mean anything over 15.5 second 1/4 mile. Yes, a 15.4 is still pretty slow, but it's acceptable (barely.)

As for the "muscle cars are cheaper" argument, it's bullshit.

Stock Chevy Nova SS: about $6-7000
1g Mitsubishi eclipse gsx with 16g turbo, 660 injectors, bigger fuel pump, boost controller, exhaust (good for 300+ hp): $4-5000

I'd put my money on the eclipse.

Yes a lot of Quick Street Cars never see road duty. But they can and some people like my boss do drive thier quick street cars in nice days on the streets. My bosses 8 second Stang is registered and has full plates in NH and it is not exempt from anything like an old muscle car so your Supra isn't the only one doing it and it is still slower.

Once agian I'm not saying that Supra is slow by any means but it is still far from the fastest street driven car.

OK, on the subject of rice. Rice is not all imports, period. Rice is any import that is either modified to the point of being slower than stock, or modified to look fast when it really is slow as hell. By slow I mean anything over 15.5 second 1/4 mile. Yes, a 15.4 is still pretty slow, but it's acceptable (barely.)

As for the "muscle cars are cheaper" argument, it's bullshit.

Stock Chevy Nova SS: about $6-7000
1g Mitsubishi eclipse gsx with 16g turbo, 660 injectors, bigger fuel pump, boost controller, exhaust (good for 300+ hp): $4-5000

I'd put my money on the eclipse.


Stock Chevy Nova SS... what year? I'd like you to show me a original and stock Chevy Nova SS of any year for $6000-7000... I wouldnt mind having a numbers matching stock SS. :iceslolan

Well, 1970 SS396 Nova ran a 13.8 stock on ancient technology tires. So If it was stock, and in perfect running condition... I'd say it would be a fair competition given it was on modern tires of course.

Lets do some number crunching...

1970 Nova SS396
Horsepower: 375hp
Torque: 415tq
Weight: 3200-3300lbs (depending on options)
Weight balance: 52/48
Power to weight ratio: 8.8:1
1/4 mile: 13.8 @ 105mph

1992 Eclipse GSX stock (modified)
Horsepower : 195hp (300hp)
Torque: 203tq (300tq)
Weight: 3093lbs
Weight balance: ??
Power to weight ratio: 15.8:1 (10.3:1)
1/4 mile: 15.3 @ 88mph (???)

I estimate, the 1st gen GSX to be deep into the 13s with said modifications... but I still think it'd be closer than you'd like it to be if the stock Nova SS was on modern street tires.

Considering, a Stock '72 Nova SS would run a 15.5 @ 88mph with only 200hp in a 3200lb chassis (pretty much a dead even race with a '92 GSX)... I'd say a '70 SS396 with 375hp would be more than a match for a 300hp GSX.

All in all... run what you 'brung.. and hope you 'brung enough.

All in all... run what you 'brung.. and hope you 'brung enough.


Foo.. Chevy's got nothing on Mustangs....














Unless they have a LS1.

I totally agree with you that american muscle owns rice burners, it takes a lot of money to restore a old car though but there are infinate mods you can choose from on old cars and a very large selection in engines, anything from a 350 small block all the way up to the new chevy 572 and the 426 hemi's are also awsome, also those old school superchargers put out a lot more horses and a lot more torque than now days superchargers, and the turbochargers now days may add some horses but they take away the torque, I'd prefer any camaro before 72(60's were the best looking though), also the challengers, nova, chevelle, charger, barracuda, road runner, gto's, and the list goes on and on, even cutlass' came with a 442 in em, so those engines take out any stock and most engines with mods, if they turbo charge you super charge, american muscle all the way, just remember there is a price difference.

my penis is bigger than yours, wee! :rolleyes: