Rice vs Muscle

those old school superchargers put out a lot more horses and a lot more torque than now days superchargers, and the turbochargers now days may add some horses but they take away the torque

:spit: :eek7:

Do you even know how turbos or SC's work?

:spit: :eek7:

Do you even know how turbos or SC's work?

here is a perfect example of our "newbies" on the boards. :biggrin:

j/k, jus seems they're well...a whole new breed lately.

Turbos make just as much torque as superchargers do, they just operate independently of engine rpm, and aren't a huge parasitic drain on the engine. The only drawback is that you can't use exhaust pulse tuning when using a turbo.

And there is no such thing as a 442, the Cutlass 442 was called the 442 because it had a 4 barrel carb, 4 speed transmission, and it was a 2 door coupe...

Layla's Keeper

You're wrong in some respects you may have done it your way but i have been told by a guy who has worked for rally teams and is a part time lecturer and also works for an automotive engineering development company.

And the first thing we learned in last weeks workshop was that you set out the suspension first calculating the roll center and setting up the suspension so that you can get maximum tyre contact on the road at various angles of operation.

Also the NSX Type R is far from dull and unfortunately for you it is well worth its price tag. Just because it doesn't have the usual US requirement of 350+hp doesn't mean its crap.

The stig is a third rate driver. He got better at the track as the series went a long that is why the times got insanely faster.

NOTE : Best motoring raced an NSX Type R against a GT3 Skyline and other various incarnations of NSX's

The GT3 had the worst lap times

On the note of Top Gear. Top gear magazine had an article a while back with the Dodge Viper and Cerbera, Aston martin Vantage and numerous other cars.
They said the dodge viper was too big too heavy and handled horribly in corners and that the Cerbera was the best out of the bunch for cornering and in tests it also out accelerated the Viper. Faster Lighter better handling and less power. Sounds like the Cerbera has the Viper beat.

Altho i could say the Cerbera GT was a better comparison as both the GT and the Viper haver V10's it would just mean that it would get its ass whooped even more.

Have you ever watched Top Gear Neutrino? No i didn't think so because other wise you'd know that Jeremy Clarkson hates American Sports cars. He thinks they are so shit that in one of his lovely videos he shot a corvette to bits with a Helicopter that had two mini guns attached to it. I notice this sort of thing in almost every English magazine. They pretty much hate American sports cars. Best motoring also tested some American sports cars. They didn't like them too much. I think you are taking this subject badly and are in the process of personnally overatting the performance of the Z06 and Viper.


Also no one can apparently site the new GT40 as its handling was done by lotus and the engine was designed by someone else. > according to jeremy clarkson whether or not this is true i do not know.

maybe hondas strength is its vtec? or the type r cars?

nsx-r vs skyline r34 gtr. which wins? i always thought the skyline was the best in corners


NSX - R

best motoring did a drag race between the two NSX beat the Skyline but only just.

In a recent Best motoring the NSX type R had a faster lap time by about 3 or more seconds.

Don't listen to Neutrino about VTEC he doesn't know the advantages of it that well excuse his bias.

Somebody close this overall worthless thread of who has a bigger cock.

Stock Chevy Nova SS... what year? I'd like you to show me a original and stock Chevy Nova SS of any year for $6000-7000... I wouldnt mind having a numbers matching stock SS. :iceslolan

Well, 1970 SS396 Nova ran a 13.8 stock on ancient technology tires. So If it was stock, and in perfect running condition... I'd say it would be a fair competition given it was on modern tires of course.

Lets do some number crunching...

1970 Nova SS396
Horsepower: 375hp
Torque: 415tq
Weight: 3200-3300lbs (depending on options)
Weight balance: 52/48
Power to weight ratio: 8.8:1
1/4 mile: 13.8 @ 105mph

1992 Eclipse GSX stock (modified)
Horsepower : 195hp (300hp)
Torque: 203tq (300tq)
Weight: 3093lbs
Weight balance: ??
Power to weight ratio: 15.8:1 (10.3:1)
1/4 mile: 15.3 @ 88mph (???)

I estimate, the 1st gen GSX to be deep into the 13s with said modifications... but I still think it'd be closer than you'd like it to be if the stock Nova SS was on modern street tires.

Considering, a Stock '72 Nova SS would run a 15.5 @ 88mph with only 200hp in a 3200lb chassis (pretty much a dead even race with a '92 GSX)... I'd say a '70 SS396 with 375hp would be more than a match for a 300hp GSX.

All in all... run what you 'brung.. and hope you 'brung enough.


I hate to argue the point here redneck. But any track going 1st gen with those mods with good driver are in the low to high 12's( A stock turboed 1st gen can hit the 12's let alone a bigger turbo. At worst a gsx with those mods are low 13's untuned and the drivers a novice. Your about 1 second off. And yes it only will cost you 5k at mid cost range. I admit I dont know anything about a 72 nova( and admit they are bad ass modified) But a 1st gen gsx which weighs 2700lbs FULL INTERIOR with 300 hp( and how do you get a 1st gen gsx with a big 16g with those mods with only 300hp? Those mods can deffinatly get a gsx in the 325-350 range. But still a gsx/300hp/2700lbs/2500 with weight reduction and AWD is just a FORCE to rekon with. Definatly in the 12's and im not arguing the NOVA's not as fast modified. But for the money to track 1/4 mile times. The dsm takes it hands down( BASED OFF MY PAST EXPERIANCES).. thanks

So, you're stating that the NSX's lack of power, and the fact that the styling is sterile and uninspired, are both benefits to the car because of what you saw on TV?

And, of course, naturally a rally car (usually based on a production unibody) is going to be a different desgin case than an open-wheel race car built from the ground up.

Take a look at the Speed World Challenge GT class. The only way the NSX could keep up was with Vortech supercharging. And let's not forget these cars' rapid market depreciation. While Ferrari 328GTS's (the car Honda said the NSX was intended to compete with) hold in the $50,000 area, same year NSX's sit at $25,000 to $30,000 and are still going down.

And again, the sales figures don't lie. The NSX failed to meet expectations ten-fold. As competent as it was for getting through the twisties and as wonderful as the build quality was, it wasn't daring enough in styling, or bold enough in execution to lure people out of the Ferrari, Porsche, Corvette, or Viper dealerships.

Perhaps the story would have been different if the NSX had been introduced at the RX-7/Supra/300ZX pricepoint.

Also, the story may change now if this concept is indeed the styling direction of the next generation of NSX's.http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/image/1023200315323455.jpg

I own RICE, Supra, and 3 R32 Skyline GTRs. I own American Muscle as well 1970 Cougar Eliminator with a BOSS 302, and a Supercharged Mustang w/ N2O. Which do I like better, neither they all have there place. They are all different. Is one better than the other, NO!

If you are going to pull numbers, and do a comparison to prove your point, you do not get it. If you think one is better than the other, you are biased to the point where it is affecting your judgement.

Do I like all cars, nope. But, if someone is going to put there time and money into something they like, that is cool with me. I might not get it, but they are car people, and to tell you the truth its a very small portion of the populus. I like the fact that other people think different from I, it makes this world interesting.

What's if someone has a different opinion that you. Big deal, callin them names does not make your opinion more noble.

Come on guys, don't be a tool :grinno: Like Rodney King once said "Can't we all just get along" What was he driving....a Hyundai:)

I hate to argue the point here redneck. But any track going 1st gen with those mods with good driver are in the low to high 12's( A stock turboed 1st gen can hit the 12's let alone a bigger turbo. At worst a gsx with those mods are low 13's untuned and the drivers a novice. Your about 1 second off. And yes it only will cost you 5k at mid cost range. I admit I dont know anything about a 72 nova( and admit they are bad ass modified) But a 1st gen gsx which weighs 2700lbs FULL INTERIOR with 300 hp( and how do you get a 1st gen gsx with a big 16g with those mods with only 300hp? Those mods can deffinatly get a gsx in the 325-350 range. But still a gsx/300hp/2700lbs/2500 with weight reduction and AWD is just a FORCE to rekon with. Definatly in the 12's and im not arguing the NOVA's not as fast modified. But for the money to track 1/4 mile times. The dsm takes it hands down( BASED OFF MY PAST EXPERIANCES).. thanks


Where did I get 300hp with those mods?


1g Mitsubishi eclipse gsx with 16g turbo, 660 injectors, bigger fuel pump, boost controller, exhaust (good for 300+ hp): $4-5000

He said it, I just used 300hp as a benchmark.

And I'm pretty sure a DSM with AWD is a bit heavier than 2700lbs.

Edmunds.com shows a:
'94 GSX @ 3093lbs
'93 GSX @ 3093lbs
'92 GSX @ 3093lbs
'91 GSX N/A
'90 GSX @ 3095lbs

The GS Turbo Eclipses were:
'94 GS-T @ 2778lbs
'93 GS-T N/A
'92 GS-T @ 2778lbs
'91 GS-T N/A
'90 GS-T @ 2745lbs

Phew, that's alot of typing...

So, a 3100lb AWD Eclipse vs a 3200lb RWD Nova... I still say it'd be closer than you'd probably be willing to admit. :p

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/image/1023200315323455.jpg
If that was the new NSX I don't see where it's making a breakthrough in styling. Every extremely high dollar sports car lately has been going with a look similar to that. Some of the concepts, that Swedish car, McLaren, and even that Ferrari Enzo have a similar shape to this. Will it still look cool? Of course, but enough is enough.

I don't care what the hell you say about NSX's handling Type R this Type R that, you can't sell a $90,000 car with only 280 hp. That is just stupid, and it shows. These days a car like that needs at least 415 hp to compete in the market, sorry Honda that may mean having to use a bigger engine over 3 liters for once.

Redneck:my consumer reports gives the curb weight for an unspecified model/year 1st gen as 2502. It's probably more for the awd, but 500 lbs worht? I guess you're right though, maybe it just is a heavier system than I thought it was.

As for the price on a nova, I just picked up a newspaper. The car they were talking about was probably a mangled pile of rusty, mismatching parts with a tree growing through it. I just typed the first price I saw.

I'll let spyder do the talking here, he seems more inteligent than I am.

Lets get one thing streight, what yall are calling ricers (those stupid 18 year olds driving an automatic Honda DX and trying to pass it off as a racing car) we call them posers, and I will agree with you they are pathetic in every sence of the word, but there are some truly amazing import cars here. Some of them are even 4 cylinders like the Evo which does the 1/4 mile in 13.06 and the Jap spec version does the 1/4 in the 12s. That is faster than the GT500 faster than the Superbird faster than anything that we consider a Muscle car, plus it gets good fuel economy and seats 5 comfortably unlike any muscle car that I have ever riden in. As far as handeling goes it BEAT the Viper through the cones 68mph vs 71mph. It corners at .97G's and it's breaking is nearly the best in the world. (106ft 60-0) All for under 30k, if you don't think that that is amazing than you are totaly brainwashed.

EVOs are not be taking lightly, with that being said, my 87 Stang would kill it in every performance category:) And I have half of what the EVO cost invested in my LX.

EVOs are not be taking lightly, with that being said, my 87 Stang would kill it in every performance category:) And I have half of what the EVO cost invested in my LX.


haha! Someone always does it faster and does it cheaper than you.. hahaha... This import vs. domestic crap will never end.. like the chicken and the egg argument..

knowledge is power.

Redneck:my consumer reports gives the curb weight for an unspecified model/year 1st gen as 2502. It's probably more for the awd, but 500 lbs worht? I guess you're right though, maybe it just is a heavier system than I thought it was.

As for the price on a nova, I just picked up a newspaper. The car they were talking about was probably a mangled pile of rusty, mismatching parts with a tree growing through it. I just typed the first price I saw.

I'll let spyder do the talking here, he seems more inteligent than I am.


Redneck I hate to argue with you bud. Again im not doubting the capabilities of the nova. And the 1st gen gsxes at the heavyest with full interior max at 3000lbs more with a fat driver. Chec2k out dsmtuners 1/4 mile times and check the weight and mods. With basic weight rduction(spare tire, etc you can get up to 2600 lbs thats gsx, the gst's are alot lighter. Now your saying a heavyer nova 320 hp rwd 3200lbs-3000lbs with weight reduction can hang with a 300+hp gsx?( and thats the lowest hp rating on a gsx with those mods, average hp rating is 325-350 and can get up to 375 hp with tunage with the 16g. 2600-3000lb. Its a win win for the gsx from the first chirp of tires. And the gsx dirver dosent have to be a track goes because all you go is drip the clutch at 5k and its over from 1st gear. Ok a nova sounds nice and mean when modded. But to get the nova in the gsx 1/4 mile time range is gunna DEFINATLY cost you a arm or leg more spent than the gsx. And yes the 2gen eclipses are more the bling bling type. But I have the same motor 4g63t and can get the same mods for the same price. Let alone have the best body style with the convertible. Now from what ive got from my car Id say I chose the best car for performance/looks.

Now from what ive got from my car Id say I chose the best car for performance/looks.

You could say that doesn't mean it is true. :sunglasse

You know i dont see what all the fuss is about. You sound like a f***ing showoff with your 72 nova. :nono: You know how many people i know with a nova? lots yes lots. And im not saying muscle cars are bad at all...if i could id own one. but this is for the ricers also. I think both cars are cool see my name? thats the car ive got and i'll have to admit ford went really ricer on the focus.....but its a domestic car. so see im sampling some of both right now. Both of them are cool and you people dont relize that you can put a turbo and nitrous on a muscle car too so why are you all b**ching about turbos and nitrous??? :eek7:

If I had to money down on a 72 Nova with 320hp, or a AWD Eclipes with 300. Starch please.

You know i dont see what all the fuss is about. You sound like a f***ing showoff with your 72 nova. :nono: You know how many people i know with a nova? lots yes lots. And im not saying muscle cars are bad at all...if i could id own one. but this is for the ricers also. I think both cars are cool see my name? thats the car ive got and i'll have to admit ford went really ricer on the focus.....but its a domestic car. so see im sampling some of both right now. Both of them are cool and you people dont relize that you can put a turbo and nitrous on a muscle car too so why are you all b**ching about turbos and nitrous??? :eek7:


And your point is....?

Seriously, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. It's more rambling than ranting. Considering I do both I know that pretty well.

Basically, any car can be made to do anything. What divides them is how much money/time/effort/ingenuity it costs to make them do whatever it is you want. There are people out there trying to get FF Civics to run 7's. That's their thing. There's a guy somewhere out there who autocrosses a 1982 Cadillace Fleetwood Brougham. That's his thing. There's Poor Boys Racing, a team which campaigns a 1978 Chevy Chevette in SCCA club racing and consistently makes it to the Runoffs.

Hell, there are Civics at Bonneville.

As long as you have the money/time/effort/ingenuity, you can make a car do anything. What you want from the car you start with is what determines how much money/time/effort/ingenuity you'll have to expend. And EVERY car is unique.

You know i dont see what all the fuss is about. You sound like a f***ing showoff with your 72 nova. :nono: You know how many people i know with a nova? lots yes lots. And im not saying muscle cars are bad at all...if i could id own one. but this is for the ricers also. I think both cars are cool see my name? thats the car ive got and i'll have to admit ford went really ricer on the focus.....but its a domestic car. so see im sampling some of both right now. Both of them are cool and you people dont relize that you can put a turbo and nitrous on a muscle car too so why are you all b**ching about turbos and nitrous??? :eek7:

just in case you didnt know, the focus has been selling in europe before it came to the US, so maybe thats why its different from what ford usually sells to us. i think its called ford cosworth in europe, not sure.

Cosworth are Escorts.

Focus is a Focus:)

Cosworth are Escorts.

Focus is a Focus:)

Or around here a Fucus :sunglasse

Main reason i hate ricers is that they are asian and asian men HAVE SMALL PEE PEE'S !!!! lol
Muscle for Life

man, i dont think you know what rice means in the car world. it applies to every car, and you d probably be suprise at who owns those riced out cars.

Main reason i hate ricers is that they are asian and asian men HAVE SMALL PEE PEE'S !!!! lol
Muscle for Life

yeahhhhh... good one :rolleyes:

Main reason i hate ricers is that they are asian and asian men HAVE SMALL PEE PEE'S !!!! lol
Muscle for Life
Another reason a Mod should've closed this thread long ago. Its the same shit over and over and over again. Just when it's dying down, we get a noob that just fans the flames. This thread has been dead. Someone close it.



BTW, good one cough. Great fucking post.

Main reason i hate ricers is that they are asian and asian men HAVE SMALL PEE PEE'S !!!! lol
Muscle for Life
I dont even know who you are and I hate your life, and that takes a lot to get me to think like that; congrats. :loser:

Main reason i hate ricers is that they are asian and asian men HAVE SMALL PEE PEE'S !!!! lol
Muscle for Life
i dunno i guess people like to support racist remark on this site..also
having a "small pee pee" has nothing to do with race its a stereotype

Redneck I hate to argue with you bud. Again im not doubting the capabilities of the nova. And the 1st gen gsxes at the heavyest with full interior max at 3000lbs more with a fat driver. Chec2k out dsmtuners 1/4 mile times and check the weight and mods. With basic weight rduction(spare tire, etc you can get up to 2600 lbs thats gsx, the gst's are alot lighter. Now your saying a heavyer nova 320 hp rwd 3200lbs-3000lbs with weight reduction can hang with a 300+hp gsx?( and thats the lowest hp rating on a gsx with those mods, average hp rating is 325-350 and can get up to 375 hp with tunage with the 16g. 2600-3000lb. Its a win win for the gsx from the first chirp of tires. And the gsx dirver dosent have to be a track goes because all you go is drip the clutch at 5k and its over from 1st gear. Ok a nova sounds nice and mean when modded. But to get the nova in the gsx 1/4 mile time range is gunna DEFINATLY cost you a arm or leg more spent than the gsx. And yes the 2gen eclipses are more the bling bling type. But I have the same motor 4g63t and can get the same mods for the same price. Let alone have the best body style with the convertible. Now from what ive got from my car Id say I chose the best car for performance/looks.

I like how you tell me how cool Eclipses are...

So I won't even mention how your modded GS-T lost to a stock '92 SE-R...... I know below the belt but I hope you don't hate me too much. :biggrin:

I'd like to see how you drop 500lbs from a 3093lb GSX to 2600lbs by just removing the 'spare tire' and other small things.

And where did you get 320hp Nova? I was talking about the '70 Nova SS396 with 375hp which could run a 13.8 on crap tires. The '72 Nova SS350 with 200hp would run 15.4 on crap tires.

Now, after saying that... I'm not saying the Nova is the king of anything. Infact, there are so many inbred Nova owners out there it pisses me off... kinda like 72Nova. I bet if you trace his family tree... he's really his own brother.

I just think the race would still be closer than you Eclipse owners would like to admit. AWD is nice, but after the take off... you're at the mercy of top end pull.

Okay, so now that this has turned into an import vs domestic thread. Lock this useless thread. If not, it'll resurface every time a new person comes on and decides to resurrect old threads.