Cars I hate
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Jay2002WS6
08-13-2003, 07:23 PM
Originally posted by zackiedawg
Jay,
Just as an FYI, not to say I disagree with the context of your argument, but the Aztek is NOT selling well, has never sold well, and has indeed been slated for removal from the market after 2004 models, despite the redesign to try to get people over the awkward appearance of the vehicle.
.......... Instead, the Aztek is slated for an early production death next year.
If that's true then I stand corrected.
Jay,
Just as an FYI, not to say I disagree with the context of your argument, but the Aztek is NOT selling well, has never sold well, and has indeed been slated for removal from the market after 2004 models, despite the redesign to try to get people over the awkward appearance of the vehicle.
.......... Instead, the Aztek is slated for an early production death next year.
If that's true then I stand corrected.
Eldalie
08-17-2003, 03:45 AM
http://members.webjnky.com/albums/All-Other-Cars/Widebody_Aztek_photochop.sized.jpg
http://a7.cpimg.com/image/ED/39/6779117-bfaf-0280017C-.jpg
:iagree: If they had done it this way woah ! The car would sell ! Even in Europe and Asia...
But this is what the Executives and Pontiac should do regarding the Aztek > :banghead:
http://a7.cpimg.com/image/ED/39/6779117-bfaf-0280017C-.jpg
:iagree: If they had done it this way woah ! The car would sell ! Even in Europe and Asia...
But this is what the Executives and Pontiac should do regarding the Aztek > :banghead:
Jimster
08-17-2003, 04:20 AM
Jimster -
Chris V knows his shit. He may not have many posts here, but he has mountains of posts and experience in other places.
His points are exactly right. The Aztek does what it is supposed to do. It meets the niche it was looking to meet, and like it or not, HAS MANY SATISFIED CUSTOMERS. On top of all that, it meets its #1 goal -- it sells, and it's profitable.
Personally, I could never get past the Aztek's looks to buy one. My eyes tell me it is indeed ugly. But facts are facts, and the Aztek sells, whether this is in accordance with the Jimster's feelings or not - it really doesn't matter.
Chris V also represents himself in the above argument as far more intelligent. Saying things like "Americans are simple minded" or "American cars are prehistoric" and implying that American's quality or performance doesn't measure up to the rest of the world makes you, YES YOU, look ignorant.
I have only ever had a good experience with 3 American vehicles out of about 30-ish that I have encountered- and these were all Chryslers- a Viper RT/10, Voyager and a Grand Cherokee- 2 made in Austria, one in the US- Everything else I have driven has had dodgy interior plastics (Malibu, Mustang, Cavalier, Neon, Camaro and the US Focus being the biggest culprits here) that look as if they'd melt if lest in the California/Florida sun- yet alone the Arizona sun. Compare the interior quality of a German or Japanese car to an American made car and you'll see what I mean. and Yes the US car makers HAVE been slow to catch onto technology offered by the rest of the world- GM swears by pushrods, Ford is only starting to slowly phase them out and Chrysler has damn-near ditched them- if they already haven't, the Camaro and Firebird were still using Live Rear axles until they were killed off, I could go on- but time is precious.
The Aztek posted by Zackiedawg is actually quite nice looking- the flared arches DEFINITELY set this vehicle off and the front has a hint of Chrysler Crossfire to it get some smaller body colour mirrors (Maybe from an M5) paint it black and you have a 1930's Gangster car retro-throwback :grinyes:
Chris V knows his shit. He may not have many posts here, but he has mountains of posts and experience in other places.
His points are exactly right. The Aztek does what it is supposed to do. It meets the niche it was looking to meet, and like it or not, HAS MANY SATISFIED CUSTOMERS. On top of all that, it meets its #1 goal -- it sells, and it's profitable.
Personally, I could never get past the Aztek's looks to buy one. My eyes tell me it is indeed ugly. But facts are facts, and the Aztek sells, whether this is in accordance with the Jimster's feelings or not - it really doesn't matter.
Chris V also represents himself in the above argument as far more intelligent. Saying things like "Americans are simple minded" or "American cars are prehistoric" and implying that American's quality or performance doesn't measure up to the rest of the world makes you, YES YOU, look ignorant.
I have only ever had a good experience with 3 American vehicles out of about 30-ish that I have encountered- and these were all Chryslers- a Viper RT/10, Voyager and a Grand Cherokee- 2 made in Austria, one in the US- Everything else I have driven has had dodgy interior plastics (Malibu, Mustang, Cavalier, Neon, Camaro and the US Focus being the biggest culprits here) that look as if they'd melt if lest in the California/Florida sun- yet alone the Arizona sun. Compare the interior quality of a German or Japanese car to an American made car and you'll see what I mean. and Yes the US car makers HAVE been slow to catch onto technology offered by the rest of the world- GM swears by pushrods, Ford is only starting to slowly phase them out and Chrysler has damn-near ditched them- if they already haven't, the Camaro and Firebird were still using Live Rear axles until they were killed off, I could go on- but time is precious.
The Aztek posted by Zackiedawg is actually quite nice looking- the flared arches DEFINITELY set this vehicle off and the front has a hint of Chrysler Crossfire to it get some smaller body colour mirrors (Maybe from an M5) paint it black and you have a 1930's Gangster car retro-throwback :grinyes:
Jay2002WS6
08-17-2003, 11:18 AM
I have only ever had a good experience with 3 American vehicles out of about 30-ish that I have encountered- and these were all Chryslers- a Viper RT/10, Voyager and a Grand Cherokee- 2 made in Austria, one in the US- Everything else I have driven has had dodgy interior plastics (Malibu, Mustang, Cavalier, Neon, Camaro and the US Focus being the biggest culprits here) that look as if they'd melt if lest in the California/Florida sun- yet alone the Arizona sun. Compare the interior quality of a German or Japanese car to an American made car and you'll see what I mean. and Yes the US car makers HAVE been slow to catch onto technology offered by the rest of the world- GM swears by pushrods, Ford is only starting to slowly phase them out and Chrysler has damn-near ditched them- if they already haven't, the Camaro and Firebird were still using Live Rear axles until they were killed off, I could go on- but time is precious.
:headshake I don't know why you don't get it. If a car is fast, the car is fast. The technology the engine uses is pointless if the car's performance isn't there to back it up. So the LS1 is a pushrod... big deal... It has enough torque and horsepower to accelerate the Corvette to sub-13 quarter mile runs. The LS6 in the Z06 approaches 12 flat when driven well. On top of that, on a highway cruise, you can see up to 29 mpg in fuel economy. I can tell you have quite a bit of experience with cars, so I am probably just regurgitating information you already know... BUT I just can't believe that when you see figures like that, that you can still call the engine "low-tech." It gets the job done -- and on top of that, it will run forever. The LS1 is an engineering marvel -- forget about it's low HP/L rating -- you are never going to lose a race on the street and then try to redeem yourself by calling the other guy's engine "low tech" and telling him you have "more HP/L." I completely fail when I try to find fault with the "antiquated" pushrod LS1.
As far as the interiors go... indeed the Germans have nicer looking and feeling stuff. I dispute your claim about the Japanese, however. At any rate, the ergonomics of the interior of my car (A Trans Am WS6) are far superior to other German cars I have recently ridden in. They include, a BMW 540i, an Audi A8L, and a Merceds-Benz CL55 AMG. I find my cockpit (as a whole, not just the seats) to be more comfortable, and more functional. The radio is slightly tilted toward the driver and easy to reach, same with the climate controls. The shifter is placed in the palm of my hand. In short, the interior - while not flashy - fits me like a glove. In the BMW, Audi, and Mercedes, the controls on the center console are all a difficult reach, making me sit up in my seat to have to adjust something.
As for the solid rear-axles... The Camaro and Trans Am are supposed to be drag racers -- the solid rear axle is better for that application which is why GM stuck with that. That said, the F-bodies are FAR from a "straight-line only" car. They handle very well, it is a myth that says they do not. Certainly, they are no Corvette or 911 Turbo... but their handling ability is quite impressive indeed.
The bottom line is that the Americans have a different market. People here still love the low-end torque, and the meaty growl of large displacement V8's. When they can have that, and perform on a very competitive level with some of the greatest cars in the world, all while getting great fuel economy and dependability -- and spend $50K on it... I think the Americans are doing one hell fo a job.
:headshake I don't know why you don't get it. If a car is fast, the car is fast. The technology the engine uses is pointless if the car's performance isn't there to back it up. So the LS1 is a pushrod... big deal... It has enough torque and horsepower to accelerate the Corvette to sub-13 quarter mile runs. The LS6 in the Z06 approaches 12 flat when driven well. On top of that, on a highway cruise, you can see up to 29 mpg in fuel economy. I can tell you have quite a bit of experience with cars, so I am probably just regurgitating information you already know... BUT I just can't believe that when you see figures like that, that you can still call the engine "low-tech." It gets the job done -- and on top of that, it will run forever. The LS1 is an engineering marvel -- forget about it's low HP/L rating -- you are never going to lose a race on the street and then try to redeem yourself by calling the other guy's engine "low tech" and telling him you have "more HP/L." I completely fail when I try to find fault with the "antiquated" pushrod LS1.
As far as the interiors go... indeed the Germans have nicer looking and feeling stuff. I dispute your claim about the Japanese, however. At any rate, the ergonomics of the interior of my car (A Trans Am WS6) are far superior to other German cars I have recently ridden in. They include, a BMW 540i, an Audi A8L, and a Merceds-Benz CL55 AMG. I find my cockpit (as a whole, not just the seats) to be more comfortable, and more functional. The radio is slightly tilted toward the driver and easy to reach, same with the climate controls. The shifter is placed in the palm of my hand. In short, the interior - while not flashy - fits me like a glove. In the BMW, Audi, and Mercedes, the controls on the center console are all a difficult reach, making me sit up in my seat to have to adjust something.
As for the solid rear-axles... The Camaro and Trans Am are supposed to be drag racers -- the solid rear axle is better for that application which is why GM stuck with that. That said, the F-bodies are FAR from a "straight-line only" car. They handle very well, it is a myth that says they do not. Certainly, they are no Corvette or 911 Turbo... but their handling ability is quite impressive indeed.
The bottom line is that the Americans have a different market. People here still love the low-end torque, and the meaty growl of large displacement V8's. When they can have that, and perform on a very competitive level with some of the greatest cars in the world, all while getting great fuel economy and dependability -- and spend $50K on it... I think the Americans are doing one hell fo a job.
Jimster
08-18-2003, 03:07 AM
:headshake I don't know why you don't get it. If a car is fast, the car is fast. The technology the engine uses is pointless if the car's performance isn't there to back it up. So the LS1 is a pushrod... big deal... It has enough torque and horsepower to accelerate the Corvette to sub-13 quarter mile runs. The LS6 in the Z06 approaches 12 flat when driven well. On top of that, on a highway cruise, you can see up to 29 mpg in fuel economy. I can tell you have quite a bit of experience with cars, so I am probably just regurgitating information you already know... BUT I just can't believe that when you see figures like that, that you can still call the engine "low-tech." It gets the job done -- and on top of that, it will run forever. The LS1 is an engineering marvel -- forget about it's low HP/L rating -- you are never going to lose a race on the street and then try to redeem yourself by calling the other guy's engine "low tech" and telling him you have "more HP/L." I completely fail when I try to find fault with the "antiquated" pushrod LS1.
As far as the interiors go... indeed the Germans have nicer looking and feeling stuff. I dispute your claim about the Japanese, however. At any rate, the ergonomics of the interior of my car (A Trans Am WS6) are far superior to other German cars I have recently ridden in. They include, a BMW 540i, an Audi A8L, and a Merceds-Benz CL55 AMG. I find my cockpit (as a whole, not just the seats) to be more comfortable, and more functional. The radio is slightly tilted toward the driver and easy to reach, same with the climate controls. The shifter is placed in the palm of my hand. In short, the interior - while not flashy - fits me like a glove. In the BMW, Audi, and Mercedes, the controls on the center console are all a difficult reach, making me sit up in my seat to have to adjust something.
As for the solid rear-axles... The Camaro and Trans Am are supposed to be drag racers -- the solid rear axle is better for that application which is why GM stuck with that. That said, the F-bodies are FAR from a "straight-line only" car. They handle very well, it is a myth that says they do not. Certainly, they are no Corvette or 911 Turbo... but their handling ability is quite impressive indeed.
The bottom line is that the Americans have a different market. People here still love the low-end torque, and the meaty growl of large displacement V8's. When they can have that, and perform on a very competitive level with some of the greatest cars in the world, all while getting great fuel economy and dependability -- and spend $50K on it... I think the Americans are doing one hell fo a job.
Well if it's V8's that the US makers "Do best" then why is there a sufficient lack of V8 vehicles on the market? There is the Mustang GT/Cobra, Crown Victoria and Corvette but other than that no passenger car offers a V8 to the best of my knowledge. And while there is no denying V8's sound nice in the low-range they also are beginning to fall behind the Turbo'd 4's and 6's from Japan. Pretty much all Ford and GM have is FWD rubbish (Impala, Cavalier, Malibu, Taurus/Sable, Grand AM, Grand Prix) with Lousy 4's or Gutless Pushrod V6's (Even though the 3.8 is REASONABLY good) or SUV's and Pickups- that while they are what the market wants are still by no means any good (Except for Jeep, who have been in this business forever anyway). Saying the cars are made like this for the American market is a cop-out-
Perhaps Ford and GM should take a leaf out of thier Australian counterparts books. ie the Ford Falcon- Nicely equipped, stylish, Taurus sized RWD Sedan or Station Wagon with a Gutsy I6 or Triton and BOSS V8 options (and also a Turbo I6) all for around the wages of the average Middle Class family- THAT is the type of car America was producing a long time ago- that is what an American car is and should by all means be.
The Firebird/Camaro are by far a VERY average car when shown the corners- they tend to slide a little too much ESPECIALLY when compared to the IRS-equipped Corvette (When fitted with decent tyres)- However taking the IRS from a Corvette and putting it in a Camaro is a pretty common thing Stateside or so I hear.
Putting controls facing the driver are smart when the car is predominantly sold as an RHD or LHD car- but is murder when you convert the steering wheel to the other side of the car- as my friend learnt when he converted a Camaro Z28 to RHD. I was thinking more of the VW Passat and Golf when I speak of ergonomics- and I'm sure Zackie would agree here- Big stereo buttons, Big Climate Control buttons, seat heaters on the dash (As opposed to by the seat and a user-freindly stereo and when in manual- an easy to reach gear lever- all while remaining so simple to operate
As far as the interiors go... indeed the Germans have nicer looking and feeling stuff. I dispute your claim about the Japanese, however. At any rate, the ergonomics of the interior of my car (A Trans Am WS6) are far superior to other German cars I have recently ridden in. They include, a BMW 540i, an Audi A8L, and a Merceds-Benz CL55 AMG. I find my cockpit (as a whole, not just the seats) to be more comfortable, and more functional. The radio is slightly tilted toward the driver and easy to reach, same with the climate controls. The shifter is placed in the palm of my hand. In short, the interior - while not flashy - fits me like a glove. In the BMW, Audi, and Mercedes, the controls on the center console are all a difficult reach, making me sit up in my seat to have to adjust something.
As for the solid rear-axles... The Camaro and Trans Am are supposed to be drag racers -- the solid rear axle is better for that application which is why GM stuck with that. That said, the F-bodies are FAR from a "straight-line only" car. They handle very well, it is a myth that says they do not. Certainly, they are no Corvette or 911 Turbo... but their handling ability is quite impressive indeed.
The bottom line is that the Americans have a different market. People here still love the low-end torque, and the meaty growl of large displacement V8's. When they can have that, and perform on a very competitive level with some of the greatest cars in the world, all while getting great fuel economy and dependability -- and spend $50K on it... I think the Americans are doing one hell fo a job.
Well if it's V8's that the US makers "Do best" then why is there a sufficient lack of V8 vehicles on the market? There is the Mustang GT/Cobra, Crown Victoria and Corvette but other than that no passenger car offers a V8 to the best of my knowledge. And while there is no denying V8's sound nice in the low-range they also are beginning to fall behind the Turbo'd 4's and 6's from Japan. Pretty much all Ford and GM have is FWD rubbish (Impala, Cavalier, Malibu, Taurus/Sable, Grand AM, Grand Prix) with Lousy 4's or Gutless Pushrod V6's (Even though the 3.8 is REASONABLY good) or SUV's and Pickups- that while they are what the market wants are still by no means any good (Except for Jeep, who have been in this business forever anyway). Saying the cars are made like this for the American market is a cop-out-
Perhaps Ford and GM should take a leaf out of thier Australian counterparts books. ie the Ford Falcon- Nicely equipped, stylish, Taurus sized RWD Sedan or Station Wagon with a Gutsy I6 or Triton and BOSS V8 options (and also a Turbo I6) all for around the wages of the average Middle Class family- THAT is the type of car America was producing a long time ago- that is what an American car is and should by all means be.
The Firebird/Camaro are by far a VERY average car when shown the corners- they tend to slide a little too much ESPECIALLY when compared to the IRS-equipped Corvette (When fitted with decent tyres)- However taking the IRS from a Corvette and putting it in a Camaro is a pretty common thing Stateside or so I hear.
Putting controls facing the driver are smart when the car is predominantly sold as an RHD or LHD car- but is murder when you convert the steering wheel to the other side of the car- as my friend learnt when he converted a Camaro Z28 to RHD. I was thinking more of the VW Passat and Golf when I speak of ergonomics- and I'm sure Zackie would agree here- Big stereo buttons, Big Climate Control buttons, seat heaters on the dash (As opposed to by the seat and a user-freindly stereo and when in manual- an easy to reach gear lever- all while remaining so simple to operate
Jay2002WS6
08-18-2003, 10:36 AM
Well if it's V8's that the US makers "Do best" then why is there a sufficient lack of V8 vehicles on the market? There is the Mustang GT/Cobra, Crown Victoria and Corvette but other than that no passenger car offers a V8 to the best of my knowledge. And while there is no denying V8's sound nice in the low-range they also are beginning to fall behind the Turbo'd 4's and 6's from Japan. Pretty much all Ford and GM have is FWD rubbish (Impala, Cavalier, Malibu, Taurus/Sable, Grand AM, Grand Prix) with Lousy 4's or Gutless Pushrod V6's (Even though the 3.8 is REASONABLY good) or SUV's and Pickups- that while they are what the market wants are still by no means any good (Except for Jeep, who have been in this business forever anyway). Saying the cars are made like this for the American market is a cop-out-
American V8 passenger cars: Cadillac STS, Cadillac DTS, Chevrolet Corvette, Mustang GT, Mach1, Cobra, Crown Vic -- not entirely sure about Chrysler... Cars from GM that are soon to be V8's are: XLR, CTS-V, GTO, SSR (although I hate it), Impala, and Monte Carlo - and the Bonneville is also talked about. Obviously, many trucks and SUVs are V8's or powerful I-6's as well.
I agree that there are many cars that are currently sub-par (you are right for the most part, except for the Malibu). However, where this argument started (or so I thought) was on the performance cars... The Corvette, Mustang SVT Cobra, and Viper SRT-10 are anything BUT sub-par.
As far as the pick-ups sucking... umm... where the hell did that idea come form? :screwy: And Jeeps are nice, but they still have a Chrysler powertrain... there is a reason Chrysler's warranty lasts until 70,000 miles... that is precisely when their transmission takes a shit on them. (My experience with a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, and what the dealer told me about it when taken in for service.)
Perhaps Ford and GM should take a leaf out of thier Australian counterparts books.
We are. Welcome the Pontiac GTO (aka Holden Monaro) this fall.
Ford Falcon- Nicely equipped, stylish, Taurus sized RWD Sedan or Station Wagon with a Gutsy I6 or Triton and BOSS V8 options (and also a Turbo I6) all for around the wages of the average Middle Class family- THAT is the type of car America was producing a long time ago- that is what an American car is and should by all means be.
It seems like you are implying a car must be RWD in order to be "good" "gutsy" or "fun"... and the price of American cars does indeed need to receed (3 rhymes in a row!) but it is difficult when UAW production labor costs the automakers $24 per hour.
The Firebird/Camaro are by far a VERY average car when shown the corners- they tend to slide a little too much ESPECIALLY when compared to the IRS-equipped Corvette (When fitted with decent tyres)- However taking the IRS from a Corvette and putting it in a Camaro is a pretty common thing Stateside or so I hear.
Obviously the IRS in the Corvette is better. Ripping the IRS from a Vette and installing it in an f-body is something I definitely want to do... but to the best of my knowledge is not a common application at all. You are still very incorrect if you think the f-body's handling is "average."
Putting controls facing the driver are smart when the car is predominantly sold as an RHD or LHD car- but is murder when you convert the steering wheel to the other side of the car- as my friend learnt when he converted a Camaro Z28 to RHD. I was thinking more of the VW Passat and Golf when I speak of ergonomics- and I'm sure Zackie would agree here- Big stereo buttons, Big Climate Control buttons, seat heaters on the dash (As opposed to by the seat and a user-freindly stereo and when in manual- an easy to reach gear lever- all while remaining so simple to operate
Never thought about the RHD/LHD conversion being the reason for the flat-faced console. Obviously that is a very good point indeed.
"American markets" is far from a cop-out when discussing the engineering of our performance cars. The large displacement, pushrod V8's and V10's (in the case of the Viper) are a throwback to the muscle car days - to our heritage. It's the throaty growl and low-end torque we crave. That's exactly what the "low-tech" Corvette and Viper deliver. They cost less, get better fuel economy, and perform on par with the world's greatest... that is something you can't deny.
American V8 passenger cars: Cadillac STS, Cadillac DTS, Chevrolet Corvette, Mustang GT, Mach1, Cobra, Crown Vic -- not entirely sure about Chrysler... Cars from GM that are soon to be V8's are: XLR, CTS-V, GTO, SSR (although I hate it), Impala, and Monte Carlo - and the Bonneville is also talked about. Obviously, many trucks and SUVs are V8's or powerful I-6's as well.
I agree that there are many cars that are currently sub-par (you are right for the most part, except for the Malibu). However, where this argument started (or so I thought) was on the performance cars... The Corvette, Mustang SVT Cobra, and Viper SRT-10 are anything BUT sub-par.
As far as the pick-ups sucking... umm... where the hell did that idea come form? :screwy: And Jeeps are nice, but they still have a Chrysler powertrain... there is a reason Chrysler's warranty lasts until 70,000 miles... that is precisely when their transmission takes a shit on them. (My experience with a 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, and what the dealer told me about it when taken in for service.)
Perhaps Ford and GM should take a leaf out of thier Australian counterparts books.
We are. Welcome the Pontiac GTO (aka Holden Monaro) this fall.
Ford Falcon- Nicely equipped, stylish, Taurus sized RWD Sedan or Station Wagon with a Gutsy I6 or Triton and BOSS V8 options (and also a Turbo I6) all for around the wages of the average Middle Class family- THAT is the type of car America was producing a long time ago- that is what an American car is and should by all means be.
It seems like you are implying a car must be RWD in order to be "good" "gutsy" or "fun"... and the price of American cars does indeed need to receed (3 rhymes in a row!) but it is difficult when UAW production labor costs the automakers $24 per hour.
The Firebird/Camaro are by far a VERY average car when shown the corners- they tend to slide a little too much ESPECIALLY when compared to the IRS-equipped Corvette (When fitted with decent tyres)- However taking the IRS from a Corvette and putting it in a Camaro is a pretty common thing Stateside or so I hear.
Obviously the IRS in the Corvette is better. Ripping the IRS from a Vette and installing it in an f-body is something I definitely want to do... but to the best of my knowledge is not a common application at all. You are still very incorrect if you think the f-body's handling is "average."
Putting controls facing the driver are smart when the car is predominantly sold as an RHD or LHD car- but is murder when you convert the steering wheel to the other side of the car- as my friend learnt when he converted a Camaro Z28 to RHD. I was thinking more of the VW Passat and Golf when I speak of ergonomics- and I'm sure Zackie would agree here- Big stereo buttons, Big Climate Control buttons, seat heaters on the dash (As opposed to by the seat and a user-freindly stereo and when in manual- an easy to reach gear lever- all while remaining so simple to operate
Never thought about the RHD/LHD conversion being the reason for the flat-faced console. Obviously that is a very good point indeed.
"American markets" is far from a cop-out when discussing the engineering of our performance cars. The large displacement, pushrod V8's and V10's (in the case of the Viper) are a throwback to the muscle car days - to our heritage. It's the throaty growl and low-end torque we crave. That's exactly what the "low-tech" Corvette and Viper deliver. They cost less, get better fuel economy, and perform on par with the world's greatest... that is something you can't deny.
Jimster
08-19-2003, 03:47 AM
No denying that the ZO6 and Viper are nice cars- but the Cobra is iffy- IRS yes, DOHC yes, Supercharged yes- but feels less of a car than it's rivals- what is the attraction of the Malibu (I've yet to find one thing to praise about it) the replacement looks allright- but I've yet to drive it so.........
I do find F Body handling iffy and if the handling were better I'd be driving one now for sure- the rear end occasionally doesn't know what it's doing and the car is insecure on the slightest touch of gravel (as are a lot of RWD Cars- but to to the extent of the F Body) definitely the handling is not yet at BMW or 350Z level.
Pickup trucks don't really suck (Actually they do I guess) the Dodge Ram is an excellent pick-up- and they serve the purpose of farm work great- but too many blokes are buying them as an extension to thier errrr...............Ego- which I guess makes me hate them all the more.
I do find F Body handling iffy and if the handling were better I'd be driving one now for sure- the rear end occasionally doesn't know what it's doing and the car is insecure on the slightest touch of gravel (as are a lot of RWD Cars- but to to the extent of the F Body) definitely the handling is not yet at BMW or 350Z level.
Pickup trucks don't really suck (Actually they do I guess) the Dodge Ram is an excellent pick-up- and they serve the purpose of farm work great- but too many blokes are buying them as an extension to thier errrr...............Ego- which I guess makes me hate them all the more.
carkid22
08-19-2003, 06:07 PM
*CARS I HATE*
New VW Beetle
Hummer H2
chevy malibu
thats all i can think of right now. :)
New VW Beetle
Hummer H2
chevy malibu
thats all i can think of right now. :)
carkid22
08-19-2003, 06:08 PM
oh and of course the aztek.
PWMAN
08-19-2003, 08:05 PM
oh and of course the aztek.
LOL, I agree with you but it might start a flame war. This was argued several times before, most people stating that it's ugly of course.
LOL, I agree with you but it might start a flame war. This was argued several times before, most people stating that it's ugly of course.
carkid22
08-19-2003, 10:33 PM
LOL, I agree with you but it might start a flame war. This was argued several times before, most people stating that it's ugly of course.
last thing i want is a flame war :evillol:
last thing i want is a flame war :evillol:
Jay2002WS6
08-20-2003, 08:39 AM
No denying that the ZO6 and Viper are nice cars- but the Cobra is iffy- IRS yes, DOHC yes, Supercharged yes- but feels less of a car than it's rivals- what is the attraction of the Malibu (I've yet to find one thing to praise about it) the replacement looks allright- but I've yet to drive it so.........
The Cobra is also less expensive than its rivals. You also site "DOHC" as a reason for it being a good car... I'm sorry, I just can't use DOHC as a reason that I think a car is good. It's just a different way of going about it.
As for the Malibu...
The reason why i think the Monte Carlo and Impala are sub-par is largely due to how under-powered they are. The 3.4 L V6 is too weak for cars like that... but it isn't for the Malibu :) The little thing scoots along pretty well. It's a quick, simple, small car. That's all it is trying to be, and I think it succeeds.
I do find F Body handling iffy and if the handling were better I'd be driving one now for sure- the rear end occasionally doesn't know what it's doing and the car is insecure on the slightest touch of gravel (as are a lot of RWD Cars- but to to the extent of the F Body) definitely the handling is not yet at BMW or 350Z level.
Around a road course, I would still put money on the LS1 f-body... because of its ability to grab MOUNTAINS of torque to accelerate off the turns.
As the radius of the turns decreased, and the track got tighter and tighter, the 350Z would likely prove to come out on top. But on your average road course, I would still think the LS1 f-bods would reign supreme.
Pickup trucks don't really suck (Actually they do I guess) the Dodge Ram is an excellent pick-up- and they serve the purpose of farm work great- but too many blokes are buying them as an extension to thier errrr...............Ego- which I guess makes me hate them all the more.
I HATE it when people buy anything to enlarge their... ego.
The Cobra is also less expensive than its rivals. You also site "DOHC" as a reason for it being a good car... I'm sorry, I just can't use DOHC as a reason that I think a car is good. It's just a different way of going about it.
As for the Malibu...
The reason why i think the Monte Carlo and Impala are sub-par is largely due to how under-powered they are. The 3.4 L V6 is too weak for cars like that... but it isn't for the Malibu :) The little thing scoots along pretty well. It's a quick, simple, small car. That's all it is trying to be, and I think it succeeds.
I do find F Body handling iffy and if the handling were better I'd be driving one now for sure- the rear end occasionally doesn't know what it's doing and the car is insecure on the slightest touch of gravel (as are a lot of RWD Cars- but to to the extent of the F Body) definitely the handling is not yet at BMW or 350Z level.
Around a road course, I would still put money on the LS1 f-body... because of its ability to grab MOUNTAINS of torque to accelerate off the turns.
As the radius of the turns decreased, and the track got tighter and tighter, the 350Z would likely prove to come out on top. But on your average road course, I would still think the LS1 f-bods would reign supreme.
Pickup trucks don't really suck (Actually they do I guess) the Dodge Ram is an excellent pick-up- and they serve the purpose of farm work great- but too many blokes are buying them as an extension to thier errrr...............Ego- which I guess makes me hate them all the more.
I HATE it when people buy anything to enlarge their... ego.
Jimster
08-21-2003, 01:24 AM
The Cobra is also less expensive than its rivals. You also site "DOHC" as a reason for it being a good car... I'm sorry, I just can't use DOHC as a reason that I think a car is good. It's just a different way of going about it.
As for the Malibu...
The reason why i think the Monte Carlo and Impala are sub-par is largely due to how under-powered they are. The 3.4 L V6 is too weak for cars like that... but it isn't for the Malibu :) The little thing scoots along pretty well. It's a quick, simple, small car. That's all it is trying to be, and I think it succeeds.
Around a road course, I would still put money on the LS1 f-body... because of its ability to grab MOUNTAINS of torque to accelerate off the turns.
As the radius of the turns decreased, and the track got tighter and tighter, the 350Z would likely prove to come out on top. But on your average road course, I would still think the LS1 f-bods would reign supreme.
I HATE it when people buy anything to enlarge their... ego.
:eek: you consider the Malibu to be small :eek: the thing slots between the Vectra and Omega- by no means small :icon16:
As for the Malibu...
The reason why i think the Monte Carlo and Impala are sub-par is largely due to how under-powered they are. The 3.4 L V6 is too weak for cars like that... but it isn't for the Malibu :) The little thing scoots along pretty well. It's a quick, simple, small car. That's all it is trying to be, and I think it succeeds.
Around a road course, I would still put money on the LS1 f-body... because of its ability to grab MOUNTAINS of torque to accelerate off the turns.
As the radius of the turns decreased, and the track got tighter and tighter, the 350Z would likely prove to come out on top. But on your average road course, I would still think the LS1 f-bods would reign supreme.
I HATE it when people buy anything to enlarge their... ego.
:eek: you consider the Malibu to be small :eek: the thing slots between the Vectra and Omega- by no means small :icon16:
carkid22
08-21-2003, 07:00 AM
isn't the malibu about the size of a camry or accord? i don't consider that small.
Neutrino
08-21-2003, 07:20 AM
:eek: you consider the Malibu to be small :eek: the thing slots between the Vectra and Omega- by no means small :icon16:
yeah by american standards is not that big.....you should see my face when i rented once an intrepid and i parked by a passat(big sedan by euro standard).....it was dwarfing it
of couse big cars don't bother me....they make good family vehicles withouth trying to kill the rest of us like the big ass SUV
yeah by american standards is not that big.....you should see my face when i rented once an intrepid and i parked by a passat(big sedan by euro standard).....it was dwarfing it
of couse big cars don't bother me....they make good family vehicles withouth trying to kill the rest of us like the big ass SUV
Jay2002WS6
08-21-2003, 11:21 AM
:eek: you consider the Malibu to be small :eek: the thing slots between the Vectra and Omega- by no means small :icon16:
By American standards it definitely falls into the "small car" category... it is the same size as the Olds Alero and Pontiac Grand Am...
It's not a compact car -- like a Neon or Sunfire. It's a small, mid-size car. The Monte Carlo and Impala are both quite a bit larger...
Even if you would consider it to be a "big" car, it is still much peppier than the other larger cars because it uses the same engine.
By American standards it definitely falls into the "small car" category... it is the same size as the Olds Alero and Pontiac Grand Am...
It's not a compact car -- like a Neon or Sunfire. It's a small, mid-size car. The Monte Carlo and Impala are both quite a bit larger...
Even if you would consider it to be a "big" car, it is still much peppier than the other larger cars because it uses the same engine.
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