how can i beat a 98 v8 mustang

what mods should i get to be able to keep up and beat this car. A friend of mine always wants to race. I kno whe will beat me now but is there anything i can do to beat it. I have a 97 v6 firebird with a CAI.

Unless you get forced induction and/or a heafty shot of nitrous, there isn't much you can do.

are u sure because looking at the specs my fire bird only has 25 less hp. the torque is 225 to the 290. the mustang weighs 3,278 and the firebird weighs 3,311. everything is pretty close except the torque and u are sying there is nothing i can do but get forced induction or a shot of nitrous???????????????????????? i cant believ that

There are a few things you can do..... Ramair, custom chip, exhaust, intake work, head work. But it will probley take a few of thease things to cut about a sec off your 1/4 mile time because thats what you will need to do to keep up with the Stang. The easy way.......just get a 75hp shot of the funny stuff. And torque has alot to do with getting the car moving thats why the GT will go 0 to 60 in 6.4 sec and the V-6 Firebird in 7 somthing. Also gearing plays a roll, GT is probley gear'd lower than the Bird that helps in the 0 to 60 area. But all in all just get the bottle it's the cheapest way....... :icon16:

I agree about gears - going with at least a 3.73 setup or 4.10 will make a dramatic improvement even for a stock car. I wouldn't go over 3.73 if its an auto, and if it is, then you have to start looking at a high stall torque converter that would allow you to launch the car at anywhere from 2500-3500 RPM.

It IS possible to achieve what you want, but it will cost you lots of $$$. Doing nitro would be the cheapest route.

its a 5speed. Which gearing should i switch to and how do i do this?

how much of gain would i see with the gear switch?

When you go with a numerically higher gear ratio you are literally multiplying your engines torque - it is an actual equation. Think of it this way: numerically higher gears enable your engine to produce its peak power sooner.

The amount of gain you will notice will depend on how low your gearing currently is. Just to give you an idea, my 4-speed automatic Z28 is running 2.93 gears and pulls high 13's consistently on the street (no launch or even off-the-bat flooring required). My cars second gear ends just before the 1/4 mile finishes. For everyone else, they're either running out third gear at the finish or just shifting it into fourth.

If I swapped out my 2.93's for a 3.73 my car would be shifting into fourth gear at the finish instead of third. My car would be getting up to its "old" speed SOONER (thus have time left over to go FASTER!). My Z28 would be looking at almost a full second drop in ET.

However, my top speed of over 160 Mph would come down significantly, my fuel economy would get worse, and there would now be more stress being put on my rear end and tranny.

I'd go to a well know shop that does rear axle's and ask them for advice (this isn't a mod I would try to do myself).

my gears are stock. What are they now and what are some possible changes? how much do they cost?

Look at the options sticker inside your glove box and check for one of these codes:

GEAR RATIOS

GM1 = 2.59
GU2 = 2.73
GW9 = 2.93
G44 = 3.07
GU4 = 3.08
GU5 = 3.23
GU6 = 3.42
GM3 = 3.45

You might have 3.08's. Like I said going with a 3.73 would be a good start (maybe 4.10 if you had the 6-speed). You would have to go to a shop to find out how much it would cost - I know for my car it would be over a grand (Canadian $$$) easy, but the place I went to is very reputable and makes sure all the bearings are replaced, etc...

Shop around.

I agree 3.73 gears are the way to go. Another mod he needs is exhaust, that would help a lot. Chipped ECU is good improvement too. Either VENOM or JET chips are good. I think JET is better, but thats my personal opinion.
How much in american $ is 1000 canadian $?

$1000 CAD is around $650-$700 USD. That may sound like a lot for gears, but we pay 15% sales tax up here (in Ontario anyways). Gears alone I could get for about $300-$350 USD, a bit more for bearings, and labour would be another few hundred bucks. You slap 15% on top of that and in my face and you've got a bill for well over $1000 CAD.

I know this must sound brutal (and it IS!), but you appreciate it anytime you go to the hospital or doctor and never have to see or deal with a bill.

im going to check to see what gears i have. Thanx for the info

Yes, 3.73 ratio is the way to go. That is a 41 tooth ring gear and a 11 tooth pinion. DVS LT1, that is way too much for gears. I have seen them cost around $200 for his rear-end. If you decide to do this, you might as well buy a aluminum spool. That way you will have posi. You will get an awsome launch off the line without alot of wheel spin. You can find spools for around $140.

I wouldn't race him just yet tho, you can buy a 80 series flowmaster muffler. This muffler is proven to be the best for Firebirds and Camaros. I have about 3 used ones that will fit up to your firebird that are in very good shape. Or a ravin #RA554259 muffler.

Look into weight reductions. Things you can do yourself. Take your spare tire out. That is a good 30lbs. Make sure you gas tank is close to Empty. I would say 1/8 of a tank. Windshield Washing Fluid Tank, it can be removed for an hour can't it? flyguy86, do you have a K&N filter with your Cold Air Induction?

If you do these mods. i see you gaining 12 HP which makes you 13HP less than your buddy. Lossing around 100lbs. Your torque will go way up if you make the gear change and muffler mod.

You should be very close to keeping up with him if you do this. BTW, is his a 5 speed?

Originally posted by 99' Z-28
DVS LT1, that is way too much for gears. I have seen them cost around $200 for his rear-end. If you decide to do this, you might as well buy a aluminum spool. That way you will have posi.

I know thats steep for my gears, and I should hope it would be way cheaper for a V6 F-body - but like I said this was a price I got from a well known rear end shop in the GTA called Stingray Auto Tech. I could easily get a buddy of mine who is a mechanic at a local Chevy dealership to install gears for me on a weekend, or get the service manager and a local Pontiac dealership(whose a client of mine) to have it done for me as well for less.

But whats this about a spool? I've heard of this before and don't get what you said about posi? My differential's posi clutch is actually worn out right now, and I'm debating whether to get an aftermarket performance replacement that will accomodate my stock 2.93 gears - or get a new one along with new 3.73 gears. But are you saying these would NOT give me posi traction??? I "had" that originally, why wouldn't I get it from a new differential (or what?). A 3500 high stall torque converter is another thing on my to-get list.

And hell ya buddy is going to need a lot more than gears to beat out a V8 Mustang - I just think gears is as good a place to start cause on its own it would probably seem to make the most noticable difference for a stock motor.

Originally posted by 99' Z-28
I wouldn't race him just yet tho, you can buy a 80 series flowmaster muffler. This muffler is proven to be the best for Firebirds and Camaros.

I've got that same one myself - sounds absolutely badass on my LT1 with Edelbrock headers.

Eh 99' Z-28, you're probably going to laugh, but my flowmaster has 3" outlet pipes that condense to 2 1/4" (!?!) to accomodate my 2 1/4" stock Z28 rectangular exhaust tips. :tongue: I know it sounds crazy - literally - you can tell the exhaust is backing up cause the entire muffler and pipes fucking shake and rattle like crazy. But I really dig the sleeper effect my Z28 has. Besides the 17" ZR-1/SS style rims my car looks completely stock, and I've made believers out of quite a few C5 Vette's, Z-06's, and LS1 F-Bodies.

How much you figure I would gain by pulling those pipes off and going with 3" out all the way??

Yea i have a K&n filter with my CAI. should i get the exhaust first then the gears or the other way around?

But whats this about a spool? I've heard of this before and don't get what you said about posi? My differential's posi clutch is actually worn out right now, and I'm debating whether to get an aftermarket performance replacement that will accomodate my stock 2.93 gears - or get a new one along with new 3.73 gears. But are you saying these would NOT give me posi traction??? I "had" that originally, why wouldn't I get it from a new differential (or what?). A 3500 high stall torque converter is another thing on my to-get list.

Well, a spool keeps the rear wheels spinning at the same rate or same time. Stock Camaro's or your mustangs don't have this, they have a spider gear which lets the right rear wheel only spin when stoped, kind of like limited slip diferential. Alot of racers and people who have their cars hoped up replace their rear-end housing with a ford 9 inch. There really isn't anything wrong with this. I did it just because you have more gear selections. You can put the 3.73 ration gears in, I'm not sure if this is an open gear of posi gear. When i said spool, you can buy spool kits and make it work with any gear ratio.
I've got that same one myself - sounds absolutely badass on my LT1 with Edelbrock headers.
Yes, flowmasters 80 series are real badass. I have the neighbors complaining about the noise all the time. When i drive by a police, i must let of the gas.
How much you figure I would gain by pulling those pipes off and going with 3" out all the way??
You are backing up too much back pressure downsizing your pipes like that. Thats a pretty big drop in piping. If i were you, i would have it done in 3inch pipe like you said and put 3.5inch tips on. You are lossing at the most 7hp with what you got, but if you open it up to 3inch you will the the true awsome sound of the 80 series and get the full horsepower effect. I say 3.5inch tips because i think 3 inch will look kind of small. 3.5inch and 4inch tips will give your exhaust a real deep ass tone that will shake all around areas and scare the 5.0 and 4.6 mustang boyz. :wink:

Should i go cat back or full exhaust? is there a difference in preformance

what exhaust would u reccomend for a 3.8 v6? I wan looking at the flowmaster and they really dont have anythjign for the v6. The 80 series says its for the v8s only.

Should i go cat back or full exhaust? is there a difference in preformance
I don't think there is much of a power gain with a Cat-Back. Your muffler determines how much power you gain or lose. Don't waist your money on a Cat-Back unless your existing exhaust piping is in bad shape. You could buy a High Flow Converter as well.
I would go with just a muffler mod. A Z-33 Class RA554259 Ravin Muffler will probably be best for your V-6 Firebird. You can use an 80 series, but the 80 series makes more power with the V-8's than the V-6's.

Originally posted by 99' Z-28

A Z-33 Class RA554259 Ravin Muffler will probably be best for your V-6 Firebird.

Yes, RAVIN mufflers arw awsome but I don't know how good they'll sound on a V6. I know they are freakin loud with 2.5'' pipe on 350 camaro's.

With all the exhaust choices which one should i get? When i order does it come with everything i need or do i need to buy additional shit?

I don't think RAVIN makes exhaust systems, just mufflers. You have to go to like MIDAS or MEINEKE to have it custom put on. $$$

with labor how much you think it will cost all together?

Well how much of your exhaust system do you want done? Just the muffler back? That will be like 200-300 dollars.

I believe Midas might carry that Ravin Muffler. They don't make complete exhaust systems, but you don't need a complete exhaust system. Pick you up one of those mufflers i told you about RA554259 and 3.5 inch tips.
They sound pretty good on a V-6. I have installed one on my sisters b/f Camaro and sounds awsome.

The Muffler costs $82 and some change.
with labor how much you think it will cost all together?
Don't worry about finding hangers and stuff for your muffler. It will cost you about $150 to have your OEM muffler and the Ravin Muffler installed. I would as first tho. If i were you, don't take it to Midas or Meineke to have it done. They will prolly charge you too much. Just a regular muffler shop is fine.

If i were doing it i would charge $110. $150 is a rough estimate.
-Good luck with what you decide to do.

thanks for the info i will go this week and have that done. How much of a gain do u think i will get? Should i consider gearing next?

Do not use a spool on a street car please you will only break some thing.....use a locker system because when you make a turn the rear wheels turn at differant speeds and useing a spool will only break an axle.

Originally posted by Jays_sho
Do not use a spool on a street car please you will only break some thing.....use a locker system because when you make a turn the rear wheels turn at differant speeds and useing a spool will only break an axle.

Oh yeah I wanted to say that and forgot. Whoever told you to use a spool to get traction is a moron. Garaunteed to break axle in less than 3 days on a daily driver. Lockers can also break axles though, if you get an aggressive one like detroit or trac lok. Auburn make good limited slips, but you have to get the pro series not just the high performance. I used the hi performance cuz thats all they make for mine, it wore out in 4 years. I'm sure the pro is much better.

Could'nt have said it any better.

:bigthumb:

Whoever told you to use a spool to get traction is a moron.
Thanks Buddy...:bigthumb:
Garaunteed to break axle in less than 3 days on a daily driver. Bull Shit, i have had mine in my Camaro for a year now and had no problems. With as much HP as i'm pushing, i would be the one to break an axle before anyone else and it hasn't happen yet.
How much of a gain do u think i will get?
Up to a 12HP gain. Make sure you use 3 or 3.5inch tips.

:bs: :iamwithst

''they have a spider gear which lets the right rear wheel only spin when stoped, kind of like limited slip diferential''

This is a direct quote from 99 Z28. From this post I am led to the conclusion that he knows jack shit about differentials.

''they have a spider gear which lets the right rear wheel only spin when stoped, kind of like limited slip diferential''
Go back a couple of posts.....That is exactly what i said.
This is a direct quote from 99 Z28. From this post I am led to the conclusion that he knows jack shit about differentials.
I'll stay cool, i'm cool. I'll just let the moderators take care of that quote.
Stock Camaro's or your mustangs don't have this, they have a spider gear which lets the right rear wheel only spin when stoped, kind of like limited slip diferential.
This is one of my quotes before you made yours. So looks as if i know something. So PWMAN look before you make an indirect statement against me next time buddy. :loser:

I know thats exactly what you said a couple posts back, hence I said ''this is a direct quote from 99' Z28''. I just didn't use the quote thing where it says quote from 99 Z28.

So lets break down what you said here, ''they have a spider gear which lets the right rear wheel only spin when stoped, kind of like limited slip differential''.
So why do spider gears let only the right tire spin is my question? Whichever one whether left or right will spin it depends on which has less traction. And how is that like a limited slip? A LSD will not let one side spin and the other not, thats what it's for.

So where did you go 99' Z28?

So where did you go 99' Z28?
I didn't go anywere. I just figured that flyguy86 didn't have anymore questions and he is working on his firebird right now. Also i didn't post anything because i don't need anyone rubbing shit into my face like you would like to.:rolleyes:

I'm not rubbing shit in your face I'm just wondering how you think these things and I'm trying to correct you.

yea i have been woring on my firebird. im going to order a ravin muffler this weekend and hopefully have it on next week. Would changing the gears be the next step for me??

What all do you have done? Do you have like CAI? Chipped ECU? JET chips will chip your ECU, costs like 300 bucks and gets you like 20 or so HP. I don't know what all they make for the V6's, but gear change to 3.73's is a good idea for any firebird no matter what engine. I don't know if you having any problems with traction, but an LSD might be a good idea too. DO NOT get a locker or a spool. Try an Auburn Pro series limited slip, jegs's or summit should probably have them.

do you have any websites where i could find those. A chip will give 20 hp?? how does it work?

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=JET%2D68003

I don't think this is exactly what I was talking about, but it gives more HP. They don't make a chip for your car. What a chip is is you send in your ECU and they change some stuff that gives you more power, they send it back and you put it back on. Takes like 15 minutes on your part, but your car is down a week while they have your ECU.

when i go in for my exhaust what size tips should i get?

1/4'' bigger than whatever pipe they use. Any more and it looks stupid. They will probably use 2.25'', so get 2.5'' tips.

2.5'' tips? thats way too small. can someone say severe backpressure please?????? Go with 2.5inlet 3.5inch tips. As for muffler inlet size, i would get 2.5 inlet and out

Originally posted by 99' Z-28
2.5'' tips? thats way too small. can someone say severe backpressure please?????? Go with 2.5inlet 3.5inch tips. As for muffler inlet size, i would get 2.5 inlet and out

Dude you are so retarded. You don't know jack about cars, you must be like a 13 year old internet racer or something.
If the rest of the exhaust is 2.5", why would a 2.5'' tip be restrictive?
Tips are for looks, not performance.
If you really work for any exhaust company you should be fired IMMEDIATELY, as you know nothing about exhaust. I guess the only thing you know how to do is install it.
And it's only a freakin V6 for crying out loud, 2.25'' pipe wouldn't be restrictive.
You know what the stock exhaust was on my 77 Chrysler Newport? First I'll tell you it's a 7.2L big block V8. It was single 2.25'' with catalytic converter and of course restrictive stock muffler. Now I changed that to dual 2.25'' with no cats, and flowmaster mufflers. And if dual 2.25'' exhaust is good enough to flow 7.2L, single 2.5'' is plenty for a 3.8L.

ok so put the 2.5 inch tips on? Any kind of tip style do u reccomend?

Well if you get 2.5'' exhaust, the most common is a 3'' tip-just for looks of course, no performance is gained. Just any straight through tip will work fine.
My personal opinion, I think tips look crappy on any car-makes it look like cheap crap.

I was just reading through this thread, and thought I should throw in my thoughts. First, pay no attention to '99 Z-28, he's mistaken on many things. Second, listen to PWMAN. Anyway, use whatever tips you wish, as they have no effect, and try to get an eaton LSD because you can rebuild them. Many others, including Auburn you can't.

PWMAN, i'm not a retard. do you know how stipid 2.5 inch tips will look out the back of a car like that? OMG besides you don't know how to check backpressure so i'm not sure if you even know what your talking about.
Dude you are so retarded. You don't know jack about cars, you must be like a 13 year old internet racer or something.
Ouch....
If you really work for any exhaust company you should be fired IMMEDIATELY, as you know nothing about exhaust. I guess the only thing you know how to do is install it.
Oh goodness. PWMAN, you might want to show some respect here of af. Those two quotes are very low blows that i think should not be tolorated. We will see what happens.

You see 99 Z28, another person has chimed in saying you don't know what you're talking about. If you think some exhaust tips are going to create backpressure, then yes I'm going to think you are a retard. Tips are for looks only, and I've seen countless F-bodies with 2.5'' tips. 3'' tips look stupid IMO, but thats just MO so it's not waht matters. It's his car, do whatever.

Originally posted by 99' Z-28
PWMAN, i'm not a retard. do you know how stipid 2.5 inch tips will look out the back of a car like that? Those two quotes are very low blows that i think should not be tolorated. We will see what happens.
That first part is up for debate...
The part about 2.5'' tips is YOUR OPINION
And nothing is going to happen because any moderator that reads the BS you're posting is just going to laugh at you.

And nothing is going to happen because any moderator that reads the BS you're posting is just going to laugh at you.
Maybe not, they may see my point and think that what you said was a little too far. We are trying to help this kid out, not argue situations. I do know for a fact that tip size will change the tone of the exhaust. 2.5inch tips will make the car have more of a buzz, 3.5 inch tips will deepen the tone. A firebird is pretty big in the back. 2.5in tips would look fine on a mustang, but we are talking about a bigger car. Its simple, bigger looks and sounds better.

Originally posted by 99' Z-28

I do know for a fact that tip size will change the tone of the exhaust. 2.5inch tips will make the car have more of a buzz, 3.5 inch tips will deepen the tone. A firebird is pretty big in the back. 2.5in tips would look fine on a mustang,

Wow you finally said something true!
But mustangs 99% of the time have 2.25'' exhaust exits. They usually don't use tips at all, just pipe. 2.5'' is not small, whats stock like 2''? 2.25 at best, but there is a BIG difference between 2.25 and 2.5.

But mustangs 99% of the time have 2.25'' exhaust exits.
well, the V-6 mustangs have 2.25'' and the GT's have 2.5''
Have you ever heard a V-6 Mustang with 2.25 tubing through out? I have and it sounds like a bee. 2.5 won't to much to help that sound. we are only talking about 1/4 of an inch difference.

Originally posted by 99' Z-28

well, the V-6 mustangs have 2.25'' and the GT's have 2.5''
Have you ever heard a V-6 Mustang with 2.25 tubing through out? I have and it sounds like a bee. 2.5 won't to much to help that sound. we are only talking about 1/4 of an inch difference.

The V6 is going to sound like a bee no matter what you do. 1/4 inch is a big difference in exhaust.
For example, my daytona has 2.25'' exhaust stock. I've heard you get a 20 HP gain by going to 2.5'' with a catco high flow cat and dynomax super turbo muffler. You get a 25 HP gain by going to 3'' with the same stuff. Now I understand that changing the stock muffler and cat is where most of the power is coming from, but only a 5 HP difference between 2.5'' and 3''? It's just a simple answer, the less displacement you have the less you exhaust has to be because you don't flow as much air. My Daytona is turbo, so it probably flows as much exhaust as that V6 in the firebird.
The biggest difference for this V6 TA from going from 2.25'' to 2.5'', is if you get mandrel bent tubing. By staying a constant 2.5'', it really makes a difference. Even though the stock exaust might be 2.25'', it shrinks to probably 2'' around tight turns.

The V6 is going to sound like a bee no matter what you do.
are you talking about the mustang v-6 or all v-6's?
For example, my daytona has 2.25'' exhaust stock. I've heard you get a 20 HP gain by going to 2.5'' with a catco high flow cat and dynomax super turbo muffler. You get a 25 HP gain by going to 3'' with the same stuff.
Thats alot of damn HP gain by going to that much bigger exhaust tubing. I can see you getting that much maybe with a 350-454 V-8 but sure the hell not with a 4cylender or 6.

Well I don't want to say ALL V6's because that would just be untrue. But the mustang and firebird V6's will sound like a bee no matter what you do.
It was dyno proven that a 2.5'' exhaust system with that stuff I said gives a 20 HP gain. It was 15 to the wheels. 3'' gave 20 to the wheels. You have to remember that turbo vehicles pump out so much more exhaust than N/A cars. And I heard just replacing the stock cat on my car with a test pipe adds 10 HP. The high flow cat gives a 3-5 HP gain over stock.