Windstar fuel pressure problem.

Hi Newbie here.
I searched through this form and others and though I have found several similar problems to mine I have yet to find someone posting a solution that worked.
I hope to be the 1st.

I recently bought a 2000 Windsar and the previous owner said he had it parked for 8 months without starting it.
Before that he had a new alternator put in and since the battery was dead when I got there I thought that was the problem.
When I hooked it up to my van and it turned over nicely just did not start.
I put some fuel in the throttle and it started right away and ran good for 2 seconds and does that when ever I do that for inspiration ;-)), then I checked all the fuses, fine, and swapped the fuel module with one for the rear wiper which works fine, the old one clicked like it was suppose to but I swapped it to be sure.

I took it home put a new battery used a plug tester to test for spark, which was all good, and then checked the Schrader valve and found little to no pressure.
I listened for the fuel pump and it was there.
I swapped the fuel pump with a new Made in China one that came with a wrong wiring harness. It is totally backwards?? ( how can you get that wrong???) I messed with the provided harness and got the pump to work but the gas gauge no longer did, sooo since it was the week-end I found a used and tested one from a wrecker.
Put it in, it and the gauge now work fine.

But now there is ZERO pressure at the Schrader. I can see the fuel pressure gauge when I turn the key so there is zero pressure being created..........just bubbles come out when I depress the pin???
I followed the fuel line back to the NEW filter and there is hardly anything coming out of the tank when I turn the key. 1/2 teaspoon at most.
Not the wonderful spray I would expect from the 45 PSI the pump is suppose to produce.
The pump also kicks out instantly........which I think is a significant symptom of some module being screwed up.

So what next?

What else could it be?
And how to check before I drop the tank again? I repainted everything and it is sitting in there so nice.
What could be telling the pump to turn off without pressurizing the tank?
And did so with the original pump?

I want to replace whatever isn't working I just don't want to replace everything else to find it.

Have a great day.
Brad.

Swap the fuel filter again .... after that:

You've done a lot of work, .... I'm gonna suggest some more. Drain most of the gasoline out of the tank. Drop the tank again. Disconnect the fuel tubes to-and-from the pump unit. Hook some long temporary hoses from the fuel pump to some safe container. Hook the electrics up to the pump ... and give it brief bursts of voltage.

Needless to say this is a dangerous procedure. Prepare for fire! ... and then do everything to avoid fire!

You should be able to determine if the pump actually works. If it does, I would then use low pressure air to determine if something is plugged inside the fuel tubes from the tank to the engine.

Hi 12Ounce Thanks for the reply.

No sweat taking the tank down again this will be the third time so I'm sure I can beat my last record easily. WD-40'd everything that moves under there.

However----touching a pos. and neg. to the pump as it sits in an empty gas tank --- Full of fumes --- isn't going to happen around here.
The warning should read "Explosion" just before fire. :runaround:

I did blow air through the filter and it is fine.

The problem is no pressure coming from the tank.
When I put this last pump in it did come on for a few seconds initially just like the first time I tried to start this beast with the original pump. They both produced enough pressure to cause a slight blast at the Schrader Valve when I depressed the pin.
After that they produced no pressure at all.
That is why I did the pump change.
Well that and I followed power back as for as the line to the pump coming out of the Inertia Switch. I figured the pump had power so it must be busted which I'm now thinking was wishful thinking.

I followed the fuel line back to the fuel tank and see there is no pressure coming out of the tank/pump and the pump is not staying on longer than it takes to make a click.
These are both Ford pumps not made in China ones so I am really thinking some module that is speaking falsely to the pump, probably the EWM, ex-wife module.
(I'd call it something more colorful but this may be a family forum!!)

I will test the pump again but have you ever come across a fouled electrical/computerized thingy that can do this?
I read in one forum that rain can get in some and do this sort of damage especially the ones under the wiper cowl.
And to a vehicle that sat for a while like this one did.

By the way, since this is a two line system do I need to bleed the air out of the line when I get it working again? Because there is air in these lines now.

thanks a plenty.

1. Just because a fuel pump motor runs ... does not mean the pump works properly.

2. Normally at start-up, the pump only gets a brief voltage signal ... which continues if the PCM sees that the engine is running. You will have to provide a "constant" voltage signal for testing ...jumper the relay receptacles or something. Remove the core from the Schrader valve ... and hook on a long hose if you want to do some serious pump testing.

You may already know the above .... just want to make sure.

(BTW. in my little scenario above ... I was suggesting using the regular harness electrics to the tank pump unit.... not temporary feeds. But if you are sure the feed tubes are clear ... I am no longer suggesting you drop the tank. Do all the testing under hood.)

Found some spare time so I gave your suggestion a whirl.
Which is what the fuel pump did when I jumped the 207 fuel pump relay.

I put a fuel pressure gauge on to test for pressure at the same time and it shot up to 40 PSI and since the manual calls for 35 to 45 PSI I am happy with that.

So I can say that this pump works, the fuel lines are clear & there is power going through the system to the fuel pump.

It still didn't start even with that pressure in the system.
But I didn't try to start it with the jumper in place...!
Hmmm, .... I think I'll try that next, after I go and get some alligator clips and t pins the paper clip doesn't seem stable enough.

I checked the secondary power source at the relay and it only came on as I turned the key but it did not go off after 2 seconds as I expected it to. But that is what happens in a GM so maybe Ford is different???

So what next?
From what I have read this is where I start thinking about replacing the PCM but that is the same thinking that got me to replace a perfectly good fuel pump.

Thanks for the help. :)

Sure, try the engine with the pump jumper'd "on". And after that .....:

Next survey the injectors ... are they getting voltage pulses? And after that ....:

I'm beginning to wonder why we are even checking fuel pressure. Have you ascertained you have spark? Easy way to check it is pull a cable off ... attach to spare plug ... which you rest against engine metal ... observe while assistant cranks the engine over.

I have a spark tester so that was the first thing I did.

I'll get to testing a start off a jumped relay after a big breakfast. :iceslolan
If it starts and runs then the injectors are good but I already know they are because when I put fuel in the throttle it runs fine. Actually it purrs.

The indications are pointing to the modules, relays, fuses and whatever else is between the fusebox and the PCM.
The local Ford shop here says they have never had to replace a PCM so I am hoping it is something like the camshaft sensor or a short in one of those.

It happened after the thing sat outside for 8 months so I am wondering water damage as well,...but this van has hardly any rust on it and non under the hood. ?

Perplexing......no Challenged. :smokin:

I'll let you know. :uhoh:

.....
If it starts and runs then the injectors are good but I already know they are because when I put fuel in the throttle it runs fine. .....

fuses and whatever else is between the fusebox and the PCM.

The local Ford shop here says they have never had to replace a PCM so I am hoping it is something like the camshaft sensor or a short in one of those.

It happened after the thing sat outside for 8 months so I am wondering water damage as well,...but this van has hardly any rust on it and non under the hood. ?

....

When you dump fuel in the throttle body ... that proves nothing about the injectors.

Yes, make sure the PCM is being fed at all power inputs. That is very likely a problem ... some dirty relay contacts or such. Have you tried jumping the system with another running vehicle ... just to make sure the system is getting plenty of juice?

I agree with the Ford dealership ... the PCM is truly bullet-proof!

After a big breakfast ... I want a nap!

Hi again.

Yes lots of juice, new battery and I take it out and run it in my full size van to charge it up regularly.

I know I'm probably applying wishful thinking to the injectors.
They look like a big job to change and the way the are all attached I would want to change them all if even one was bad.

But how can the van run, even for a moment if they are not working?

Then again I have had other tools that work fine everyday until you let them sit for a long period, then something clogs up or crystallizes.

I'll follow the electrical route to the PCM and then study up on how to test the injectors.

Man once this is done I am going to be good at trouble shooting...:biggrin:

Good timing causeI have two kids who are getting their license soon.

have a good day.

When you squirt fuel into the intake ... you are doing, in an uncontrolled way, the task that the injectors do ... they squirt, at the right time, fuel into the intake.

I would not suspect all injectors to be "bad" ... in fact, probably none are! I suspect they are not getting the electrical impulse ... at the right time.

I'm going out on a limb and guess that the cam positioner sensor is not working ... or is poorly "timed". I would suggest you read up on this device ... it is mounting on a cam position "synchronizer"... which goes down through the engine front cover and meshes with gears on some shaft within the engine. It requires a little $5 plastic tool to be used to properly "time" with the cam. The sensor can be replaced with a little effort .... it requires a bit more to assure the timing is correct.

Hi Again.

I haven't taken the cam position sensor off yet. mostly because I'm fairly sure that the synchronizer is going to be an issue.
It doesn't look harder than a oil pump on a carbureted model but time and enthusiasm are an issue right now.

I have a new issue that may or may not be related.

I charged the battery on my other truck and connected it to the Windstar and did nothing with it for a week.
Today I tried to crank it and it went dead right away.
I re-did the charge, took the ground off the battery and attached a 12 volt tester between the ground wire and the battery post and the light came on as I understand it should not have.

I then removed every fuse and the light stayed on for all of them..!!!

Related or not?

Should I remove all the relays one at a time as well?

Oh yeah......the previous owner pointed out to me that it had a new alternator.... I have read in several forums that old school people mistake the squeal of a Synchronizer/ Camshaft position sensor to that of a bad alternator.
Could the lack of fuel pressure and now a strong power drain be connected?

??? Perplexed. :banghead:

Not sure about your electrical test...remember that there is a path to ground through the alternator itself ... so I don't understand the rational of a test lamp between the battery post and cable.

How well does the battery crank the engine?

I would not hesitate to check the synchronizer position ... and be prepared to lubricate it while on a workbench ... but do your homework first. TDC can be difficult to establish as the pulleys are usually not well marked.

Not sure about the electrical problem. I'll need to look at the wiring manual to know for certain, but in general, there should not be any current from the battery when the key is turned off, other than the power used to maintain the memory and clocks, and power the door sensor. These are very small currents. Once you remove the fuses, then this current should drop to zero.

A normally operating alternator/generator will not draw current from the battery, because the diode pack will prevent current flow from the battery. However, if the diode pack is damaged, then current could flow from the battery. I believe the wire from the battery to the alternator cannot be disconnected with any fuse in the fuse box. You may need to remove the wire at the alternator post.

The power is applied to the fuel pump for ~2 sec when the ignition is switched on. You can repeat this process by turning off the ignition for ~5 sec then turning it back on. If you don't have the correct fuel pressure on the rail (40-45 psi), then you must first correct the fuel pressure determine if fuel injectors are working.

Since the relay only comes on for such a short time, you need an assistant to turn the key while you observe the voltage across the solenoid coil. If voltage is present for the 2 second interval, then check the voltage across the switched terminals. Here the voltage should read 12 volts when off, and drop to 0 volts when the solenoid is turned on. Alternatively you can measure the voltage at the output lead of the switch (the one that is normally zero when the key is on), to see 12 volts for the 2 seconds after the key is turned on.

If everything is OK with the electrical signals, then check for fuel pressure at the input to the filter (which it seems you've already done), at the output from the filter, and at the fuel rail.

I think there is a diagnostic process for this available from the Autozone website for registered users.

After checking, the alternator is fused with fusable links in line with the main wire. In addition, diodes block current flow from the battery to the alternator/generator windings.