Looking at 2002 Windstar LX to buy

Anyone have any quick advice about the low points of a 2002 Windstar LX? It has 135k miles on it.

Today I went to look at it and promised to buy in 2 days.

I found the following:

Cons:


Brake light on (fluid at minimum marked level); what are possible reasons for brake light? I checked the e-brake and it wasn't engaged.
Coolant brown to black color
Cruise Control not working
Electric mirrors not working
3/4 quart low Trans Fluid though color looked ok
Engine Oil freshly changed and full the to mark; wondering if this was just good service or a cover up of a coolant/oil mix issue
Engine Oil leak around engine oil drain pan
Tranny drain pan bone dry, but dented inward
A/C seemed to cut off and then back on while on interstate just 1 time, was at max a/c on 90 degree day; I wonder if it did this when I accelerated briskly??


Pros:


Motorized lift in back for handicapped electric chair (need this for my mom badly; main reason I was looking at this van)
Impressed with the wear physically inside and outside for its age. 135k miles - I'd rank it between good and excellent shape
Drove wonderful except for slight gear slipping on interstate, but I know how touchy these trannies are in the Windstars and the fluid has to be perfectly filled up to not have this
A/C worked great considering how hot it was outside, except for that brief cut off during interstate run
Electric adjustable gas/brake pedal
Kenwood head unit
Good tires
Handled and drove well. Easy to drive. Smooth turning wheel.
All front/rear a/c vents responded to controls in front and back
Turn signals worked
Wipers worked
Interior almost flawless

As a lot of you veterans on here already know, I have had a 95 Windstar and nearly rebuilt it entirely since i've owned it. I know there's a recall on the brake switch something or other which affects the cruise control, but I wonder if cruise wasn't working due to the low brake fluid???

Thanks again to all you wonderful peoples!!! :):iceslolan

What do you mean by "tranny drain pan bone dry", you removed it and nothing came out?

Also what is the asking price and would the seller agree to an inspection (on your dime)?

I would be suspicious of a coolant-to-crankcase transfer leakage. Not the end of the world, but I would plan on an engine overhaul soon.

If the car looks good, is free of rust and dents ... and is priced right, I would be interested. But then, I almost look forward to rebuilding an engine, just so I know its good to go.

If it were me, I'd be giving a deposit and saying that you'll buy the van on the condition that an oil sample sent to Blackstone labs comes back with an acceptable report. Blackstone does quick turn around for people in your situation and I'd expect you'd have a result in a day or 2. I'd also be topping up the trans fluid myself with mercon V just to see if that slip is because of fluid level or damage. At 135k, it's sort of at the "beginning of the end" from the trans point of view. You could also get the vin and go to Ford and see if/what's been done on the van. Brake pressure switch should have I believe. What are they asking just out of curiosity?

Here are my thoughts on the "cons" (which is probably what you most want info on, anyway). Our 2002 SEL has 138K miles and the transmission has never had a single problem whatsoever. It shifts just like it's brand new.


Brake light on (fluid at minimum marked level); what are possible reasons for brake light? I checked the e-brake and it wasn't engaged.
- Could just be pad wear
**** SCDS is leaking. See "cruise control not working" below. ****

Coolant brown to black color
- I'll bet you a dinner at Bones it's the lower intake gasket. Not a terrible job but not fun either.

Cruise Control not working
- Brake pressure switch (SCDS) not replaced at recall. Mine wasn't either; had to buy it myself. Brake fluid leaks and shorts out the switch. $18 and you'll have cruise control again.

Electric mirrors not working
- probably a fuse or something

3/4 quart low Trans Fluid though color looked ok
- hard one to judge; sometimes it seems that way when it's fine. The dipstick isn't a perfect measurement. If it shifts properly, I would leave it and disregard.

Engine Oil freshly changed and full the to mark; wondering if this was just good service or a cover up of a coolant/oil mix issue
- you never know on that one. Again, lower intake gasket is probably blown

Engine Oil leak around engine oil drain pan
- rear main seal. Mine does the same. It never leaks enough to actually drip on the ground though. I've ignored it for a few years now and it hasn't been a problem

Tranny drain pan bone dry, but dented inward
- How much dented? Mine is a little like that from trying to lift the engine that extra 1/4" to replace the tranny mount. It hasn't been a problem for going on 2 years now. If you ever pull the pan, you can bang it back out.

A/C seemed to cut off and then back on while on interstate just 1 time, was at max a/c on 90 degree day; I wonder if it did this when I accelerated briskly??
- Hard to tell. Could be a leak/bad freon charge. Maybe they threw half a can in from advance auto to make it work while you test drove and it'll all leak out shortly thereafter. A/C is really tough to diagnose though. It could also just be a bad cycling switch which is a quick, easy, & cheap repair.

Almost forgot! If cruise control is not working because the brake pressure switch wasn't replaced, that's the issue with brake fluid -- it's leaking there. Replace the switch and you'll both stop the leak and get the cruise control back. I'll update the post above.

Almost forgot! If cruise control is not working because the brake pressure switch wasn't replaced, that's the issue with brake fluid -- it's leaking there. Replace the switch and you'll both stop the leak and get the cruise control back. I'll update the post above.

I checked under the brake fluid reservoir while I was there and I didn't see any wet brake fluid on the wiring of the brake pressure switch... which is directly the only one coming out of the bottom of the master cylinder right?

What do you mean by "tranny drain pan bone dry", you removed it and nothing came out?

Also what is the asking price and would the seller agree to an inspection (on your dime)?

The bottom of the tranny pan was bone dry, yet there was a pretty wide area dent in the pan in the center... inward maybe 1/2" if I was guessing.

They wanted $3900 for the van, but I am offering $3500 and they bit on it. Supposed to pay tomorrow.

So, the 2002's are known for lower intake gasket problems??? even after all that mess with the intake gasket's in the early Windstar years???

I would be suspicious of a coolant-to-crankcase transfer leakage. Not the end of the world, but I would plan on an engine overhaul soon.

If the car looks good, is free of rust and dents ... and is priced right, I would be interested. But then, I almost look forward to rebuilding an engine, just so I know its good to go.

Yeah, I feel the same actually.. then you know where you stand with your vehicle once the engine is redone, but I need this to be reliable for my cripple mother. It seems to have been driven very softly. Its really in good looking shape visually.

Lots of coolant to crankcase leakage on the 2002's ?? REALLY? I'm just having a hard time believing this after Windstar's history.

I would guess all the 3.8's had this "opportunity" to cross fluids from the crankcase to the cooling system. Its just the nature of the beast ... the tricky lower intake manifold gasket (already mentioned above) ... and the more-tricky front engine cover gasket. It all has to do with having a chain drive the camshafts ... once that design decision is made; where does the water pump go. ?? On later engines, Ford moved the water pump to the rear of the engine ... that eliminated the need for coolant to be ported through the chain drive area, back and forth.

The gaskets may be installed perfectly, or they may-not be. Usually the leaks are small and you will never "see" coolant in the oil,.... but the coolant will get an oily stain on top. Is this bad? Yes, because just a little coolant in the crankcase will cause severe wear on metal parts. As suggested, only a lab test will prove the gaskets are doing their job. (I have a gasket job facing me ... not looking forward to it!)

so congrats on the buy overall! These vans, despite a few annoyances, are pretty good I'd suggest. So if the oil is quite new, I'd run the van for 3000 and then send the sample to Blackstone. New oil really won't show much and all Blackstone will do is ask you to repeat the sample. With some mileage on the oil it'll show much more about fluid contamination, metal breakdown etc.Of note is that Blackstone also will analyze trans fluid.I sent them a sample at my last trans fluid change and got some good info back.

Regarding power mirrors:

It's almost certainly the "joystick" switch on the driver's door panel; my '00 had this problem.

The switch can be removed and disassembled pretty easily. The switch is made up of a set of layers; the joystick pushes sets of contacts onto to an underlying conductive layer. This creates the connections that run the mirror.

The problem is that underlying conductive layer: It's noted for building up a layer of oxidation that keeps it from completing connections. I was able to disassemble my switch, clean the contacts - and add a light layer of dielectric grease to prevent this problem in the future. My mirrors have been working fine for years since this repair.

so congrats on the buy overall! These vans, despite a few annoyances, are pretty good I'd suggest. So if the oil is quite new, I'd run the van for 3000 and then send the sample to Blackstone. New oil really won't show much and all Blackstone will do is ask you to repeat the sample. With some mileage on the oil it'll show much more about fluid contamination, metal breakdown etc.Of note is that Blackstone also will analyze trans fluid.I sent them a sample at my last trans fluid change and got some good info back.

Thanks. I bought it today.

Will Blackstone analyze coolant too or would it just make sense to only analyze the engine oil?

Regarding power mirrors:

It's almost certainly the "joystick" switch on the driver's door panel; my '00 had this problem.

The switch can be removed and disassembled pretty easily. The switch is made up of a set of layers; the joystick pushes sets of contacts onto to an underlying conductive layer. This creates the connections that run the mirror.

The problem is that underlying conductive layer: It's noted for building up a layer of oxidation that keeps it from completing connections. I was able to disassemble my switch, clean the contacts - and add a light layer of dielectric grease to prevent this problem in the future. My mirrors have been working fine for years since this repair.

Thanks for reminding me about "what moves is usually the problem". I had the same issue in my 95 Windstar with the rear windows and a new switch did the trick just fine.

I don't know if they do antifreeze or not; I've never seen that advertised on their site. They do analyze trans fluid so if it were me, I'd be sending a sample of the oil once it's got some mileage on it and the trans fluid as well. It'll cost ~$40 for the samples but will be money well spent IMO. If there's contamination between the coolant and oil the oil sample will show that so I'd be betting you wouldn't need a coolant sample evaluated honestly..

One thing I've always wondered is how my sample compares to others. I'd certainly share what I have for past oil change analyses if you'd be interested.

Well, on with the repairs. Lets segway on over to these threads:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7045115#post7045115

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7045116#post7045116

Well it seems that this is a good "LOOKING" Windstar - it is a 2003 btw - , but that the people took good cosmetic care of it, while letting a lot of the maintenance go.

I took it to the shop today and they gave me a $2800 ESTIMATE to fix everything I asked for and then they found more stuff too.

Needs brake fluid flush
Needs new pads/rotors in front
Rear hydraulic cylinders leaking - which was always a problem on my 95 too.
Total brake work $460

Need alignment, but need new plates to adjust alignment
Need new front struts
Rear shocks leaking
Sway bar rubbing

Both front tires need to go and wearing bad on the inner edges; 1 showing steel

Need new front passenger door actuator for lock

Now thinking about doing the struts/shocks myself, but I'd really like some feedback on that and if I need special tools to compress the struts/shocks etc..

Obviously I gotta let the shop deal with the tires and I can do the door actuator.

To me for a 135k vehicle, this is standard stuff, but they didn't even comment on the coolant, but I guess thats because it was already so damn high to do the other stuff. This has got to mean all the other standard stuff wasn't done either.. water pump etc.. All they did was tote around a handicapped person and let the maint go.

Well you can add this repair thread to this list: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=7046130#post7046130

OHhhhhh brother... I should've known better man. One thing after another with this new old van. I should've perhaps listened to my father. I dunno... it was still such a good deal at the time... still looks great inside and out.... but thats just looks I guess.

Van has been at the shop for almost a week. I went to pick it up Friday and noticed by looking through the plastic of the brake reservoir that the brake fluid still seemed to be brown and not clear.

HOW CAN YOU REPLACE THE REAR BRAKE CYLINDER'S WITHOUT FULLY BLEEDING THE ENTIRE BRAKE SYSTEM?

$500 for a brake job fix and still got the same brake fluid in there and the brake light is still on.

I guess the van will go back to them again Monday morning. I paid them, so the light should be off. So frustrating. Was trying to save time by paying them for this work that I knew I could do myself... and now its getting the best of me.

.....
HOW CAN YOU REPLACE THE REAR BRAKE CYLINDER'S WITHOUT FULLY BLEEDING THE ENTIRE BRAKE SYSTEM?......

Why would you even think about NOT bleeding the brakes? If you haven't learned how to remove the wipers and cowling .... do it!!! The first time, it'll take you most of a half-day, then you can do it in five minutes thereafter.

The brakes should be fully flushed every year or so anyway. You will need an assistant for easy work, just fill the reservoir and pump-bleed .... and the wipers and cowl need to be removed.

Never pay for auto work you can do yourself. Use you money for a taxi until you have the time!

Just the fact that the wheel cylinders were disconnected (and yours were replaced!) automatically forces you to bleed the system.

Following your description... I'm thinking either your reservoir was never bled before and was really gunky and dirty inside or the old fluid was re-used, I would be asking them for sure how they managed the bleeding procedure!

They would've had to have bled it, but the brake light still being on makes me think they bled it wrong or not "enough". I mean its common sense to me to bleed out ALL old fluid when doing a procedure like this. This morning when I brought them the keys back for it, the service guy was trying to tell me they only bleed as much as they have to. Just so tired of "quick work" and not quality.

I would've done this myself, but brake fluid is highly toxic and its damn hot/humid outside right now. I just can't hang with outside work in this heat. I guess I gotta get me an a/c for the garage.

I dunno whats going on, maybe its the float in the master cylinder that sets off the brake light, but now the brake light is off..... however I've only driven it home about 2 miles from the shop 1 time. I'm happy its off, but will be more convinced when I drive it around some more.