2005 Grand hard start and random shut off while driving

Hello, I have a 2005 Grand AM SE v6, 3.4 that I had purchased used in 2008 with less than 23,000 miles. It is now at 52,000 miles. My troubles started less than a year after I bought it. In the last 4 years I have viewed just about every forum on the issues I am having, but I have not come across any with the same issues, there is usually a slight difference. Here are the details.

Car has hard starting problems randomly. Engine always turns over but does not always fire. Sometimes it starts right up, other times it takes several attempts. Totally random.

Car randomly shuts off while driving. Just cuts power, no warning..no sounds. No specific speed, totally random.

When starting, with the key in the "on" position, if the "service engine" light DOES come on..the car will start 100 percent of the time. If the "service engine" light does NOT come on, the car WILL NOT start 100% of the time. This is totally random also, but the car will ALWAYS eventually start.

Once the car starts, it runs fine..sometimes it shuts off , sometimes it doesn't.

I've had the fuel pump pressure checked ( right up to specs). Replaced the Ignition Module (no help).
Replaced the Fuel pump Relay ( no help).

No codes come up at all. Both my mechanic and a friend of mine ( and my own observations from reading forums) lead us to believe it is a PCM issue..but another thought I have is possibly the connections (fusible links?)

Is it possible for me to take the PCM to have it tested and would a local mechanic be able to so that or will I have to contact a GM guy?

Any suggestions or observations would be greatly appreciated!

What about the key ignition switch?
You have a few switches in it.

I had issue with mine, and couln't beleive it was that until I did some voltage mesurement...

In my case, the main issue was: turning on the hvac blower from off to 1-4 caused it to not turn on right away, then turn on. From 5 to 1-4 it was even weirder: the blower was turning off, then after 1-10 seconds it was turning back on. Once the service vehicle soon light turned on, but no code got stored. The issue was that one of the 2 ignition contacts was spotted, causing a bad contact. I ended up cleaning the contacts since I was short on budjet and had to order the part, so like a 2 weeks delay... The cleaning worked.

Your car ignition switch actually contain 5 switches.
- Ignition switch batt 2 fuse (hood)
- Switch 1: hot in run and start
- Ignition module
- PCM
- Injectors
- BCM
- Transmission
- ABS
- airbag
- hazard Switch
- Switch 2: hot in acc. and run
- wipers
- turn signal
- Igition switch batt 1 fuse (hood)
- Switch 3: Hot in run
- HVAC control assembly
- Evap vent + purge solenoids
- Oxygen sensors 1 and 2
- Sunroof
- BCM
- Cruise control
- Electric windows
- Switch 4: Hot in run, acc. and start
- PCM
- Instrument panel
- BCM
- Switch 5: Hot in start
- PCM
- Starter (via the transmission shift interlock switch)

Of course, this list is incomplete, and contain possibly some options that you don't have (ex: sunroof) and also some computers are on multiple fuses.

My guess would be the switch 1 that make bad contacts, which would explain your issues quite well...
With a voltmeter you could maybe be able to diagnose it: Turn the key as to show the issue, then try to check the voltage at various fuses, like the injectors fuse... chance is that you find that some of them is too low while in trouble, but ok when the trouble is not present. Chance is that the multiple fuses that show the same voltage is in the same group...

As for cleaning it up if it happend to be the proven issue: be aware that it is technically not a servicable part, that you have to dissassemble the switch that might have several tiny springs and pins. For cleaning, a VERY fine sand paper (like 400+) is needed, I used I think some 1000... be ready to replace the part (expensive) if you lose a single spring or pin, or break a tab, or whatever happend... And could not work well if you sand it at an angle or something... For this reason I suggest to just replace it.

Thank you so much for all the great info! Unfortunately, I have a only a very basic amount of knowledge about cars...but a couple of months ago I did buy an new ignition switch but did not have it installed thinking it may not be the problem or perhaps only part of the problem...The thing is wouldn't the switch have died by now? 4 years later? It would be much easier if it just stopped running..!!

About the switch, What I bought was the ignition switch that goes inside the lock cylinder. How do I know it is not the connections to the switch itself? Forgive me if I sound like an idiot..But I am!! Would the ignition switch also cause my car to shut off? if that is the case, I can have my mechanic replace it for me since I already have the part..what do you think? Thank you again, you've been very helpful.

Laura

If the harness is discoloured, melted, some wires are harder than the others, or show some other weird sign of heat (a bad contact cause heat due to increased resistance), or is loose, then it might be it. Also, look at the pin color... Blueish/black is a sign of heat.

As to why now and not before, contacts are a bit complex... I mean, the metal have to touch enought, if the contact do not it heat up can burn some oxide or melt some metal, or disform the shape of the contact, causing a new contact area... also, an electric arc can spot, pierce throught the oxide layer, melt and alike the contacts...

And yes, it does go behind the ignition key... and can be a pita to get to. On my car I had to remove the plastic around the steering, then the bezel around the instrument cluster, remove the instrument cluster, remove the kick panel under the cluster (the panel on top of the pedals), the central consol bezel and finally the radio... All that for 3 bolts, 1 pin and 2 connectors...

But the issue I have is gone now, yay!

If the harness is discoloured, melted, some wires are harder than the others, or show some other weird sign of heat (a bad contact cause heat due to increased resistance), or is loose, then it might be it. Also, look at the pin color... Blueish/black is a sign of heat.

As to why now and not before, contacts are a bit complex... I mean, the metal have to touch enought, if the contact do not it heat up can burn some oxide or melt some metal, or disform the shape of the contact, causing a new contact area... also, an electric arc can spot, pierce throught the oxide layer, melt and alike the contacts...

And yes, it does go behind the ignition key... and can be a pita to get to. On my car I had to remove the plastic around the steering, then the bezel around the instrument cluster, remove the instrument cluster, remove the kick panel under the cluster (the panel on top of the pedals), the central consol bezel and finally the radio... All that for 3 bolts, 1 pin and 2 connectors...

But the issue I have is gone now, yay!
Ok, my ignition is located on the dash. The harness was separate from just the switch itself (which I did not buy). Do you think it's worth the try to check the contacts and install the switch if all looks good? There is nothing to lose here. I suppose if the same problems occur after the switch is installed, I will bring it to my mechanic to check the harness. That's all I can afford to do right now anyway...At this point, I really don't want to drive it anymore...got stuck way too many times in the middle of traffic...not good! Thanks again!

same as mine, on the dash, between the steering and the radio...

if you already have the switch, I'ld just replace it... I wouln't take the time to open and try to clean it up...

it's not that complicated, just a pain to get to it...

Here is the problem: from the kick panel, there is not enought space to slide it out... The radio... cover part of it and no room to take it out (you probably don't need to remove the radio I think)... so really, the way to take it out is by the instrument cluster... which is the pita...

Did you rule out the battery?

Im sure connecting it is much easier than getting to it. How long do you think it would take for a mechanic to do it? It might be worth it for me. I can take apart and fix computers, but as for cars...I had a hard time getting the fuse panel off!!

Yes, we have pretty much ruled out the battery. My mechanic checked the connections to the battery as well. He also cleaned the fuel lines, checked the fuel pressure. He actually never got the car NOT to start. Until this past March. He told me he tapped the fuel tank and the car started..So he was convinced it was the fuel pump....Until I told him about the car not starting if the Service Engine light does not appear when I turn the key (pump doesn't prime either if the light is not on)..He thinks is the PCM and so does a friend of mine who works for Toyota. But I had already bought this ignition switch and I suppose I should try that before getting into the computer issue.

Thanks for your help!

it's not that complicated, a mechanics might charge maybe 2 hours... which mean it took him 1 hour...

I would gladly do it myself if I was sure I could put the dash back together!! I could not find any instructions on line for the 2005...but Im still looking.

I have the procedure, I'll type it out later in detail...

basically, disconnect battery negative. Remove the instrument cluster, which should be: remove the 2 screws under the steering, remove the top cover, burried behind you have 2 screws for the IC trim, plus 2 on the top, remove trim. remove the screws for the IC, remove IC by noticing how you remove it (it slide in/out one way, easy to figure at removal, harder at insertion time). Remove ignition switch, relocate to an easier to access, put key to run, press and hold the button under it (metal tab/pin), pull the key... the rest should be easy...

will write more in detail later today

[quote=Lor411;7001166]
Car has hard starting problems randomly. Engine always turns over but does not always fire. Sometimes it starts right up, other times it takes several attempts. Totally random.

Is she getting a spark + fuel during this Time?
Doe's this only happen when she's random Hot?
How about the Ignition control module?

If you suspect the ICM when hot, you can use electronic freeze spray to cool it down.

Symptoms of a cold/ hard start could also point to a bad MAP/IAT sensors, they are both used by the ECU/PCU to formulate the Air/fuel mix..

Hi Daniel,
Thank you for your help. The very first thing I had done was have the fuel system checked, lines cleaned, filters, pressure checked and fuel pump relay replaced. 2nd thing I had done was replaced the Ignition module.

There were no codes at all from both mechanics that looked at it.
Also, it does not matter whether the car or the weather is cold or hot, whether its raining or sunny. I have been listening and observing the car for 4 years.

I was told that a fuel pump going bad would not cause the Service Engine Light issue I am having - where the light does not come on when I turn the key, the fuel pump does not prime and the car will not start.

Would any codes show up if the Map sensor was bad? Nothing has showed up at all..no code...nothing. Which leads me to believe its an electrical issue.

Even when the problem occurred to both mechanics there where no codes showing up.

Since I already purchased the Ignition switch (a few months ago) I suppose it wouldn't hurt to replace the old one and see what happens. Thanks again!

Thank you for the instructions! I will let you know the results as soon as I can get to it (or chicken out and bring it to a mechanic) I appreciate all your help (both of you)!

Based on the fact that the car shuts off when driving and will immediately restart I suggest you replace the crank position sensor. This is a common issue on GM cars and usually will not set a light in the computer until it actually fails. The SES light will illuminate indicating that the computer is performing a diagnostic. If it does not come on then the computer has not reset. Simply turn the key off and wait a few moments to see if it comes on. If it does the car should start.

Hi, thank you for replying. I think I am missing a few important details that I failed to post... now that you've reminded me. When the car shuts off it is rare that I will be able to start it again from a minimum of 3-4 tries to a maximum of about 10 or so...On occasion, when it does start right away, the minute I put it in drive it stalls again. Sometimes I could be sitting there for 5-10 minutes before I am able to put it in gear without it stalling. Then I'm finally able to start moving.
sometimes I make it home...sometimes it stalls again...I have had days where it ran like new..(driving short distances...maybe 20 miles round trip) Other times I can't get it out of my driveway...but I do notice that if it stalls several times and I keep trying, I usually can make it to my destination and home without any trouble. But all of this is so random. I have tried to find a pattern but each time I think I've discovered a pattern, my theory is blown.

As you said..When the SES light comes on, I hear the fuel pump and it will start. But a lot of times as soon as I take it out of park..it stalls again. Or it will begin to start and not quite make it. Thanks for your help.

Another thought I've been having is that it very possibly could be a more than one issue going on. But I think I've been trying to bury that thought...deeply!!

Based on the fact that the car shuts off when driving and will immediately restart I suggest you replace the crank position sensor. This is a common issue on GM cars and usually will not set a light in the computer until it actually fails. The SES light will illuminate indicating that the computer is performing a diagnostic. If it does not come on then the computer has not reset. Simply turn the key off and wait a few moments to see if it comes on. If it does the car should start.

That do not explain why she can know before cranking if it will start or not, based on the dash light when she first put the key to run... Hence why I suspect more a power delivery issue than a sensor issue.

The park to drive also can be explained by the switch: the same switch also power the transmission solenoids. The extra current can cause the voltage to drop too much, causing an ECU reset or alike.

Anything missing on a 4-stroke motor can kill her & don't always count on Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC), Test's, and new parts.

Security System - ?
Air system - smoke test, map test
Fuel system - Fuel pressure test
Ignition system - Bad ground, Bat/Alternator load test, ICM test, coil, and spark.
Exhaust system - catalytic converter back pressure test

The ECU/PCU, ICM, Cam sensor, and Crank sensors can be bench tested.
Use CRC electronic cleaner + dielectric grease for clean dry connections.

If there's a history for bad Crank sensors on GM cars, that's a 1st good start.

I would put my money on the Ignition system, or fuel delivery system.

My money is on the fuel pump.....keep a can of carb cleaner handy......when it won't start, spray carb cleaner into the intake.....if it starts and runs as long as you spray, it's a fuel delivery problem....either the injectors are not firing(security system) or it's fuel pressure.....

But normally, your security system will not cause a stall, so I'm guessing the fuel pump......so check check the fuel pressure with a gage when IT WON'T START....

That's probably the best test to see if it's the fuel system or ignition system.

Thank you all once again. I did have the pressure checked - that was the first or second thing I had my mechanic do. He had to wait until it wouldn't start..first couple of times I took it to him it would start up every time of course. He told me the pressure was right up to specs. But I can have him check it again.

As far as the security issue, here's something you may want to know.. I only had one set of keys so I went back to the dealer to ask him for the second set. He told me there wasn't one. I told him that this car and year comes with a Passlock system which is standard...He said no it doesnt...Of course he was lying.

My key does not have a chip in it. But the thing is the security light never flashes, nor does it stay on.
every forum I've read on the issue those 2 things happen when the security is messing up.

I don't know if this will help, but I will tell you exactly the order of things as they happened, maybe you can get something out of it.

Very first thing: One day my key got stuck and would not turn. I was parked on a slight incline.
I jiggled it for a while, made sure my shift was all the way in park..I eventually got it to turn.

This happened for about a week. Then that stopped totally.

Next. I could not get the shift out of park..That happened only a few times, then stopped.

Next..I was driving at night in the fog with my flashers on..My husband swears I left them on over night..I know I did not..Battery was dead in the morning. Got a new battery..all was fine.

One day...I go to the gas station and filled up my tank...after that for the first time EVER...my car would not start..right there at the gas station.. I thought it was bad fuel. Over the course of a couple of weeks, it began to not start randomly...That was the problem for a while..

Then for the first time ever...I shut off while driving..Never had the key get stuck ever again...never had the shift stuck in park again...Battery has been fine.

So the starting and shutting off has been that way for about 4 years now....And the past 2 weeks it seems to happen more often..But could be because I work from home and I don't drive it everyday...I don't know.. sorry Im rambling on, but maybe this info will help.

All I can say is I just hope All of you aren't right!! But that WOULD be my luck.

Thanks again!

That do not explain why she can know before cranking if it will start or not, based on the dash light when she first put the key to run... Hence why I suspect more a power delivery issue than a sensor issue.

The park to drive also can be explained by the switch: the same switch also power the transmission solenoids. The extra current can cause the voltage to drop too much, causing an ECU reset or alike.

When the SES light comes on, I hear the fuel pump priming at the rear of the car passenger side, every time, and I wait until it the pump stops before I try to start it. When the light does NOT come on, the pump does not prime and the car does not start.

Grand Am's do have PassLock......it uses a blank key.....can get one made at any hardware store(get one now before you lose the key)....the key is not your issue, as long as the lock cylinder turns(usually when it's hard turning, it's the tumblers in the lock cylinder, or it's because the way the wheel is turned when you remove the key)....

As for PassLock, you can have a problem, and the SECURITY light might not flash....only way to know for sure is to have the vehicle scanned for "BCM" codes....usually you will find a B2958 or B2960 set.....many garages/auto stores do not have scanners that can read BCM codes....

Next time you get your car running and have a couple of spare minutes, pop the hood and carefully start wiggling the wires to your ICM. There is a two wire connector on it to a Cam Position Sensor on the back of the engine. Make sure this wire and its connector is dependable. If the engine dies while you are messing around in that area, you're on to something.

Next time you get your car running and have a couple of spare minutes, pop the hood and carefully start wiggling the wires to your ICM. There is a two wire connector on it to a Cam Position Sensor on the back of the engine. Make sure this wire and its connector is dependable. If the engine dies while you are messing around in that area, you're on to something.

Thank you...will do that and let you know!

Grand Am's do have PassLock......it uses a blank key.....can get one made at any hardware store(get one now before you lose the key)....the key is not your issue, as long as the lock cylinder turns(usually when it's hard turning, it's the tumblers in the lock cylinder, or it's because the way the wheel is turned when you remove the key)....

As for PassLock, you can have a problem, and the SECURITY light might not flash....only way to know for sure is to have the vehicle scanned for "BCM" codes....usually you will find a B2958 or B2960 set.....many garages/auto stores do not have scanners that can read BCM codes....

Thank you! I often wondered if there could be a security issue even though there were no symptoms with my security light. In fact. I initially suspected that the starting issue and stalling issue could have been 2 separate things. I will look into the PassLock thing as well. Much appreciated.

I have the procedure, I'll type it out later in detail...

basically, disconnect battery negative. Remove the instrument cluster, which should be: remove the 2 screws under the steering, remove the top cover, burried behind you have 2 screws for the IC trim, plus 2 on the top, remove trim. remove the screws for the IC, remove IC by noticing how you remove it (it slide in/out one way, easy to figure at removal, harder at insertion time). Remove ignition switch, relocate to an easier to access, put key to run, press and hold the button under it (metal tab/pin), pull the key... the rest should be easy...

will write more in detail later today
Hi Phantom! My mechanic can't get to my car until Oct 2nd..Can you post the details for the switch removal and replacement, if you could? Also, I have searched everywhere for more information on the procedure but the instructions are how to replace the lock cylinder from behind the radio...nothing on how to remove and replace just the switch from the instrument cluster. Can you help? Do you know if the procedure for the 2005 v6 is the same as 2003-2004? Thank you!!

I have the procedure, I'll type it out later in detail...

basically, disconnect battery negative. Remove the instrument cluster, which should be: remove the 2 screws under the steering, remove the top cover, burried behind you have 2 screws for the IC trim, plus 2 on the top, remove trim. remove the screws for the IC, remove IC by noticing how you remove it (it slide in/out one way, easy to figure at removal, harder at insertion time). Remove ignition switch, relocate to an easier to access, put key to run, press and hold the button under it (metal tab/pin), pull the key... the rest should be easy...

will write more in detail later today
Hi again, forget about the instructions for now..I took a look and on my car there are 3 screws under the steering wheel and they are torx screws. Anyway, i will wait for Oct 2, that way I can have the mechanic test a few things you guys mentioned as well. Thanks

It sounds like a dirty or flaky ignition switch. you might try some canned air(duster) and blow the switch out.

Another thing, if you have a bunch of junk hanging from your keychain, this will cause very similar problems.

But I wouldnt rule out one of the two crank sensors, and these can be tested.
Tips and Maintenance
(http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=2148)

And as far as the SES or SVS lights being on or off during the problem, I think it is probably coincidental! :grinyes:

Update: Hi guys, I heard back from my mechanic. He got the switch in and the car started several times with no problem (but that doesnt confirm the problem is solved until I get the car home and drive it)..But of course another problem..Key won't release from the lock cylinder... they can start and shut the car off I believe..but cant take the key out..I assume that is the case since he said he will park it until I get the part. He told me about the GM price of the part..(over 240 bucks) He said the cylinder was damaged and the key could also be causing the problem. While I was on the phone with him I told him I would look at Rock Auto..they have the cylinder for 100.00 but the one they have with the keys was only for the column mount.

Before I go and purchase a lock cylinder...does anyone know if there are other issues as to why the key is jammed or if it has to do with the switch installation? i was afraid of that exact thing happening if I did it myself...Seems on some forums a few people had the same problem after installing a new ignition switch.

Any thought before I buy this part? Thank you!!

Possibly they didn't install the shifter cable correctly, you know, the cable that make it so if you ain't in park you can't take off the key

Could be, though I know that the beginnings of my problems started with the key getting stuck and even had problems shifting out of park. but that never happened again. Would that affect getting the shift or just the key getting stuck. I will call them tomorrow to see if they were able to move the car out..Thanks!

it's the same cable to prevent the key from getting out, and preventing to shift without key. But it could be well broken if you had issue before

Here is the procedure to remove the lock cylinder. IF the interlock cable is not inserted or damaged it wont shift properly or allow the key to turn off and removed.

Ignition switch Removal (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=715987)

Hi, Im back...car was in the shop for a month..mechanic was on vacation, then hurricane and all that but I picked it up today...so it's too early to tell whether or not the problem was fixed..though he seemed to think it was. I can tell you, though it might be my imagination, but somehow the car had so much more power. And the start up was much cleaner, turned right on..tried it several times and it was quite different..

So he replaced the ignition switch and the lock cylinder..did the reset for the new keys..When it started it seemed to be flawless. Took off in an instant...and going up hill it was pretty powerful...something I felt was lagging before..I definitely felt a big difference...Could that be because of the reset..or all of the above??

I can only hope the "shutting off" thing has been fixed, but I won't know until I drive it more..

I will get back to you to let you know!! Thanks again!

When I cleaned the contact of the ignition switch, I did got the feeling that I got more power and less rought idle. Which is technically possible: since it have bad contact, it do not provide the full voltage, causing part of the engine to lack power: ex: fuel injectors and spark coils. Also the transmission solenoid...

Thank you..it does make sense then. This morning it started right up, I turned the heat on and let it warm up for about 10 min and took my daughter to the bus stop. The car was definitely idling very smooth and it never stalled while it was warming up as it sometimes did. After sitting there with the car running for about 20 minutes it didn't stall when I put it into gear and left..and it drove like a gem!

I can't thank you enough for all your help..!!! If you don't hear from me again...you can safely assume the problem was solved. I truly appreciate all of your help.

did this happen to work for your car? my 02 grand am is doing the same exact thing and I've replaces so many thing and can't figure out the problem! 0please help!

Hi I've been meaning to log on and post my results but haven't had a moment to do so. For almost 2 months my car ran perfectly since the lock cylinder and ignition switch were replaced, though I don't drive it every day as I work from home. Suddenly it started all over again..just like I've read in so many posts over the years. I cant tell you how frustrated and disappointed I am. I got stuck pulling out onto a busy and congested road..some woman got out of her car and pushed me back into the parking lot. I have not driven my car since. Now it won't start at all and the battery sounds like it is dying. Slow sounding crank.

So I suppose at this point I will have to bring it to a GM service center to do diagnostics based on all the info I give them.. I also hear a popping noise which seems like it is coming from the drivers side fuse panel.. I hear this when I turn the car to the on position. It happens when the service engine light goes on, then I hear that pop, the light goes off and the fuel pump won't prime, car won't start..so..it it's very possible I have a short in the wires somewhere. There is evidence of rodents also. I'm tired of trying to figure it out.. Got 2 more car payments on this piece of crap..so I suppose I have no choice but to put the next few months of my money into fixing it..problem is I'm starting to believe it is not fixable and it is a lemon. Fo almost 6 years I have not read one forum post where anyone had had any success that the problem did not recur..but my situation may be different from yours..so don't despair!

ugh that really sucks to hear, I'm replacing mine today in hopes that was your problem. this really is a never ending thing. and it just gets worse and worse!!!!

Hi I've been meaning to log on and post my results but haven't had a moment to do so. For almost 2 months my car ran perfectly since the lock cylinder and ignition switch were replaced, though I don't drive it every day as I work from home. Suddenly it started all over again..just like I've read in so many posts over the years. I cant tell you how frustrated and disappointed I am. I got stuck pulling out onto a busy and congested road..some woman got out of her car and pushed me back into the parking lot. I have not driven my car since. Now it won't start at all and the battery sounds like it is dying. Slow sounding crank.

So I suppose at this point I will have to bring it to a GM service center to do diagnostics based on all the info I give them.. I also hear a popping noise which seems like it is coming from the drivers side fuse panel.. I hear this when I turn the car to the on position. It happens when the service engine light goes on, then I hear that pop, the light goes off and the fuel pump won't prime, car won't start..so..it it's very possible I have a short in the wires somewhere. There is evidence of rodents also. I'm tired of trying to figure it out.. Got 2 more car payments on this piece of crap..so I suppose I have no choice but to put the next few months of my money into fixing it..problem is I'm starting to believe it is not fixable and it is a lemon. Fo almost 6 years I have not read one forum post where anyone had had any success that the problem did not recur..but my situation may be different from yours..so don't despair!

i have a small question, how much stuff do you have on your keychain ?

Reason i ask is because if their is a lot of weight it can cause the contacts inside to fail and it might not start. Also forcing the key "on" if it sticks can break the switch, they are just cheap plastic inside.

Hi, and thank you for your reply. Since I've changed the Lock cylinder and igntion switch, I have only 2 keys on the chain.

Another thought I have..at one time when I had the problem with the key getting stuck and trouble getting my car out of park, (this was before my shutting off and starting problem) I was told by the mechanic where I bought the car that my entire console had to be replaced.
He said their was a problem with the cable. He quoted me almost 800.00. So I just assumed
he was ripping me off..(they did sell me this car!)

Do you think this can have anything to do with my issues?

Thanks once again.
Laura

i would say cost was possible right on replacing the parts keeping it from shifting out of park. thats the brake park interupt switch and or cable. another pain in the but to replace.

but if it was not working it prob wouldnt shift out of park

which i recently had a similar problem with my 99 SE, with 365K miles, randomly dying on my while i was driving.
i thought it might be my security or ignition switch, which is original, but it was not showing any codes. mine ended up being a connection on the ICM lose. :lol:

ignition Control module? I did have the module changed, but not the wires checked. Thanks.

I have the same exact problem as you do! I have a 2005 pontiac grand am se and it randomly shuts off while driving. The car also wont start until the engine light it ON no matter how many times you try it wont turn over. So any luck with your car?

Not yet, I will be taking it to a GM guy for diagnostics in the next month or so with all the info over the past 4years. To me it seems the problem could very well be the PCM or wiring issues as there is evidence of rodents under the hood. Or it could be both. I have never taken the car to a qualified mechanic, the local guy basically doesn't have the tools required. All I know right now is that my car has been sitting there for months, and now with a dead battery....and of course, I have one more payment left on it. You will definitely hear from me on this forum if the problem(s) is solved..I'm just hoping it is not a lost cause..this all started only 8 months after I bought it..I hate car dealers!!

Thanks for the update. Sorry you haven't found a resolution yet but I hope you do soon without breaking the bank. It really sucks because the car runs great except it turns off while turning a corner or really anything... I want to keep it but need something reliable for work.. I have also ran into the security issue where you have to let it sit in the on position for 10 minutes which is bothersome but nothing compared to losing power steering on the freeway :(

Ok, Just got my car back from a GM guy. He replaced the battery which was dead from sitting for a year, and said that when the car was started, then stalled, the code was showing that the ignition switch jumped to accessory and the car shut down. I did replace the ignition switch , if you remember.. and the car was great for about 6-8 weeks of occasional driving...which is what I told him when he asked me..but I did not purchase a GM switch...so of course I had him put one in. Well... I drove it for over an hour and it ran perfect, shut it off several times stopping at different places...started right up. I suppose the first switch I had put in could have failed, and also could have been damaged I guess when the first guy could not get the key out of the cylinder and had to replace that as well....Time can only tell so once again, I will cross my fingers and keep you posted!

Ok, Just got my car back from a GM guy. He replaced the battery which was dead from sitting for a year, and said that when the car was started, then stalled, the code was showing that the ignition switch jumped to accessory and the car shut down. I did replace the ignition switch , if you remember.. and the car was great for about 6-8 weeks of occasional driving...which is what I told him when he asked me..but I did not purchase a GM switch...so of course I had him put one in. Well... I drove it for over an hour and it ran perfect, shut it off several times stopping at different places...started right up. I suppose the first switch I had put in could have failed, and also could have been damaged I guess when the first guy could not get the key out of the cylinder and had to replace that as well....Time can only tell so once again, I will cross my fingers and keep you posted!

So it's looking like for your circumstance at least, the root cause is the ignition switch went faulty and possibly installed wrong the first time? Do you now have the GM switch in or an aftermarket switch and how much did it cost roughly?

Yes they put the GM part in. It was 151.86 plus tax..double of what I paid for the first one...I hope this was the issue.

these are cheap plastic switches and break rather easily IMO. hopefully the GM part will solve your issues.

I am getting my ignition switch swapped out tomorrow. BTY did the engine turn off and stay off or does it still come on and need to be on for you to start the car?

I am getting my ignition switch swapped out tomorrow. BTY did the engine turn off and stay off or does it still come on and need to be on for you to start the car?

When I put the key in the ON position-if the Check Engine light came on--I would hear the fuel pump prime, then when I went to start it it would start right up.

If I put the key in the ON position and the Check Engine light DID NOT come on--the fuel
pump would not prime, and the car would not start.

So I always knew when the car would start or not. I would keep trying until it eventually did.

Hope this helps..BTW, Car has been working perfectly so far. The GM guys put 100 miles on it when testing. So now it's a matter of driving and waiting...I'm still pretty anxious about driving, hopefully that will wear off!

Hello people... it seems this problem of cars shutting down while driving is quite common, and dangerous if I may mention that. I have had the problem with two different Toyota models - Chaser (2002 model) and IST (2004 model) and Subaru Impreza GG2, and my brother is having the problem now with Toyota Voxy (2005 model).
I fixed my three cars by replacing the EFI relay (used "higher rating" one!!), the first time by fluke, the other 2 times by experience! However, the Voxy is not responding to this "fluke". I have read above threads, and we may have to replace the ignition system (trial n error)... will update our lack thereof!
But the big Q is - what r the makers of these cars saying? The computer system does not pick the error!!

When I initially brought the car to my mechanic, he did not pick up a code either, but GM did. In my case my mechanic did not have the required equipment I suppose. Anyway, the car has been perfect since the second Ignition Switch (GM brand) was installed. Been driving it every day, so far so good!

I am having trouble finding a replacement part. Do you happen to have a part number or able to get one?

I meant after you changed the ignition switch does the engine light still need to be on for you to start the car or did that go away after you swapped it out. I notice now that when I am trying the engine light will turn off then turn back on after a while.