Turbo on an LS

Originally posted by ~ls/vtec~
:thefinger haters

i hate you.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)


i hate you.
As if you have any room to critisize someone else. mr I run 10.3 at 138 mph in the quarter on street tires. I'd believe his times b/f I believe that.

Originally posted by ~ls/vtec~



My bro has a 94 gsr with simple mods like cold air intake, dc sport catback exhaust, 9mm wires, downpipe, and a mugen ecu. its a four door and he runs low 14s. ill post some slips later and some pix.

Originally posted by mellowboy



Please dont tell me its all motor sayin you run low 14s with just those mods?
And what is hard to believe about a GSR running low 14's? I know B16A hatch's that run mid 14's. If it has some weight reduct. and the guy is a good driver, that is no problem.

Originally posted by jcrx

And what is hard to believe about a GSR running low 14's? I know B16A hatch's that run mid 14's. If it has some weight reduct. and the guy is a good driver, that is no problem.

At the time he posted no one said anything about weight reduction. He posted later that the GSR had no rear seat/spare etc.

Originally posted by jcrx

And what is hard to believe about a GSR running low 14's? I know B16A hatch's that run mid 14's. If it has some weight reduct. and the guy is a good driver, that is no problem.


Ok first of all he never said its a hatch. He said gsr which i'm thinkin an integra. Integras are heavy. With those mods theres no way he can hit low 14s.

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

As if you have any room to critisize someone else. mr I run 10.3 at 138 mph in the quarter on street tires. I'd believe his times b/f I believe that.
street tires.....where the hell did you get that peice of false info from? i never said anything about street tires on that car

and i like your avatar....vw hater? i can gaurantee that i know quite a few vw guys that would give you the kick just so you can say you had em for at least a few seconds

Originally posted by hybridsol
anyway.....back on topic, what did you decide to go with head wise eckoman_pdx? Sorry I've been busy the past week and haven't had a chance to answer questions, although it seems my asistance was not needed. Still I am very curious to what you decided, and I wish you the best of luck. (Keep us posted)

I am still thinking about which head to use. I have still heard several people (and not just on here) say go with the GSR, but I understand what you said about the B16A head. The slightly bigger combustion chamber at 42.7cc and the better flowing head by 5.25% seem to go hand in hand with what is beneficial for turbo'd apps. I get the feeling from what I am hearing that maybe the B16A is better for turbo, and gsr for N/A. But I don't know, thats just my hunch. I did read in a book somewhere about something in the GSR head, maybe it was the shape of the combustio chamber, or maybe something else about the chamber, I think about reshaping the head for better quench area to promote more complete combustion. Of course, I figure doing this to the B16A or GSR would be the same, so again, I am not sure what is was I read that said the GSR was better for turbo's, nor do I remember the reason it was said. But right now, I am slightly leaning towards a B16A head I think. I used to talk to a guy in San Deigo who has a 500hp ls/vtec with a B16A head, and that seems to fit in with what you were saying about the B16A for turbos. Of course, would the better flow numbers be irrelavant after porting anf polishing the head (whichever is chosen? I still am leaning towards the B16 based on what I am gathering. I wish I remembered what is was I read about the GSR head in that book, lol

I don't know how this would play into a turbo application,but the gsr head is going to have secondary runners on the intake and the B16 head won't. I have seen some guys on teamintegra.com talking about disabling the secondary runners so maybe they are not as good as the regular B16 runners. Just a thought, maybe someone will correct anything that is not true or explain why or why not the secondary runners will help or hurt the performance from a turbo motor.

B16 head is better, also responds better to porting.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)

street tires.....where the hell did you get that peice of false info from? i never said anything about street tires on that car
lets see this car? If its the one in your profile your full of it. I want proof. I could have sworn you said you smoked a Z06 on worn street tires? You posted a thread about it. Then you said in your last thread you were going to be in the 9's next year. (I have to see this CRIX)

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)
and i like your avatar....vw hater? i can gaurantee that i know quite a few vw guys that would give you the kick just so you can say you had em for at least a few seconds
Yes..... I gaurentee you don't, unless you live in the land of the 11 sec VW's. lmao :iceslolan

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

Yes..... I gaurentee you don't, unless you live in the land of the 11 sec VW's. lmao :iceslolan

yeh i guess i do...the slowest one runs low 12's...and these are only the guys im freinds with. ive seen faster bugs at the track

one turbo vr6 in an mk3 making 390 horses to the wheels not sure of what it runs at the track.
one turbo beetle making 350 to the wheels with a mostly fiberglass body thats hit high 9's at the track....and can be driven on the street with a few minor mods (the guy brings it out whenever the weather is nice)
one newly rebuilt vr6 turbo in a 97 jetta that runs low 12's in street trim (all leather seats and ac)
and a squad of 1.8t's from a shop called dubworks that are in rabbits and older gti's.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)


yeh i guess i do...the slowest one runs low 12's...and these are only the guys im freinds with. ive seen faster bugs at the track

one turbo vr6 in an mk3 making 390 horses to the wheels not sure of what it runs at the track.
one turbo beetle making 350 to the wheels with a mostly fiberglass body thats hit high 9's at the track....and can be driven on the street with a few minor mods (the guy brings it out whenever the weather is nice)
one newly rebuilt vr6 turbo in a 97 jetta that runs low 12's in street trim (all leather seats and ac)
and a squad of 1.8t's from a shop called dubworks that are in rabbits and older gti's.
Like I said b/f your claims don't add up 350 hp 9 sec street legal beetle with minor mods......minor modifications.............the slowest VW you know runs low 12's.....dude I'll be in VA next semester with hybridsol, you set your boys up so we can run em down, oh and by the way we have a 10 sec crx as well BUT ITS NOT STREET DRIVEN! You can be shure to see that in the near future I'm sick of all these lying f*cks.:cya:
(I want pictures) PROVE IT!

a picture speaks a thousand words!

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

Like I said b/f your claims don't add up 350 hp 9 sec street legal beetle with minor mods......minor modifications.............

read the post again you assclown....i said it can be street legal with minor mods.....that means with a few things unbolted/bolted back in.

thOriginally posted by DblOvrhedCamron
e slowest VW you know runs low 12's.....dude I'll be in VA next semester with hybridsol, you set your boys up so we can run em down, oh and by the way we have a 10 sec crx as well BUT ITS NOT STREET DRIVEN! You can be shure to see that in the near future I'm sick of all these lying f*cks.:cya:
(I want pictures) PROVE IT!
pm me with your number and when your going to be in town. you can take a hack at any of them or me....and ill only run about a bar. o yeh and btw...if you want to talk about WE.....WE have a sentra and a 240 turning 10's if yalls little crx wants to have some track competition.

if that race ever goes down i tthink someone should get that on cam i would like to see that race.

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

Like I said b/f your claims don't add up 350 hp 9 sec street legal beetle with minor mods......minor modifications.............the slowest VW you know runs low 12's.....dude I'll be in VA next semester with hybridsol, you set your boys up so we can run em down, oh and by the way we have a 10 sec crx as well BUT ITS NOT STREET DRIVEN! You can be shure to see that in the near future I'm sick of all these lying f*cks.:cya:
(I want pictures) PROVE IT!

HOLY SHIT! Are you serious man? Ya'll will be in VA? If so I'm meeting up with you guys. I'm racing on your side against ssshhh(burn) too. I don't know about him or his crx, but dbl and sol have a REAL crx that runs 10s! They burned my buddy HemiGeorge down with it:frown::biggrin:
Definately let me know when you'll be in the area. Also, shh(burn), I never realized you were in VA. Where abouts are you located? I'll stop by and pay you a visit. I'll bring my digi too so i can take pics of your car for the board, since I'm assuming you just don't have access to a digital camera...

Originally posted by Self


HOLY SHIT! Are you serious man? Ya'll will be in VA? If so I'm meeting up with you guys. I'm racing on your side against ssshhh(burn) too. I don't know about him or his crx, but dbl and sol have a REAL crx that runs 10s! They burned my buddy HemiGeorge down with it:frown::biggrin:
Definately let me know when you'll be in the area. Also, shh(burn), I never realized you were in VA. Where abouts are you located? I'll stop by and pay you a visit. I'll bring my digi too so i can take pics of your car for the board, since I'm assuming you just don't have access to a digital camera...
Thats a great Idea Self, were going to be in harrisonburg but I'm willing to drive pretty much wherever. We were just going to take two cars b/c I'm driving back early, and he's staying for a few more days. May be trailering another down with the 4x4 if his crx shows potential for a race. (or this beetle) :bigthumb:

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)

pm me with your number and when your going to be in town. you can take a hack at any of them or me....and ill only run about a bar. o yeh and btw...if you want to talk about WE.....WE have a sentra and a 240 turning 10's if yalls little crx wants to have some track competition.
pffff you give me your number and I'll call you while im in VA. This way Self can contact you as well.
PS-self's Z28 could run you into the ground as well, and I don't think he's running 10's yet. (correct me if I'm wrong, I know you were close)

Originally posted by DblOvrhedCamron

pffff you give me your number and I'll call you while im in VA. This way Self can contact you as well.
PS-self's Z28 could run you into the ground as well, and I don't think he's running 10's yet. (correct me if I'm wrong, I know you were close)

Never got into the 10s as I could never run a problem-free pass on a 250shot. Was hitting VERY low 11s though on a 175 with only a 1.9 60'. So I'm assuming mid 10s were very attainable on a 250 with a decent launch.
Sadley enough though, that's all in the past. Because of some budget...problems...I've since had to sell my mostly stock 96 Z28 AND part out my 95 Z28. The car is almost completely back to stock:frown::frown::frown:
Fortunately though, after all of that was done, I came back into some money. I was contemplating a new car just for a change, but really don't want a payment hanging over me. So I'm just going to start the modding back up! Taking a different route this time though. No nitrous, no FI, just a straight up all motor mammoth, hehe. And depending when you guys are down, I may be well on my way with that goal.
Do you have any clue when you guys will be down? I can meet you on your way to Harrisonburg btw. Or just go down there and meet you. It's only about 2 hours south of me. I know the JMU area well. I go to Virginia Tech and have to pass right through there everytime I go to or from tech. I'll PM you and sshh with my number a little later on, no prob.

Scrap the ls... get a b16, rev it to the stratosphere, and cram IT full of boost, crazy power, and at low revs it drives like an lx civic...

oh and rod/stroke ratio? 1.74:1 on the b16, definitely strong.

I wouldn't scrap the LS..I like the extra torque of the 1.8s. Thats why the Turbo and LS/Vtec questions have been raised. Plus, the LS tranny is really good for turbo's, and the LS bottom end is good for it as well. I just prefer the added Torque of a 1.8. It will drive much stronger than the b16 pre turbo, and thats a big thing for me; decent torque. Especially being surrounded by hills and such. Thats why I went a 1.8 over a 1.6 awhile ago. Of coruse, you are correct, the B16 does have a much more ideal rod-stroke ratio. I guess it's all a matter of trade-off's in the end.

hehe i was kiddin about the b16, but the matter of trade offs is shear truth, the best thing is to try and get a hold of the motor you want inside the car already.

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
hehe i was kiddin about the b16, but the matter of trade offs is shear truth, the best thing is to try and get a hold of the motor you want inside the car already.

:iagree:

:werd:

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
hehe i was kiddin about the b16, but the matter of trade offs is shear truth, the best thing is to try and get a hold of the motor you want inside the car already.

I did, over a year ago. I have a 97 LS B18B1 engine, tranny, and ECU. Thats what I want to start with as my engine. The LS tranny is prefact for my perfered route of FI (turbo). The LS bottom end is a real strong bottom end too. So like I said, I already HAVE the motor I want to start with. Now I am trying to figure out HOW I want to build it Build up the internals and turbo the crap outta it, or LS/Vtec it, build up the interna;s, and Turbo the hell outta it. I would never buy a pre-built motor or an LS/Vtec someone else did. I want to build the motor the right why, and how I want it done. I know the basic 2 routes I would go. As the previous 5 pages of posts show, I am just trying to decide on a route while I am still savin up the $$ to contuine. But as for getting ahold of the motor I want inside the car already? No way I am buying an already finished LS turbo or Vtec from someone else. Too many questions, Was it built right, was it abused (most likely it was) when they owned it? PLus, I already have the LS engine, tranny, and ECU installed in my car, and am very happy with it. So it's a waste of $$ to junk a low mileage LS for an already built one. I don't like buying things other people already built up or have done. I like to buy the starting point and then do the build-ups I want myself. Then the cat is truely my vision, and not someone elses.

I hate arguing with people, and I should just agree with you, but the LS bottom end cant take near the punishment a b16 bottom end can. The LS bottom has way to much stroke for its own good. And actually, the B18 is better NA because of its descent torque w/o FI.

Smaller discplacement turbo engines will always defeat large displacement NA engines cuz the small turbo has the torque, and the revs. And we all know that is what hp is. But anyhoo the reason the b18 is weaker than the b16 is because of the rod/stroke ratio. The B18 will buckle under significant boost unless you go forged in the belly. And even then, a forged b16 will run circles around a forged b18 in terms of strength. The b16 is the closest to geometric perfection. :thumbsup:

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
the LS bottom end cant take near the punishment a b16 bottom end can. The LS bottom has way to much stroke for its own good. And actually, the B18 is better NA because of its descent torque w/o FI.

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
But anyhoo the reason the b18 is weaker than the b16 is because of the rod/stroke ratio. The B18 will buckle under significant boost unless you go forged in the belly. And even then, a forged b16 will run circles around a forged b18 in terms of strength. The b16 is the closest to geometric perfection. :thumbsup:

fuck you and your small motor

uh, fuck you too.

Im sorta confused.

I guess since I got a b16, im an "Ls hater"

This thread is about to be shut down im sure...

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
I guess since I got a b16, im an "Ls hater"
exactly
you've been branded

i think youve got serious defensive issues... i hope that 10 second teg makes you feel a little better about yourself... i cant imagine how youd act without it :rolleyes:

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
i think youve got serious defensive issues... i hope that 10 second teg makes you feel a little better about yourself... i cant imagine how youd act without it :rolleyes:
haha i was joking with you.
and i dont drive an integra

i guess i meant teg motor. :lol:

BTW, rod/stroke ratio needs to be good when you rev high, not when you get a lot of power out of it. So if you don't take an LS much past 7K RPM, I've seen people get 400 HP out of the stock crank. Of course you can rev the B16 higher, but that doesn't make it faster or able to handle more power.

Originally posted by PWMAN
BTW, rod/stroke ratio needs to be good when you rev high, not when you get a lot of power out of it. So if you don't take an LS much past 7K RPM, I've seen people get 400 HP out of the stock crank. Of course you can rev the B16 higher, but that doesn't make it faster or able to handle more power.

exactly. ide really LOVE to see some explantion from this kid on how a b16 can handle boost better than a b18b.... keeping in mind that we are talking about stock engines, personally i havnt seen (in real life....not some dyno sheet bullshit) a turbo b16 that was pushing more than 10 psi and that was at the track. i tuned my first ls bottom end to 16 pounds at the track and that was on a stock ls motor with a custom kit with a t3t4e and a ported revhard manifold. ive heard of a guy in virginia beach that tuned a stock ls to 19 pounds before they blew it up.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)


exactly. ide really LOVE to see some explantion from this kid on how a b16 can handle boost better than a b18b.... keeping in mind that we are talking about stock engines, personally i havnt seen (in real life....not some dyno sheet bullshit) a turbo b16 that was pushing more than 10 psi and that was at the track. i tuned my first ls bottom end to 16 pounds at the track and that was allstock ls with a custom kit with a t3t4e and a ported revhard manifold. ive heard of a guy in virginia beach that tuned a stock ls to 19 pounds before they blew it up.

damn i havent seen a stocker crank make that kinda power, shit thats cool.

And you dont think the extra revs on the b16 will make overall more hp? You do know even a stock b16 crank can turn 9000 rpms and possibly higher right? i mean thats a tough number to compete with...

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
damn i havent seen a stocker crank make that kinda power, shit thats cool.

And you dont think the extra revs on the b16 will make overall more hp? You do know even a stock b16 crank can turn 9000 rpms and possibly higher right? i mean thats a tough number to compete with...

but i beat i was making more torque at 4800 rpms than that motors making at 9000. right now im probably making more torque at 2000 rpms than most turbo b16s are making at 9000.

and now suddenly since theres somebody else on here your not kidding anymore... :lol:

geez, its pointless for me to say anything, cuz theres 2 ppl against, and one for it, so it doesnt really matter now, im wrong either way, untill 2 more ppl come on that agree with me. i guess i should have never said anything to begin with.

If you honestly think the ls and b16 bottom ends can handle the same kind of hp then im all up for learning something. so teach away, why is it that the ls is just as capable?

but i beat i was making more torque at 4800 rpms than that motors making at 9000. right now im probably making more torque at 2000 rpms than most turbo b16s are making at 9000.

Thats irrelevant, cuz if i was even making half the torque at 9k that you make at 2, i would sitll have like twice the hp, and pull the bullshit right outta you.

Originally posted by C32Bperformance


Thats irrelevant, cuz if i was even making half the torque at 9k that you make at 2, i would sitll have like twice the hp, and pull the bullshit right outta you.

???? i seriously doubt you have even half as much horsepower as my car does.
i doubt that your car even makes as much horsepower as mine does torque. (on 118 octane gas its putting out 538 whp and 357 lbs of torque at only 1.4 bar of boost .edit (thats 20.3 pounds of boost and the car can be tuned to around 26 with very little fuel work)

its been said a million times....if b16 motors were better for turbo then people would be dumping gobs of money into their si-r motors for turbo

B16 heads flow better than any other B series head. So if you do LS/VTEC with B16 head thats the best HP making setup. Of course we all know how unreliable an LS/VTEC is. I never seen one last for more than 2 years, but then again the people that do it are always racing them.

Originally posted by PWMAN
B16 heads flow better than any other B series head. So if you do LS/VTEC with B16 head thats the best HP making setup. Of course we all know how unreliable an LS/VTEC is. I never seen one last for more than 2 years, but then again the people that do it are always racing them.

you can make any b series head flow well. ls/vtec turbo is not the best solution always...

you got that 500 hp up in the revs, i was merely stating that your statement about 2k torque didnt mean anything in comparo to torque at 9k

Around here, ppl boost b16s like crazy, its the most popular motor.

Heres the deal, I used to think the ls was the way to go, its all i had my eyes on, i was gonna take the head i had and put the nice ls under it.

I watched b16 guys beat the piss outta their motors and have nothing break, even the boosted ones. Then I see the GSR and Ls guys boost their motors, and throw rods, and bend cranks an i began to get a little curious.

I found what i thought was the answer, the rod/stroke ratio. For a while i thought i was lucky in not having bought that bottom end already and have it junked after breaking it. For a while I started to see the b18 guys fall behind in the racing scene, and i watched even b16s with stock 8k revs beat out the b18s.

Now Im hearing differently again. So like i said before, tell me why the b18 bottom is as good as the b16, cuz i see otherwise here in tampa.

Originally posted by C32Bperformance
you got that 500 hp up in the revs, i was merely stating that your statement about 2k torque didnt mean anything in comparo to torque at 9k

Around here, ppl boost b16s like crazy, its the most popular motor.

Heres the deal, I used to think the ls was the way to go, its all i had my eyes on, i was gonna take the head i had and put the nice ls under it.

I watched b16 guys beat the piss outta their motors and have nothing break, even the boosted ones. Then I see the GSR and Ls guys boost their motors, and throw rods, and bend cranks an i began to get a little curious.

I found what i thought was the answer, the rod/stroke ratio. For a while i thought i was lucky in not having bought that bottom end already and have it junked after breaking it. For a while I started to see the b18 guys fall behind in the racing scene, and i watched even b16s with stock 8k revs beat out the b18s.

Now Im hearing differently again. So like i said before, tell me why the b18 bottom is as good as the b16, cuz i see otherwise here in tampa.

anytime you make a high horsepower engine somethings going to break. if you do it right....stuff breaks less often. all i know is....ive NEVER been beatin by a b16 period. shit. my daily driver n/a ls crx has knocked off 3 2000 si turbo's .
the ls bottom is as good simply because the internals can hold more boost and you dont have to rev the motor high to get power. bigger is better 99.9% of the time

Originally posted by C32Bperformance

Now Im hearing differently again. So like i said before, tell me why the b18 bottom is as good as the b16, cuz i see otherwise here in tampa.

If you don't rev over 7K the LS is just as strong. It wasn't meant to be revved, and it doesn't have to be. Most guys that do LS/VTEC try to scream their motors because they think they have too and thats why it blew up. It makes it's peak HP at 6300, so it makes no sense to rev over 7K anyway.

ok, i can see where your comin from with that, now heres my last arguement.

Im gonna do a little math here to hopefully prove what im trying to say, if it doesnt, then good for everyone cuz i learned somethign and you guys are right. Here goes.

Think about the extra torque an Ls is gonna make compared to the b16. Its about 12.6% (when comparing displacements).

Now lets set some torque standards, do we all agree that it doesnt matter where the torque comes from? aslong as the numbers are consistent with each other?

Lets say this particular ls has 250lb/ft of torque. That would mean the b16 under the same conditions would have 218.25lb/ft of torque.

The ls is going to rev 7000, and make its peak horsepower at 6300? Because of a lack of a dyno, we will put the torque numbers we currently have at the peak hp. Lets also say, that the b16 im describing with a 9k redline will peak at a meek 8200?

By means of TxR/5252=hp ::

The ls will make 299.8 hp. The B16 will make 340.7hp. I suppose thats the only thing left to be proven wrong and im an ls believer again. Thanks.

Peak torque is almost never made at the same RPM as the peak HP.
And displacement isn't the only thing that makes more torque, a longer stroke gives more torque also.

Because of a lack of a dyno, we will put the torque numbers we currently have at the peak hp

change what you like in the math, i think youll find similar results even when you correct everything... Im just not convinced, I see that the B16 is stronger.

Since the B18 makes it power at lower RPMs you can't really compare them the way you did. Because the B16 makes it's peak torque closer to it's peak HP. So my only answer can be just because it revs higher doesn't mean it makes more power.
When you said 12.6%, it's 13.1% actually. Because the B18B1 is 1834 cc and the B16A is 1595 cc. But that doesn't make much difference anyway, come out to 217.25 instead of 218.25. But anyway, this still doesn't take into consideration the stroke difference. So i really don't know what to say anymore, oh well. VTEC must also screw with some things too, when those secondary lobes kick in thats when the B16 finally begins to make some serious power, and of course the LS doesn't have this. So like I said there is just too many factors about this. I could plug everything into my desktop dyno, but of course that doesn't take into account the VTEC so screwed again.:comprage1

If you want to compare it something with VTEC like the B18C1, thats peak torque is at 6200. Peak torque on a B16A is 7000. So take into account that it is only 1797 CC instead, thats 11.3% difference. So 250 Lbs for the B18 makes the B16 have 221.75. Take into account the RPM's and and you get 295 HP for the B18 and 295 for the B16. But the B18 will be faster cuz of the more torque.
I don't think rod/stroke ratio has much to do with how much power an engine makes, unless it's VTEC which allows huge cams to be run which gives you superior top end. So the fact that the B16 is VTEC totally messes up any calculations you or I may make to be able to compare it to any non-VTEC.

And in actuality, that comparison gives more hp to the ls than it would have, since it is non-vtec. It would have a little bit less torque up high like that. Thats as close as you can come in this forum on deciding which motor is better, but i honestly think if (_burn_) had put as much time and money and tuning efforts into a b16, he would be faster.

The b16 makes equal hp as the ls with much, much less boost. And that is not really even considering my original arguement, that it can in fact handle more boost than the ls.

Originally posted by C32Bperformance

The b16 makes equal hp as the ls with much, much less boost. And that is not really even considering my original arguement, that it can in fact handle more boost than the ls.

Well the fact that the B16 makes 30 more HP to begin with doesn't help. Also how is it that a B16 can handle more boost? Certainly not stock for stock, since the B16 has high compression, 10.4:1 VS 9.2:1. You can boost a stock LS 12 PSI, you can boost a B16 Probably 8 PSI. That 4 PSI is going to make that 30 HP difference up, plus the B18 will have more torque and therefore be faster.
And why do people think boosting a VTEC makes it better? NO it does NOT. VTEC causes so much valve overlap that at high RPM's it's hard to make boost.

I dont think however that the calculations i made on the previous post are very inaccurate. VTEC or not, any number of torque can theoretically be at any rpm with mods. So i put that 250lbft pretty lofty for the ls. but even then, you could just figure the hp at the peak torque rpm, which will be less than the peak hp rpm, and the b16 still is faster.

And im not getting into the arguement about how important hp really is. It just is, not peak hp, but hp in a grand scale. Torque needs to happen as fast as possible, and thats what hp is. Im sorry, i do not see it the B16 is stronger all the way.

And why do people think boosting a VTEC makes it better? NO it does NOT. VTEC causes so much valve overlap that at high RPM's it's hard to make boost.

Sorry buddy, thats wrong. You can ask any real engineer or tuner. VTEC helps no matter what. All thats happening is that some, SOME boost is being lost between overlap. You arent having trouble making boost. It boost just fine.

By SOME were tlaking the difference between 130% VE and 133% VE, gimme a break, the torque up in the high revs made possible by VTEC blows away any loss you might have from high overlap.

Oh and i understand that the compression on the LS is much more friendly to turbo, when talking stocker, but we arent, were talking hard boost, were talking tuning, drag racing. Compression can be changed...

There's no replacement for displacement

LOL

How is it that it say's you're offline but you are still replying?