Front and rear struts/shocks replacement and AC noise

Hi guys!

I'll be replacing both struts and shock absorbers on my 2000 windstar. I've seen some people was able to replace them without using a spring compressor etc. etc. but after reading the factory service manual I would like to know if all of you have replaced the items that are supposed to be replaced:

1 strut to knuckle retaining bolt
1 stabilizer link to strut retaining nut
3 strut mount nuts

I DO have a torque wrench so I'll be doing the replacement the correct way but would like to know if it's that important to replace such items (there are no rust problems down here).

Also, today I noticed a humming/howling noise coming from the back of the van after I left the it idling with the AC on (relatives were inside) while I was buying the shocks and struts, the noise seems to come and go after a few minutes, it's not constant. I'm thinking was because of AC being on. I have the dual AC system and noticed it wouldn't cool as much as before; I wonder if being low on charge could cause some sort of noise (I'm a bit familiar with low charge symptoms but never heard about noises...)

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Oscar.

I didn't replace that hardware. Those items were all in fine shape on my '00, so I re-used them without problem. I suspect you've seen my Windstar strut replacement pictures, but in case anyone else needs them:

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/560513401mTnRfu

Regarding noise from the back of the van: The rear heat and A/C unit has a blower in it. If it's extra noisy, the motor may be failing.

I'm a bit anal about hardware. My feeling is that as I'm doing the job myself I'm already saving money so I usually do replace those parts. I also find that having them on hand is always helpful because some component usually gets rounded or messed up a bit in removal. Also, I live in a snow/salt belt so most of my hardware is pooched upon removal. Where you are, I'd bet things look much better. Bottom line, common sense prevails.

piper -

Did you get such parts through the dealer - or find comparable aftermarket items?

I actually get most of my stuff from my local auto parts place. It's an independent shop that really provides great, fast service with good prices. That's where I got my suspension hardware the last time I did the front end. I very reluctantly go to Ford for anything unless it's my last choice, or things like OEM spark plugs or PVC valves etc that just seem to make the windstar run better.

I just like working with new stuff and find if I'm doing a job like an overhaul to front end suspension, it's nice knowing "its all new".

Oh, the other thing is, my wife and kids spend most of the time in the van; I rarely drive it. So while it might be silly, at least I take some peace of mind knowing I haven't cheaped out on a hardware item by re-using that might leave me wondering if it'll fail.

Thank you Phil and Piper,

I appreciate your responses

Yeah, I agree with the common sense thing and replacing cheap parts when you're at it, it's just better; I also prefer doing the job myself, knowing the shops around here I don't trust them anymore. I don't care if the vehicle will spent a month on jack stands, I prefer to do it myself... ;)

In the end I'll end up replacing the strut mount nuts, in fact I'll have to replace the entire mounts,. When I took one assembly out (I spent all day fighting it to come out, don't ask... The guy who I was going to borrow the spring compressor from never showed up so I decided to remove only the strut and leave the mount in place, BAD IDEA!) and after I removed the mount from the assembly it came apart into two pieces and lots of ball bearings fell on the ground; I'm currently waiting for the new mounts to arrive and will be installing them tomorrow.

I'll be reusing the strut to knuckle bolt, in the future I might just buy new ones and replace them, it's a quick job after all :).

Piper, I wonder if you could provide the type of the strut to knuckle bolt. I'll take a look at the head to check if it has the grade on it, but I'm still asking just in case.

About the AC thing, it doesn't sounds like a fan going bad, but I'll take a look at it. In fact it's more perceptible form the outside rather than form the inside.

Oscar.

This link might be helpful for looking up parts frrom Ford.

http://www.fordparts.com/Landing/Motorcraft.aspx

I used a grade 8 which is the highest American Standard (go big or go home right?)

Here's a chart that might be helpful.

http://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/Materials-and-Grades/Bolt-Grade-Chart.aspx

I actually get most of my stuff from my local auto parts place. It's an independent shop that really provides great, fast service with good prices.

When it comes to nuts and bolts I deal with a machinery supply shop, all I have to do is bring them the originals and ask for either identical replacements or higher grade. Usually they have those parts already in stock but if not they have computerized machine-tools that make them right there and then, they just throw "blank" bolts and nuts of desired grade in the machine and voilà. While most bolts used by Ford are already top grade (8 or metric "full star") some are not and that's an easy way to upgrade them, and it's cheaper than anywhere else. Ford dealer had once told me I couldn't find those bolts anywhere else but that proved to be BS, auto parts industry is standardized and you will find identical fasteners on many makes and models. Bolts that sell for $7.99 at Ford dealerships are worth about $1.29 at a machinery supply shop.

In the end I'll end up replacing the strut mount nuts, in fact I'll have to replace the entire mounts,. When I took one assembly out (I spent all day fighting it to come out, don't ask... The guy who I was going to borrow the spring compressor from never showed up so I decided to remove only the strut and leave the mount in place, BAD IDEA!) and after I removed the mount from the assembly it came apart into two pieces and lots of ball bearings fell on the ground; I'm currently waiting for the new mounts to arrive and will be installing them tomorrow.

Wouldn't it be simpler just to use Quick Struts, you'd save a lot of time and this way you'd be assured the springs aren't to blame if it still rides a little rough :)

Wouldn't it be simpler just to use Quick Struts, you'd save a lot of time and this way you'd be assured the springs aren't to blame if it still rides a little rough :)

Ditto to that. And the quick struts came with 3 new strut mount nuts as well.

Thank you guys.

Piper, thanks for the bolt grade.

Windstartled, scubacat I agree it would be easier but, price wise, was not an option; over here I would get only one quick strut for the same price that I got the 4 struts/shocks.

Actually it wasn't that bad. My big mistake was trying to remove ONLY the strut without the mount; in other words I removed the strut shaft nut without removing the 3 mount nuts and was hoping I could slide it out by leaning it BUT I COULDN'T so had to run to autozone to rent a spring compressor and fight against the spring in order to put the assembly back together and remove the entire asembly (like I should have done since the beginning).

The van rides great now, I took it to the shop to have it aligned and everything went fine; I asked them to inspect the remaining suspension components, I just wanted to confirm my thoughts according to my experience.

Now I have other comments to say...

*stretches his hands, takes a deep breath and starts a rant*

I don't know what the hell happened; after a few miles after I left the alignment shop, when I got home, I started to hear LOTS of chirping (like if a dolphin was under the hood!) when turning the wheels. I don't think the shop could have done anything that could cause the noise, so my next thought is bad mounts out of the box, darn thing!!! I swore I wouldn't do struts anymore...

Do you think the chirping could be bad mounts or maybe the top shaft nut worked itself loose? I'm pretty sure I tightened it properly but with my luck, everything is possible.

Thanks in advance for any comments, I really appreciate it.

Oscar.

PS. Off topic, since I already had the cowl apart I took some time to replace the spark plugs, and when I took them out and the insulator was RED? :s I don't know what could have caused it. Some of them have a brown spot (like glazing). I can upload some pictures and put them in a new thread if possible. I'll be googling for red insulator in a moment.

Windstartled, scubacat I agree it would be easier but, price wise, was not an option

I was afraid you'd be just like me, and indeed you are :frown:

:iceslolan

One reason Ford recommends replacing the various fasteners with new OEM is sometimes an applied anti-sieze, anti-vibration, anti-rust thread sealant is used on the new bolts/fasteners. Sometimes they are "stretchy-bolts".

When I reuse fasteners, I always apply a thread sealant such as Loct-Tite.

Thank you, in the end most fasteners were replaced; only the knuckle bolt was reused but I plan to replace it later, it's an easy thing.

Any idea on the chirping/squeaky noise?

Oscar.

I had my front struts replaced on my '96 at about 183K miles and the vehicle age was 11 years.
I had a broken spring......outside the 10 year-unlimited mileage extended waranty program from FORD.
I had Monroe "Quick struts" installed.
They use the Sensa -Trac strut.
I like the Quick-strut method because you get new springs, upper strut bearing....etc all in 1 unit.
I had my local shop do this job, so I cannot offer any hands-on tips.
However,..... there is a time/labor savings in the whole unit....and the avoidance of having to take things apart again for some other issue, like upper bearing....after you have done the repair.
You don't have the issue of removal of the spring from the old strut and installation on the new strut.

I replaced my REAR shocks with Monroe "Sensa-trak" shocks.
I was happy with those.
The bolts took some "convincing" and I did need to re-tighten them for some reason the first time I did the rear shocks.
Of course, you don't have to mess around with the spring on the rear.

..... after a few miles after I left the alignment shop, .............. LOTS of chirping ...... when turning the wheels. I don't think the shop could have done anything that could cause the noise, .........

Well, I would ... believe that they did something to cause the noise. After all, did you have it before you visited the steering shop?

Thank you for your comments guys.

No, I didn't have the noise before (it started after about 10-15 miles after leaving the shop) and I was thinking the same as you 12Ounce but yesterday morning I checked all nuts and bolts and they were fine, started the engine and turned the wheels from side to side and the noise was gone.

Drove the van for the rest of the day and the noise started again; now I know it seems to be temperature dependant; don't know what might be causing it, since it's a chirping/squeaky noise I'm guessing either the spring seat or upper insulator has something to o with it. Any ideas?.

I know I need to replace the steering fluid (the steering "resonates" from time to time when turning the wheels) but don't think it can have something to do with the noise. Other than that it rides and drives perfectly.

Oscar.

Hi guys, It's me again.

I"ve been thinking if it's possible that the CV joints are causing the noise. Even when I tried to not let them hang too much as the FSM states, there is still a chance, knowing my luck...

The only time I've heard a bad CV joint was with a 92 Buick Century which would only make a loud clicking when the wheel was all the way to the right and only under acceleration. I've been googling for CV joint failure but it's still not clear to me if it can be my problem, all they say is either clicking/thumping noises.

The symptoms I'm getting are:

- Noise when turning the wheels (to both sides) specially at stand still.
- LOTS of vibration felt through the steering wheel at stand still.
- Noise is only present after driving for some time.
- Vibration is present all the time.
- There's an occasional thumping noise when going over bumps. Tie rods inner and outer are new, sway bar links new, ball joints are fine, control arm bushings are old but ok, sway bar bushings are ok. Struts were just replaced as you already know. All that makes me think that CV joints could have been damaged while I installed new struts :(.
- I think I remember seeing an opening on one of the outer CV boots.

What do you guys think? I will appreciate your comments, I honestly am getting a bit desperate and this is turning into an endurance contest between me and my windstar!!!

Thanks in advance,

Oscar.

I would replace the sway bar bushings ... they can become quite enlarged, but yet "look OK". Not a big expense if you do the labor.

for sure do the sway bar bushings. Pretty quick job, and do them both regardless of what they "look" like. If it's a double clunk that you hear I'd say for sure part of the problem anyway is those bushings.

Dropping the sub frame isn't as scary as it sounds, I just used 2 bottle jacks under each area and gradually lowered them until I could get my box wrench in.

Hi guys, It's me again.

I"ve been thinking if it's possible that the CV joints are causing the noise. Even when I tried to not let them hang too much as the FSM states, there is still a chance, knowing my luck...

The only time I've heard a bad CV joint was with a 92 Buick Century which would only make a loud clicking when the wheel was all the way to the right and only under acceleration. I've been googling for CV joint failure but it's still not clear to me if it can be my problem, all they say is either clicking/thumping noises.

The symptoms I'm getting are:

- Noise when turning the wheels (to both sides) specially at stand still.
- LOTS of vibration felt through the steering wheel at stand still.
- Noise is only present after driving for some time.
- Vibration is present all the time.
- There's an occasional thumping noise when going over bumps. Tie rods inner and outer are new, sway bar links new, ball joints are fine, control arm bushings are old but ok, sway bar bushings are ok. Struts were just replaced as you already know. All that makes me think that CV joints could have been damaged while I installed new struts :(.
- I think I remember seeing an opening on one of the outer CV boots.

What do you guys think? I will appreciate your comments, I honestly am getting a bit desperate and this is turning into an endurance contest between me and my windstar!!!

Thanks in advance,

Oscar.

Does the noise still occur with both front wheels off the ground?

I would get good bushings....there are cheap and there are good ones.
Also....I know my '96 could come with 1 of 2 different size sway bars......each requiring a different size bushing.......the size difference is very slight...but you DO want to make sure that you get the correct size.
If you get them through a FORD dealer......make SURE to use your VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) to look up the part, as that will direct you to the correct size for your vehicle.
This applies also to the ONLINE dealership parts departments on the internet.......they tell you that they prefer that you enter the VIN in doing your search....and won't guarentee correct fit (as is free exchange of wrong part) if you don't use it.
I know that it can be a pain to get the VIN when you are ordering......but it is well worth it in order to get the correct part.
I have wondered if folks in some of the posts that report the replacement bushings not lasting.....if sometimes they got the wrong size?

Steering "resonates"......common issue with the windstar is the tie rod ends "drying out".
I got MANY miles and years out of mine by greasing mine using a grease needle.
You have to be careful to NOT over grease......
A grease needle is a needle that has a grease fitting on the end.....you snap it into your grease gun and poke it into the boot over the tie rod end or lower ball joint....and pump a SMALL amount of grease in.
You don't want to make a balloon out of the boot....
When the tie rod ends / ball joints go dry from lack of grease.....the effort required of the power steering assist increases.....could be part of the noise.
When you here a Windstar that "creaks" when the person turns the wheel in a parking lot.....it is most likely those tie rod ends.

Changing the power steering fluid is about the MOST common way to quiet a noisy power steering pump......I like to do it before it makes noise....and it sounds like you don't really have a noisy one yet.

One other cause for "resonance" was addressed in a TSB (at least for my '96) where they changed the size of one of the pulleys......some harmonic was happening under certain conditions that was causing the noise.

The other thing that can happen is the bearings in the idler pulley and the tensioner pulley can wear out....(you do NOT add lubricant to these) and cause noise.
I had a devil of a time trying to chase down that in my idler pulley.....new alternator, new power steering pump.....turned out to be the idler pulley bearings....but it was super hard to find because it would only make the noise (and it was loud) under certain RPM conditions......not at idle.......and the pulley felt fine when I spun it with the belt off.
Getting that bolt to move is another story.....

Thank you 12Ounce, Piper, windstartled and wiswind; I appreciate your time.

I replaced the sway bar bushings just for peace of mind but didn't help on the noise, it did help with the clunk though. That's one less concern.

Windstartled, I haven't been able to check if the noise still occurs with the wheels off the ground, I will make a short trip tomorrow and will carry the floor jack with me just to check. I'll let you know; in the meantime, I wonder what difference would it make to have the wheels of the ground and what it would indicate?

Wiswind, the tie rod ends are relatively new (about a year old and not that much mileage) but I'll double check the grease (replacements came with grease fittings). I'll surely replace the steering fluid, just need to find some time to do it (my uncle broke his left ankle and I offered to take care of him, in fact that's the main reason I need the windstar available at all times).

I've uploaded a video on youtube to show you the noise. I kept driving within a parking lot while turning the wheels form side to side; near to the end of the video you can also hear the "resonating", which I blame on the old fluid (it can be heard 3 times at 41,46 and 52 seconds).

http://youtu.be/8JQA65XX3So

Thanks in advance guys, I really appreciate it.

Oscar.

I wonder if someone loosened the four nuts that hold the strut-top to the wheel well and did not tightened them back properly? I would check these as well as the center shaft and nut that comes up thru the strut it self .... something could be loose at both locations.

BTW, If you take both bar links off on both sides ... and tie the anti-sway bar up so it can't strike anything ... then go for a slow, cautious test drive ... you may make some discoveries. Don't leave the suspension this way after the test drive.

Thanks 12Ounce,

I was thinking the same and checked the 3 top strut nuts and shaft nut for proper torque the day after I took it in for an alignment but they were all fine. I guess I'll do the sway bar thing, it's not that hard to remove the nut after all.

Off topic I wonder if gas shocks/struts show the same wear symptom as hydraulics, I'm asking because when I took the front struts, I was able to compress them very easily and wouldn't return to normal position; but the rear shocks were VERY hard to compress (KYB gas-a-just) and would return to normal position.

Oscar.

Hi guys, it's been some time.

About the chirping sound

I removed the sway bar links and the noise in the video is still present, so it's not a sway bar problem; I checked with the wheels off the ground and the noise was still there but not as constant and less noticeable.

Today I took my windstar back to the shop that did the alignment to ask if they had done anything that could cause the problem. They took a look and did some small changes in the alignment but still it didn't help; my last thought is that one of those new strut mounts is bad and causing the problem... I really don't want to have to deal with those darn things but I guess there is no choice :( .

About the resonating steering

As wiswind suggested that resonating on the steering could be because of dry tie rod ends, I asked them to add more grease just in case, but it didn't help so the next thing will be to change the fluid (I know, I know I'm a lazy guy... LOL).

An interesting note

As a final note I would like to say that the guy a the shop said that there is a problem with the camber setting and that there is a difference of 0.88º between both wheels. I know it' not adjustable, so does the guy. The interesting thing is that he suggested to either take the van to a body shop and use a port-o-power to pull on the wheel OR to replace the entire driver's side knuckle WTF!? I'm far from having good knowledge when it comes to alignments, correct me if I'm wrong but how is the knuckle (which holds the wheels and only acts as a pivot) supposed to correct camber problems?. I remember reading in the forum not long ago about positive camber problems with our windstars and remember you guys talking about sagging coil springs which could affect camber settings.

Needles to say that I don't trust any shops (specially tire ones) and I believe this guy is only trying to make money, specially when he wants ~$563 only in parts! I decided to walk away and never go back to that place.

I'm posting both alignment results:

Alignment done on 05/18/2012

Camber 0.06 * -0.82
Difference 0.88
Caster 2.84 * 2.98
Difference -0.14
Toe 0.03 * 0.02
Total toe 0.05

Alignment done on 05/04/2012

Camber 0.09 * -0.76
Difference 0.85
Caster 3.15 * 3.45
Difference -0.30
Toe -0.04 * -0.04
Total toe -0.08

Do you guys have any other thoughts about any of the 3 situations? I'll appreciate any comments, thanks in advance.

Oscar.

I just looked it up on Rockauto for the 2000 windstar, and they still list it for your year.
They have a "Camber plate" listed under the "suspension" tab......this part permits adjustment of camber.
The BAD news is that you have to mount it up top.....it is a modified top mounting plate for the strut/spring unit.
The only "normal" reason to need this is if the vehicle was in a accident or something happened to knock it out of camber alignment.
I have NO personal experience with alignment or this part.
Maybe I'm living under a rock or something.......but I would expect that the alignment technician would know about the camber plate.......so maybe you should look for a different shop to check your alignment?

Periodically changing the power steering fluid is a good thing to do.
I would use a fully synthetic ATF fluid....takes the heat better and better cold flow.
Mobil 1 ATF is a off the shelf fluid that would be good.
I have used Red Line Power Steering fluid and liked it.

Sway bar links......I did a quick read through of the thread.......and may have missed it.....were the sway bar links replaced?
It is hard to un-do them in the strut removal process and not damage them (if original).
I would get the Moog brand METAL ones with grease fittings.
The white/tan nylon ones that they put on mine were squeaking within 1 year........and even working grease into them did not solve it........the metal body Moog brand links quieted things down...and KEPT them quiet........at least that noise source.

I'm sorry I've been busy with my uncle, who broke his ankle and had to undergo surgery.

Thank you wiswind,

Yeah I agree with you, the shop should have known about the camber plate, I don't trust them anymore and I'm not going there anymore.

I've been reading the service manual and since the vehicle has never been in any major accident and knowing that the transmission has been rebuilt, I would think the subframe might be a little out of alignment which would definitely change the camber. I know it takes only a 19mm dowel to check if the subframe is aligned but I don't have any and I'm wondering if a long 19mm socket would do the trick...

Also, the manual state that a difference of 0.5º is acceptable, so my windstar having 0.85º in total, it's only 0.35º out of spec; I don't know how bad is that.

I still haven't changed the fluid but I have like 3 or 4 bottles of Mercon V from Ford stored since the last transmission fluid replacement; I'll use those ;) .

The sway bar links where replaced by me not long ago (around 6k miles at much) and are in good condition; the noise seems to be coming from the top of the strut, which again makes me think about a bad strut mount out of the box; the worst thing is that when I took that side out, the original mount was still OK! But I wanted to replace it for peace of mind... I really have bad luck!

Oscar.

PS. I have a video (which I will upload later) showing the A/C noise that I mentioned in the first posts, it hadn't happened lately until last saturday after a prolonged use of the rear A/C, however after turning it off it was still present until the engine was turned off. It seemed to be coming from the gas tank, you could think the fuel pump but the normal (louder) noise was still noticeable even with that loud humming noise. You'll know what I mean when I upload the video.

Here's a link to the video guys!

http://youtu.be/WAJ369wlf5A

Thanks in advance.

Oscar.

I wanted to give some update regarding this problem.

The suspension noise was INDEED a problem with the rubber insulators (spring seat) at the top of the strut; mounts seemed OK but the store gave me a new set anyway.

Regarding the humming noise that I showed in the video, I can't tell anything. I don't know where it's coming from. Haven't been able to point out where it is coming from; I removed the gas cap when the noise was present but didn't make much difference.

Anybody has any thoughts about such noise?

Thanks again,

Oscar.