93 Lesabre-problem

First I want to say thank you to everyone that contributes on this forum. The other day my 93 Lesabre wouldn't start and I came right here to find out some ideas, and there were plenty. Here's what happened: When I first got the car, upon starting it ran rough for several seconds then would even out. I also noticed that the cruise didn't work. I had been told the car had an engine swap, and after reading a lot of stuff on here, I traced the problem to off all things a missing vacuum line. I put one on and it solved both problems. Now, for the past several months, when I start the car the SRS light flashes a few times, it runs rough for a few seconds, then evens out and performs flawlessly. The other day I started it, it ran for a second then died. I did this several times with the same result. I managed to get it into the garage and came to this forum. Here's what I have done, all with advice from this forum: I removed the ICM and had it tested, and it checked out OK. The coils seem fine, and the test I saw on here for them is a little out of my league. I WAS able to use a multi-meter though and check both the power and ground on the MAF and they were good. I bought some MAF cleaner, sprayed out the MAF really good, and generally cleaned the outside with a rag, (personal peeve) I DID NOT touch the wires inside with anything but the spray. I of course had cleaned the connectors to the ICM and the MAF, so I put it all back together and it started right up, smooth as can be, much smoother than normal. Like an idiot I did not take not of whether the SRS light was flashing, but as smooth as it was running I figure not. Well, it ran for about a minute, then just died. It started right back up, but ran a shorter run. The next two attempts brought some kind of small blowback so I quit.
While working I had noticed that several of the vacuum lines running across the throttle body were out of line, different colors, and just generally looked like crap, so I bought a bunch of new line and replaced it all. They went to a small black plastic piece (about an inch or so square) that had several lines going to them from both sides, one of them being the one I had found missing when I bought the car. It was bolted to what I assume is the intake, right next to the throttle body and all the linkage. I took this off and the tiny gasket was in about a hundred pieces, so I replaced it and bolted it all back down, cleaning connectors the whole time.
I put it all back together, and it started right up, no SRS light, but with an ever so slight roughness for a couple seconds before it evened out at a GREAT idle. (The car usually idles slightly high upon first start and I let it go down before I put it in gear) I let it run for about 10 minutes, then took it out on the road a little bit and it did great. An hour later, I went to the main road and got it up to 70 or so just to make sure it was going to run. After about 7 miles I felt a stumble or two, and by the time I pulled in to the store it was running pretty rough, then it would even out, then back to rough. It only died once but there is obviously something still going on with it. Driving down the road you can feel an ocassional stumble
Now, I am ignorant of cars. I have learned by doing, and at least I got the dang thing running great for a while anyway.
Thank you all again, and any more ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Do you have any codes? Have you checked the Idle Air Control (IAC), or the EGR?

SRS should have nothing to do with a rough idle.....

Try disconnecting the MAF when it runs bad.....check the vac line to the f/p regulator for fuel.....

Last COMPLETE TUNEUP?

Thanks to both of you. There are no codes, and I'll try disconnecting the MAF in the morning. I also forgot to mention that I went to the wires bundled under the kick panel. (the black grounds) They were dry and looked OK but I cleaned then to be sure. Can you tell me where both the EGR and the IAC are located? I will try to load a picture of the engine.

I assumed when you said the SRS (Air Bag) light was flashing, what you meant to say was, the SES (Service Engine Soon) light. Is this correct? As mentioned, the SRS has nothing to do with engine function. In addition, it appears that the EGR harness was disconnected and sitting on top of the air intake hose. Do you know why this harness was disconnected?

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/7011/vv066.jpg

BTW, the EGR is not visable in the pics you posted. If it has one, it should look similar to this:

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.rockauto.c om%2FSMP%2FEGV384T_PRIMARY.jpg&imagekey=951077-0&width=450

My mistake on the SRS light. I got used to calling it that on the car lot lol. It is the inflatable restraint light that flashes. As far as the EGR harness, I mentioned earlier that I had been told the car had an engine swap when I bought it. I posted about this dangling harness awhile back but got no responses, and since the car was running OK at the time I didn't worry about it a lot. There is a plug similar to it that plugs into the MAF (and just about the right length) so I assumed that the donor car had a different MAF setup. As far as an EGR I cannot find one on this engine.

Before I even tried to start the car this am I took off and cleaned the IAC and the TPS. All the very bad looking vacuum lines at the top left of the pic you captioned for me (man thanks for that!) have been replaced with fresh new ones with no kinks or twists. The car started and then died right off. It did this a couple times, so I unhooked the MAF and tried it again. It ran longer, (about 30 seconds rather than two) then died again. It will restart but just keeps dying.
I am no mechanic obviously, but I'm pretty mechanical and this car has kicked my butt, mostly due to my lack of knowledge I guess.
One question I have for sure. In the top left corner of the pic you captioned, there is a silver looking valve that has a vacuum tube running out one side and a fuel line underneath. It is held in with a snap ring. When I take off a small plastic screw on cover on the side of it a little fuel runs out. What is this thing?

I can't thank you enough for the advice you all have given a poor boy.

In the top left corner of the pic you captioned, there is a silver looking valve that has a vacuum tube running out one side and a fuel line underneath. It is held in with a snap ring. When I take off a small plastic screw on cover on the side of it a little fuel runs out. What is this thing?That "thing" is the fuel pressure regulator. Disconnect the vacuum line to see if there is any sign of raw fuel in the hose. Have you tested fuel pressure?? BTW, if the engine was replaced with an earlier L27, it may not have an EGR. The problem with this is, the PCM has provisions to control voltage and feedback from the EGR. With the terminal disconnected, that can not happen. If this the case, you would have any, or all EGR codes (56, 63, 64 or 65) every time you drive it. One more thing, when taking a better look at the engine pic, a bell rang in my head. It appears you have an LN3 engine, rather than an L27. The LN3 was install in 1988-1991 LeSabre. The obvious difference, is an one piece all aluminum UIM/LIM on the LN3. The L27 has a two piece intake, with a plastic UIM. With this being the case, there may more incompatibilities between the PCM/ECM on the two engines than originally thought.

OBD I Code Retrieval and Typical Code List (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=679458)

You know I haven't noticed any fuel at all in the vacuum hose, just at that nipple with the plastic cover. If this piece is bad obviously it wouldn't deliver the needed fuel? Remember please, you are dealing with an idiot lol. If it is the engine you think it is, (and believe me I have no doubt of that) then is it supposed to have an EGR? Also, why no Service Engine Light? I might investigate if it even has a bulb in it, and if not go hook it up to a machine to see if it has codes, though by your reckoning it should have plenty. One thing remains, however. This car has pretty much run without any starting problems for the last 60,000 miles, and I mean it just doesn't let me down, until now of course. Seems like if it was mixing up signals I would have had trouble all along, but again, I wouldn't know for sure.
Thank you again for your time and patience.

... As far as an EGR I cannot find one on this engine.

Before I even tried to start the car this am I took off and cleaned the IAC and the TPS. ...The car started and then died right off. It did this a couple times, so I unhooked the MAF and tried it again. It ran longer, (about 30 seconds rather than two) then died again. It will restart but just keeps dying....

It should have an EGR, so you may need to investigate this. Maybe you can take a picture of the other side of the engine so we might be able to see what is going on there.

Will it keep running if you keep the gas pedal pressed a little? I'm wondering if you damaged the IAC when you cleaned it, or if it was damaged before.

If the Fuel Pressure Regulator is leaking anywhere, you have a problem. In addition, it is possible whoever installed the engine, also changed the ECM/PCM, or at least the prom (if possible, or compatible). This may explain why the engine has performed well in the past. Who knows? BTW, IIRC an LN3 1988-1991 LeSabre engine did not have an EGR.

No, no matter how much I tried, I cannot keep it running. I was very, very careful when cleaning the components, but that doesn't mean I didn't mess one up. Hre are a lot of pictures of the engine as it sits right now. Sorry about all the tape. Like I said, I'm not really very good and try my best to not make mistakes that would make the problem worse. Thank you all!

Thanks for the pics! That appears to be an LN3 engine, which was last installed OEM in a LeSabre in 1991. Check fuel pressure and let us know what you find. Check at Prime (ignition on engine off) and at idle, then burping the engine rpm to 2K.

Here is a pic of an 1994 L27. The 1993 L27 was almost identical on the outside, with the exception of the EGR, which changed slightly in appearance. Notice the 2-piece intake with plastic upper. In addition, you can see the EGR in plain sight.

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/7574/94l27.jpg

I noticed in this pic, you appear to have leaking injector O-rings.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/142/vv1161.jpg
(http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=45409&d=1332977514)

And in this pic, you have an LIM gasket, or valve cover leak. Are there two valve cover gaskets in the front? If so, this will not work. You may also have gas leaking down the LIM onto the head & trans. Very dangerous!

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/3222/vv118.jpg

Boy am I glad I posted those. What a wealth of information you have given me. So, the car has no EGR due to it being an earlier engine. As far as the valve cover gaskets, that was my next project. There may very well be two on there, but I will find out and replace both sides. I assume I can look up how to replace the O-Rings on the injectors on here. Now, as far as your thought that I might have gas leaking onto the UIM and trans, where would this be coming from? The leaking O-Rings? As far as testing fuel pressure. how can I complete the testing if I can't keep the car running? I really appreciate your responses and you have helped me a lot! Thanks again.

Now, as far as your thought that I might have gas leaking onto the UIM and trans, where would this be coming from? The leaking O-Rings?Yes, that is where I would think it would be leaking.

As far as testing fuel pressure. how can I complete the testing if I can't keep the car running? I really appreciate your responses and you have helped me a lot!You can check the fuel pressure prime, without the engine running. All you have to do is install the gauge and turn the ignition switch to the RUN position. It should have 38-42 psi prime pressure. When the engine was running well, did you smell any gas vapors inside the car while driving?

I have never smelled fuel in the vehicle. First I'll check fuel pressure, then I'll put O-rings and valve cover gaskets on it, cleaning everything as I go. I'll look at the UIM gasket while I'm there and probably replace it also. That will be a start, and once that's done I'll take it from there. No sense in fixing a starting problem if the whole thing might turn into a fireball lol. I know I keep saying this, but thank you very much and I'll let you know what happens. Have a great day and be safe!



I meant to say LIM not UIM though I'll probably check and replace both.

...BTW, IIRC an LN3 1988-1991 LeSabre engine did not have an EGR.

I just learned something new today. I thought all cars had EGR valves to reduce combustion temperatures since the 70's. Guess I was wrong!

Yeah HotZ28 is the man. If he had worked at any dealership I ran he would be making double time and driving a brand new demo!

I just learned something new today. I thought all cars had EGR valves to reduce combustion temperatures since the 70's. Guess I was wrong!Thanks for the comment enslow. If you notice I said IIRC, which makes it possible that I do not remember correctly all the details from 25-yrs ago. I do remember that some 3800 engines during this time frame, did not have an EGR. Obviousley, we have one of those in this thread.

Thanks for the pics! That appears to be an LN3 engine, which was last installed OEM in a LeSabre in 1991. Check fuel pressure and let us know what you find. Check at Prime (ignition on engine off) and at idle, then burping the engine rpm to 2K.I need to revise this statement. I have been suffering from hay fever, due to extremely high pollen count in our area. In addition, my eyes have not been the best the last few days. :crying:

After looking once again (zooming in) on the engine, that could very well be an L27 from an Olds, Pontiac, or others. In the close-up view, I noticed that the UMI bolts to the LIM, which makes it a 2-piece manifold. The color is what was deceiving. Tap on the UIM with a wrench to see if it makes a metallic sound, or a dead sound that would indicate plastic.

Thanks for the comment enslow. If you notice I said IIRC, which makes it possible that I do not remember correctly all the details from 25-yrs ago. I do remember that some 3800 engines during this time frame, did not have an EGR. Obviousley, we have one of those in this thread.

Hotz28, I just learned one more thing. I was trying to figure out what international standard you were referring to with IIRC.... International Intake Recirculation Control?????

Now I get it, IIRC. Doh.

Thanks!

It is definitely metallic. I had another couple questions. The small (about an inch square or so) black 'box' that all those vacuum lines run into. (cruise, brake booster, fuel pressure regulator and others) What is the name of this item? I need to find a replacement gasket for it, since the one on it was in like 30 pieces. Also, are Felpro gaskets for the valve cover, UIM and LIM good products? And lastly, when I go to look for these parts should I be looking for ones for a 1991 engine? Is the a number on the engine itself that will tell the designation and line it came from?
Thanks!

You will probably not be able to find a gasket for the Vacuum Manifold. I would just clean both parts well and use Permatex black, or blue silicone, rather than trying to make a new gasket.

The cylinder head, intake manifold and engine will have casting numbers. The engine number is usually toward the rear of the engine, near the transmission. Use a flashlight or shoplight to read it. The head number is usually on the side of the head or under the valve cover. General Motors put the intake manifold number on the top of the manifold, except for in their aluminum manifolds. The number on an aluminum manifold is under the manifold. You must remove the manifold to read it.

Click Here (http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/4142/rebuilding_the_38l_buick_engine.aspx) for casting numbers. Of course the best way to determine what engine you have is to find the block casting number. If you can not see, or find the block number, go by the head number, which will be easy to see with the valve cover removed.

I am having a problem reading the block code, all I can see is a C, with GM underneath. Next to that is a no. that looks like 0202 or something. I removed the valve cover and could find no markings, but I wasn't disconnecting rocker arms to look under. I want a closer look at the block, and I am taking off the UIM anyway. My question: Fuel rail and lines are unbolted and disconnected but still attached to injectors. How do I get the fuel rail and injectors out away from the manifold? Thanks, and here's a couple pics.

I think the number is 25534244. Does that sound right? It was on top of the UIM after the the throttle body and I missed it until I removed the throttle body. I went to the link you gave me and I'm not so sure about how to read the numbers, whether it's just the ones listed or the ones in between the numbers listed. I have all the fuel rail off with the injectors still on bc I'm scared to just pull them off. I know the clips have something to do with it but those injectors are expensive and I don't want to mess it up. The backside look clean but you were sure right about that front leaking gas. I'll post a pic, and thanks. I would have never attempted this without your advice.

Double check the last digit in the 25534244. Could it be a '3'? If so, this is what you have. BTW, if you want to remove the injectors from the fuel rail, you have to remove the clips first.

•1990-’92 VIN L
The 3.8L block was updated with a one-piece rear seal in ’90. The Buick Regal was the only application for this engine in ’90, but the new “EV-6” motor was used for all the FWD cars and vans including the Lumina APV, Pontiac Transport and Olds Silouette from ’91 through ’92. Look for a block with either a 25532674 or 25534243 casting number.

Good morning, and thanks for the reply. I have some pictures of where I stand right now, and of course a couple of questions. I had initially taken off the square clips right at the rail/injector but when I pulled on the injector a little it didn't give easily so I didn't want to force it and break something. Is it just an O-ring up there holding it or is there a special way to do it? Does that small shiny silver clip release it somehow? I'd like to clean the injectors and rail but don't want to do it while it's all together.

As you can see in the pic, there's the number I gave you. I do still have some confusion over what that whole piece is called that it is stamped on. I know it's a stupid question, but that is the upper intake manifold?The number on the block is still obscured. I've cleaned and scrubbed it with a wire brush but still can't read it because of the angle. I need to take off the UIM? I think to be able to see it, which leads me to me next question. I took nine bolts off of it, 8 short and one long. Everything as far as I know is disconnected from it, but it will not budge and I don't want to pound or pry on it and damage it. Is there a special way to remove it without tearing it up? Also, in one picture of the UIM? there is a spring loaded mechanism covered by a plate. (plate off in pic) What is this part and does it come out of that hole? It looks pretty nasty. Do I replace it, clean it, or what?

Are those rockers supposed to be all crooked like that?

Thanks again for all your help, and have a good day

1. There is an o-ring at the top of injectors. Remove clip twist & turn to free.
2. Part # 25534244 is the UIM part number.
3. The plate removed from the UIM is to access the PCV valve. Remove the spring and you should see it down in the hole. I would replace it and use a new o-ring on the PCV.

http://parts.nalleygmc.com/images/parts/gm/fullsize/951107GM03-313.JPG

Well, I got it all apart and promptly found the casting number right on top of the lower intake, where I could have found it the whole time if I'd just done a little more wiping. However, your call on the LIM gasket was right on target. That side looks a LOT dirtier, and had more sludge buildup inside, and even the back looked lke it could use some TLC. All in all this whole operation ain't gonna hurt it, that's providing of course that I can get it all back together correctly, with no leaks or problems. I did manage to get that metal tube out without breaking it. First I removed the nut from the mounting bracket underneath the power steering pump (without removing the pump) that is attached to the metal tube and gently pulled it off the stud it was on. Then I took out that little screw next to where the tube enters the manifold (10mm) and with a very, very short one inch scraper (homemade after being broken off a few years ago) worked the manifold side to side from the transmission end, (barely moving it) the whole time sliding that scraper in the tiny gap between the end of that metal tube and the manifold where they connect. When it came out just far enough to get a screwdriver where the mounting bolt tab was, I kept moving it and slowly used the screwdriver to pry it out without bending it. Heck I'm pretty sure I can even get it back in.

A couple questions: What is an accurate but inexpensive torque wrench to get for this job, and where can I find out how to use one?
What's the best way to take the UIM, the LIM, and the throttle body and completely and totally clean them inside and out? I was thinking a tubful of gas and some scrubbing, but alarm bells are going off in my head so I'm sure there's a better way. I will look for a thread on this but I like sticking with a good horse.

Also, should I do anything other than clean all gasket surfaces inside that enigine? Is there something I can spray or pour in there and let it drain straight out the open plug in the pan? I hate to just go wiping around, leaving half off it on and half off. If I can't get most of it and leave no damaging sludge I don't want to mess with it.



Thanks for all your help and here is where she sits.

Try Harbor Freight (CLICK HERE) (http://www.harborfreight.com/storelocator/location/map#ky) for the torque wrench. Once you set the torque setting, it will click when set torque is reached.

Put paper towels in lifer valley to catch the scrapings of the gaskets. It would be better if you had a gallon of carb cleaner to soak the throttle body overnight (all sensors removed), but if you don't have that much in a container, you can use the spray cans & a toothbrush. It takes time & patience to remove all the carbon. I have used oven cleaner to melt the carbon, but you have to be careful and use rubber gloves & eye protection. If oven cleaner is left on aluminum too long, it will oxidize & turn black, then you will have to spray with aluminum cleaner & hose off again. Carb cleaner & brake cleaner are your best friend. I would not try to clean the carbon deposits from the lifter valley. Even with the pan plug removed, the residue released would settle in the oil pan and may create problems later.


(http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%280%29)

I appreciate it. I think you're right. I'm just going to buy a bunch of carb cleaner and soak everything (LIM, UIM, and throttle body) to make sure it's thouroughly clean. I'll let you know how it progresses, and I really do appreciate the help, and the patience.

To give a little more info to the great info HotZ28 has given, your engine now in the car is the first version of the L27, which was installed in 1991-92 Park Avenues, 1992 Lesabres, 1992 Olds Delta 88s, and 1992 Pontiac Bonnevilles, among others. The way to easily tell is the tell-tale tan metal intake hump. The 93-95 have a black plastic intake. The 1992 L27 does not have an EGR (I don't know about the 93-95s.) If the 93-95s DO have an EGR valve, and if your car's wiring has nothing to hook up to with the 1992 engine, then perhaps your car's computer is causing your problem by not receiving/sending correct signals based on missing EGR signals. You could try using a 1992 Lesabre computer from a pick and pull that also matches your car exactly, such as the same trim level, same radio, same ac controls, etc. (But again, that could be a waste of money without knowing if that is important--or if 1993-95s had EGRs, or if having the EGR missing or unhooked could cause your symptoms, all of which I'm not sure.) Heck, I think I have a 1992 Lesabre computer lying around the house I will sell you CHEAP (like $25.) Let me know if you are interested. (sarsipius23 at comcast.net)

Does the change from a plastic intake to metal intake change anything as far as your car's computer is concerned? I don't think so, but also I don't know.

But did you ever get the codes? Once your engine is all back together, check the codes by taking a paper clip and access the ALDL wiring harness located directly below the steering wheel towards the bottom of the dash trim panel. With the key off you want to bend the paper clip such that both ends are pointing the same direction and then push them into spots A and B on the harness (I believe they are on the passenger side of the harness) Then turn your key to the run position and look at the SES light and note the pattern of flashes. It will flash once, then twice (for "12") meaning that the system is working, which pattern it will repeat three times. Then it will flash a different two-number pattern for each stored trouble code (if any.)

Sorry about dropping out there for a minute. A family member broke a hip and I had to go out of state to handle that. I appreciate your narrowing down the engine for me. I've got a really good parts house where I live and I'm taking all the gaskets and everything in today to make sure the ones I purchase match up. I'll start putting it back together tomorrow after I finish cleaning the throttle body and intake units. The car may still not run correctly when I am through, (though of course I am hoping for that magical cure) but at least it won't be leaking gas, oil, and everything else all over the place, and it will be clean for sure. I can then figure out from there what is actually causing the problem, and may take you up on that computer. I suspect the problem may actually be either the TPS or IAC or MAF. I am now stuck driving a PT Cruiser and want my old junker back lol. Thanks again guys for all the advice and help.

Good afternoon everyone! I have a quick question: Do the rubber-like gaskets that go on the valve covers require the use of any black/blue silicone? If so, which is the best and does it go in both the groove on the cover and on the head itself, or just one or the other? Thanks a lot and have a good day!

Do not use silicone on either side of the valve cover gaskets!

Thank you very much! That's why I asked before I did anything. Will I use it on the intake gasket? Also, the upper piece of the intake (the part with the throttle body attached to it) had no gasket between it and the lower part. Is this right? I really appreciate your help!

Apply silicone on the top & bottom edge of the LIM end seals (just at the corners). The LIM & UIM have machined surfaces and there may not be a gasket available on this particular combination; however, it would be wise to apply a small coating of permatex gasket maker. This will ensure an air tight seal.

Got it! Thank you very much!

OK, hi everyone. I finally found an intake gasket to match this car. It actually came up listed as matching a 1993 Bonneville 3800. This engine did show that it carried an EGR, which mine doesn't, but the gasket matches perfectly so I'm guessing it's OK. My question: Now that I have also purchased a torque wrench, what is the proper sequence and torque for the bolts that connect the lower intake? Then, once I do that, what is the sequence and torque for the upper part of the intake? I can provide an aerial of the both pieces if needed. Thank you very much and have a good evening!

That info should be at autozone.com, repair guides.

Thanks for the advice. I looked all through their repair guide and nowhere is there a picture of my particular two piece intake, which has been the problem the whole time as far as identification for buying parts, (even down to valve cover gaskets) since the car has had an engine swap. It is a 3800 without an EGR valve. I took engine info gleaned from a user on here and tried that to no avail at the parts house. I have even looked online for hours and hours sorting through late 80's-mid 90's 3.8 parts catalogs and still cannot find this engine. I even called my GM dealership with the engine number, who said they could find the engine nowhere, if you can believe that. I have attached a couple close-ups of the two pieces of the intake. Maybe someone will recognize it and be able to tell me the proper sequence and torque of these two items. If not, maybe someone can provide me with advice on how to set a hot enough flame under this baby where she'll melt in like 6 seconds while I laugh crazily and dance around the flames. Just kidding. Thanks for the help, and have a good day!:)

Well, I appreciate all the help up to this point anyway. I guess this intake doesn't exist.

Well, it's a 3.8.......It's definitely not a "K" motor, so it has to be either a "C" or and "L" motor.....a "3" motor would be going too far back....

lol Yes it IS a 3.8. The only problem I have now (for the moment) is what sequence and torque to use on the two metal pieces of intake manifold. I mean, I know I am ignorant about working on cars, there's no doubt about that. But I can look stuff up on the computer (I thought) and I cannot find this info anywhere. I do not want to get it wrong.

Go to a Buick or former Pontiac shop....they willl have old manuals(even GM does not keep online manuals for pre-'98 vehicles).....look at 90-93 model for "H" cars(Bonneville, LeSabre).....will have pictures of the "L" and "C" motors, and specs....

Thank you. That is a good idea. I had called a dealership I worked at the other day only to find out that my buddy Pete, the service manager, had passed away. After absorbing that, I talked to the owner and he said I was free to come look all I wanted. They were actually a Chevy-Buick-Pontiac dealer back in the day. First Pontiac went away, then Obama stole their Chevy-Buick franchise. It's about a 120 mile trip one way ( I live in THE boonies) so I was trying to avoid it, but it looks like the way to go at this point. I obviously should have just bitten the bullet to begin with and bought a comprehensive tech manual before I started, or at least when I began having trouble indentifying the engine. Thanks again for the reply, and for all the others that have helped me. Have a great day everyone!

OK I got it all back together, and after double and triple checking everything went to start it. No go. It turns over but slowly kills the battery. I hooked juice up to it and tried it again,. It tried to start but finally ended up just giving a big 'puff'. I checked to make sure it was getting fuel and it is.

My question: The fuel pressure regulator on this car is attached to the fuel rail as in the picture before. How does this come out for replacement? I removed the snap ring holding it in, it turns freely, but will not come out. I pried on it slightly but am scared to death I will deform the fitting on the rail that it fits in. One thing I noticed was that even after depressurizing the fuel line at the nozzle beneath the regulator, fuel was still flowing out around the regulator once it was loose from the snap ring. I disconnected the battery and all, depressurized it again, but fuel still runs out. There is NO fuel in the vacuum line.

Any help would be appreciated. Is there something I should have done before I tried to start it?

OK I got it all back together, and after double and triple checking everything went to start it. No go. It turns over but slowly kills the battery. I hooked juice up to it and tried it again,. It tried to start but finally ended up just giving a big 'puff'. I checked to make sure it was getting fuel and it is.

My question: The fuel pressure regulator on this car is attached to the fuel rail as in the picture before. How does this come out for replacement? I removed the snap ring holding it in, it turns freely, but will not come out. I pried on it slightly but am scared to death I will deform the fitting on the rail that it fits in. One thing I noticed was that even after depressurizing the fuel line at the nozzle beneath the regulator, fuel was still flowing out around the regulator once it was loose from the snap ring. I disconnected the battery and all, depressurized it again, but fuel still runs out. There is NO fuel in the vacuum line.

Any help would be appreciated. Is there something I should have done before I tried to start it?

Make absolutely sure that there is no fuel pressure in the line when you take the fuel regulator off. You'd be suprised how long the pressure can remain in the system. I relieved the pressure on mine, and it still squirted on me! (Hint.... use safety goggles.... you really really really don't want gasoline in your eyes).

It should just twist out. The o-rings have probably sealed around it making it tough to get out. Pull and twist a little harder, and wear goggles!

I'll give her a try! Thanks!

Yes, remove fuel pressure by depressing the schraeder valve into a rag......remove the snap ring.....twist and pull....new regulator comes with orings.....sometimes the small one on the end, stays in the body at the bottom.....remove before installing new regulator...lube orings with petroleum jelly....make sure the snap ring is seated all around when installed....

Just so you know, I did everything TechII said, and the darn thing still squirted gasoline. Imagine what it might have been like if I didn't relieve the pressure!

Well, one of the many mistakes I made in this process was the plug wires. After sleeping a couple hours and working like a dog out in the hot sun on an asphalt roof all day, I had a thought. As I had disassembled the engine, I was very careful to number everything Itook off the car, including the wires. Well, not being a mechanic, I numbered the sp wires 1-6, straight down from the firewall to the radiator while they were still attached to the coil packs. For some reason, though, when I put them back on I matched the number on the wire to the number on the coil pack! No wonder the dang thing wouldn't even TRY to start! I switched them back, and well I hit the key and it started, then died right off like it was choking for air. Keep in mind that my original problem was a car that wouldn't stay running. It was only through this forum that HotZ28 pointed out all the leaks I had at the valve covers, injectors, and intake, so I decided to fix those first before even attempting to figure out why it wouldn't run, and maybe in the process I would cure the problem? (wishful thinking) I then came back to the forum and re-read everything that people had told me about the car not staying running. I disconnected the MAF and tried it. It ran a little longer, then died again. Then, just for kicks, I reconnected the MAF and disconnected the IAC and the damn thing started right up! I let it go a minute, then both sides of the engine began smoking badly so I shut it off. I re-connected the IAC and it started right up again, and KEPT running, blowing smoke EVERYWHERE. (maybe this action reset the IAC? I don't know) Thankfully it was from the sides and smelled of oil, so I clamped down on the valve cover bolts a little and it went away completely in the back and mostly in the front. (I think I may have misaligned the gasket when I put it back in and will remove and check it in the morning) I cleared out the workspace in front of the car and DROVE it out, no hood and all. I took it about 8-9 miles down the road and brought it back. It didn't hesitate at all, ran and drove smoothly, and doesn't appear to have any leaks other than the above mentioned valve cover gasket.

I can't thank you all enough. I wouldn't even have ATTEMPTED this project without the knowledge that there are people on this forum that will help you JUST for the sake of helping you. You all provide a great service to people that have the will but not the knowledge or money for repairs. The car may blow up tomorrow, but with your help this old car salesman just took off the top half of an engine, put it back together, and it still WORKED! Again, thank all of you, and have a great day!

LMAO. My elation has been short-lived. I went out this am and removed and fixed the misaligned valve cover gasket, buttoned everything up (I'm glad I didn't put the hood back on) and started it. It died right off. I tried the combo I described before. I disconnected the MAF, it ran a second longer, then died. I disconnected the IAC next, it ran even longer, chugging like crazy, then died. I am thinking IAC, but it's not cheap and thought I'd try one more time and see what you all thought. Thanks!

To inspect the idle air control motor, remove the motor from the T/B leaving the wires connected. Turn ignition "ON" (do not start) while watching the idle air control motor. It should move in, or out. If the pintel does not respond, more than likely it has failed and would require replacement. In addition, you should check wiring ground/voltage (5-v) to the motor. This would also be a good time to clean the passages & pintel (pointed end) with carb cleaner.

I picked up an IAC from Pick-a-Part for something like 5 or 10 bucks. And that's up here in Canada. I'd bet in the US they'd almost give those things away.

Thank you. I'll check that right now. I do know that both the tip of the IAC and the port that it closes/enters into is spotless.

To inspect the idle air control motor, remove the motor from the T/B leaving the wires connected. Turn ignition "ON" (do not start) while watching the idle air control motor. It should move in, or out. If the pintel does not respond, more than likely it has failed and would require replacement. In addition, you should check wiring ground/voltage (5-v) to the motor. This would also be a good time to clean the passages & pintel (pointed end) with carb cleaner.


I don't know if the 93 is any different from the 99, but when I did this test, I couldn't see it move the first time (it moved out when I turned the ignition off, not when I turned it on). When I tried it again, the pintle popped right out! (hint, do this test with the IAC in a plastic bag so you don't lose all the parts)

HotZ28, does the 93 pintle push in by hand? If so, I'd recommend pushing it in by hand first, then cycling the ignition while watching the pintle.

That's exactly what happened when I did the test on mine. Hopefully, the only pieces are a spring and the spindle thing. I threaded it back in, did it again, and it popped out again. The whole thing looks like crap down by the threads so I cleaned it. I'm pretty sure it doesn't push in by itself. I think I tried at one time but can't remember. Either way, does this mean it's bad? If not, let me ask an even more stupid question. Which of the wires is the ground? Thanks!