EGR Valves Dirty
Searles Lewis
03-05-2012, 02:07 PM
I asked a question without switching subjects and re-posting. I received no responses at all.
My friend checked the plenum yesterday, and it was hot by the #1 valve, and then I was able to find an egr reference in one of the poss I cannot fidn now, but it seems according to the post, if the egr metering valve is plugged, it can cause that, and make the #1 cylinder get all of the o2 or egr, and cause that to superheat.
This makes sense. I am however unsure how to clean out the intake egr thoroughly. I bought some mineral spirits, and a pick to pull out the junk. What else can I do to remove the build up? Canb I pour b-12 chemtool into the hole, and then re-start it?
BTW, I wanted to do the 0171 & 0174 fix back in January, but delayed, due to sub-freezing temps, and the fa ct my friend told me it was something else. I wish I'd done it earlier, and checked anyway.
Any useful replies would be appreciated. I have to wait until it warms up enough to do the work!
My friend checked the plenum yesterday, and it was hot by the #1 valve, and then I was able to find an egr reference in one of the poss I cannot fidn now, but it seems according to the post, if the egr metering valve is plugged, it can cause that, and make the #1 cylinder get all of the o2 or egr, and cause that to superheat.
This makes sense. I am however unsure how to clean out the intake egr thoroughly. I bought some mineral spirits, and a pick to pull out the junk. What else can I do to remove the build up? Canb I pour b-12 chemtool into the hole, and then re-start it?
BTW, I wanted to do the 0171 & 0174 fix back in January, but delayed, due to sub-freezing temps, and the fa ct my friend told me it was something else. I wish I'd done it earlier, and checked anyway.
Any useful replies would be appreciated. I have to wait until it warms up enough to do the work!
Searles Lewis
03-05-2012, 02:09 PM
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t1054239-pinging_problem_tracing_it_s_cause.html
Says wiswind already solved this for someone. Could Wiswind confirm the solution for me now?
What do I use to clean off the egr valve thoroughly? How do I know if it is clean enough? Pick and mineral spirits?
Says wiswind already solved this for someone. Could Wiswind confirm the solution for me now?
What do I use to clean off the egr valve thoroughly? How do I know if it is clean enough? Pick and mineral spirits?
olopezm
03-05-2012, 03:25 PM
Hi, you got no responses because your problem was already being addressed in the previous threads ;).
Cleaning the EGR ports is easy and you want to do it as dry as possible, you don't want that junk going into the cylinders. So I would advise you to hold a vacuum cleaner close to each port as you clean it with a pick until you get all the junk out.
Doing it at the same time while you do the isolator bolt fix (p0171 and 174) is your best bet.
Oscar.
Cleaning the EGR ports is easy and you want to do it as dry as possible, you don't want that junk going into the cylinders. So I would advise you to hold a vacuum cleaner close to each port as you clean it with a pick until you get all the junk out.
Doing it at the same time while you do the isolator bolt fix (p0171 and 174) is your best bet.
Oscar.
catvents
03-05-2012, 03:54 PM
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t1054239-pinging_problem_tracing_it_s_cause.html
Says wiswind already solved this for someone. Could Wiswind confirm the solution for me now?
What do I use to clean off the egr valve thoroughly? How do I know if it is clean enough? Pick and mineral spirits?
THe following link is included to the third subject of the Windstar forum
Code P171/174 update.....
It is a "bible" for whom who want to fix these code and ALSO the EGR port buildup cleaning. ( it is dry carbon that you have to remove (scratch out) without using any cleaning stuff. THe pictures on this link show you some big plans to clean that. Almost everybody here on this forum has followed this important informations for how to fix that EGR ports problems.
JUst follow these clear instructions
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html
Says wiswind already solved this for someone. Could Wiswind confirm the solution for me now?
What do I use to clean off the egr valve thoroughly? How do I know if it is clean enough? Pick and mineral spirits?
THe following link is included to the third subject of the Windstar forum
Code P171/174 update.....
It is a "bible" for whom who want to fix these code and ALSO the EGR port buildup cleaning. ( it is dry carbon that you have to remove (scratch out) without using any cleaning stuff. THe pictures on this link show you some big plans to clean that. Almost everybody here on this forum has followed this important informations for how to fix that EGR ports problems.
JUst follow these clear instructions
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html
Searles Lewis
03-05-2012, 05:26 PM
THe following link is included to the third subject of the Windstar forum
Code P171/174 update.....
It is a "bible" for whom who want to fix these code and ALSO the EGR port buildup cleaning. ( it is dry carbon that you have to remove (scratch out) without using any cleaning stuff. THe pictures on this link show you some big plans to clean that. Almost everybody here on this forum has followed this important informations for how to fix that EGR ports problems.
JUst follow these clear instructions
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html
Okay, well mine are pretty thoroughly covered with gook. I'd already went ahead and cleaned it with mineral spirits, and was told by someone else they dry off fast, which doesn't seem to be true.
"Clean these parts with mineral spirits. " I did that, because honestly, I've never seen so much crud on it, and the guy said the same thing. He said it was grody. Mine actually had black stuff coating it. I could not remove it with the pick and towel, and was able to remove most of it with the mineral spirits soaked into the towel. It was black, and like tar.
I have left it for two hours, drying, and will hook it back up when I get back home. 3 holes were completely blocked. I do not have a shop vac, nor access to one at all. My friend refused to lend his to me, and I have no other options.
I was able to rinse some of it out. I also had to pick the rest, with a nut pick like you use at Christmas. It was gummy and like hardened black fish roe.
I asked here, basically because everyone else I spoke to told me I was over-reacting to fixing it, they said we live in the southwest, it will dry of with the 20-30% humidity we have. I posted here, didn't get a response, waited and checked again ,then dove in, so it is too late now. I also got a lot of it on my hands ,and it appears to have made me high. I do not have any rubber gloves, so I guess I'll just have to wait it out.
I plan on going home, and re-attaching the plenum top, and starting it up.
The isolator bolts did not have any black residue on them at all, and are green-shouldered, so I am guessing they have already been replaced. I was supposed to get a ride from the relative this morning, but she is crazy, and woke us up early, screaming and hreatening until I got out an mp3 player to record, and she stopped. She accused me of wrecking her computer, which I had not done, and then stormed out. When she came back ,she just refused to speak to me, apologized to my Honey, and left.
Upshot is, our car died, or was malfunctioning and misfiring. I keep telling people the same thing , do not have a car right now, have to depend on other people's judgments. My friend had been telling me to go stepwise, and originally told me the plenum was fine ,then about-faced last night, said number 1 valve was theonly clean one, must be the problem one. I checked wiswind's posted answer, and then cleaned the egr posrts, they were blocked shut, symptoms matched my experience, friend confirmed it, and I went ahead already.
I was trying to avoid any problems with explosions, because since I started this repair gig about a month or two ago, everyone has told my, one wrong addition of something to the engine could cause an explosion or engine failure. I guess I don't know what to believe, and I have had to deal with a literally psychotic relative who will promise to take me for parts, then backs out, and claims I am crazy. My honey is mentally retarded/learning disabled, freaks when this happens, and does nothing. So it has been me, dealing with blow-ups, bad information, conflicting information, and having to guess. I relied on my friend's experience, and autozone told me if I took off the plenum, instead of 6 gaskets, I'd have to buy an intake kit which cost 60$, plus rtv, and I had 35$. My relative threatened my honey if she helped pay, and we are both on disability, so I had to wait each time until my crazy relative calmed down to get a ride. Most days, all things considered, I can work on the car from noon to 5, need to buy parts in the afternoon, have no idea how things are going to go.
I'm not trying to blow you guys off, but if you get threatened enough, or yelled at, you tend to be much more likely to be reserved, and also rely on other people's judgment. My friend told me yesterday what it was, but dx'd it as the egr thing which he told me would not affect anything at all, since it just re-used gases, and also stated the cylinder was having a problem, after telling me the compression was fine.
When I do get to talk to him, I have to pre-approve it with his wife, as she decides when he does and does not. She had previously tried getting us into trouble with the state with our kids, and she is intentionally difficult and has a rep for it(she works with an org that counsels families in trouble with cps, so she has vested interest in doing that) so even tho we have passed every investigation with flying colors, she totally hates me. More so, since I was right. BTW, did I mention she had a foster kid taken out of her custody, yet still contracts for teachign parents what to do, and I helped my honey get cusotdy, full and total, or her 4 and helped raise them, with the most difficult telling me I was right with everything I did?
For tools, I have a craftsman set of socket wrenches, a pair of pliers, a jack and jackstands, a haynes book, and whatever I can borrow for the half hour I usually get to speak with him, in between the crazy rants from my relative and my helping my honey figure things out.
That's why I kept asking-I had different responses, didn't want to piss someone off I needed for parts or knowhow, and only had so much time to try.
Relative humidity is 11% right now. I was under the impression the mineral spirits would throughly dry. I could not scrape and wipe the stuff off, and two friends from church explained since it was an intake for the engine, if I just poured it and wiped, it would wash off. It did. They said it would dry, without causing an explosion. I really hope that is true.
That is where I am. In the past two days, the ranting relative went thru town, to the library, to the grocery store, telling everyone how abusive I was, and etc. I did not do anything at all. My Honey freaked, and became obedient as a way to deal with it, with her. She has since apologized.
So, I'm stuck, at 3:12 pm, wondering if my car is cleaned and fixed, or from what you guys have stated it will now ignite and become a fireball. My choice is stay where I am and wait indefinitely for it to dry, or just go take a chance. The crazy relative has admitted to me alone ,she had clicked on things going into windows which installed different drivers for usb stuff, and then uninstalled others, and downloaded "by mistake" a virus, which she blamed on me in public, but in private admitted she did. It took me 4 hours Saturday night to fix all of it. That morning, she re-booted, and the windows pop up told her to install something, and she did it, which killed it.
I've already spoken to her therapist, I know she is psychotic. But she was my ride. My friend gets home in about an hour, which means I have maybe, that half hour window of tools and help. I am going home, gonna start it up, after re-attaching the plenum cover, and hope it works. The ports are mostly clear, I dug out and washed/rinsed the egr with mineral spirits, like it seemed to say, and my two church friends told me to do.
Now you more throughly know my situation ,what would you have me do? I am going to re-attach the intake plenum top, and start it up.
Code P171/174 update.....
It is a "bible" for whom who want to fix these code and ALSO the EGR port buildup cleaning. ( it is dry carbon that you have to remove (scratch out) without using any cleaning stuff. THe pictures on this link show you some big plans to clean that. Almost everybody here on this forum has followed this important informations for how to fix that EGR ports problems.
JUst follow these clear instructions
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html
Okay, well mine are pretty thoroughly covered with gook. I'd already went ahead and cleaned it with mineral spirits, and was told by someone else they dry off fast, which doesn't seem to be true.
"Clean these parts with mineral spirits. " I did that, because honestly, I've never seen so much crud on it, and the guy said the same thing. He said it was grody. Mine actually had black stuff coating it. I could not remove it with the pick and towel, and was able to remove most of it with the mineral spirits soaked into the towel. It was black, and like tar.
I have left it for two hours, drying, and will hook it back up when I get back home. 3 holes were completely blocked. I do not have a shop vac, nor access to one at all. My friend refused to lend his to me, and I have no other options.
I was able to rinse some of it out. I also had to pick the rest, with a nut pick like you use at Christmas. It was gummy and like hardened black fish roe.
I asked here, basically because everyone else I spoke to told me I was over-reacting to fixing it, they said we live in the southwest, it will dry of with the 20-30% humidity we have. I posted here, didn't get a response, waited and checked again ,then dove in, so it is too late now. I also got a lot of it on my hands ,and it appears to have made me high. I do not have any rubber gloves, so I guess I'll just have to wait it out.
I plan on going home, and re-attaching the plenum top, and starting it up.
The isolator bolts did not have any black residue on them at all, and are green-shouldered, so I am guessing they have already been replaced. I was supposed to get a ride from the relative this morning, but she is crazy, and woke us up early, screaming and hreatening until I got out an mp3 player to record, and she stopped. She accused me of wrecking her computer, which I had not done, and then stormed out. When she came back ,she just refused to speak to me, apologized to my Honey, and left.
Upshot is, our car died, or was malfunctioning and misfiring. I keep telling people the same thing , do not have a car right now, have to depend on other people's judgments. My friend had been telling me to go stepwise, and originally told me the plenum was fine ,then about-faced last night, said number 1 valve was theonly clean one, must be the problem one. I checked wiswind's posted answer, and then cleaned the egr posrts, they were blocked shut, symptoms matched my experience, friend confirmed it, and I went ahead already.
I was trying to avoid any problems with explosions, because since I started this repair gig about a month or two ago, everyone has told my, one wrong addition of something to the engine could cause an explosion or engine failure. I guess I don't know what to believe, and I have had to deal with a literally psychotic relative who will promise to take me for parts, then backs out, and claims I am crazy. My honey is mentally retarded/learning disabled, freaks when this happens, and does nothing. So it has been me, dealing with blow-ups, bad information, conflicting information, and having to guess. I relied on my friend's experience, and autozone told me if I took off the plenum, instead of 6 gaskets, I'd have to buy an intake kit which cost 60$, plus rtv, and I had 35$. My relative threatened my honey if she helped pay, and we are both on disability, so I had to wait each time until my crazy relative calmed down to get a ride. Most days, all things considered, I can work on the car from noon to 5, need to buy parts in the afternoon, have no idea how things are going to go.
I'm not trying to blow you guys off, but if you get threatened enough, or yelled at, you tend to be much more likely to be reserved, and also rely on other people's judgment. My friend told me yesterday what it was, but dx'd it as the egr thing which he told me would not affect anything at all, since it just re-used gases, and also stated the cylinder was having a problem, after telling me the compression was fine.
When I do get to talk to him, I have to pre-approve it with his wife, as she decides when he does and does not. She had previously tried getting us into trouble with the state with our kids, and she is intentionally difficult and has a rep for it(she works with an org that counsels families in trouble with cps, so she has vested interest in doing that) so even tho we have passed every investigation with flying colors, she totally hates me. More so, since I was right. BTW, did I mention she had a foster kid taken out of her custody, yet still contracts for teachign parents what to do, and I helped my honey get cusotdy, full and total, or her 4 and helped raise them, with the most difficult telling me I was right with everything I did?
For tools, I have a craftsman set of socket wrenches, a pair of pliers, a jack and jackstands, a haynes book, and whatever I can borrow for the half hour I usually get to speak with him, in between the crazy rants from my relative and my helping my honey figure things out.
That's why I kept asking-I had different responses, didn't want to piss someone off I needed for parts or knowhow, and only had so much time to try.
Relative humidity is 11% right now. I was under the impression the mineral spirits would throughly dry. I could not scrape and wipe the stuff off, and two friends from church explained since it was an intake for the engine, if I just poured it and wiped, it would wash off. It did. They said it would dry, without causing an explosion. I really hope that is true.
That is where I am. In the past two days, the ranting relative went thru town, to the library, to the grocery store, telling everyone how abusive I was, and etc. I did not do anything at all. My Honey freaked, and became obedient as a way to deal with it, with her. She has since apologized.
So, I'm stuck, at 3:12 pm, wondering if my car is cleaned and fixed, or from what you guys have stated it will now ignite and become a fireball. My choice is stay where I am and wait indefinitely for it to dry, or just go take a chance. The crazy relative has admitted to me alone ,she had clicked on things going into windows which installed different drivers for usb stuff, and then uninstalled others, and downloaded "by mistake" a virus, which she blamed on me in public, but in private admitted she did. It took me 4 hours Saturday night to fix all of it. That morning, she re-booted, and the windows pop up told her to install something, and she did it, which killed it.
I've already spoken to her therapist, I know she is psychotic. But she was my ride. My friend gets home in about an hour, which means I have maybe, that half hour window of tools and help. I am going home, gonna start it up, after re-attaching the plenum cover, and hope it works. The ports are mostly clear, I dug out and washed/rinsed the egr with mineral spirits, like it seemed to say, and my two church friends told me to do.
Now you more throughly know my situation ,what would you have me do? I am going to re-attach the intake plenum top, and start it up.
Searles Lewis
03-05-2012, 05:33 PM
THe following link is included to the third subject of the Windstar forum
Code P171/174 update.....
It is a "bible" for whom who want to fix these code and ALSO the EGR port buildup cleaning. ( it is dry carbon that you have to remove (scratch out) without using any cleaning stuff. THe pictures on this link show you some big plans to clean that. Almost everybody here on this forum has followed this important informations for how to fix that EGR ports problems.
JUst follow these clear instructions
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html
They are as clean as I can get them. The gunk I could get, multiple scrapings with a little mineral spirits added, and then scraped out again, and the mineral spirits soaked towel used to wipe and scritch as much as I could off of the little scooped brass it sat in. It is no longer totally black, just some gray spots and brass color now.
Is that good enough?
Code P171/174 update.....
It is a "bible" for whom who want to fix these code and ALSO the EGR port buildup cleaning. ( it is dry carbon that you have to remove (scratch out) without using any cleaning stuff. THe pictures on this link show you some big plans to clean that. Almost everybody here on this forum has followed this important informations for how to fix that EGR ports problems.
JUst follow these clear instructions
http://leckemby.net/windstar/windstar01.html
They are as clean as I can get them. The gunk I could get, multiple scrapings with a little mineral spirits added, and then scraped out again, and the mineral spirits soaked towel used to wipe and scritch as much as I could off of the little scooped brass it sat in. It is no longer totally black, just some gray spots and brass color now.
Is that good enough?
Searles Lewis
03-05-2012, 05:46 PM
Hi, you got no responses because your problem was already being addressed in the previous threads ;).
Cleaning the EGR ports is easy and you want to do it as dry as possible, you don't want that junk going into the cylinders. So I would advise you to hold a vacuum cleaner close to each port as you clean it with a pick until you get all the junk out.
Doing it at the same time while you do the isolator bolt fix (p0171 and 174) is your best bet.
Oscar.
Okay, could not get the isolator bolts, due to problems I described. I got my checks, and money, am only lacking a way to get there.
I have already poured the mineral spirits onto the brass piece with the 1/4 inch hole.
What can I expect from that? explosion? Two seconds of racing engine?
Cleaning the EGR ports is easy and you want to do it as dry as possible, you don't want that junk going into the cylinders. So I would advise you to hold a vacuum cleaner close to each port as you clean it with a pick until you get all the junk out.
Doing it at the same time while you do the isolator bolt fix (p0171 and 174) is your best bet.
Oscar.
Okay, could not get the isolator bolts, due to problems I described. I got my checks, and money, am only lacking a way to get there.
I have already poured the mineral spirits onto the brass piece with the 1/4 inch hole.
What can I expect from that? explosion? Two seconds of racing engine?
wiswind
03-05-2012, 07:28 PM
My windstar was a '96, so the leckemby isolator bolt fix does not apply to mine, since it was applicable only to the 1999 and newer Windstar when they went to the "improved" upper intake manifold arrangment......multi-part instead of the 1 molded unit that they used on the 1996 through 1998.
Here is a picture of what the clogged EGR ports on mine looked like.
http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/27317/1201985658011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1201985658011220610TTdHYb)
The clogged ports are clearly shown in the bottom 2 intake ports.
They only seem to build that junk up right there in the 1/4" hole.
I would not pour any liquid down into the EGR port, and what will happen when you start the vehicle up will depend upon how much you poured down.
To remove the fluid, you would need to remove the EGR valve....could be a bit of work.
You would then use something like brake cleaner.....and catch it as it runs out the EGR valve location.
DO NOT try to flush it out with the EGR valve in place!!!!
I mention brake cleaner because it dries clean leaving no residue.
I would really like to have cleaned up the IMR "butterfly" plates, visible in the very top intake ports in the picture....however, I did very little cleaning of them because, as mentioned in a post above...you do NOT want to flush that crud on down into the intake.....as it will then be drawn right into the cylinders.
BEST way to clean the EGR ports is with a small pick....and a vaccum........
In the absence of a vaccum cleaner......a rag will do just fine.
I used a "pipe cleaner" (available at craft stores).....and a rag to clean them.
I picked junk out.....and then "buffed" them up with the pipe cleaner.
One could wet the pipe cleaner with a solvent and wipe with it if they wanted.
Here is a picture of what the clogged EGR ports on mine looked like.
http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/27317/1201985658011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1201985658011220610TTdHYb)
The clogged ports are clearly shown in the bottom 2 intake ports.
They only seem to build that junk up right there in the 1/4" hole.
I would not pour any liquid down into the EGR port, and what will happen when you start the vehicle up will depend upon how much you poured down.
To remove the fluid, you would need to remove the EGR valve....could be a bit of work.
You would then use something like brake cleaner.....and catch it as it runs out the EGR valve location.
DO NOT try to flush it out with the EGR valve in place!!!!
I mention brake cleaner because it dries clean leaving no residue.
I would really like to have cleaned up the IMR "butterfly" plates, visible in the very top intake ports in the picture....however, I did very little cleaning of them because, as mentioned in a post above...you do NOT want to flush that crud on down into the intake.....as it will then be drawn right into the cylinders.
BEST way to clean the EGR ports is with a small pick....and a vaccum........
In the absence of a vaccum cleaner......a rag will do just fine.
I used a "pipe cleaner" (available at craft stores).....and a rag to clean them.
I picked junk out.....and then "buffed" them up with the pipe cleaner.
One could wet the pipe cleaner with a solvent and wipe with it if they wanted.
Searles Lewis
03-05-2012, 08:13 PM
Here is a picture of what the clogged EGR ports on mine looked like.
http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/27317/1201985658011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1201985658011220610TTdHYb)
Okay, well it was cleaned out enough ,I started it up, it sounds exactly the same.
My friend told me, if I can ,get the two sensors from a used parts place. My crazy relative has refused to drive us, despite offering $1500 for everything to fix it.
So, Now I am screwed, totally screwed.
I need the parts, have no way to get to them.
That would be the last thing to try, right? The cam and crank sensors? Would that explain the rattling I have? The popping sound?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01T1R2Aecdg
Why can't anyone give a definitive answer? There are tons of comments on here, but none with fixes except the coil pack.
Do people just fix it, and find out the answer, and never post after it's done?
Why dos it make the popping sound?
I started it up, same noise, same problem, still no CEL at all. My neighbor friend has a code reader-1 and I coul fix it, but no matter how many times I rev it or let it idle, even if it cuts out, or just sits there, no CEL and therefore no code.
http://inlinethumb54.webshots.com/27317/1201985658011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1201985658011220610TTdHYb)
Okay, well it was cleaned out enough ,I started it up, it sounds exactly the same.
My friend told me, if I can ,get the two sensors from a used parts place. My crazy relative has refused to drive us, despite offering $1500 for everything to fix it.
So, Now I am screwed, totally screwed.
I need the parts, have no way to get to them.
That would be the last thing to try, right? The cam and crank sensors? Would that explain the rattling I have? The popping sound?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01T1R2Aecdg
Why can't anyone give a definitive answer? There are tons of comments on here, but none with fixes except the coil pack.
Do people just fix it, and find out the answer, and never post after it's done?
Why dos it make the popping sound?
I started it up, same noise, same problem, still no CEL at all. My neighbor friend has a code reader-1 and I coul fix it, but no matter how many times I rev it or let it idle, even if it cuts out, or just sits there, no CEL and therefore no code.
tempfixit
03-05-2012, 09:38 PM
I assume you did not have the valve covers off when the plenium was off. I still think it has something to do with the valve train, broken push rod or rocker arm loose and tapping against the valve cover creating the noise. Only way to find out is remove valve covers and look.
Take a look at your camshaft sensor and syncronizer and see what condition they are in, before getting parts. Same with crankshaft sensor.
Take a look at your camshaft sensor and syncronizer and see what condition they are in, before getting parts. Same with crankshaft sensor.
tempfixit
03-05-2012, 11:19 PM
In another thread of yours it was stated that no. 5 spark plug wire was reconnected and the poppong started again. This points to problem with #5 clyinder, either valve train related or a bad connecting rod bearing.
If you remove number 5 spark plug does the poppng stop??
If you remove number 5 spark plug does the poppng stop??
Searles Lewis
03-06-2012, 01:32 PM
I assume you did not have the valve covers off when the plenium was off. I still think it has something to do with the valve train, broken push rod or rocker arm loose and tapping against the valve cover creating the noise. Only way to find out is remove valve covers and look.
Take a look at your camshaft sensor and syncronizer and see what condition they are in, before getting parts. Same with crankshaft sensor.
Well, I'll ask you again, I did a valve compression test, it was perfect, so why would that be necessary? If the valve had problems, it would not give good compression, right? I never get an answer to that question, tho my comment makes a lot of sense. The valve compression test would show no compression if the valve system, rocker, or whatever was not working right, right?, and it all came out just fine. 120-130 psi, had to be over 101 psi. But it all was, with each and every valve working just fine.
I did not get the noise when I took off the spark plugs for the compression test, not at all. As my friend, and common sense as I understand it would state, if it was a valve problem, the compression test would have had a dead cylinder, but if it was an electrical problem, the electrical problem would disappear when the electrical stuff like the plugs were disconnected from the engine. It did disappear. That would seem to be some sort of electrical problem. Right? not a valve problem since the cylinder compressio ntest was perfect-only ten pounds of difference between the valves, and nothing else? Plus, the noise disappeared completely?
That would mean , to my understanding, the camshaft or crankcase positioning sensor. I know from reading enough here that the sensors, coil pack, and even the spark plugs can read or seem fine, but the problem disappears once they are all replaced. I seem to be the only person that the problem has continued with, but I didn't replace those two sensors.
Now, valve thing read fine. Why would the valve train or anything else or springs, or anything with the valves be bad, if the valve compression test is fine?
Can anyone answer that?
I cannot see the cp sensor, just the camshaft. It looks dirty, dusty, but hat is it. But it is electronic. It could be dead, shorted, or whatever, just as the coil pack was bad on two cells, and the wires were bad too, since it does not stall anymore, but still makes the popping sound.
Now, am I missing something here? Could the valve train be a total piece of crap, yet still give perfect compression scores, despite not functioning?
Take a look at your camshaft sensor and syncronizer and see what condition they are in, before getting parts. Same with crankshaft sensor.
Well, I'll ask you again, I did a valve compression test, it was perfect, so why would that be necessary? If the valve had problems, it would not give good compression, right? I never get an answer to that question, tho my comment makes a lot of sense. The valve compression test would show no compression if the valve system, rocker, or whatever was not working right, right?, and it all came out just fine. 120-130 psi, had to be over 101 psi. But it all was, with each and every valve working just fine.
I did not get the noise when I took off the spark plugs for the compression test, not at all. As my friend, and common sense as I understand it would state, if it was a valve problem, the compression test would have had a dead cylinder, but if it was an electrical problem, the electrical problem would disappear when the electrical stuff like the plugs were disconnected from the engine. It did disappear. That would seem to be some sort of electrical problem. Right? not a valve problem since the cylinder compressio ntest was perfect-only ten pounds of difference between the valves, and nothing else? Plus, the noise disappeared completely?
That would mean , to my understanding, the camshaft or crankcase positioning sensor. I know from reading enough here that the sensors, coil pack, and even the spark plugs can read or seem fine, but the problem disappears once they are all replaced. I seem to be the only person that the problem has continued with, but I didn't replace those two sensors.
Now, valve thing read fine. Why would the valve train or anything else or springs, or anything with the valves be bad, if the valve compression test is fine?
Can anyone answer that?
I cannot see the cp sensor, just the camshaft. It looks dirty, dusty, but hat is it. But it is electronic. It could be dead, shorted, or whatever, just as the coil pack was bad on two cells, and the wires were bad too, since it does not stall anymore, but still makes the popping sound.
Now, am I missing something here? Could the valve train be a total piece of crap, yet still give perfect compression scores, despite not functioning?
Searles Lewis
03-06-2012, 01:34 PM
In another thread of yours it was stated that no. 5 spark plug wire was reconnected and the poppong started again. This points to problem with #5 clyinder, either valve train related or a bad connecting rod bearing.
If you remove number 5 spark plug does the poppng stop??
I replaced all of the spark plugs, the coil pack ,and the spark plug wires. With all of the spark plugs disconnected, it no longer makes any noise. Zip, silent. I do not know of the post you mentioned, I'll go back thru them right after I hit submit on this on.
If you remove number 5 spark plug does the poppng stop??
I replaced all of the spark plugs, the coil pack ,and the spark plug wires. With all of the spark plugs disconnected, it no longer makes any noise. Zip, silent. I do not know of the post you mentioned, I'll go back thru them right after I hit submit on this on.
Searles Lewis
03-06-2012, 01:44 PM
In another thread of yours it was stated that no. 5 spark plug wire was reconnected and the poppong started again. This points to problem with #5 clyinder, either valve train related or a bad connecting rod bearing.
If you remove number 5 spark plug does the poppng stop??
I remember this now. The #5 was actually the number two spark plug. It was broken, and the plug wire was standing up against the engine hood, back when all of this started. We came out one morning, and the passenger door was unlocked ,the hood had been popped, and when I opened the engine compartment, the #2 wire was standing straight up, and the dust was off of it.
That nite I think, the popping started, and the car acted funny. It lost power going up hill, returning home, and then started to stall. Hence our having for two weeks now, to sit at the relative's house, to repair it. It might run enough now to drive, but the popping sound is non-stop, and I can hear a tick sound for each and every plug firing. Or, that is what I think it is.
On youtube, there are 4 Ford videos with people's cars the same, and I posted a link to another video where the guy claimed the engine was dead. I do not knwo at all, but I think that is untrue. But #2 spark plug had a horseshoe crack, and burn brown marks coming out of the crack, as if someone had put lighter fluid in it and started the car.
No one seems o have posted the answer, except about the coil pack. I had improvement, it no longer stalls, but it no longer runs, either. I have to disconnect the battery, because if the car is not running ,it runs out. That would be an electrical problem, right?
Order of spark plugs, from my book and posts from very helpful people here, is
Standing at the front
rear 1-2-3
front 4-5-6.
If you remove number 5 spark plug does the poppng stop??
I remember this now. The #5 was actually the number two spark plug. It was broken, and the plug wire was standing up against the engine hood, back when all of this started. We came out one morning, and the passenger door was unlocked ,the hood had been popped, and when I opened the engine compartment, the #2 wire was standing straight up, and the dust was off of it.
That nite I think, the popping started, and the car acted funny. It lost power going up hill, returning home, and then started to stall. Hence our having for two weeks now, to sit at the relative's house, to repair it. It might run enough now to drive, but the popping sound is non-stop, and I can hear a tick sound for each and every plug firing. Or, that is what I think it is.
On youtube, there are 4 Ford videos with people's cars the same, and I posted a link to another video where the guy claimed the engine was dead. I do not knwo at all, but I think that is untrue. But #2 spark plug had a horseshoe crack, and burn brown marks coming out of the crack, as if someone had put lighter fluid in it and started the car.
No one seems o have posted the answer, except about the coil pack. I had improvement, it no longer stalls, but it no longer runs, either. I have to disconnect the battery, because if the car is not running ,it runs out. That would be an electrical problem, right?
Order of spark plugs, from my book and posts from very helpful people here, is
Standing at the front
rear 1-2-3
front 4-5-6.
tempfixit
03-06-2012, 02:01 PM
I replaced all of the spark plugs, the coil pack ,and the spark plug wires. With all of the spark plugs disconnected, it no longer makes any noise. Zip, silent. I do not know of the post you mentioned, I'll go back thru them right after I hit submit on this on.
A compression test will tell you if the valves are burned or not along with the rings being good or bad. It does not tell you if the valve or valves on a particular clyinder are opening or not, as long as the valves stay closed it will build compression if the piston rings and piston are good.
With all the spark plugs removed the engine can rotate much easier and with less resistance since there is not any combustion being created in the clyinder thus less pressure on the rod bearings.
By all means check the camshaft sensor and syncronizer, but I recommend getting a new sensor and syncronizer if replacing ( with a new syncronizer you should get a alignment tool with it), these parts used could be faulty also and salvage yards will not give a warranty on some thing like that, at least not where I am at. Yes a new part can be faulty, you never know either way.
A compression test will tell you if the valves are burned or not along with the rings being good or bad. It does not tell you if the valve or valves on a particular clyinder are opening or not, as long as the valves stay closed it will build compression if the piston rings and piston are good.
With all the spark plugs removed the engine can rotate much easier and with less resistance since there is not any combustion being created in the clyinder thus less pressure on the rod bearings.
By all means check the camshaft sensor and syncronizer, but I recommend getting a new sensor and syncronizer if replacing ( with a new syncronizer you should get a alignment tool with it), these parts used could be faulty also and salvage yards will not give a warranty on some thing like that, at least not where I am at. Yes a new part can be faulty, you never know either way.
Searles Lewis
03-06-2012, 03:17 PM
A compression test will tell you if the valves are burned or not along with the rings being good or bad. It does not tell you if the valve or valves on a particular clyinder are opening or not, as long as the valves stay closed it will build compression if the piston rings and piston are good.
With all the spark plugs removed the engine can rotate much easier and with less resistance since there is not any combustion being created in the clyinder thus less pressure on the rod bearings.
By all means check the camshaft sensor and syncronizer, but I recommend getting a new sensor and syncronizer if replacing ( with a new syncronizer you should get a alignment tool with it), these parts used could be faulty also and salvage yards will not give a warranty on some thing like that, at least not where I am at. Yes a new part can be faulty, you never know either way.
Yeah, awesome ,thank you. Okay, the answer you gave solves a lot, I will definitely do that tomorrow, get a new valve seal tonite, yank it tomorrow.
The reason I wanted to go used, too, is because I need to replace the driver's lock actuator, passanger one too, and the window lifting thing, plus I did not want to spend another wad of money I am short on anyway getting two sensors totalling $130, since I simply do not know what is wrong. It makes a popping sound, other people have experienced it, so I am totally clueless as to why no one else has solved it. All the recent posts seem to point to something the same or near mine, too. I would think with that kind of majority, something would happen to solve it.
I understand now what you mean. According to my friend ,the valves open and close, and the rings and etc. all cause compression, so if it passed the test, they were good. That is obviously somewhat of a stretch of the truth.
I will get the gasket tonight or tomorrow, and yank it tomorrow when I replace both sensors, if I can get a ride.
Thank you for explaining it! He, my friend told me, if it meets that, it's fine. I have wondered if he was stringing me along, or not. Now I know he could just be not telling me everything for whatever reason.
With all the spark plugs removed the engine can rotate much easier and with less resistance since there is not any combustion being created in the clyinder thus less pressure on the rod bearings.
By all means check the camshaft sensor and syncronizer, but I recommend getting a new sensor and syncronizer if replacing ( with a new syncronizer you should get a alignment tool with it), these parts used could be faulty also and salvage yards will not give a warranty on some thing like that, at least not where I am at. Yes a new part can be faulty, you never know either way.
Yeah, awesome ,thank you. Okay, the answer you gave solves a lot, I will definitely do that tomorrow, get a new valve seal tonite, yank it tomorrow.
The reason I wanted to go used, too, is because I need to replace the driver's lock actuator, passanger one too, and the window lifting thing, plus I did not want to spend another wad of money I am short on anyway getting two sensors totalling $130, since I simply do not know what is wrong. It makes a popping sound, other people have experienced it, so I am totally clueless as to why no one else has solved it. All the recent posts seem to point to something the same or near mine, too. I would think with that kind of majority, something would happen to solve it.
I understand now what you mean. According to my friend ,the valves open and close, and the rings and etc. all cause compression, so if it passed the test, they were good. That is obviously somewhat of a stretch of the truth.
I will get the gasket tonight or tomorrow, and yank it tomorrow when I replace both sensors, if I can get a ride.
Thank you for explaining it! He, my friend told me, if it meets that, it's fine. I have wondered if he was stringing me along, or not. Now I know he could just be not telling me everything for whatever reason.
olopezm
03-06-2012, 05:51 PM
Any chance the popping sound is caused by the EGR system? Remove and plug the vacuum line on top of the EGR valve (UFO like thing below the throttle body) and see if the problem goes away. Post any results before you start replacing anything.
Oscar.
Oscar.
Searles Lewis
03-06-2012, 06:58 PM
Any chance the popping sound is caused by the EGR system? Remove and plug the vacuum line on top of the EGR valve (UFO like thing below the throttle body) and see if the problem goes away. Post any results before you start replacing anything.
Oscar.
I'll do this and then post back!
Oscar.
I'll do this and then post back!
tempfixit
03-06-2012, 07:04 PM
Any chance the popping sound is caused by the EGR system? Remove and plug the vacuum line on top of the EGR valve (UFO like thing below the throttle body) and see if the problem goes away. Post any results before you start replacing anything.
Oscar.
Good point Oscar. Also I recommend cheding the sensors before just replacing. Maybe it is time to take to a professional mechanic to solve. Could be cheaper in the end. The other thing that scares me is the anti-freeze that was put into engine, antifreeze will take the babbit off the bearings.
I would find the problem before running for any parts. Just throwing parts at it can get very costly.
Oscar.
Good point Oscar. Also I recommend cheding the sensors before just replacing. Maybe it is time to take to a professional mechanic to solve. Could be cheaper in the end. The other thing that scares me is the anti-freeze that was put into engine, antifreeze will take the babbit off the bearings.
I would find the problem before running for any parts. Just throwing parts at it can get very costly.
Searles Lewis
03-06-2012, 07:29 PM
Good point Oscar. Also I recommend cheding the sensors before just replacing. Maybe it is time to take to a professional mechanic to solve. Could be cheaper in the end. The other thing that scares me is the anti-freeze that was put into engine, antifreeze will take the babbit off the bearings.
I would find the problem before running for any parts. Just throwing parts at it can get very costly.
yep, it does.
But, what I found out, is that the sensors involved will give good readings, but still not work-coil pack is a good example.
What is the babbitt? Why would it destroy the bearings?
I would find the problem before running for any parts. Just throwing parts at it can get very costly.
yep, it does.
But, what I found out, is that the sensors involved will give good readings, but still not work-coil pack is a good example.
What is the babbitt? Why would it destroy the bearings?
olopezm
03-06-2012, 07:36 PM
It does what? It does gets rid of the problem or not?
I pointed to the EGR because Ford is known for crappy DPFE sensors (part of the EGR system) and when it failed in my Town Car, it caused backfiring. I wonder if that popping noise would be better described as backfiring?.
Oscar.
I pointed to the EGR because Ford is known for crappy DPFE sensors (part of the EGR system) and when it failed in my Town Car, it caused backfiring. I wonder if that popping noise would be better described as backfiring?.
Oscar.
olopezm
03-06-2012, 07:40 PM
You might want to take a look at this article about babbit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(metal)
Oscar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(metal)
Oscar.
tempfixit
03-06-2012, 10:33 PM
Searles, do you know anybody that has a scanning tool with live info, possibly a laptop with software with live graphics and timing info???
olopezm
03-06-2012, 10:39 PM
Good point Oscar. Also I recommend cheding the sensors before just replacing. Maybe it is time to take to a professional mechanic to solve. Could be cheaper in the end. The other thing that scares me is the anti-freeze that was put into engine, antifreeze will take the babbit off the bearings.
I would find the problem before running for any parts. Just throwing parts at it can get very costly.
Thanks man. Yeah you're right, I don't know why many users (in different forums, not just here) tend to replace whatever is listed in a reply. I recognize that not long ago (when I decided to fix my cars all by myself) I did that a couple of times but not anymore! These things can become money pits in a second, for sure...
Oscar.
I would find the problem before running for any parts. Just throwing parts at it can get very costly.
Thanks man. Yeah you're right, I don't know why many users (in different forums, not just here) tend to replace whatever is listed in a reply. I recognize that not long ago (when I decided to fix my cars all by myself) I did that a couple of times but not anymore! These things can become money pits in a second, for sure...
Oscar.
tempfixit
03-07-2012, 03:36 AM
http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg (http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg)
Searles, what is the 8th character in the vin number? (u or 4). The reason I ask is because the upper intake to me looks like that of a 3.8 engine. Very possible that I am wrong and I am meaning no offense by asking this question. I have a 98 with a 3.0 and it looks different.
When your friend listened with the stethoscope did he listen to the engine lower end from under the vehicle against the oil pan??? IN my opiniion the more I listen to the video the more it sounds like a bad rod bearing to me. (Hopefully I am wrong).
Searles, what is the 8th character in the vin number? (u or 4). The reason I ask is because the upper intake to me looks like that of a 3.8 engine. Very possible that I am wrong and I am meaning no offense by asking this question. I have a 98 with a 3.0 and it looks different.
When your friend listened with the stethoscope did he listen to the engine lower end from under the vehicle against the oil pan??? IN my opiniion the more I listen to the video the more it sounds like a bad rod bearing to me. (Hopefully I am wrong).
wiswind
03-07-2012, 03:54 PM
MOST Windstars were built using the 3.8L engine......the 3.0L being in the minority (like 6%).
Removing the vaccum line from the top of the EGR valve is a very good test to eliminate the EGR system from the list of possible failures.
You unplug it from the EGR valve and plug it (the vaccum hose).
This will disable the EGR system.
NOTE that this should light the Check Engine Light as the EGR flow sensor (DPFE) will not measure any EGR flow.
The EGR valve VERY rarely fails on the Windstar, the DPFE and EGR ports are the most common cause of EGR issues.
Also note that it is normal for there to be a slight vaccum on the vaccum line to the EGR valve whenever the engine is running,.....however it is not enough to open the EGR valve.
The computer (PCM) determines how much EGR flow it "wants" and sends a signal to the EGR vaccum solenoid to open it and create vaccum in the EGR vaccum line to open the EGR valve.
The PCM uses the signal from the DPFE to know how much flow there is and will control the EGR valve to get the signal that it wants from the DPFE.
If you were to plot a graph of the vaccum inside the vaccum line to the EGR valve, you would see a series of pulses.....
NOTE that the EGR system is supposed to NOT operate when the vehicle is NOT moving.
IF the DPFE is sending a "weak" signal.....then the computer will call for too much EGR flow, causing the engine to run poorly.
If the PCM determines that the DPFE is bad, then it will ignore the DPFE signal and disable the EGR system.
I wish that I had the "correct" answer to your problem.
However, I have never had that problem and can only guess.
I would LOVE for it to be a inexpensive fix.
Also, YES, it is common for folks to post a question and then not post back when they solve their problem.
I have asked folks to post back, but they still often do not.
The Camshaft Sensor Syncro,.....if it has not been messed with (removed) or failed solid (not common) then is "should" still be fine.
it is a shaft with a gear on the end that is driven from the camshaft system.
If the shaft is not spinning, you should get a Check Engine Light (CEL) and a code that indicates a problem with the Camshaft Position Sensor signal.
The common issues with the Syncro are a squeeling sound due to lack of lubrication to a bearing on it and the syncro being in the wrong position......which would require one to move it....I have not read any posts about the syncro jumping a gear (there is not enough slop in the system for that).
The Camshaft SENSOR has been known to fail.....the plastic body seams to crack...often near the electrical connector part of it.
The many heat cycles that it gets....sitting on top of the motor.
The camshaft syncro is all that is left of the distributor that used to be on motors years ago.
Now it only serves to tell the computer the position of the camshafts and that signal is used by the computer to "time" the spurts of fuel from the fuel injectors, and other engine functions.
The crankshaft position sensor......I can understand you having problems seeing it.
I have no pictures posted of it....even though I tried several times to get a good picture of it.
Like the camshaft postion sensor, it is a magnetic pickup type of sensor.
For a very rough idea of how they work.....look at your wheel speed sensors.
There is a "exciter" ring and a little block with wires going to it.
Inside the block with wires is a magnet coil that generates a elecrical "pulse" each time a tooth of the "exciter" ring passes by.
Counting how many pulses there are in a given time tells the computer how fast the wheel is spinning.
In the case of the camshaft position sensor it is WHEN the pulse happens in relationship to other events, like the pulse from the crankshaft position sensor, that the computer is looking for.
Removing the vaccum line from the top of the EGR valve is a very good test to eliminate the EGR system from the list of possible failures.
You unplug it from the EGR valve and plug it (the vaccum hose).
This will disable the EGR system.
NOTE that this should light the Check Engine Light as the EGR flow sensor (DPFE) will not measure any EGR flow.
The EGR valve VERY rarely fails on the Windstar, the DPFE and EGR ports are the most common cause of EGR issues.
Also note that it is normal for there to be a slight vaccum on the vaccum line to the EGR valve whenever the engine is running,.....however it is not enough to open the EGR valve.
The computer (PCM) determines how much EGR flow it "wants" and sends a signal to the EGR vaccum solenoid to open it and create vaccum in the EGR vaccum line to open the EGR valve.
The PCM uses the signal from the DPFE to know how much flow there is and will control the EGR valve to get the signal that it wants from the DPFE.
If you were to plot a graph of the vaccum inside the vaccum line to the EGR valve, you would see a series of pulses.....
NOTE that the EGR system is supposed to NOT operate when the vehicle is NOT moving.
IF the DPFE is sending a "weak" signal.....then the computer will call for too much EGR flow, causing the engine to run poorly.
If the PCM determines that the DPFE is bad, then it will ignore the DPFE signal and disable the EGR system.
I wish that I had the "correct" answer to your problem.
However, I have never had that problem and can only guess.
I would LOVE for it to be a inexpensive fix.
Also, YES, it is common for folks to post a question and then not post back when they solve their problem.
I have asked folks to post back, but they still often do not.
The Camshaft Sensor Syncro,.....if it has not been messed with (removed) or failed solid (not common) then is "should" still be fine.
it is a shaft with a gear on the end that is driven from the camshaft system.
If the shaft is not spinning, you should get a Check Engine Light (CEL) and a code that indicates a problem with the Camshaft Position Sensor signal.
The common issues with the Syncro are a squeeling sound due to lack of lubrication to a bearing on it and the syncro being in the wrong position......which would require one to move it....I have not read any posts about the syncro jumping a gear (there is not enough slop in the system for that).
The Camshaft SENSOR has been known to fail.....the plastic body seams to crack...often near the electrical connector part of it.
The many heat cycles that it gets....sitting on top of the motor.
The camshaft syncro is all that is left of the distributor that used to be on motors years ago.
Now it only serves to tell the computer the position of the camshafts and that signal is used by the computer to "time" the spurts of fuel from the fuel injectors, and other engine functions.
The crankshaft position sensor......I can understand you having problems seeing it.
I have no pictures posted of it....even though I tried several times to get a good picture of it.
Like the camshaft postion sensor, it is a magnetic pickup type of sensor.
For a very rough idea of how they work.....look at your wheel speed sensors.
There is a "exciter" ring and a little block with wires going to it.
Inside the block with wires is a magnet coil that generates a elecrical "pulse" each time a tooth of the "exciter" ring passes by.
Counting how many pulses there are in a given time tells the computer how fast the wheel is spinning.
In the case of the camshaft position sensor it is WHEN the pulse happens in relationship to other events, like the pulse from the crankshaft position sensor, that the computer is looking for.
olopezm
03-07-2012, 05:50 PM
Ha! I hadn't seen the video!
Hmmm... I saw it and first glance it seems like an exhaust leak to me, then I scrolled down to the comments section and saw somebody else had the same idea. Is the noise changing as temperature rises?
I'm sorry, I've never heard a bad rod baring so I can't comment any further about it. I'm pretty sure tempfixit will give you great advise about it!
Oscar.
Hmmm... I saw it and first glance it seems like an exhaust leak to me, then I scrolled down to the comments section and saw somebody else had the same idea. Is the noise changing as temperature rises?
I'm sorry, I've never heard a bad rod baring so I can't comment any further about it. I'm pretty sure tempfixit will give you great advise about it!
Oscar.
Searles Lewis
03-08-2012, 02:33 PM
http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg (http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg)
Searles, what is the 8th character in the vin number? (u or 4). The reason I ask is because the upper intake to me looks like that of a 3.8 engine. Very possible that I am wrong and I am meaning no offense by asking this question. I have a 98 with a 3.0 and it looks different.
When your friend listened with the stethoscope did he listen to the engine lower end from under the vehicle against the oil pan??? IN my opiniion the more I listen to the video the more it sounds like a bad rod bearing to me. (Hopefully I am wrong).
U. I have the 3.0. From what I understand, 97-8 had a different engine in some ways. I have a 2000 3.0l.
That is interesting you think it is a bad rod bearing. I wonder if over time, people will keep changing their mind to that.
He listened to most of the top, and then the side. No noise from the bottom at all, neither from the rod or anything else. Misfiring, and then the noise from the upper part near cylinder 1.
I had a long list of windstars at the junk yard yesterday. I picked two parts from a 1999 windstar, and not one of the cars had a veci label-they'd all been removed.
Up here, Autozone had both sensors for 67-78 dollars per. Down, In ABQ, the sensors were 24 and 19, respectively. The kid, really sharp, showed me the pics, and they were different from what the parts I had stated, and the parts were both fro ma '97. They therefore would not work. I can get a credit for them, but...that seems strange the VECI labels would be removed, and the stickers on the cars were wrong , too. The sensors cost me, instead of 10$, 14 and 17. I had called on that too, beforehand. They also inflated the prices from the last time when I went there, and a quote was 20$ on a door hinge. Wow, that is different from the 5$ I paid a month ago.
It is really cold here, so I am going to wait until after lunch and then put both sensors on the car.
Searles, what is the 8th character in the vin number? (u or 4). The reason I ask is because the upper intake to me looks like that of a 3.8 engine. Very possible that I am wrong and I am meaning no offense by asking this question. I have a 98 with a 3.0 and it looks different.
When your friend listened with the stethoscope did he listen to the engine lower end from under the vehicle against the oil pan??? IN my opiniion the more I listen to the video the more it sounds like a bad rod bearing to me. (Hopefully I am wrong).
U. I have the 3.0. From what I understand, 97-8 had a different engine in some ways. I have a 2000 3.0l.
That is interesting you think it is a bad rod bearing. I wonder if over time, people will keep changing their mind to that.
He listened to most of the top, and then the side. No noise from the bottom at all, neither from the rod or anything else. Misfiring, and then the noise from the upper part near cylinder 1.
I had a long list of windstars at the junk yard yesterday. I picked two parts from a 1999 windstar, and not one of the cars had a veci label-they'd all been removed.
Up here, Autozone had both sensors for 67-78 dollars per. Down, In ABQ, the sensors were 24 and 19, respectively. The kid, really sharp, showed me the pics, and they were different from what the parts I had stated, and the parts were both fro ma '97. They therefore would not work. I can get a credit for them, but...that seems strange the VECI labels would be removed, and the stickers on the cars were wrong , too. The sensors cost me, instead of 10$, 14 and 17. I had called on that too, beforehand. They also inflated the prices from the last time when I went there, and a quote was 20$ on a door hinge. Wow, that is different from the 5$ I paid a month ago.
It is really cold here, so I am going to wait until after lunch and then put both sensors on the car.
Searles Lewis
03-08-2012, 02:55 PM
MOST Windstars were built using the 3.8L engine......the 3.0L being in the minority (like 6%).
Removing the vaccum line from the top of the EGR valve is a very good test to eliminate the EGR system from the list of possible failures.
You unplug it from the EGR valve and plug it (the vaccum hose).
This will disable the EGR system.
I have asked folks to post back, but they still often do not.
The Camshaft Sensor Syncro,.....if it has not been messed with (removed) or failed solid (not common) then is "should" still be fine.
I am just amazed tho, given how many people have this problem, yet no one knows a fix?
Is the car making a rod noise, in your opinion, or not? You'd know what that sounds like, right?
As for not posting-the solution would still be known to someone on here, which is why I'm mystified no one has posted it at all.
As for the sensor-we have one of the many windstars where lights come on and off, for no reason, even while driving. Ford windstars are known for bad sensors and very bad electronics. I have also seen enough older posts here to know, an piece of electronics can pass every single test known to mechanics, and still be very bad.
My EGR intake measurement ports were so badly fouled, I'm sure they did not work correctly. The #1 cylinder was so hot a the plenum, I hurt my hand touching it. The black stuff in the port itself looked like the sugar we burned in the third grade in elementary school. That IMHO would be consistent with my landlord having poured anti-freeze into the engine, too.
But, absent anyone knowing, and a bad rod or bearing would be well known it would seem to me, I keep trying other things. My relative has offered to buy a different car, but we can get another engine at half that price, and the rest of the car is fine, has like 147k miles, so that would truly be a waste other than to drop a different engine in instead.
From yahoo answers to here, the things listed for the problem we have with misfiring are usually due to coil pack, crank and camshaft sensors. So I did that. If I take off a valve cover, that means 24 hours while the rtv sets, IIRC from 2001, to repair it.
My friend is usually honest, but years back, when every problem we had started, I testified at an NNSA about LANL killing my Dad by exposing him to plutonium gas, and not telling him, and then getting his oncologist, a real whore of a man, to cover for it. I found out he'd gotten a 26 rem dose from his radiologist, who even wrote out the formula they use to find the dose. As a result, he and evryone lse have called me a "traitor", and I have been blamed for lanl losing contracts and everything else. I detailed online what was being said and done to my family and me as a result, and this really stirred things up.
So, now, since I am getting different stories from the same person, I do not know what to think at all. It was working fine ,then we came back from town, working out, and the car started making the popping sound, and lost power. But, even a mechanic from mexico like olopezm, does not know. I find that really funky. There are now 5 videos on youtube of Fords with the same problem but no listed answers.
I am still not sure about the vacuum leak thing, and given the spurious and strange info I have been getting, do not know what to do.
Does anyone? In my area ,there are plenty of car enthusiasts, mostly hispanic ,who work on cars to make them supercharged ,and my son had one of those guys as a friend-his Dad does it in Nambe. But, I do not know his addy, and the area just a few years ago had people standing by the road with baseball bats, attacking any white person coming in. The street signs get removed too, so if you are not from there, good luck finding an addy. Outside of that, I neither know where to go, or even how.
Everything electric fails on a Ford. I can't find a rod bearing break that sounds like mine on youtube.
So, I am stuck. :banghead:
Removing the vaccum line from the top of the EGR valve is a very good test to eliminate the EGR system from the list of possible failures.
You unplug it from the EGR valve and plug it (the vaccum hose).
This will disable the EGR system.
I have asked folks to post back, but they still often do not.
The Camshaft Sensor Syncro,.....if it has not been messed with (removed) or failed solid (not common) then is "should" still be fine.
I am just amazed tho, given how many people have this problem, yet no one knows a fix?
Is the car making a rod noise, in your opinion, or not? You'd know what that sounds like, right?
As for not posting-the solution would still be known to someone on here, which is why I'm mystified no one has posted it at all.
As for the sensor-we have one of the many windstars where lights come on and off, for no reason, even while driving. Ford windstars are known for bad sensors and very bad electronics. I have also seen enough older posts here to know, an piece of electronics can pass every single test known to mechanics, and still be very bad.
My EGR intake measurement ports were so badly fouled, I'm sure they did not work correctly. The #1 cylinder was so hot a the plenum, I hurt my hand touching it. The black stuff in the port itself looked like the sugar we burned in the third grade in elementary school. That IMHO would be consistent with my landlord having poured anti-freeze into the engine, too.
But, absent anyone knowing, and a bad rod or bearing would be well known it would seem to me, I keep trying other things. My relative has offered to buy a different car, but we can get another engine at half that price, and the rest of the car is fine, has like 147k miles, so that would truly be a waste other than to drop a different engine in instead.
From yahoo answers to here, the things listed for the problem we have with misfiring are usually due to coil pack, crank and camshaft sensors. So I did that. If I take off a valve cover, that means 24 hours while the rtv sets, IIRC from 2001, to repair it.
My friend is usually honest, but years back, when every problem we had started, I testified at an NNSA about LANL killing my Dad by exposing him to plutonium gas, and not telling him, and then getting his oncologist, a real whore of a man, to cover for it. I found out he'd gotten a 26 rem dose from his radiologist, who even wrote out the formula they use to find the dose. As a result, he and evryone lse have called me a "traitor", and I have been blamed for lanl losing contracts and everything else. I detailed online what was being said and done to my family and me as a result, and this really stirred things up.
So, now, since I am getting different stories from the same person, I do not know what to think at all. It was working fine ,then we came back from town, working out, and the car started making the popping sound, and lost power. But, even a mechanic from mexico like olopezm, does not know. I find that really funky. There are now 5 videos on youtube of Fords with the same problem but no listed answers.
I am still not sure about the vacuum leak thing, and given the spurious and strange info I have been getting, do not know what to do.
Does anyone? In my area ,there are plenty of car enthusiasts, mostly hispanic ,who work on cars to make them supercharged ,and my son had one of those guys as a friend-his Dad does it in Nambe. But, I do not know his addy, and the area just a few years ago had people standing by the road with baseball bats, attacking any white person coming in. The street signs get removed too, so if you are not from there, good luck finding an addy. Outside of that, I neither know where to go, or even how.
Everything electric fails on a Ford. I can't find a rod bearing break that sounds like mine on youtube.
So, I am stuck. :banghead:
94LebConv3La604
03-08-2012, 03:04 PM
If your interior lights seem to turn on and off whenever they damn well please....check the hatch's door sensors...I was having that problem and determined it to be one of the two hatch sensors on my 98. I just removed it instead of replacing it as I could care less if it thought the door was closed or not and by default, without the sensor attached, it assumes the door is closed.
tempfixit
03-08-2012, 07:19 PM
Any chance the popping sound is caused by the EGR system? Remove and plug the vacuum line on top of the EGR valve (UFO like thing below the throttle body) and see if the problem goes away. Post any results before you start replacing anything.
Oscar.
Did the popping go away when you did this suggestion???
OK I just listened to the video again, I heard something that I had missed before. Listen real carefully at 3 seconds, to me it sounds like metal on metal for a second (something turning then abruptly stopping). Can some one confirm what I hear???
The video again:
http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg (http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg)
Have you checked the oil pressure with a gauge????
Oscar.
Did the popping go away when you did this suggestion???
OK I just listened to the video again, I heard something that I had missed before. Listen real carefully at 3 seconds, to me it sounds like metal on metal for a second (something turning then abruptly stopping). Can some one confirm what I hear???
The video again:
http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg (http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg)
Have you checked the oil pressure with a gauge????
olopezm
03-08-2012, 07:51 PM
OK I just listened to the video again, I heard something that I had missed before. Listen real carefully at 3 seconds, to me it sounds like metal on metal for a second (something turning then abruptly stopping). Can some one confirm what I hear???
Nice ear man, I never realized about that noise.
I don't know, I listen to it and it seems like it was caused by the movement of whoever was holding the camera; like the lens cover, that older cameras used to have, bumped against the camera itself. I don't know if he used one of those...
Oscar.
Nice ear man, I never realized about that noise.
I don't know, I listen to it and it seems like it was caused by the movement of whoever was holding the camera; like the lens cover, that older cameras used to have, bumped against the camera itself. I don't know if he used one of those...
Oscar.
MARZBX157
03-08-2012, 08:35 PM
Did you open the valve cover and check? To me it sounds like a push rod or something, you have to confirm this first and rule it out. The cover is easy to remove.
wiswind
03-09-2012, 07:02 AM
I do not have personal experience with what a rod knock sounds like.
I am not a mechanic, just a do-it-yourself guy for simple repairs.
I try to research and do things right, and then share with others as I have learned from them.
I wish I had the answer, but I don't and I don't want to come off to folks like I know more than I do.
The Windstar room is a very active room on this website.
I have a Toyota Sienna, and there is MUCH less activity in that room, and much less information.
Felpro makes a nice valve cover gasket set that is not expensive.
You do NOT apply any sealant to their rubber gaskets, you just "dry fit" them.
You will need to clean the mating surfaces where the gasket sits to make a good seal.
Looking under the valve covers is a good idea....the front one will be easy to get at.
The rear one is more difficult because there is a lot of stuff in the way.
The rear is also more difficult because you are leaning over so far (hard on the back) so don't try to do it in a hurry (take breaks to rest your back).
I pointed out that the 3.0L motor is RARE in the Windstar because that might be why it is hard to find a lot of solutions for it in this forum.
It was in around 6% of the Windstars built and it was also quite reliable.
I am not a mechanic, just a do-it-yourself guy for simple repairs.
I try to research and do things right, and then share with others as I have learned from them.
I wish I had the answer, but I don't and I don't want to come off to folks like I know more than I do.
The Windstar room is a very active room on this website.
I have a Toyota Sienna, and there is MUCH less activity in that room, and much less information.
Felpro makes a nice valve cover gasket set that is not expensive.
You do NOT apply any sealant to their rubber gaskets, you just "dry fit" them.
You will need to clean the mating surfaces where the gasket sits to make a good seal.
Looking under the valve covers is a good idea....the front one will be easy to get at.
The rear one is more difficult because there is a lot of stuff in the way.
The rear is also more difficult because you are leaning over so far (hard on the back) so don't try to do it in a hurry (take breaks to rest your back).
I pointed out that the 3.0L motor is RARE in the Windstar because that might be why it is hard to find a lot of solutions for it in this forum.
It was in around 6% of the Windstars built and it was also quite reliable.
grog11
03-09-2012, 12:09 PM
I have listened to the noise video and the noise does seem to be from the valve train.
tempfixit has some good suggestions, that you should check the oil pressure first thing. That would rule out oil pressure, but not plugged oil port lubrication, and flow issues to the upper rocker arm areas.
He also heard the metal to metal clicking in the video after 3 second the engine start. I believe that to be the AC clutch kicking in. Turn off accessories and see if that stops the metal click after start up..
The noise is certainly from the top end valves area.This could be from lack of oil, or worn broken parts
Get access to an engine service manual for your particular engine.
You do need to remove the valve rocker covers. check rocker arm clearances per your engine specification. Look for worn or loose rocker arms, or excessive wear.
The valve springs could be weak and possibly worn from overheating of the engine at one time .Remove the valve springs and check length and compression. You could have worn/ bent push rods, or failing cam shaft lobes from poor oil lubrication. Check for broken valve springs. Broken, or weak valve springs can still have enough force to raise the valve seat tight enough during compression testing, which will still give a good cylinder compression test.
Could you give us the cylinder compression test results psi's for each cylinder?
The test results will tell you if the engine is even worth digging into the engine components and repairing the valve issue.
You may find just replacing the engine with a good running used engine, is not that much more money than repair from failed components.
You do not say if your exhaust has been blowing white, or blue smoke out the back while running. How many miles are on this engine?
Like others have said on this forum, that not all members are mechanics, but there are some very good troubleshooters here that have a lot of experience.We all share a common idea of trying to help every one out as best as possible by sharing our knowledge and experience.
Critical internal engine clearances diagnosis must be visually seen, so you need to tear into the components and check them one at a time to find the problem.
Hopefully you will just find, plugged oil ports from dirty oil, preventing lubrication, weak valve springs, or worn rocker arms that can be replaced and solve you engine noise problem.
tempfixit has some good suggestions, that you should check the oil pressure first thing. That would rule out oil pressure, but not plugged oil port lubrication, and flow issues to the upper rocker arm areas.
He also heard the metal to metal clicking in the video after 3 second the engine start. I believe that to be the AC clutch kicking in. Turn off accessories and see if that stops the metal click after start up..
The noise is certainly from the top end valves area.This could be from lack of oil, or worn broken parts
Get access to an engine service manual for your particular engine.
You do need to remove the valve rocker covers. check rocker arm clearances per your engine specification. Look for worn or loose rocker arms, or excessive wear.
The valve springs could be weak and possibly worn from overheating of the engine at one time .Remove the valve springs and check length and compression. You could have worn/ bent push rods, or failing cam shaft lobes from poor oil lubrication. Check for broken valve springs. Broken, or weak valve springs can still have enough force to raise the valve seat tight enough during compression testing, which will still give a good cylinder compression test.
Could you give us the cylinder compression test results psi's for each cylinder?
The test results will tell you if the engine is even worth digging into the engine components and repairing the valve issue.
You may find just replacing the engine with a good running used engine, is not that much more money than repair from failed components.
You do not say if your exhaust has been blowing white, or blue smoke out the back while running. How many miles are on this engine?
Like others have said on this forum, that not all members are mechanics, but there are some very good troubleshooters here that have a lot of experience.We all share a common idea of trying to help every one out as best as possible by sharing our knowledge and experience.
Critical internal engine clearances diagnosis must be visually seen, so you need to tear into the components and check them one at a time to find the problem.
Hopefully you will just find, plugged oil ports from dirty oil, preventing lubrication, weak valve springs, or worn rocker arms that can be replaced and solve you engine noise problem.
tempfixit
03-09-2012, 02:22 PM
grog11
He did do a compression test and they were 120-130 range readings.
Thanks on the a/c clutch engaging, I did not think of that, very possible for noise I hear at 3 seconds. It has also been suggested along with the valve cover removal some time ago to remove serpentine belt to eliminate any possiblities there also and to check the harmonic balancer.
I agree until the valve covers are removed and valve train inspected like you say we are all speculating on noise location including myself.
He did do a compression test and they were 120-130 range readings.
Thanks on the a/c clutch engaging, I did not think of that, very possible for noise I hear at 3 seconds. It has also been suggested along with the valve cover removal some time ago to remove serpentine belt to eliminate any possiblities there also and to check the harmonic balancer.
I agree until the valve covers are removed and valve train inspected like you say we are all speculating on noise location including myself.
grog11
03-09-2012, 04:25 PM
Sorry I missed the compression test results. 120# should be acceptable for a used 10:1 compression ratio cylinder. So it looks like the engine is worth working on over all.
Engine Compression Ratio to cylinder PSI test equivalents for future reference.
8>1 = 102.9 psi
8.5>1= 102.9 - 110.25 psi
9>1= 110.25 - 117.6 psi
9.5>1= 117.6 - 124.95 psi
10>1= 124.95 - 132.65 psi
10.5>1= 132.3 - 139.65 psi
11>1= 139.65 - 147 psi
11.5>1= 147 - 154.35 psi
12>1= 154.35 - 161.7 psi
Cylinder compression tests to be taken when engine is just warm and rings have expanded from running, but not too hot to work around the engine .Many make the mistake of cold engine testing and get lower results at test time.
Engine Compression Ratio to cylinder PSI test equivalents for future reference.
8>1 = 102.9 psi
8.5>1= 102.9 - 110.25 psi
9>1= 110.25 - 117.6 psi
9.5>1= 117.6 - 124.95 psi
10>1= 124.95 - 132.65 psi
10.5>1= 132.3 - 139.65 psi
11>1= 139.65 - 147 psi
11.5>1= 147 - 154.35 psi
12>1= 154.35 - 161.7 psi
Cylinder compression tests to be taken when engine is just warm and rings have expanded from running, but not too hot to work around the engine .Many make the mistake of cold engine testing and get lower results at test time.
olopezm
03-09-2012, 08:44 PM
Looks like this is heading to a point where my little knowledge is not enough so I cannot provide any better advise, but in case you need any diagrams, etc. any of you guys can feel free to contact me.
I'll keep an eye on the thread for sure, I'm interested in the result.
Oscar.
I'll keep an eye on the thread for sure, I'm interested in the result.
Oscar.
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