Valve Problem Possible on Windstar 2000
Searles Lewis
02-24-2012, 10:18 PM
I have spoken to some people, will have friend who has owned 140+ cars since 1982, look at it tomorrow.
The suggestion has been the prior tapping sound, and the current pounding popping sound on the left hand side of the engine/plenum, are due to a valve lifter problem.
Does anyone know what to do? The antifreeze could have causes the valve lifter to stick, causing the tapping, then break or sticking. I get the feeling sometimes I have been had, as initially I understand, if I'd been told, I could have used something to free it up with an oil additive then an oil change.
Am I barking up the wrong tree here?:banghead:
The suggestion has been the prior tapping sound, and the current pounding popping sound on the left hand side of the engine/plenum, are due to a valve lifter problem.
Does anyone know what to do? The antifreeze could have causes the valve lifter to stick, causing the tapping, then break or sticking. I get the feeling sometimes I have been had, as initially I understand, if I'd been told, I could have used something to free it up with an oil additive then an oil change.
Am I barking up the wrong tree here?:banghead:
tempfixit
02-25-2012, 11:10 AM
I have spoken to some people, will have friend who has owned 140+ cars since 1982, look at it tomorrow.
The suggestion has been the prior tapping sound, and the current pounding popping sound on the left hand side of the engine/plenum, are due to a valve lifter problem.
Does anyone know what to do? The antifreeze could have causes the valve lifter to stick, causing the tapping, then break or sticking. I get the feeling sometimes I have been had, as initially I understand, if I'd been told, I could have used something to free it up with an oil additive then an oil change.
Am I barking up the wrong tree here?:banghead:
If you are certain that the tapping/popping comes from the left side of engine pull the left valve cover to look for loose tappets, bent or broken push rod. Do you have a misfire code???
Wynn's oil or Marvel Mystery oil may help with the tapping.
The suggestion has been the prior tapping sound, and the current pounding popping sound on the left hand side of the engine/plenum, are due to a valve lifter problem.
Does anyone know what to do? The antifreeze could have causes the valve lifter to stick, causing the tapping, then break or sticking. I get the feeling sometimes I have been had, as initially I understand, if I'd been told, I could have used something to free it up with an oil additive then an oil change.
Am I barking up the wrong tree here?:banghead:
If you are certain that the tapping/popping comes from the left side of engine pull the left valve cover to look for loose tappets, bent or broken push rod. Do you have a misfire code???
Wynn's oil or Marvel Mystery oil may help with the tapping.
Searles Lewis
02-25-2012, 11:30 AM
If you are certain that the tapping/popping comes from the left side of engine pull the left valve cover to look for loose tappets, bent or broken push rod. Do you have a misfire code???
Wynn's oil or Marvel Mystery oil may help with the tapping.
I had a friend check it this morning. It's a valve job. I can't find an estimate or name for it in the Chilton database my library uses. It sounds like a sneaker in the engine, and won't even turn over.
It's leftover from my landlord putting antifreeze in my engine.
I'm on disability, and live in New Mexico, so as of right now, this means I have lost that, my ability to reach Dr's appointments, and get anything done at all.
I am truly screwed.
Do you have an estimate on costs for fixing a bent rod, or valve job?
Wynn's oil or Marvel Mystery oil may help with the tapping.
I had a friend check it this morning. It's a valve job. I can't find an estimate or name for it in the Chilton database my library uses. It sounds like a sneaker in the engine, and won't even turn over.
It's leftover from my landlord putting antifreeze in my engine.
I'm on disability, and live in New Mexico, so as of right now, this means I have lost that, my ability to reach Dr's appointments, and get anything done at all.
I am truly screwed.
Do you have an estimate on costs for fixing a bent rod, or valve job?
tempfixit
02-25-2012, 11:59 AM
I had a friend check it this morning. It's a valve job. I can't find an estimate or name for it in the Chilton database my library uses. It sounds like a sneaker in the engine, and won't even turn over.
It's leftover from my landlord putting antifreeze in my engine.
I'm on disability, and live in New Mexico, so as of right now, this means I have lost that, my ability to reach Dr's appointments, and get anything done at all.
I am truly screwed.
Do you have an estimate on costs for fixing a bent rod, or valve job?
What diagnose procedure was done to establish that it needs a valve job???
Was the anti-freeze put in the engine oil or in the gas tank??? If in the gas tank, the problems would be in the fuel supply system not internally in the engine as it would need to pass thru the injectors to get inside the engine. On the other side if in the oil the anit-freeze will cause damage to internal bearings and cause them to fail in time.
You say that it will not turn over. Did your friend try turning the engine with a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt that holds the harmonic balancer in place? Were the spark plugs removed to see if engine would turn over then?? Starter could be lockeed up also. More diagnoses need to be done to determine problem.
It's leftover from my landlord putting antifreeze in my engine.
I'm on disability, and live in New Mexico, so as of right now, this means I have lost that, my ability to reach Dr's appointments, and get anything done at all.
I am truly screwed.
Do you have an estimate on costs for fixing a bent rod, or valve job?
What diagnose procedure was done to establish that it needs a valve job???
Was the anti-freeze put in the engine oil or in the gas tank??? If in the gas tank, the problems would be in the fuel supply system not internally in the engine as it would need to pass thru the injectors to get inside the engine. On the other side if in the oil the anit-freeze will cause damage to internal bearings and cause them to fail in time.
You say that it will not turn over. Did your friend try turning the engine with a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt that holds the harmonic balancer in place? Were the spark plugs removed to see if engine would turn over then?? Starter could be lockeed up also. More diagnoses need to be done to determine problem.
Searles Lewis
02-25-2012, 01:20 PM
What diagnose procedure was done to establish that it needs a valve job???
Was the anti-freeze put in the engine oil or in the gas tank??? If in the gas tank, the problems would be in the fuel supply system not internally in the engine as it would need to pass thru the injectors to get inside the engine. On the other side if in the oil the anit-freeze will cause damage to internal bearings and cause them to fail in time.
You say that it will not turn over. Did your friend try turning the engine with a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt that holds the harmonic balancer in place? Were the spark plugs removed to see if engine would turn over then?? Starter could be locked up also. More diagnoses need to be done to determine problem.
Other than past experience, he has a stethescope with a rod on the end, to mimic using a screwdriver. He felt the engine, used that, and basically his past exeperience.
Was the anti-freeze put in the engine oil or in the gas tank??? If in the gas tank, the problems would be in the fuel supply system not internally in the engine as it would need to pass thru the injectors to get inside the engine. On the other side if in the oil the anit-freeze will cause damage to internal bearings and cause them to fail in time.
You say that it will not turn over. Did your friend try turning the engine with a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt that holds the harmonic balancer in place? Were the spark plugs removed to see if engine would turn over then?? Starter could be locked up also. More diagnoses need to be done to determine problem.
Other than past experience, he has a stethescope with a rod on the end, to mimic using a screwdriver. He felt the engine, used that, and basically his past exeperience.
Searles Lewis
02-25-2012, 01:29 PM
What diagnose procedure was done to establish that it needs a valve job???
Was the anti-freeze put in the engine oil or in the gas tank??? If in the gas tank, the problems would be in the fuel supply system not internally in the engine as it would need to pass thru the injectors to get inside the engine. On the other side if in the oil the anit-freeze will cause damage to internal bearings and cause them to fail in time.
You say that it will not turn over. Did your friend try turning the engine with a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt that holds the harmonic balancer in place? Were the spark plugs removed to see if engine would turn over then?? Starter could be lockeed up also. More diagnoses need to be done to determine problem.
We were driving home last Thursday? and it made the popping sound.
Actually, Wednesday, after church. It made the popping sound going up hill. It didn't seem to want to turn over, the starter cranks and cranks, nothing ever happens. He didn't try that, but given the priors on it, and it sounds like it's sticking, I'm guessing he might be right.
It sounded like a spark plug had come loose. I had to wait until Yesterday to try further, to get someplace where I could remove the cowl, and then test the connections. All the spark plug wires were connected, no spark plugs even loose. The tapping sound which had been building forever was now a popping, and now it refuses to turn over even at all.
He seemed genuinely pleased. I have been asking here, and every person I know, about it since the landlord anti-freezed the engine last Dec. 20th. I kept asking why the popping or ticking sound was so loud. Well, part of it was cuz the rubber exhaust hanger had broken, so I had to replace it. It got better, but then the popping sound started. It sounded just like when you mess up the threads on a spark plug and it fires. It also was obviously missing before that, loping, but I do no know how to tell or fix, and no one listened to me until today.
If you know how to proceed, tell me what to do. It's Saturday, I am on disability, I do not have know-how, but I have drive and will. I'll do it.
Was the anti-freeze put in the engine oil or in the gas tank??? If in the gas tank, the problems would be in the fuel supply system not internally in the engine as it would need to pass thru the injectors to get inside the engine. On the other side if in the oil the anit-freeze will cause damage to internal bearings and cause them to fail in time.
You say that it will not turn over. Did your friend try turning the engine with a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt that holds the harmonic balancer in place? Were the spark plugs removed to see if engine would turn over then?? Starter could be lockeed up also. More diagnoses need to be done to determine problem.
We were driving home last Thursday? and it made the popping sound.
Actually, Wednesday, after church. It made the popping sound going up hill. It didn't seem to want to turn over, the starter cranks and cranks, nothing ever happens. He didn't try that, but given the priors on it, and it sounds like it's sticking, I'm guessing he might be right.
It sounded like a spark plug had come loose. I had to wait until Yesterday to try further, to get someplace where I could remove the cowl, and then test the connections. All the spark plug wires were connected, no spark plugs even loose. The tapping sound which had been building forever was now a popping, and now it refuses to turn over even at all.
He seemed genuinely pleased. I have been asking here, and every person I know, about it since the landlord anti-freezed the engine last Dec. 20th. I kept asking why the popping or ticking sound was so loud. Well, part of it was cuz the rubber exhaust hanger had broken, so I had to replace it. It got better, but then the popping sound started. It sounded just like when you mess up the threads on a spark plug and it fires. It also was obviously missing before that, loping, but I do no know how to tell or fix, and no one listened to me until today.
If you know how to proceed, tell me what to do. It's Saturday, I am on disability, I do not have know-how, but I have drive and will. I'll do it.
tempfixit
02-25-2012, 01:36 PM
Other than past experience, he has a stethescope with a rod on the end, to mimic using a screwdriver. He felt the engine, used that, and basically his past exeperience.
So the engine does run now is what you are saying and he listened to it with a stethoscope. I am quessing that he heard a noise in the valve cover and says you need a valve job. You need to pull the valve cover off to see if anything is loose or broken. Are you able to pull the cover off yourself? If you can take the valve cover off and take pictures and post them that would be helpful. A compression test would also tell you potential problems. Until you do either or both of these steps it is all a quessing game..
So the engine does run now is what you are saying and he listened to it with a stethoscope. I am quessing that he heard a noise in the valve cover and says you need a valve job. You need to pull the valve cover off to see if anything is loose or broken. Are you able to pull the cover off yourself? If you can take the valve cover off and take pictures and post them that would be helpful. A compression test would also tell you potential problems. Until you do either or both of these steps it is all a quessing game..
Searles Lewis
02-25-2012, 01:37 PM
What diagnose procedure was done to establish that it needs a valve job???
Was the anti-freeze put in the engine oil or in the gas tank??? If in the gas tank, the problems would be in the fuel supply system not internally in the engine as it would need to pass thru the injectors to get inside the engine. On the other side if in the oil the anit-freeze will cause damage to internal bearings and cause them to fail in time.
You say that it will not turn over. Did your friend try turning the engine with a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt that holds the harmonic balancer in place? Were the spark plugs removed to see if engine would turn over then?? Starter could be lockeed up also. More diagnoses need to be done to determine problem.
It was put into the gas intake, went into the car. I posted here, found out after taking off the fuel filter the intake on it had green sweet-smelling fluid, so it had to be anti-freeze. The descriptions I read of it o nthe internet matched mine. I was using B-12 to doctor the fuel, it was running fine until this happened.
Does that help? I do not know enough about cars to know how to present info and symptoms enuff to know if what I am saying is right and explains well enuff to know.
The bottom of the engine is wet with oil.
Any clues? I have time, just not understanding and know-how.
Was the anti-freeze put in the engine oil or in the gas tank??? If in the gas tank, the problems would be in the fuel supply system not internally in the engine as it would need to pass thru the injectors to get inside the engine. On the other side if in the oil the anit-freeze will cause damage to internal bearings and cause them to fail in time.
You say that it will not turn over. Did your friend try turning the engine with a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt that holds the harmonic balancer in place? Were the spark plugs removed to see if engine would turn over then?? Starter could be lockeed up also. More diagnoses need to be done to determine problem.
It was put into the gas intake, went into the car. I posted here, found out after taking off the fuel filter the intake on it had green sweet-smelling fluid, so it had to be anti-freeze. The descriptions I read of it o nthe internet matched mine. I was using B-12 to doctor the fuel, it was running fine until this happened.
Does that help? I do not know enough about cars to know how to present info and symptoms enuff to know if what I am saying is right and explains well enuff to know.
The bottom of the engine is wet with oil.
Any clues? I have time, just not understanding and know-how.
Searles Lewis
02-25-2012, 01:47 PM
So the engine does run now is what you are saying and he listened to it with a stethoscope. I am quessing that he heard a noise in the valve cover and says you need a valve job. You need to pull the valve cover off to see if anything is loose or broken. Are you able to pull the cover off yourself? If you can take the valve cover off and take pictures and post them that would be helpful. A compression test would also tell you potential problems. Until you do either or both of these steps it is all a quessing game..
Okay, wow, this is what I needed. Thank you!
He didn't actually use the stethescope, Once I tried starting it, he smiled, said that, fiddled twice with something in the engine whit his hand ,and that was it.
I have a hayne's manual. About 20 miles away, I have an auto-zone. What do I need to take of the valve cover-is that the thing under the plenum on Windstars, or the plenum itself?
The oil leak is right along the edge of this, it's now most of the way around the engine.
Okay, wow, this is what I needed. Thank you!
He didn't actually use the stethescope, Once I tried starting it, he smiled, said that, fiddled twice with something in the engine whit his hand ,and that was it.
I have a hayne's manual. About 20 miles away, I have an auto-zone. What do I need to take of the valve cover-is that the thing under the plenum on Windstars, or the plenum itself?
The oil leak is right along the edge of this, it's now most of the way around the engine.
Searles Lewis
02-25-2012, 01:55 PM
Okay, wow, this is what I needed. Thank you!
He didn't actually use the stethescope, Once I tried starting it, he smiled, said that, fiddled twice with something in the engine whit his hand ,and that was it.
I have a hayne's manual. About 20 miles away, I have an auto-zone. What do I need to take of the valve cover-is that the thing under the plenum on Windstars, or the plenum itself?
The oil leak is right along the edge of this, it's now most of the way around the engine.
I can get the full plenum kit for 60$ for gaskets. Renting a compression tester is free after deposit returned.
I have done the valve cover before for a Geo Tracker back in 2001. The noise is coming from the plenum, or rapping back against the plenum.
He didn't actually use the stethescope, Once I tried starting it, he smiled, said that, fiddled twice with something in the engine whit his hand ,and that was it.
I have a hayne's manual. About 20 miles away, I have an auto-zone. What do I need to take of the valve cover-is that the thing under the plenum on Windstars, or the plenum itself?
The oil leak is right along the edge of this, it's now most of the way around the engine.
I can get the full plenum kit for 60$ for gaskets. Renting a compression tester is free after deposit returned.
I have done the valve cover before for a Geo Tracker back in 2001. The noise is coming from the plenum, or rapping back against the plenum.
tempfixit
02-25-2012, 02:20 PM
I can get the full plenum kit for 60$ for gaskets. Renting a compression tester is free after deposit returned.
I have done the valve cover before for a Geo Tracker back in 2001. The noise is coming from the plenum, or rapping back against the plenum.
Personally I have not taken a valve cover off of a 3.8, but have on may other engines. If you have done 1 before you should be able to remove this one. I would take the valve cover on the left side, as you think the noise is coming from that side and see what things look like before getting any parts. Left side should be by the radiator, is this the side you are pertaining too??? Do a search in the forum for code P0171 and P0174 which pertains to the isolator bolt upgrade for pics, that may help.
It could be a loose tappet hitting against the head making it sould like it is
coming from the plenium.
I have done the valve cover before for a Geo Tracker back in 2001. The noise is coming from the plenum, or rapping back against the plenum.
Personally I have not taken a valve cover off of a 3.8, but have on may other engines. If you have done 1 before you should be able to remove this one. I would take the valve cover on the left side, as you think the noise is coming from that side and see what things look like before getting any parts. Left side should be by the radiator, is this the side you are pertaining too??? Do a search in the forum for code P0171 and P0174 which pertains to the isolator bolt upgrade for pics, that may help.
It could be a loose tappet hitting against the head making it sould like it is
coming from the plenium.
Searles Lewis
02-25-2012, 04:12 PM
So the engine does run now is what you are saying and he listened to it with a stethoscope. I am quessing that he heard a noise in the valve cover and says you need a valve job. You need to pull the valve cover off to see if anything is loose or broken. Are you able to pull the cover off yourself? If you can take the valve cover off and take pictures and post them that would be helpful. A compression test would also tell you potential problems. Until you do either or both of these steps it is all a quessing game..
No, it did not. Maybe I my ignorance here is coming into play. I tried starting the engine this morning at 9 for him, and it was already making the thump. I was not successful.
And no, he brought it, but did not listen to it. Remember, unlike yourself, I do not know the terminology or what is important to say when posting here, so I use a "everything into the shotgun for shot" approach.
I was able to get My honey to start it, and it ran without being goosed. The thumping is still there, but not as loud. That happened just before I checked this site again.
Okay, I believe the valve cover gasket is 12-20$, and the valve compression check can be done with a rental machine, so I'll jump and post back here with my results. I am very grateful for your patience!
Before it is fixed, should I drive it? He suggested either it was a timing issue, or else the valve, and that was just, he said, from the noise and past experience.
No, it did not. Maybe I my ignorance here is coming into play. I tried starting the engine this morning at 9 for him, and it was already making the thump. I was not successful.
And no, he brought it, but did not listen to it. Remember, unlike yourself, I do not know the terminology or what is important to say when posting here, so I use a "everything into the shotgun for shot" approach.
I was able to get My honey to start it, and it ran without being goosed. The thumping is still there, but not as loud. That happened just before I checked this site again.
Okay, I believe the valve cover gasket is 12-20$, and the valve compression check can be done with a rental machine, so I'll jump and post back here with my results. I am very grateful for your patience!
Before it is fixed, should I drive it? He suggested either it was a timing issue, or else the valve, and that was just, he said, from the noise and past experience.
Searles Lewis
02-25-2012, 04:14 PM
Personally I have not taken a valve cover off of a 3.8, but have on may other engines. If you have done 1 before you should be able to remove this one. I would take the valve cover on the left side, as you think the noise is coming from that side and see what things look like before getting any parts. Left side should be by the radiator, is this the side you are pertaining too??? Do a search in the forum for code P0171 and P0174 which pertains to the isolator bolt upgrade for pics, that may help.
It could be a loose tappet hitting against the head making it sould like it is
coming from the plenium.
Would the tappet make the constant tick-tick-tick sound before? How is that repaired?
It could be a loose tappet hitting against the head making it sould like it is
coming from the plenium.
Would the tappet make the constant tick-tick-tick sound before? How is that repaired?
tempfixit
02-25-2012, 04:45 PM
Would the tappet make the constant tick-tick-tick sound before? How is that repaired?
I should ask how many miles on the engine??? Yes a tappet would have a tick, tick sound to it, if it is not getting oil or a little loose. It could be just the tapppet itself that is worn and all you would need is new tappet and push rod unless the valve stem is worn unevenly as in to one side of stem. Could also be a colasped lifter.
Take the valve cover off and inspect the push rods and rocker arms (tappets). Install new push rod and rocker arm. First tighten bolt on the rocker arm to 44 in-lbs. then tighten to 24 ft-lbs.
I should ask how many miles on the engine??? Yes a tappet would have a tick, tick sound to it, if it is not getting oil or a little loose. It could be just the tapppet itself that is worn and all you would need is new tappet and push rod unless the valve stem is worn unevenly as in to one side of stem. Could also be a colasped lifter.
Take the valve cover off and inspect the push rods and rocker arms (tappets). Install new push rod and rocker arm. First tighten bolt on the rocker arm to 44 in-lbs. then tighten to 24 ft-lbs.
wiswind
02-25-2012, 05:42 PM
I posted in your other post but it seems that you are thinking that it is a valvetrain issue.
The first picture that I am putting here is just to give you background information on how the valvetrain in the 3.8L in your vehicle works.......you do NOT need to tear down this far......I took this picture while doing the LOWER intake manifold gaskets.....
In this picture.....you will see the ballance shaft.....and way down at the bottom of the "V" in the middle.....that all the lifter rods go down to.....is the camshaft.
The lifter rods ride on little "wheels" on the camshaft....and the lobes on the camshaft cause the rods to go up and down.
Oil also travels up the inside of the rods....
http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/49292/2406703960011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2406703960011220610bjzjxv)
Now for what you are wanting to look at.
This picture shows my '96 3.8L (yours will be super similar) with the front valve cover off.
You can see the rods (lifters) coming up and are against the "rocker" arm.
As the rod pushes UP....the other end of the rocker arm will rock down....and push the valve down....which is the open position.
http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/37980/2953947960011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2953947960011220610AwaHND)
Here is a picture of the Fel Pro "Perma Dry" valve gasket set WITH the grommets (you can get them with or without the grommets.
http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/48968/2110616580011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2110616580011220610gvgAId)
I looked up the valve cover gasket for your 2000 on Rockauto....and you have the same setup...with the grommets on the bolts.
This picture shows the bolts and grommets.
Some of the bolts are normal bolts.
Some bolts, like the one shown in the picture are also studs upon which wire harness fasteners are located.
The metal "sleeve" goes down through the bolt hole in the valve cover and the gromet goes onto the metal sleeve.....the bolt passing through the middle of both.
It wil make a lot more sense when you take it apart.
The "perma dry" gaskets are highly recommended, you clean the mating surfaces for the gasket and dry fit the gasket, meaning you do NOT add any sealant, etc to it.
You were advised to do the front valve cover because it is so much easier than the rear one.....best to remove the cowl (the big plastic part that the windshield wipers are mounted over) to do the rear valve cover.
http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/21347/2458212950011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2458212950011220610lmEggL)
The first picture that I am putting here is just to give you background information on how the valvetrain in the 3.8L in your vehicle works.......you do NOT need to tear down this far......I took this picture while doing the LOWER intake manifold gaskets.....
In this picture.....you will see the ballance shaft.....and way down at the bottom of the "V" in the middle.....that all the lifter rods go down to.....is the camshaft.
The lifter rods ride on little "wheels" on the camshaft....and the lobes on the camshaft cause the rods to go up and down.
Oil also travels up the inside of the rods....
http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/49292/2406703960011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2406703960011220610bjzjxv)
Now for what you are wanting to look at.
This picture shows my '96 3.8L (yours will be super similar) with the front valve cover off.
You can see the rods (lifters) coming up and are against the "rocker" arm.
As the rod pushes UP....the other end of the rocker arm will rock down....and push the valve down....which is the open position.
http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/37980/2953947960011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2953947960011220610AwaHND)
Here is a picture of the Fel Pro "Perma Dry" valve gasket set WITH the grommets (you can get them with or without the grommets.
http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/48968/2110616580011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2110616580011220610gvgAId)
I looked up the valve cover gasket for your 2000 on Rockauto....and you have the same setup...with the grommets on the bolts.
This picture shows the bolts and grommets.
Some of the bolts are normal bolts.
Some bolts, like the one shown in the picture are also studs upon which wire harness fasteners are located.
The metal "sleeve" goes down through the bolt hole in the valve cover and the gromet goes onto the metal sleeve.....the bolt passing through the middle of both.
It wil make a lot more sense when you take it apart.
The "perma dry" gaskets are highly recommended, you clean the mating surfaces for the gasket and dry fit the gasket, meaning you do NOT add any sealant, etc to it.
You were advised to do the front valve cover because it is so much easier than the rear one.....best to remove the cowl (the big plastic part that the windshield wipers are mounted over) to do the rear valve cover.
http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/21347/2458212950011220610S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2458212950011220610lmEggL)
Searles Lewis
02-26-2012, 04:27 PM
Here is a video with the engine and noise. I spoke to my neighbor, he stated the noise and vibration can be from anywhere, so next I'm doing a valve compression check, will post results here.
If nothing happens, I'll take the front valve cover off after that!
http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg
What do you think?
If nothing happens, I'll take the front valve cover off after that!
http://youtu.be/01T1R2Aecdg
What do you think?
wiswind
02-26-2012, 05:03 PM
I'm not any expert, but it is sounding more like something other than a loose part in the upper intake manifold.
A broken valve spring or rocker arm is a much easier repair than many other things....and are things that folks have reported having had happen on their Windstar.
If it is in the front bank, that would also make it much easier......that is a long lean over to reach the back bank.
I do not think that it is anything driven by the serpentine belt....but to verify, you could take the belt off.....and start the vehicle....running it only a few seconds won't hurt.
If the sound is still there, then it is not something driven by the belt......if the sound goes away, then it is something driven by the belt.
I have always had a really hard time locating the source of sounds in the engine compartment.....even using the screwdriver to the ear method.....the sounds have always saturated my hearing to the point that I'm only guessing, usually wrong.
A broken valve spring or rocker arm is a much easier repair than many other things....and are things that folks have reported having had happen on their Windstar.
If it is in the front bank, that would also make it much easier......that is a long lean over to reach the back bank.
I do not think that it is anything driven by the serpentine belt....but to verify, you could take the belt off.....and start the vehicle....running it only a few seconds won't hurt.
If the sound is still there, then it is not something driven by the belt......if the sound goes away, then it is something driven by the belt.
I have always had a really hard time locating the source of sounds in the engine compartment.....even using the screwdriver to the ear method.....the sounds have always saturated my hearing to the point that I'm only guessing, usually wrong.
tempfixit
02-26-2012, 07:14 PM
Please do not start any more threads on this probblem as it is to hard to follow with multiple threads.
Olopezm and Wiswind have a very good suggestion to remove serpentine belt to help eliminate possiblities. Very possible that the harmonic balancer is bad like Olopezm suggests, you mayy have to remove right wheel and splash guard to inspect and or remove.
To me it sounds like something hitting against plastic but hard to say with a video. Another possibility is that you have a a bad connecting rod bearing causing the knock. Report results of compression test.
WE NEED A ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION:
WHERE WAS THE ANTIFREEZE PUT INTO THE VEHICLE???? WAS ANTIFREEZE PUT INTO GAS TANK OR WAS IT PUT INTO THE ENGINE CRANKCASE THRU OIL FILLER CAP????? ANTIFREEZE IN OIL WILL DAMAGE BEARINGS.
Olopezm and Wiswind have a very good suggestion to remove serpentine belt to help eliminate possiblities. Very possible that the harmonic balancer is bad like Olopezm suggests, you mayy have to remove right wheel and splash guard to inspect and or remove.
To me it sounds like something hitting against plastic but hard to say with a video. Another possibility is that you have a a bad connecting rod bearing causing the knock. Report results of compression test.
WE NEED A ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION:
WHERE WAS THE ANTIFREEZE PUT INTO THE VEHICLE???? WAS ANTIFREEZE PUT INTO GAS TANK OR WAS IT PUT INTO THE ENGINE CRANKCASE THRU OIL FILLER CAP????? ANTIFREEZE IN OIL WILL DAMAGE BEARINGS.
Searles Lewis
02-27-2012, 08:57 PM
Please do not start any more threads on this probblem as it is to hard to follow with multiple threads.
Olopezm and Wiswind have a very good suggestion to remove serpentine belt to help eliminate possiblities. Very possible that the harmonic balancer is bad like Olopezm suggests, you mayy have to remove right wheel and splash guard to inspect and or remove.
To me it sounds like something hitting against plastic but hard to say with a video. Another possibility is that you have a a bad connecting rod bearing causing the knock. Report results of compression test.
WE NEED A ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION:
WHERE WAS THE ANTIFREEZE PUT INTO THE VEHICLE???? WAS ANTIFREEZE PUT INTO GAS TANK OR WAS IT PUT INTO THE ENGINE CRANKCASE THRU OIL FILLER CAP????? ANTIFREEZE IN OIL WILL DAMAGE BEARINGS.
It was put into the gas tank on Dec. 20th, by my landlord. I confirmd this by removing the fuel filter, which had green stuff oozing out of the intake side. It was anti-freeze. He was trying to retaliate for my attempting a wage garnishment against him.
I checked the valve compression-120-130-13-120-130-120, all fine.
My friend stated it might be a problem with the timing. I know he has broken, my landlord, into people's cars and apartments in the complex, and to tick other people off with kids, hired a convicted child molestor to do apt. maintenance, so I remembered back, and this happened about a week ago, maybe less, and I think it looked like when I popped the hood, two of the rear spark plug wires had been switched. That might account for everything.
The problem is, the haynes manual I have does not have a numbered pic showing the coil pack, and the spark plugs they attach to from it.
Does anyone know where to obtain that? My friend stated it also could the crank sensor affecting the timing.
What I figured I'd do is:
1. Re-attach the spark plugs and wires to the coil pack in correct order; and
2. Pour the remaining B-12 Chemtool into the engine compartment, run for a little bit, and then change the oil to make sure a lifter or rod arm is not sticking.
What does everyone think of that?
Olopezm and Wiswind have a very good suggestion to remove serpentine belt to help eliminate possiblities. Very possible that the harmonic balancer is bad like Olopezm suggests, you mayy have to remove right wheel and splash guard to inspect and or remove.
To me it sounds like something hitting against plastic but hard to say with a video. Another possibility is that you have a a bad connecting rod bearing causing the knock. Report results of compression test.
WE NEED A ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION:
WHERE WAS THE ANTIFREEZE PUT INTO THE VEHICLE???? WAS ANTIFREEZE PUT INTO GAS TANK OR WAS IT PUT INTO THE ENGINE CRANKCASE THRU OIL FILLER CAP????? ANTIFREEZE IN OIL WILL DAMAGE BEARINGS.
It was put into the gas tank on Dec. 20th, by my landlord. I confirmd this by removing the fuel filter, which had green stuff oozing out of the intake side. It was anti-freeze. He was trying to retaliate for my attempting a wage garnishment against him.
I checked the valve compression-120-130-13-120-130-120, all fine.
My friend stated it might be a problem with the timing. I know he has broken, my landlord, into people's cars and apartments in the complex, and to tick other people off with kids, hired a convicted child molestor to do apt. maintenance, so I remembered back, and this happened about a week ago, maybe less, and I think it looked like when I popped the hood, two of the rear spark plug wires had been switched. That might account for everything.
The problem is, the haynes manual I have does not have a numbered pic showing the coil pack, and the spark plugs they attach to from it.
Does anyone know where to obtain that? My friend stated it also could the crank sensor affecting the timing.
What I figured I'd do is:
1. Re-attach the spark plugs and wires to the coil pack in correct order; and
2. Pour the remaining B-12 Chemtool into the engine compartment, run for a little bit, and then change the oil to make sure a lifter or rod arm is not sticking.
What does everyone think of that?
Searles Lewis
02-27-2012, 09:01 PM
What diagnose procedure was done to establish that it needs a valve job???
Was the anti-freeze put in the engine oil or in the gas tank??? If in the gas tank, the problems would be in the fuel supply system not internally in the engine as it would need to pass thru the injectors to get inside the engine. On the other side if in the oil the anit-freeze will cause damage to internal bearings and cause them to fail in time.
You say that it will not turn over. Did your friend try turning the engine with a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt that holds the harmonic balancer in place? Were the spark plugs removed to see if engine would turn over then?? Starter could be lockeed up also. More diagnoses need to be done to determine problem.
You were right about the whole thing. Not a valve job, but probably timing-think the landlord jimmied the van's door, then popped the hood and switched the spark plug wires.
He mostly hires convicts, so I'm sure if he did not already know how, one of them could show him how to do it.
So, to continue...
I checked the valve compression-120-130-13-120-130-120, all fine.
My friend stated it might be a problem with the timing. I know he has broken, my landlord, into people's cars and apartments in the complex, and to tick other people off with kids, hired a convicted child molestor to do apt. maintenance, so I remembered back, and this happened about a week ago, maybe less, and I think it looked like when I popped the hood, two of the rear spark plug wires had been switched. That might account for everything.
The problem is, the haynes manual I have does not have a numbered pic showing the coil pack, and the spark plugs they attach to from it.
Does anyone know where to obtain that? My friend stated it also could the crank sensor affecting the timing.
What I figured I'd do is:
1. Re-attach the spark plugs and wires to the coil pack in correct order; and
2. Pour the remaining B-12 Chemtool into the engine compartment, run for a little bit, and then change the oil to make sure a lifter or rod arm is not sticking.
What does everyone think of that?
Was the anti-freeze put in the engine oil or in the gas tank??? If in the gas tank, the problems would be in the fuel supply system not internally in the engine as it would need to pass thru the injectors to get inside the engine. On the other side if in the oil the anit-freeze will cause damage to internal bearings and cause them to fail in time.
You say that it will not turn over. Did your friend try turning the engine with a socket and breaker bar on the crankshaft bolt that holds the harmonic balancer in place? Were the spark plugs removed to see if engine would turn over then?? Starter could be lockeed up also. More diagnoses need to be done to determine problem.
You were right about the whole thing. Not a valve job, but probably timing-think the landlord jimmied the van's door, then popped the hood and switched the spark plug wires.
He mostly hires convicts, so I'm sure if he did not already know how, one of them could show him how to do it.
So, to continue...
I checked the valve compression-120-130-13-120-130-120, all fine.
My friend stated it might be a problem with the timing. I know he has broken, my landlord, into people's cars and apartments in the complex, and to tick other people off with kids, hired a convicted child molestor to do apt. maintenance, so I remembered back, and this happened about a week ago, maybe less, and I think it looked like when I popped the hood, two of the rear spark plug wires had been switched. That might account for everything.
The problem is, the haynes manual I have does not have a numbered pic showing the coil pack, and the spark plugs they attach to from it.
Does anyone know where to obtain that? My friend stated it also could the crank sensor affecting the timing.
What I figured I'd do is:
1. Re-attach the spark plugs and wires to the coil pack in correct order; and
2. Pour the remaining B-12 Chemtool into the engine compartment, run for a little bit, and then change the oil to make sure a lifter or rod arm is not sticking.
What does everyone think of that?
Searles Lewis
02-27-2012, 09:05 PM
I'm not any expert, but it is sounding more like something other than a loose part in the upper intake manifold.
A broken valve spring or rocker arm is a much easier repair than many other things....and are things that folks have reported having had happen on their Windstar.
If it is in the front bank, that would also make it much easier......that is a long lean over to reach the back bank.
I do not think that it is anything driven by the serpentine belt....but to verify, you could take the belt off.....and start the vehicle....running it only a few seconds won't hurt.
If the sound is still there, then it is not something driven by the belt......if the sound goes away, then it is something driven by the belt.
I have always had a really hard time locating the source of sounds in the engine compartment.....even using the screwdriver to the ear method.....the sounds have always saturated my hearing to the point that I'm only guessing, usually wrong.
I'm glad you said that about locating and hearing. My hearing is really, really very good, and I am overly sensitive to a lot of things. However, I lack the ability to locate things like this. When my friend stated it could come from anywhere, he has problems too, it gave me relief as your statement has.
I think it was intentional sabotage. It sounded perfect with the plugs out, no problems, and now I just need the order for the coil pack and the places the plugs go into the engine.
Thanks everyone for the help!
A broken valve spring or rocker arm is a much easier repair than many other things....and are things that folks have reported having had happen on their Windstar.
If it is in the front bank, that would also make it much easier......that is a long lean over to reach the back bank.
I do not think that it is anything driven by the serpentine belt....but to verify, you could take the belt off.....and start the vehicle....running it only a few seconds won't hurt.
If the sound is still there, then it is not something driven by the belt......if the sound goes away, then it is something driven by the belt.
I have always had a really hard time locating the source of sounds in the engine compartment.....even using the screwdriver to the ear method.....the sounds have always saturated my hearing to the point that I'm only guessing, usually wrong.
I'm glad you said that about locating and hearing. My hearing is really, really very good, and I am overly sensitive to a lot of things. However, I lack the ability to locate things like this. When my friend stated it could come from anywhere, he has problems too, it gave me relief as your statement has.
I think it was intentional sabotage. It sounded perfect with the plugs out, no problems, and now I just need the order for the coil pack and the places the plugs go into the engine.
Thanks everyone for the help!
olopezm
02-27-2012, 09:30 PM
Here's the numbering
Windshield side
1--2--3
4--5--6
Front of vehicle
Coil (it should have a diagram on it if it's original):
4 PIN CONNECTOR
-1--2--3-
-5--6--4-
Oscar.
Windshield side
1--2--3
4--5--6
Front of vehicle
Coil (it should have a diagram on it if it's original):
4 PIN CONNECTOR
-1--2--3-
-5--6--4-
Oscar.
Searles Lewis
02-28-2012, 09:02 PM
Here's the numbering
Windshield side
1--2--3
4--5--6
Front of vehicle
Coil (it should have a diagram on it if it's original):
4 PIN CONNECTOR
-1--2--3-
-5--6--4-
Oscar.
Okay, I obviously now understand what the ordering thing inthe Haynes book means. Thank you!
I checked, #2 spark plug was cracked all the way around, looked like when he jammed the wire down from above, prolly doing it fast and nervous ,he cracked the plug, it has brown burnt marks al laround it.
I will hook this up tomorrow with new, Autolite spark plugs, plats, all 6, after I gap them tonight.
I will also check the coil pack, too.
Thanks for the visual, I understand he directions now! Wow, all this because he started harassing us, lost his eviction case, and now does not want us to collect the 9k$ in fees he owes for the lawyer.
Windshield side
1--2--3
4--5--6
Front of vehicle
Coil (it should have a diagram on it if it's original):
4 PIN CONNECTOR
-1--2--3-
-5--6--4-
Oscar.
Okay, I obviously now understand what the ordering thing inthe Haynes book means. Thank you!
I checked, #2 spark plug was cracked all the way around, looked like when he jammed the wire down from above, prolly doing it fast and nervous ,he cracked the plug, it has brown burnt marks al laround it.
I will hook this up tomorrow with new, Autolite spark plugs, plats, all 6, after I gap them tonight.
I will also check the coil pack, too.
Thanks for the visual, I understand he directions now! Wow, all this because he started harassing us, lost his eviction case, and now does not want us to collect the 9k$ in fees he owes for the lawyer.
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