1st and reverse only, 5 speed Manual 97 SL
steelerguy
02-05-2012, 02:59 PM
97 Satirm SL with a 5 speed manual transmission only has 1st and reverse. Can usually not even put the clutch in and it runs in 1st gear without stalling like a 1 gear automatic transmission. Weird
The Shifter moves normally but there is no 2 thru 5. Can put it in reverse. Drove it 3 miles to my home.
Anyway this is clutch related or some relatively cheap adjustment? The car is not worth the price of a new Xmission. Other alternative like replacing with an automatic xmission?
The Shifter moves normally but there is no 2 thru 5. Can put it in reverse. Drove it 3 miles to my home.
Anyway this is clutch related or some relatively cheap adjustment? The car is not worth the price of a new Xmission. Other alternative like replacing with an automatic xmission?
denisond3
02-06-2012, 08:36 AM
Hopefully Im wrong, and a better guesser will come along, but here are my thoughts..........
When you say you cant put the clutch in, does you mean the pedal has a normal feel to it (foot-pressurewise), but with the pedal down you arent able to put the shift lever into the gears 2,3,4,5? And when you say you can put it into first like a one gear automatic transmission, is that without pushing the clutch down?
One possibility is that the fluid in the clutch hydraulics has gotten low, and the clutch slave cylinder isnt getting pushed in - because there is air in the line. This would probably involve feeling less pressure when you push the clutch pedal down than it used to have. If you check the fluid level in the clutch master cylinder and find it low, then you may only need to get a new master/slave clutch hydraulics kit. They sell the master and slave cylinder together, connected by the nylon tube. They can be installed without removing the transmission, but you still have to remove the battery and air filter housing and the large rubber air inlet duct. The fluid used in the clutch hydraulics is the same as brake fluid. I suppose its possible to add fluid and bleed the air out, but thats only a temporary solution; such as for a week or two, while checking the fluid level fairly often.
Another possibility would be that your clutch slave cylinder has partly come out of the trans housing. The way they mount is by pushing the slave cylinder into the trans and rotating it so the 'ears' on the slave cylinder fit into the 'ears' of the hole in the transmission; sort of the way the lid of a pill-bottle works. You only have to rotate it about 45 degrees to remove the slave cylinder, but I forget whether its clockwise or counterclockwise. Its not too hard to do, but takes some strength, and its possible to get it installed - incompletely.
I think thats about the end of the good news...
Its also possible your clutch is totaly worn out - enough that the clutch disc has unravelled some of its 'fabric' and the loose strands are what is keeping the clutch from being fully disengaged. They jam up the space between the pressure plate & flywheel, that should normally just be 'air' when the clutch pedal is depressed. This would prevent you from being able to put it into the middle gears, though you might be able to shove the shift lever into first and have the car move along. This is only because first gear is a low enough ratio, that even when it would be slipping a lot in 2,3,4 or 5, it will at least pull the car along (on more or less level terrain) in first. And low gear is an equally low gearing. The mineral fabric of the clutch disc can begin to will come apart from the extreme overheating it sees when it slips too much.
I suppose your symptoms could also be a cracked fork that is supposed to be pushing the throwout bearing in, or even a pressure plate where several of the 'fingers' of the flat spring are broken. Thats more rare, and usually there is noise, from the broken fingers getting thrashed around inside the bell housing.
All this assumes that with the engine stopped and the car not moving, you can move the shift lever around into the gears, inlcuding 2,3,4,5. It will take some wiggling though, as it wont go into all gears easily, with the transmission totally motionless.
There is a well known failure mode on the Saturn shifting setup. There is a bushing that breaks down that moves one of the two shifting calbes back and forth. This is the cable that makes the move from 1-2 on the left, over to 5-R on the right side of the shift gate. When it breaks you can usually get the trans into either 1 & 2 or 3 & 4, but not into 5 or R. The bushing isnt too hard to replace, but its inside the console, below the shift lever. Your symptoms dont sound like this is your problem. Also the shift cables themselves can get loose where their outer sheath is clamped onto the back side of the transmission. The clips can break from rusting away. Again, this doesnt sound like your problem, since you are able to get the trans into 1st and into reverse - which would involve both shift cables still working okay.
If the problem is with the clutch hydraulics, its fixable without pulling the transmission out. (It comes out together with the engine by the way). The broken shifter bushing is not hard to fix. If its a problem is inside the bell housing - the trans has to come out. And that a big job.
If you got it fixed, it might give you years of reliable transportation. I did this myself, and really enjoy driving a car that I put back on the road.
Good Luck in any case.
When you say you cant put the clutch in, does you mean the pedal has a normal feel to it (foot-pressurewise), but with the pedal down you arent able to put the shift lever into the gears 2,3,4,5? And when you say you can put it into first like a one gear automatic transmission, is that without pushing the clutch down?
One possibility is that the fluid in the clutch hydraulics has gotten low, and the clutch slave cylinder isnt getting pushed in - because there is air in the line. This would probably involve feeling less pressure when you push the clutch pedal down than it used to have. If you check the fluid level in the clutch master cylinder and find it low, then you may only need to get a new master/slave clutch hydraulics kit. They sell the master and slave cylinder together, connected by the nylon tube. They can be installed without removing the transmission, but you still have to remove the battery and air filter housing and the large rubber air inlet duct. The fluid used in the clutch hydraulics is the same as brake fluid. I suppose its possible to add fluid and bleed the air out, but thats only a temporary solution; such as for a week or two, while checking the fluid level fairly often.
Another possibility would be that your clutch slave cylinder has partly come out of the trans housing. The way they mount is by pushing the slave cylinder into the trans and rotating it so the 'ears' on the slave cylinder fit into the 'ears' of the hole in the transmission; sort of the way the lid of a pill-bottle works. You only have to rotate it about 45 degrees to remove the slave cylinder, but I forget whether its clockwise or counterclockwise. Its not too hard to do, but takes some strength, and its possible to get it installed - incompletely.
I think thats about the end of the good news...
Its also possible your clutch is totaly worn out - enough that the clutch disc has unravelled some of its 'fabric' and the loose strands are what is keeping the clutch from being fully disengaged. They jam up the space between the pressure plate & flywheel, that should normally just be 'air' when the clutch pedal is depressed. This would prevent you from being able to put it into the middle gears, though you might be able to shove the shift lever into first and have the car move along. This is only because first gear is a low enough ratio, that even when it would be slipping a lot in 2,3,4 or 5, it will at least pull the car along (on more or less level terrain) in first. And low gear is an equally low gearing. The mineral fabric of the clutch disc can begin to will come apart from the extreme overheating it sees when it slips too much.
I suppose your symptoms could also be a cracked fork that is supposed to be pushing the throwout bearing in, or even a pressure plate where several of the 'fingers' of the flat spring are broken. Thats more rare, and usually there is noise, from the broken fingers getting thrashed around inside the bell housing.
All this assumes that with the engine stopped and the car not moving, you can move the shift lever around into the gears, inlcuding 2,3,4,5. It will take some wiggling though, as it wont go into all gears easily, with the transmission totally motionless.
There is a well known failure mode on the Saturn shifting setup. There is a bushing that breaks down that moves one of the two shifting calbes back and forth. This is the cable that makes the move from 1-2 on the left, over to 5-R on the right side of the shift gate. When it breaks you can usually get the trans into either 1 & 2 or 3 & 4, but not into 5 or R. The bushing isnt too hard to replace, but its inside the console, below the shift lever. Your symptoms dont sound like this is your problem. Also the shift cables themselves can get loose where their outer sheath is clamped onto the back side of the transmission. The clips can break from rusting away. Again, this doesnt sound like your problem, since you are able to get the trans into 1st and into reverse - which would involve both shift cables still working okay.
If the problem is with the clutch hydraulics, its fixable without pulling the transmission out. (It comes out together with the engine by the way). The broken shifter bushing is not hard to fix. If its a problem is inside the bell housing - the trans has to come out. And that a big job.
If you got it fixed, it might give you years of reliable transportation. I did this myself, and really enjoy driving a car that I put back on the road.
Good Luck in any case.
steelerguy
01-29-2013, 02:31 PM
Thanks denisond3
I got this mixed up with my most recent thread. The thread you answered was fixed by new clutch.
I will check the clutch fluid levels. The clutch is less than a year old & I probably should call the mechanic that put it in. I don't have 1st and 2nd. 3rd, 4th, 5th and R are there but it's like everything has physically displaced to the left. There's no grinding because there's no way to attempt to shift into 1st or 2nd. I have to work so can't pull the center console to tak a quick peak.
Hopefully Im wrong, and a better guesser will come along, but here are my thoughts..........
When you say you cant put the clutch in, does you mean the pedal has a normal feel to it (foot-pressurewise), but with the pedal down you arent able to put the shift lever into the gears 2,3,4,5? And when you say you can put it into first like a one gear automatic transmission, is that without pushing the clutch down?
One possibility is that the fluid in the clutch hydraulics has gotten low, and the clutch slave cylinder isnt getting pushed in - because there is air in the line. This would probably involve feeling less pressure when you push the clutch pedal down than it used to have. If you check the fluid level in the clutch master cylinder and find it low, then you may only need to get a new master/slave clutch hydraulics kit. They sell the master and slave cylinder together, connected by the nylon tube. They can be installed without removing the transmission, but you still have to remove the battery and air filter housing and the large rubber air inlet duct. The fluid used in the clutch hydraulics is the same as brake fluid. I suppose its possible to add fluid and bleed the air out, but thats only a temporary solution; such as for a week or two, while checking the fluid level fairly often.
Another possibility would be that your clutch slave cylinder has partly come out of the trans housing. The way they mount is by pushing the slave cylinder into the trans and rotating it so the 'ears' on the slave cylinder fit into the 'ears' of the hole in the transmission; sort of the way the lid of a pill-bottle works. You only have to rotate it about 45 degrees to remove the slave cylinder, but I forget whether its clockwise or counterclockwise. Its not too hard to do, but takes some strength, and its possible to get it installed - incompletely.
I think thats about the end of the good news...
Its also possible your clutch is totaly worn out - enough that the clutch disc has unravelled some of its 'fabric' and the loose strands are what is keeping the clutch from being fully disengaged. They jam up the space between the pressure plate & flywheel, that should normally just be 'air' when the clutch pedal is depressed. This would prevent you from being able to put it into the middle gears, though you might be able to shove the shift lever into first and have the car move along. This is only because first gear is a low enough ratio, that even when it would be slipping a lot in 2,3,4 or 5, it will at least pull the car along (on more or less level terrain) in first. And low gear is an equally low gearing. The mineral fabric of the clutch disc can begin to will come apart from the extreme overheating it sees when it slips too much.
I suppose your symptoms could also be a cracked fork that is supposed to be pushing the throwout bearing in, or even a pressure plate where several of the 'fingers' of the flat spring are broken. Thats more rare, and usually there is noise, from the broken fingers getting thrashed around inside the bell housing.
All this assumes that with the engine stopped and the car not moving, you can move the shift lever around into the gears, inlcuding 2,3,4,5. It will take some wiggling though, as it wont go into all gears easily, with the transmission totally motionless.
There is a well known failure mode on the Saturn shifting setup. There is a bushing that breaks down that moves one of the two shifting calbes back and forth. This is the cable that makes the move from 1-2 on the left, over to 5-R on the right side of the shift gate. When it breaks you can usually get the trans into either 1 & 2 or 3 & 4, but not into 5 or R. The bushing isnt too hard to replace, but its inside the console, below the shift lever. Your symptoms dont sound like this is your problem. Also the shift cables themselves can get loose where their outer sheath is clamped onto the back side of the transmission. The clips can break from rusting away. Again, this doesnt sound like your problem, since you are able to get the trans into 1st and into reverse - which would involve both shift cables still working okay.
If the problem is with the clutch hydraulics, its fixable without pulling the transmission out. (It comes out together with the engine by the way). The broken shifter bushing is not hard to fix. If its a problem is inside the bell housing - the trans has to come out. And that a big job.
If you got it fixed, it might give you years of reliable transportation. I did this myself, and really enjoy driving a car that I put back on the road.
Good Luck in any case.
I got this mixed up with my most recent thread. The thread you answered was fixed by new clutch.
I will check the clutch fluid levels. The clutch is less than a year old & I probably should call the mechanic that put it in. I don't have 1st and 2nd. 3rd, 4th, 5th and R are there but it's like everything has physically displaced to the left. There's no grinding because there's no way to attempt to shift into 1st or 2nd. I have to work so can't pull the center console to tak a quick peak.
Hopefully Im wrong, and a better guesser will come along, but here are my thoughts..........
When you say you cant put the clutch in, does you mean the pedal has a normal feel to it (foot-pressurewise), but with the pedal down you arent able to put the shift lever into the gears 2,3,4,5? And when you say you can put it into first like a one gear automatic transmission, is that without pushing the clutch down?
One possibility is that the fluid in the clutch hydraulics has gotten low, and the clutch slave cylinder isnt getting pushed in - because there is air in the line. This would probably involve feeling less pressure when you push the clutch pedal down than it used to have. If you check the fluid level in the clutch master cylinder and find it low, then you may only need to get a new master/slave clutch hydraulics kit. They sell the master and slave cylinder together, connected by the nylon tube. They can be installed without removing the transmission, but you still have to remove the battery and air filter housing and the large rubber air inlet duct. The fluid used in the clutch hydraulics is the same as brake fluid. I suppose its possible to add fluid and bleed the air out, but thats only a temporary solution; such as for a week or two, while checking the fluid level fairly often.
Another possibility would be that your clutch slave cylinder has partly come out of the trans housing. The way they mount is by pushing the slave cylinder into the trans and rotating it so the 'ears' on the slave cylinder fit into the 'ears' of the hole in the transmission; sort of the way the lid of a pill-bottle works. You only have to rotate it about 45 degrees to remove the slave cylinder, but I forget whether its clockwise or counterclockwise. Its not too hard to do, but takes some strength, and its possible to get it installed - incompletely.
I think thats about the end of the good news...
Its also possible your clutch is totaly worn out - enough that the clutch disc has unravelled some of its 'fabric' and the loose strands are what is keeping the clutch from being fully disengaged. They jam up the space between the pressure plate & flywheel, that should normally just be 'air' when the clutch pedal is depressed. This would prevent you from being able to put it into the middle gears, though you might be able to shove the shift lever into first and have the car move along. This is only because first gear is a low enough ratio, that even when it would be slipping a lot in 2,3,4 or 5, it will at least pull the car along (on more or less level terrain) in first. And low gear is an equally low gearing. The mineral fabric of the clutch disc can begin to will come apart from the extreme overheating it sees when it slips too much.
I suppose your symptoms could also be a cracked fork that is supposed to be pushing the throwout bearing in, or even a pressure plate where several of the 'fingers' of the flat spring are broken. Thats more rare, and usually there is noise, from the broken fingers getting thrashed around inside the bell housing.
All this assumes that with the engine stopped and the car not moving, you can move the shift lever around into the gears, inlcuding 2,3,4,5. It will take some wiggling though, as it wont go into all gears easily, with the transmission totally motionless.
There is a well known failure mode on the Saturn shifting setup. There is a bushing that breaks down that moves one of the two shifting calbes back and forth. This is the cable that makes the move from 1-2 on the left, over to 5-R on the right side of the shift gate. When it breaks you can usually get the trans into either 1 & 2 or 3 & 4, but not into 5 or R. The bushing isnt too hard to replace, but its inside the console, below the shift lever. Your symptoms dont sound like this is your problem. Also the shift cables themselves can get loose where their outer sheath is clamped onto the back side of the transmission. The clips can break from rusting away. Again, this doesnt sound like your problem, since you are able to get the trans into 1st and into reverse - which would involve both shift cables still working okay.
If the problem is with the clutch hydraulics, its fixable without pulling the transmission out. (It comes out together with the engine by the way). The broken shifter bushing is not hard to fix. If its a problem is inside the bell housing - the trans has to come out. And that a big job.
If you got it fixed, it might give you years of reliable transportation. I did this myself, and really enjoy driving a car that I put back on the road.
Good Luck in any case.
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