abs light on no communication
big white bufflo
09-14-2011, 08:00 PM
my wifes 2003 winne abs light came on i looked at all sensors had shop look at it they ran a scan on it came back no communication they looked for blown fuses any ideas will be good :headshake
phil-l
09-14-2011, 10:29 PM
In addition to checking each sensor and cleaning its connector, did you check and clean the connector that goes to the ABS module? It's probably a long shot, but it's worth checking. See my pictures of checking and cleaning all of my ABS sensor and module connectors; the last 8 pictures in the album are specific to the module connector:
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/559769331GYPtlJ
In my case, I ultimately decided that the electronic module was bad. I replaced it myself - WITHOUT replacing the hydraulic portion of the ABS system (which means no brake bleeding!). This isn't a casual DIY job - but it can be done. See pictures here:
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/575113025YrtncQ
I've included notes with each picture to help you understand what you're seeing.
It's been almost 4 years since I replace the module. ABS has worked fine!
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/559769331GYPtlJ
In my case, I ultimately decided that the electronic module was bad. I replaced it myself - WITHOUT replacing the hydraulic portion of the ABS system (which means no brake bleeding!). This isn't a casual DIY job - but it can be done. See pictures here:
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/575113025YrtncQ
I've included notes with each picture to help you understand what you're seeing.
It's been almost 4 years since I replace the module. ABS has worked fine!
DontCome2MyHouse
11-14-2011, 08:58 PM
In addition to checking each sensor and cleaning its connector, did you check and clean the connector that goes to the ABS module? It's probably a long shot, but it's worth checking. See my pictures of checking and cleaning all of my ABS sensor and module connectors; the last 8 pictures in the album are specific to the module connector:
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/559769331GYPtlJ
In my case, I ultimately decided that the electronic module was bad. I replaced it myself - WITHOUT replacing the hydraulic portion of the ABS system (which means no brake bleeding!). This isn't a casual DIY job - but it can be done. See pictures here:
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/575113025YrtncQ
I've included notes with each picture to help you understand what you're seeing.
It's been almost 4 years since I replace the module. ABS has worked fine!
I'm getting ready to replace the ABS ECM in my 2003. I saw a rebuild service on eBay for $50. What size Torx bit did you use? Your pictures are great!
Is it possible to drive the Windstar without the ABS ECM installed (in case I need to move the van around on the driveway)?
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/559769331GYPtlJ
In my case, I ultimately decided that the electronic module was bad. I replaced it myself - WITHOUT replacing the hydraulic portion of the ABS system (which means no brake bleeding!). This isn't a casual DIY job - but it can be done. See pictures here:
http://good-times.webshots.com/album/575113025YrtncQ
I've included notes with each picture to help you understand what you're seeing.
It's been almost 4 years since I replace the module. ABS has worked fine!
I'm getting ready to replace the ABS ECM in my 2003. I saw a rebuild service on eBay for $50. What size Torx bit did you use? Your pictures are great!
Is it possible to drive the Windstar without the ABS ECM installed (in case I need to move the van around on the driveway)?
phil-l
11-14-2011, 09:38 PM
DontCome2MyHouse -
The electronic portion of the ABS module is attached to the hydraulic portion with T-20 Torx fasteners.
WARNING: The Torx fasteners are steel - and the hydraulic unit is aluminum, so electrolysis is practically guaranteed. It's highly likely corrosion will make the fasteners difficult to remove - but it can be done. If you break a head off of a fastener (yeah, it happened to me) don't give up hope. I was able to slide the electronic module off over what remained of the bolt - and then remove it using vice-grip style locking pliers. When reassembling, use anti-seize compound to help prevent fastener corrosion.
Yes, you can drive the van without the ABS electronics in place as long as the hydraulics aren't disturbed - you just won't have ABS (but you're probably used to driving the van without ABS anyway). If - for some reason - you end up driving on the road, I'd wrap the ABS wiring harness connector in plastic to protect the now-exposed pins from dirt and damage.
Please share what you learn when you replace your module! In particular, I'm curious if you can see evidence of how and where they open the module to repair it.
The electronic portion of the ABS module is attached to the hydraulic portion with T-20 Torx fasteners.
WARNING: The Torx fasteners are steel - and the hydraulic unit is aluminum, so electrolysis is practically guaranteed. It's highly likely corrosion will make the fasteners difficult to remove - but it can be done. If you break a head off of a fastener (yeah, it happened to me) don't give up hope. I was able to slide the electronic module off over what remained of the bolt - and then remove it using vice-grip style locking pliers. When reassembling, use anti-seize compound to help prevent fastener corrosion.
Yes, you can drive the van without the ABS electronics in place as long as the hydraulics aren't disturbed - you just won't have ABS (but you're probably used to driving the van without ABS anyway). If - for some reason - you end up driving on the road, I'd wrap the ABS wiring harness connector in plastic to protect the now-exposed pins from dirt and damage.
Please share what you learn when you replace your module! In particular, I'm curious if you can see evidence of how and where they open the module to repair it.
DontCome2MyHouse
11-14-2011, 10:18 PM
DontCome2MyHouse -
The electronic portion of the ABS module is attached to the hydraulic portion with T-20 Torx fasteners.
WARNING: The Torx fasteners are steel - and the hydraulic unit is aluminum, so electrolysis is practically guaranteed. It's highly likely corrosion will make the fasteners difficult to remove - but it can be done. If you break a head off of a fastener (yeah, it happened to me) don't give up hope. I was able to slide the electronic module off over what remained of the bolt - and then remove it using vice-grip style locking pliers. When reassembling, use anti-seize compound to help prevent fastener corrosion.
Yes, you can drive the van without the ABS electronics in place as long as the hydraulics aren't disturbed - you just won't have ABS (but you're probably used to driving the van without ABS anyway). If - for some reason - you end up driving on the road, I'd wrap the ABS wiring harness connector in plastic to protect the now-exposed pins from dirt and damage.
Please share what you learn when you replace your module! In particular, I'm curious if you can see evidence of how and where they open the module to repair it.
After further reading...do you think I should pay the $70 and get the ABS codes read by Ford in case it's a bad wheel speed sensor or just go buy the ABS ECM?
Is there a way I could tell if I have a bad wheel speed sensor on my own? I thought I read somewhere the sensor should have a certain voltage (not sure of the number) which would tell you if it's bad.
The electronic portion of the ABS module is attached to the hydraulic portion with T-20 Torx fasteners.
WARNING: The Torx fasteners are steel - and the hydraulic unit is aluminum, so electrolysis is practically guaranteed. It's highly likely corrosion will make the fasteners difficult to remove - but it can be done. If you break a head off of a fastener (yeah, it happened to me) don't give up hope. I was able to slide the electronic module off over what remained of the bolt - and then remove it using vice-grip style locking pliers. When reassembling, use anti-seize compound to help prevent fastener corrosion.
Yes, you can drive the van without the ABS electronics in place as long as the hydraulics aren't disturbed - you just won't have ABS (but you're probably used to driving the van without ABS anyway). If - for some reason - you end up driving on the road, I'd wrap the ABS wiring harness connector in plastic to protect the now-exposed pins from dirt and damage.
Please share what you learn when you replace your module! In particular, I'm curious if you can see evidence of how and where they open the module to repair it.
After further reading...do you think I should pay the $70 and get the ABS codes read by Ford in case it's a bad wheel speed sensor or just go buy the ABS ECM?
Is there a way I could tell if I have a bad wheel speed sensor on my own? I thought I read somewhere the sensor should have a certain voltage (not sure of the number) which would tell you if it's bad.
phil-l
11-14-2011, 10:30 PM
Well... I must admit that I didn't bother to get mine scanned. The research I did at the time suggested that scanning in my situation simply reported a bunch of errors that meant my module had failed - just like most of them do. My failure symptoms so closely matched others in my reading that I eventually presumed the module was bad and worked forward from there.
I did spend a fair amount of time cleaning and checking the wheel sensors - but didn't find a reliable way to electrically verify that the sensor's signal is correct. It's likely a digital signal (a stream of pulses from the sensor as the wheel turns), so it's a job for an oscilloscope or other test equipment; a voltmeter probably won't tell you much.
So... I'm not sure I can give you a strong suggestion either way. One frustration: Engine error codes are readily scanned with now widely-available OBDII scanners. ABS codes are read from the same OBDII port - but scanners that also report ABS codes are far more expensive. C'mon - it's just another digital interface and shouldn't be a big - or pricey - deal anymore.
I did spend a fair amount of time cleaning and checking the wheel sensors - but didn't find a reliable way to electrically verify that the sensor's signal is correct. It's likely a digital signal (a stream of pulses from the sensor as the wheel turns), so it's a job for an oscilloscope or other test equipment; a voltmeter probably won't tell you much.
So... I'm not sure I can give you a strong suggestion either way. One frustration: Engine error codes are readily scanned with now widely-available OBDII scanners. ABS codes are read from the same OBDII port - but scanners that also report ABS codes are far more expensive. C'mon - it's just another digital interface and shouldn't be a big - or pricey - deal anymore.
DontCome2MyHouse
11-15-2011, 11:01 AM
The rebuilt ABS ECM does not come with new Torx fasteners. What should I do if I break one off? Can they be easily found/replaced?
Will WD40 help remove the old ones?
Will WD40 help remove the old ones?
phil-l
11-15-2011, 01:39 PM
A junkyard would be a good bet. Hmmm.... I'm pretty sure I have one or two spare fasteners from my ABS project (if you read the details in my pictures, you'll see I also bought a used module on eBay; it didn't work, but what I learned from it gave me the confidence to buy a new module. The fixup service didn't exist back then). If you need them, send me a Private Message through the forum and I'll send them to you!
If you can spray something in there that can reach where the fastener enters the module, it might help. WD-40 is a marginal penetrating oil; I've had good experiences with PB Blaster, which is widely available at mass-market auto part retailers.
If you can spray something in there that can reach where the fastener enters the module, it might help. WD-40 is a marginal penetrating oil; I've had good experiences with PB Blaster, which is widely available at mass-market auto part retailers.
DontCome2MyHouse
11-16-2011, 01:19 PM
A junkyard would be a good bet. Hmmm.... I'm pretty sure I have one or two spare fasteners from my ABS project (if you read the details in my pictures, you'll see I also bought a used module on eBay; it didn't work, but what I learned from it gave me the confidence to buy a new module. The fixup service didn't exist back then). If you need them, send me a Private Message through the forum and I'll send them to you!
If you can spray something in there that can reach where the fastener enters the module, it might help. WD-40 is a marginal penetrating oil; I've had good experiences with PB Blaster, which is widely available at mass-market auto part retailers.
Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know how it goes.
If you can spray something in there that can reach where the fastener enters the module, it might help. WD-40 is a marginal penetrating oil; I've had good experiences with PB Blaster, which is widely available at mass-market auto part retailers.
Thanks for the offer. I'll let you know how it goes.
DontCome2MyHouse
11-17-2011, 05:48 PM
Bad news.
The T20 Torx fasteners are completely corroded. I purchased some PB Blaster and sprayed all four heads of the fasteners thinking that would help...well it made it worse. The PB Blaster completely dissolved the heads of the fasteners. That stuff works too good!
I did manage to get one of the four bolts removed, but I'm still screwed. I called my local Ford dealer and explained the whole situation and the Service guy said he knows exactly what I was talking about and has encountered the same problem with the bolts. I asked him if he could remove the other three bolts and he said they could try, but more often than not the complete unit (electronic & hydrolic portions together) has to be removed and a new unit installed.:crying:
I'm not sure what to do at this point. I REALLY want ABS brakes. I'm tired of that damn ABS light too (yes, I know I could pull the 101 & 102 fuses)!
What would Ford charge me for the WHOLE unit? Should I try another mechanics shop besides Ford where they won't try to push me into buying a whole new unit and will actually try to remove the bolts?
I've seen some complete units on eBay, but they are 1998 or 2001...not 2003 like I need.
IF I did buy a whole new unit...wouldn't I just get the same problem again down the road?? It's a flaw in the design of the ABS ECM.
I'm open to any and all suggestions at this point.
The T20 Torx fasteners are completely corroded. I purchased some PB Blaster and sprayed all four heads of the fasteners thinking that would help...well it made it worse. The PB Blaster completely dissolved the heads of the fasteners. That stuff works too good!
I did manage to get one of the four bolts removed, but I'm still screwed. I called my local Ford dealer and explained the whole situation and the Service guy said he knows exactly what I was talking about and has encountered the same problem with the bolts. I asked him if he could remove the other three bolts and he said they could try, but more often than not the complete unit (electronic & hydrolic portions together) has to be removed and a new unit installed.:crying:
I'm not sure what to do at this point. I REALLY want ABS brakes. I'm tired of that damn ABS light too (yes, I know I could pull the 101 & 102 fuses)!
What would Ford charge me for the WHOLE unit? Should I try another mechanics shop besides Ford where they won't try to push me into buying a whole new unit and will actually try to remove the bolts?
I've seen some complete units on eBay, but they are 1998 or 2001...not 2003 like I need.
IF I did buy a whole new unit...wouldn't I just get the same problem again down the road?? It's a flaw in the design of the ABS ECM.
I'm open to any and all suggestions at this point.
phil-l
11-17-2011, 10:31 PM
Sorry to hear of the challenges you're facing with this project.
Well, the PB Blaster didn't dissolve anything that wasn't already in tough shape. Mine wasn't as corroded as yours appears to be.
As I understand it, Ford improved the design of the later replacement ABS modules. I expect my replacement module to last longer than the original.
I believe that - if the fasteners can be broken off enough to remove the module - the rest of the fastener could be removed from your hydraulic unit. However, as you've seen, it's pretty difficult to get decent access to the top of the unit while it's attached to the van. Of course, you could remove the whole unit - but this would involve disconnecting a number of hydraulic brake line fittings. If they're as corroded as the fasteners were, that could be a challenge itself. And then there would be the effort of re-connecting the hydraulic lines and bleeding the brake system. The job gets much larger - with more risks.
A data point: I got my ABS electronic module through Team Ford Parts http://teamfordparts.com. They list an ABS control module for a 2003 Windstar (I presume this is both the hydraulic and electronic portions) MSRP price at $1049.52, and their discounted price of $741.17, with a $200 core charge. The previous numbers are for non-traction control models. The numbers are $1327.72 and $937.63 for traction control.
So... I'm afraid I don't have an easy approach for you to follow. I'd at least check in with a well-regarded local independent repair shop to see if they're willing to try to save the hydraulic module. If nothing else, they should have experience with this sort of problem that can guide you to the best solution for your situation.
Well, the PB Blaster didn't dissolve anything that wasn't already in tough shape. Mine wasn't as corroded as yours appears to be.
As I understand it, Ford improved the design of the later replacement ABS modules. I expect my replacement module to last longer than the original.
I believe that - if the fasteners can be broken off enough to remove the module - the rest of the fastener could be removed from your hydraulic unit. However, as you've seen, it's pretty difficult to get decent access to the top of the unit while it's attached to the van. Of course, you could remove the whole unit - but this would involve disconnecting a number of hydraulic brake line fittings. If they're as corroded as the fasteners were, that could be a challenge itself. And then there would be the effort of re-connecting the hydraulic lines and bleeding the brake system. The job gets much larger - with more risks.
A data point: I got my ABS electronic module through Team Ford Parts http://teamfordparts.com. They list an ABS control module for a 2003 Windstar (I presume this is both the hydraulic and electronic portions) MSRP price at $1049.52, and their discounted price of $741.17, with a $200 core charge. The previous numbers are for non-traction control models. The numbers are $1327.72 and $937.63 for traction control.
So... I'm afraid I don't have an easy approach for you to follow. I'd at least check in with a well-regarded local independent repair shop to see if they're willing to try to save the hydraulic module. If nothing else, they should have experience with this sort of problem that can guide you to the best solution for your situation.
DontCome2MyHouse
11-18-2011, 07:07 AM
Sorry to hear of the challenges you're facing with this project.
Well, the PB Blaster didn't dissolve anything that wasn't already in tough shape. Mine wasn't as corroded as yours appears to be.
As I understand it, Ford improved the design of the later replacement ABS modules. I expect my replacement module to last longer than the original.
I believe that - if the fasteners can be broken off enough to remove the module - the rest of the fastener could be removed from your hydraulic unit. However, as you've seen, it's pretty difficult to get decent access to the top of the unit while it's attached to the van. Of course, you could remove the whole unit - but this would involve disconnecting a number of hydraulic brake line fittings. If they're as corroded as the fasteners were, that could be a challenge itself. And then there would be the effort of re-connecting the hydraulic lines and bleeding the brake system. The job gets much larger - with more risks.
A data point: I got my ABS electronic module through Team Ford Parts http://teamfordparts.com. They list an ABS control module for a 2003 Windstar (I presume this is both the hydraulic and electronic portions) MSRP price at $1049.52, and their discounted price of $741.17, with a $200 core charge. The previous numbers are for non-traction control models. The numbers are $1327.72 and $937.63 for traction control.
So... I'm afraid I don't have an easy approach for you to follow. I'd at least check in with a well-regarded local independent repair shop to see if they're willing to try to save the hydraulic module. If nothing else, they should have experience with this sort of problem that can guide you to the best solution for your situation.
Late last night I found a website that listed an ABS Control Module w/o traction control for $323.85.
Brakes--->Anti-Lock Brakes--->Control Module
https://www.bluespringsfordparts.com/ford-windstar-parts.html
First, I don't know it's the whole unit or just the electronic part that sits on top.
Secondly, I'm assuming it's new b/c it's Ford OEM and coming from a Ford dealer.
Let me know your thoughts.
Well, the PB Blaster didn't dissolve anything that wasn't already in tough shape. Mine wasn't as corroded as yours appears to be.
As I understand it, Ford improved the design of the later replacement ABS modules. I expect my replacement module to last longer than the original.
I believe that - if the fasteners can be broken off enough to remove the module - the rest of the fastener could be removed from your hydraulic unit. However, as you've seen, it's pretty difficult to get decent access to the top of the unit while it's attached to the van. Of course, you could remove the whole unit - but this would involve disconnecting a number of hydraulic brake line fittings. If they're as corroded as the fasteners were, that could be a challenge itself. And then there would be the effort of re-connecting the hydraulic lines and bleeding the brake system. The job gets much larger - with more risks.
A data point: I got my ABS electronic module through Team Ford Parts http://teamfordparts.com. They list an ABS control module for a 2003 Windstar (I presume this is both the hydraulic and electronic portions) MSRP price at $1049.52, and their discounted price of $741.17, with a $200 core charge. The previous numbers are for non-traction control models. The numbers are $1327.72 and $937.63 for traction control.
So... I'm afraid I don't have an easy approach for you to follow. I'd at least check in with a well-regarded local independent repair shop to see if they're willing to try to save the hydraulic module. If nothing else, they should have experience with this sort of problem that can guide you to the best solution for your situation.
Late last night I found a website that listed an ABS Control Module w/o traction control for $323.85.
Brakes--->Anti-Lock Brakes--->Control Module
https://www.bluespringsfordparts.com/ford-windstar-parts.html
First, I don't know it's the whole unit or just the electronic part that sits on top.
Secondly, I'm assuming it's new b/c it's Ford OEM and coming from a Ford dealer.
Let me know your thoughts.
phil-l
11-18-2011, 07:16 AM
Yes, I presume it's new. Sadly, part listings like this (it appears they're using the same basic database structure as Team Ford) don't include Ford part numbers - so it's hard to determine exactly what's included without contacting them directly. Call them and see what they say!
DontCome2MyHouse
11-18-2011, 08:08 AM
Yes, I presume it's new. Sadly, part listings like this (it appears they're using the same basic database structure as Team Ford) don't include Ford part numbers - so it's hard to determine exactly what's included without contacting them directly. Call them and see what they say!
what is the part number for the entire unit?
what is the part number for the entire unit?
phil-l
11-18-2011, 11:26 AM
I don't know - but Google should be able to confirm it. There are many idiosyncrasies to OEM part numbers...
When I bought the electronic portion of my unit, I contacted Team Ford directly to verify that I was getting what I expected, and used the part number they specified.
When I bought the electronic portion of my unit, I contacted Team Ford directly to verify that I was getting what I expected, and used the part number they specified.
DontCome2MyHouse
11-18-2011, 12:12 PM
I don't know - but Google should be able to confirm it. There are many idiosyncrasies to OEM part numbers...
When I bought the electronic portion of my unit, I contacted Team Ford directly to verify that I was getting what I expected, and used the part number they specified.
Awesome. Can you provide the part number of the electric portion so I can know what I'm getting when I call them?
I REALLY appreciate your help with all this!
When I bought the electronic portion of my unit, I contacted Team Ford directly to verify that I was getting what I expected, and used the part number they specified.
Awesome. Can you provide the part number of the electric portion so I can know what I'm getting when I call them?
I REALLY appreciate your help with all this!
phil-l
11-18-2011, 12:27 PM
I'd have to go back through some e-mail to track down the number I had then - but it was for an '00, so probably not terribly useful for you.
Plus: One of the idiosyncrasies of OEM part numbers is that they change over time. For things like ABS electronics, they'll update the software for various reasons during a production run - and modify aspects of the part number to reflect this. The details of the part number on the module I bought didn't match my original module.
ANOTHER THOUGHT...
As I thought about your situation, it occurred to me that your most critical issue is removing the module without damaging either the electronic of the hydraulic portion - even though we already know the 3 remaining Torx fasteners are badly corroded. Do you think it would be possible to get a Dremel-style tool in there with an attachment that could grind off what remains of the fastener head? This would allow you to lift off the electronic module - and hopefully get enough room to remove the fastener shaft using vice-grip-style locking pliers (after lots of PB Blaster at the *base* of the fastener). This approach has the potential to separate the two in a manner that allows them to be re-attached without dealing with hydraulic lines.
Plus: One of the idiosyncrasies of OEM part numbers is that they change over time. For things like ABS electronics, they'll update the software for various reasons during a production run - and modify aspects of the part number to reflect this. The details of the part number on the module I bought didn't match my original module.
ANOTHER THOUGHT...
As I thought about your situation, it occurred to me that your most critical issue is removing the module without damaging either the electronic of the hydraulic portion - even though we already know the 3 remaining Torx fasteners are badly corroded. Do you think it would be possible to get a Dremel-style tool in there with an attachment that could grind off what remains of the fastener head? This would allow you to lift off the electronic module - and hopefully get enough room to remove the fastener shaft using vice-grip-style locking pliers (after lots of PB Blaster at the *base* of the fastener). This approach has the potential to separate the two in a manner that allows them to be re-attached without dealing with hydraulic lines.
phil-l
11-18-2011, 12:33 PM
I just realized that the pictures from my project (linked earlier) included pictures of the box for the module - with the part number printed on it:
XF2Z-2C219-AB
Again: This was the part number for the module I replaced on my '00 Windstar LX, back in late 2007.
However, quick Googling turned up this page: http://www.fordwindstarrecall.info/
Near the bottom of the page, they have a list of module part numbers. The site claims:
NO TRACTION CONTROL
1999/2000 : XF2Z-2C219-AB - ECM Control Module
2001/2003 : 2F2Z-2C219-BA - ECM Control Module
TRACTION CONTROL
1999/2000 : XF2Z-2C219-BA - ECM Control Module w/Traction Control
2001/2005 : 2F2Z-2C219-CA - ECM Control Module w/Traction Control
The above-linked site includes more information about the ABS failure - included some detailed pics of the internals.
I used the above part number to search at the Blue Springs site you listed earlier (Interesting trick: These Ford parts sites will let you *search* on a specific Ford OEM part number, but won't *list* the part number if you find something through their menus. Annoying.) However, that approach came up with a higher price than your link led me to. On details at this level, it's probably best to contact them directly. In my dealings with Team Ford Parts, they were very responsive to e-mail questions - and had the information I needed. Try Blue Springs and see what they tell you!
XF2Z-2C219-AB
Again: This was the part number for the module I replaced on my '00 Windstar LX, back in late 2007.
However, quick Googling turned up this page: http://www.fordwindstarrecall.info/
Near the bottom of the page, they have a list of module part numbers. The site claims:
NO TRACTION CONTROL
1999/2000 : XF2Z-2C219-AB - ECM Control Module
2001/2003 : 2F2Z-2C219-BA - ECM Control Module
TRACTION CONTROL
1999/2000 : XF2Z-2C219-BA - ECM Control Module w/Traction Control
2001/2005 : 2F2Z-2C219-CA - ECM Control Module w/Traction Control
The above-linked site includes more information about the ABS failure - included some detailed pics of the internals.
I used the above part number to search at the Blue Springs site you listed earlier (Interesting trick: These Ford parts sites will let you *search* on a specific Ford OEM part number, but won't *list* the part number if you find something through their menus. Annoying.) However, that approach came up with a higher price than your link led me to. On details at this level, it's probably best to contact them directly. In my dealings with Team Ford Parts, they were very responsive to e-mail questions - and had the information I needed. Try Blue Springs and see what they tell you!
DontCome2MyHouse
11-18-2011, 01:10 PM
I'd have to go back through some e-mail to track down the number I had then - but it was for an '00, so probably not terribly useful for you.
Plus: One of the idiosyncrasies of OEM part numbers is that they change over time. For things like ABS electronics, they'll update the software for various reasons during a production run - and modify aspects of the part number to reflect this. The details of the part number on the module I bought didn't match my original module.
ANOTHER THOUGHT...
As I thought about your situation, it occurred to me that your most critical issue is removing the module without damaging either the electronic of the hydraulic portion - even though we already know the 3 remaining Torx fasteners are badly corroded. Do you think it would be possible to get a Dremel-style tool in there with an attachment that could grind off what remains of the fastener head? This would allow you to lift off the electronic module - and hopefully get enough room to remove the fastener shaft using vice-grip-style locking pliers (after lots of PB Blaster at the *base* of the fastener). This approach has the potential to separate the two in a manner that allows them to be re-attached without dealing with hydraulic lines.
There would be no way to Dremel those off without removing the entire unit. Too tight.
Plus: One of the idiosyncrasies of OEM part numbers is that they change over time. For things like ABS electronics, they'll update the software for various reasons during a production run - and modify aspects of the part number to reflect this. The details of the part number on the module I bought didn't match my original module.
ANOTHER THOUGHT...
As I thought about your situation, it occurred to me that your most critical issue is removing the module without damaging either the electronic of the hydraulic portion - even though we already know the 3 remaining Torx fasteners are badly corroded. Do you think it would be possible to get a Dremel-style tool in there with an attachment that could grind off what remains of the fastener head? This would allow you to lift off the electronic module - and hopefully get enough room to remove the fastener shaft using vice-grip-style locking pliers (after lots of PB Blaster at the *base* of the fastener). This approach has the potential to separate the two in a manner that allows them to be re-attached without dealing with hydraulic lines.
There would be no way to Dremel those off without removing the entire unit. Too tight.
DontCome2MyHouse
11-18-2011, 04:05 PM
I just realized that the pictures from my project (linked earlier) included pictures of the box for the module - with the part number printed on it:
XF2Z-2C219-AB
Again: This was the part number for the module I replaced on my '00 Windstar LX, back in late 2007.
However, quick Googling turned up this page: http://www.fordwindstarrecall.info/
Near the bottom of the page, they have a list of module part numbers. The site claims:
NO TRACTION CONTROL
1999/2000 : XF2Z-2C219-AB - ECM Control Module
2001/2003 : 2F2Z-2C219-BA - ECM Control Module
TRACTION CONTROL
1999/2000 : XF2Z-2C219-BA - ECM Control Module w/Traction Control
2001/2005 : 2F2Z-2C219-CA - ECM Control Module w/Traction Control
The above-linked site includes more information about the ABS failure - included some detailed pics of the internals.
I used the above part number to search at the Blue Springs site you listed earlier (Interesting trick: These Ford parts sites will let you *search* on a specific Ford OEM part number, but won't *list* the part number if you find something through their menus. Annoying.) However, that approach came up with a higher price than your link led me to. On details at this level, it's probably best to contact them directly. In my dealings with Team Ford Parts, they were very responsive to e-mail questions - and had the information I needed. Try Blue Springs and see what they tell you!
I can't find the whole unit on the website teamfordparts.com. I did a search in the search box and I only found the ABS ECM (upper portion) for $312.43. Where did you find the whole unit for $741.17, with a $200 core charge?
I called Blue Springs Ford and gave them part # 2F2Z-2C219-BA. They said this is ONLY the electronic portion and NOT the whole unit. The upper and lower portions both have their own part numbers. The lower hydraulic portion was an additional $500+. So replacing the whole damn thing would be pushing close to $1K.:swear:
So...it looks like I will pay someone to remove the whole old unit, take off the upper electrical part (3 bolts drilled out), buy a rebuilt unit for $50 and have it installed on the original lower hydraulic portion (I may actually need your 2 bolts unless I can find new ones locally which would still leave me short 1 bolt). What a project!
Now the only decision I need to make is whether I shoud take it to Ford where they know EXACTLY what to do, but might give up removing the old bolts and tell me to buy THEIR whole unit or else...
OR
Take it to someone else where I have to explain in detail what to do, but might not give up so easily if they want to get paid.
XF2Z-2C219-AB
Again: This was the part number for the module I replaced on my '00 Windstar LX, back in late 2007.
However, quick Googling turned up this page: http://www.fordwindstarrecall.info/
Near the bottom of the page, they have a list of module part numbers. The site claims:
NO TRACTION CONTROL
1999/2000 : XF2Z-2C219-AB - ECM Control Module
2001/2003 : 2F2Z-2C219-BA - ECM Control Module
TRACTION CONTROL
1999/2000 : XF2Z-2C219-BA - ECM Control Module w/Traction Control
2001/2005 : 2F2Z-2C219-CA - ECM Control Module w/Traction Control
The above-linked site includes more information about the ABS failure - included some detailed pics of the internals.
I used the above part number to search at the Blue Springs site you listed earlier (Interesting trick: These Ford parts sites will let you *search* on a specific Ford OEM part number, but won't *list* the part number if you find something through their menus. Annoying.) However, that approach came up with a higher price than your link led me to. On details at this level, it's probably best to contact them directly. In my dealings with Team Ford Parts, they were very responsive to e-mail questions - and had the information I needed. Try Blue Springs and see what they tell you!
I can't find the whole unit on the website teamfordparts.com. I did a search in the search box and I only found the ABS ECM (upper portion) for $312.43. Where did you find the whole unit for $741.17, with a $200 core charge?
I called Blue Springs Ford and gave them part # 2F2Z-2C219-BA. They said this is ONLY the electronic portion and NOT the whole unit. The upper and lower portions both have their own part numbers. The lower hydraulic portion was an additional $500+. So replacing the whole damn thing would be pushing close to $1K.:swear:
So...it looks like I will pay someone to remove the whole old unit, take off the upper electrical part (3 bolts drilled out), buy a rebuilt unit for $50 and have it installed on the original lower hydraulic portion (I may actually need your 2 bolts unless I can find new ones locally which would still leave me short 1 bolt). What a project!
Now the only decision I need to make is whether I shoud take it to Ford where they know EXACTLY what to do, but might give up removing the old bolts and tell me to buy THEIR whole unit or else...
OR
Take it to someone else where I have to explain in detail what to do, but might not give up so easily if they want to get paid.
DontCome2MyHouse
12-01-2011, 12:55 PM
For some odd reason the ABS and brake light issue have completely disappeared this past week. It may have something to do with me checking the connection to the ABS ECM when attempting to remove the torx screws. Loose connection perhaps?
For the first time no warning lights!
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-l1UeqqyJJW8/Tte-uAdoZ4I/AAAAAAAABYE/2tKAXQp7Bsk/s640/IMAG0824.jpg
For the first time no warning lights!
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-l1UeqqyJJW8/Tte-uAdoZ4I/AAAAAAAABYE/2tKAXQp7Bsk/s640/IMAG0824.jpg
phil-l
12-01-2011, 01:47 PM
Well, I recommend cleaning and checking all ABS connections before moving on to other areas of suspicion. Maybe that did it for you!
However, while working on this project, I went through several short periods of correct ABS operation - before the light came on again. Only replacing my module got rid of it for good.
However, while working on this project, I went through several short periods of correct ABS operation - before the light came on again. Only replacing my module got rid of it for good.
mark_gober
12-01-2011, 08:58 PM
I've had a very similar issue recently. I took the large connector off of the ABS module and I could immediate get codes. I reconnected it and it worked fine for several months. It did come back one more time, but I pulled the connector off and put it right back on and was once again able to pull codes. That was a year ago or so and I can still pull codes now.
I realize that that has a certain "shadetree" feel to it, but when faced with the cost of an ABS module, I'm ok hanging out in the shade. :)
Mark
p.s. BTW, the connector is a bit tricky. It unscrews and the connector itself slides laterally to disengage. I've never seen a connector quite like it, but just examine it and you'll figure it out.
I realize that that has a certain "shadetree" feel to it, but when faced with the cost of an ABS module, I'm ok hanging out in the shade. :)
Mark
p.s. BTW, the connector is a bit tricky. It unscrews and the connector itself slides laterally to disengage. I've never seen a connector quite like it, but just examine it and you'll figure it out.
LTDzak
12-31-2011, 07:23 AM
The cold weather will increase the length of time before the module overheats, but does not solve the problem.
I just r&r'ed the ABS electronic module on my 99 Windstar yesterday, and will post more details soon to go with Phil's pictures. There are a couple tricks I used to make the job easier.
I just r&r'ed the ABS electronic module on my 99 Windstar yesterday, and will post more details soon to go with Phil's pictures. There are a couple tricks I used to make the job easier.
big white bufflo
12-31-2011, 09:31 AM
I have done nothing with my wifes abs but i am reading all these post and my question is are these abs moduel year spacific or can certain years cross i have a pick and pull close to my house and thinking if i have to get a unit go there it seem like 1000$ is alot to pay
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