2000 Ford Windstar rides poorly

I've got a 2000 Ford Windstar with 230,000 miles. I've replaced the engine and installed a rebuilt transmission at 159K miles. A lot of new parts were replaced during the engine install since everything was out. I've also replaced both tie rod ends, the A-Arm with new ball joints and bushings and new struts too.

Anyhow, the ride is still what I consider aweful. I'm considering replacing the struts again but this time doing the whole strut-spring assembly together as a kit. At the same time I plan to replace the hub assembly. I also plan to do the rear springs, spring seat isolator bushings, and the rear shocks.

I can't figure out if I'd see any benefit from replacing the engine cradle to frame bushings but I'm considering them too.

Can anyone think of anything else I'm missing. I've invested a lot of time and energy into this van and would drive it anywhere. I'd just like the ride to be a bit more comfortable.

Oh, and I had the rear axle recall service done and subframe inspection was OK.

Thanks All

it seems like you've done an awful lot without solving your problem, or really even diagnosing it. Before throwing a lot more at it, I'd consider going to a reputable shop and tell them that you want an inspection of the suspension. If you agree to pay whatever their shop rate is for say an hour you may get a much more educated point of view. Finding a good shop is the main thing. I'd ask around and see with word of mouth says and maybe tackle it that way. At least then you can do the work, maybe go back to the same place for an alignment as an example, saving on the install work price etc.

p

Have you noticed any unusual noises? The strut mounts might be shot. You say you are considering the quick strut replacement might be a good idea but, since you have put so much money already on it I think the last thing you want is to find out it doesn't helps... I would inspect both strut mounts.

The above tip given by northern piper would be the best way to go rather than just throwing parts at it.

Good luck!

Oscar.

Did you replace the anti-sway bar bushings and end links? I know these parts are prone to wear out and make your ride uncomfortable.

it seems like you've done an awful lot without solving your problem, or really even diagnosing it. Before throwing a lot more at it, I'd consider going to a reputable shop and tell them that you want an inspection of the suspension. If you agree to pay whatever their shop rate is for say an hour you may get a much more educated point of view. Finding a good shop is the main thing. I'd ask around and see with word of mouth says and maybe tackle it that way. At least then you can do the work, maybe go back to the same place for an alignment as an example, saving on the install work price etc.

p

Northern piper, Everything I replaced, needed it. It wasn't all done at the same time but over the course of 230K miles, things are going to need replacing. I've taken it to best guy around, (front end guy) not that there's a lot to choose from, (live in WV) and he thinks I'm heading in the right direction but doesn't really commit to any extra advice.

Did you replace the anti-sway bar bushings and end links? I know these parts are prone to wear out and make your ride uncomfortable.

Yes, I replaced them when I did the motor swap. They weren't really worn out and it didn't really change anything but I didn't want to have to do it later from under the van.

Have you noticed any unusual noises? The strut mounts might be shot. You say you are considering the quick strut replacement might be a good idea but, since you have put so much money already on it I think the last thing you want is to find out it doesn't helps... I would inspect both strut mounts.

The above tip given by northern piper would be the best way to go rather than just throwing parts at it.

Good luck!

Oscar.

I did have unusual clunks until I replaced the ball joints with the A-arm replacement. This has been the most recent repair. The ball joints and bushings were worn out. I thought this would really improve my ride and handling but it didn't. It did correct the noise and improve tire wear but they are still wearing faster than they should.

I should probably clarify a few things. The van hasn't always ridden rough and when I replaced a lot of those parts I listed, it was to fix things I knew needed fixing such as the tie rod ends. After about 100K on the current replacement rod ends, they probably will need replacing to once I get into it.

How do I inspect the strut mounts? What kind of wear or defect am I looking for?

Thanks for the help!

Something else I should add is this van has spent 180K miles of it's mileage on WV roads. It's hard on suspensions so it's not all that uncommon to have a car riding rough after 80K-140K miles. I'm actually pretty pleased that my van is doing as well as it is. It's my wife's daily driver and she's not one to miss an opportunity to hit a pothole:wink:.

I understand what you're saying. For the record, I've gone thru almost an identical experience with my 2000 and by choice replaced the entire front suspension, along with rear shocks. I had had some minor road vibration as well and opted to replace worn summer tires having the new ones balanced carefully etc. Anyway, I did all this work myself, having my trusted shop do the final alignment once I'd got things as close as I could. The reason I got them involved before doing the work was for a professional opinion regarding what was necessary and where the problems were likely coming from (the road noise vibration) I'd felt the vibration on the front R and was stuck on trying to find the problem there, which I couldn't. The shop identified a slightly bad L rear tire/balance issue. His description was that the van was sort of swimming down the road at certain speeds, harmonic with the vibration of the tire, and noticeable at the front. Now I doubt he'd have really shared that info or looked so hard had I not told him that I wanted to pay him for an hour of diagnosis, then I'd do the work, then I'd be back for the final alignment. This agreement, up front, worked great and I saved a ton of $$ and solved my vibration problem. The key I felt was finding a shop that was interested in dealing with me in this fashion.

good luck!

P

How do I inspect the strut mounts? What kind of wear or defect am I looking for?


The first thing would be a visual inspection with them mounted, if the rubber looks quite rotted on the top, it's likely they are shot specially if you haven't replaced them with that high mileage, most of the times they last from 70k-100k miles.

Second would be to remove them with the entire strut/spring assembly and take a look at the top where the strut's shaft meets the mount, that's where the rubber usually cracks and this is the source of clunking noises when driving down the road. When you remove them make sure you mark the position of the nuts and strut in order to try and preserve the alignment as much as possible.

Regards,

Oscar.

mtsav8or,

See my post below on the rear coil springs. I have a pair of Moog CC875 variable rate springs that I'm looking to get rid of. I too replaced the front suspension of my van using all Moog parts and had great results. I also have insultors for the rear springs that I can sell you. Go with the variable rate springs. They will give you a better ride!

AJ

Oscar,

Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I needed. The looked OK when I replaced the struts the last time, no rot or cracking. They looked fine last summer when I did the A-Arms. I'm just figuring they're hard and fully oxidized now and the rubber just doesn't have insulating cushion it used to.

AJ, How long were the Moogs in use and how much do you want? Feel free to PM me. I did a search for your posts on rear springs but I didn't see any where you talked about the moogs. Did they make that big a difference over the stock ones? Did you do variable rate springs up front too? There's a guy on ebay that has some front kits that he bought for his van but never installed that are a "good deal" but he hasn't gotten back to me which struts are with them. As we all know, a good deal, may not be so good if they're econo parts and only barely do what they're supposed to and only last 6 months.

Thanks again to everyone who's responded back. I'm really appreciating all the advice!

Matt

Rear shocks are easy to replace.......I put Monroe Sena Tracs on all around.
I had a shop install the Monroe "Quick Strut" that included the springs, mounts...etc.
In my case.....the original struts still seemed fine at 183K miles, but I had a broken spring.....broken all the way at the top.
I was outside the 10 year unlimited mileage program that FORD had for my '96 windstar, so I figured....rather than having them put new springs onto my old struts......to replace the whole assembly.
It is pretty hard to replace the struts and keep the OEM sway bar links........
Whenever a suspension part was replaced, I had the shop use MOOG and install the grease fitting.

You shop most likely checked the front sway bar and bushings.
I did not experience it myself, but I have read some posts where folks mentioned having the front sway bar break on their Windstar.......so it is worth checking.
Also....there are 2 different sizes of sway bars....at least on the older ones.
If replacing the sway bar bushings.....make SURE to get the correct size.
Ordering them through FORD and using your Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) would be the best way to be certain to get the correct size.
The sway bar bushings have been noted as failing a lot in posts by other members as well, although mine still looked fine at 229K miles on my '96.

Another thing to check out......I had issues with my front disk brake calipers sticking intermittently.
The way to know if this is happening is to check your brake pads.......are they wearing evenly?
At this mileage......you might consider replacing the brake caliper assemblies on your next brake job (if not already done).
The same can happen with rear brakes as well (even drum brakes, like I had can stick and cause problems).

I also had issues with the flexible hose that connects between the brake caliper and the hard brake line for my front brakes......
It was a CHEAP and EASY repair......I ordered a pair of the hoses (they are different between left and right side) through ROCKAUTO and they made a MAJOR improvement in the braking performance.
I have pictures in the pictures that the link in my signature takes you to....that show the brake hose replacement....as well as pad/rotor replacement up front and the shoe / wheel cylinder replacement for the rear brakes.

Thanks Wiswind,

I'll check the sway bar and bushings again although I think mine are still OK. I think the replacement ones I got were the right size as they went on as hard, (had to grease em) as the old ones came off (still in good shape).

The front calipers seem OK (thank God!) although I've been through 2 sets of rotors already. I forgot I had to replace the rear brake cylinders a while back but they're OK now too and drums seemed fine too.

I've received enough feedback that I feel comfortable replacing the parts I planned to and may do a few other things while I'm in there. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Thanks all! Matt

mtsav8or,

I sent you a PM.

AvalonJohn

I can't figure out if I'd see any benefit from replacing the engine cradle to frame bushings but I'm considering them too.

I read that those are often overlooked when troubleshooting a harsh ride and yet they -along with the other front-end rubber bushings- may account for the major part of the problem.

Apparently shocks (and struts), as the name imply, damper slower large-amplitude shock waves generated by road bumps and thus prevent shock damage to the vehicle, but do little to diminish the faster low-amplitude vibrations that cause most of the harshness and cabin noise that is often associated with the "old car ride",

Urethane insulators (bushings) flatten, harden and eventually disintegrate with time, in order to restore a vehicule's original ride those parts must be replaced after 8 to 10 years, including engine and transmission mounts. Supposedly doing this will have a more dramatic effect on ride quality than replacing struts/shocks when those are not really terminally shot.

Unfortunately although the cost for those parts is low, replacing some of them doesn't appear to be an easy job and likely involves lifts, cradles and hydraulic jacks. I heard that some people simply inject urethane where the frame and sub-frame are joined but that sounds a little botchy to me.