2000 Windstar needs some help

I have a 2000 Windstar (105,000 miles) which I bought brand new...It is have been a love/hate relationship over the years whereby I have been bothered by many, many annoyances but in the end I really like the van and my family grew up in this thing and I am attached!

Admittedly, I am not the best mechanic and my maintenance on the vehicle has been average. I have done the upper intake gasket replacements several years back and in the last year for variouis reasons the van has gotten a new coil pack, wires and plugs.

I have 2 big problems and one smaller problem - engine misfires, unexplainable random oil loss and a IMRC problem. I do have a few codes - P0171, 1518 and 0303.

The easiest problem for me is the IMRC. Prior to getting the code, I had been reading here and I checked how my clips/rails were doing. The rails were both off and the front rail was missing. I went to the dealer and was able to buy clips for $6 each and they were nice enough to give me a used rail for the front side (bank 2 I believe). After installing the rails and clips, the code appeared. Upon inspection, it seems that the bank 1 rail is not moving freely as it will not move completely go the stop on the motor. So, I will take the intake apart this weekend and look to see how to clean the associated ports or butterflies, etc. I am really not sure what I may need to clean in there but I have read a ton here and I am sure I will see clearly how the IMRC works once the upper intake is off.

For the misfire and oil loss, I have more serious problems possibly. I took the car to a local mechanic for inspection. I was referred, but it was my first experience with the guy. He seemed ok but I am unsure. My check engine light is always on for one reason or another and we had experienced a seemingly quick oil loss. I needed to add 3+quarts! Our state requires emissions testing and the CEL must be off to pass the test. Anyway, the mechanic tells me the motor is done. Cylinder #3 and cylinder #5 failed a compression test and the plugs looked terrible. He said he got it to pass the emission test but the van would only last a month or 2. Well, after about a month, sure enough, the van started to run rough and the #3 and 5 plugs were wet with oil and looked terrible. On advice, I installed a bushing/extender in front of a new plug for each and have been watching the oil closely. I still have the #3 misfire code. Not so much the #5. The oil loss has not been a problem for several weeks.

Again, I am not a mechanic, but I have a little skill and I read like crazy here and elsewhere. I am unsure what potential problems could beand if I can fix them. I am anxious to give it a try and really need some suggestions. I would like to remove the cowl, upper intake and fix the IMRC and the address any ideas anyone would have for investigating the oil loss and misfires. Wiswind - your comments and pictures have been a great resource to me. I have read many great posts here from so many people. Thanks in advance for offering me some help! Would I learn anything by pulling the valve covers? I have not read where others have had problems with rings, etc. so I am hopeful that this is something I can troubleshoot for the top and repair. Perhaps a cracked spring? Current symptoms are rough idle but other than that it actually sounds and is running pretty well. No noises, knocks, stalling or hesitation; just the rough idle and codes. Thanks for reading my lenghty post!

Hocky,

Well, consider yourself in good company. My 2000 Windstar has the same "severe" oil loss. My twin brother has a 2003 that also had the same problem. His was doing it first and mine wasn't. Then, all the sudden, mine started doing it too.

I replaced all 6 spark plugs and the intake port seals and replaced the intake bolts. I didn't realize it, but my Windstar had already been fixed and the correct valve cover and intake bolts were already there. Since I had it off, I replaced them anyway. 5 of the 6 spark plugs were almost completely bridged by carbon buildup. I don't remember any of them being "wet" per se, but perhaps maybe one of them was. Prior to spark plug replacement, I was also experiencing misfires and poor engine performance.

After I replaced the plugs, and put it back together, the engine cleared the misfire codes and ran fine for about a month. It started misfiring again and I pulled the plugs again. This time, only one of the plugs was showing any noticeable bridging. I replaced the PCV valve hoping that it was defective and sucking too much oil into the engine.

Since replacing the PCV valve, I'm still burning oil. Now I'm more aware of it and check it weekly. I've recently started logging mileage vs. oil replacement to see how quickly I'm burning the oil. Rough estimate now is around a quart every 300-400 miles. I was in there the other day and noticed that the PCV valve fit very loosely into the rubber grommet on the valve cover. I took some electrical tape and wrapped it around the base of the PCV valve in order to fill up some of the gap. I refilled the oil to the top mark and I'm going to check it this weekend to gauge if it slowed the oil loss at all. This course of action depends on the rate that oil would be lost due to vaporization. Obviously, I'm not a scientist and don't really know to what degree oil would be lost due to vaporization, but it was loose (probably about a 1/4" of open air between the PCV valve and the rubber grommet if you moved it to one side. The top of the valve cover did have some black flaky residue next to it so hopefully that was it.

My next course of action will be to replace the valve stem seals. This is where I suspect my problem is. The valve stem seal is a rubber seal that fit around the valve stem (inside the valve spring) and its designed to keep oil from going down the valve stem and into the cylinder. This is an obvious source of oil leakage, but more difficult to fix than filling the gap on the PCV valve.

The valve stem seals aren't all THAT difficult to replace. It'll take probably 3 hours for all of the valves. You just have to be careful not to drop any of the valve stem keepers into the head or to allow the valve to drop into the cylinder. Short of that, it's pretty straight forward and the cost is pretty cheap. I think I saw I could get an entire stem seal set for around $40.

I wouldn't give up on your Windstar yet. Like you, I'm attached to mine and it has the unfortunate experience of having an owner who doesn't give up on problematic cars. It's now a challenge for me to fix it. I'd keep putting oil in it and I'll get back to you on my discoveries with my car. I'll know in relatively short order whether or not the PCV valve fixed it. If not, I'm purchasing the valve stem seals and will try to install those within the next two weeks.

With your IMRC, it should be relatively easy to free up. The butterfly plates simply rotate with the lever. You can remove the intake manifold and see them in action if you manually rotate the IMRC levers. I suspect they are just gummed up. BTW, while you're in there, check your EGR ports and clean them up. They're probably gunked up. I'd use some B-12 and a stiff bristled brush with a dental pick to get most of the gunk outta there. The fact that you're getting a code, might indicate that the actual IMRC is bad. I'm not sure that the IMRC has a circuit to tell it that the IMRC wasn't able to actually open all the way (due to gunk), but that's just a guess on my part.

Keep me posted on your progress and I'll do the same. I can only find a very few people who've complained about this problem, but both my brother and I have it. It's not nearly as common as the 0171/0174 issue and therefore I don't think it's get as much forum coverage.

Mark

Your 2000 3.8L winstar should have a alluminum colored front valve cover (unless you replaced it and painted the replacement).
The improved valve cover from FORD was not painted.
This is the version with the improved baffel for the PCV valve.
You should be able to buy a new grommet for the PCV valve through Rockauto.

Please take note that it is NORMAL for some oil to be present in the intake.

A couple folks have had issues with broken springs for the valves.
Depending upon where the spring broke, you may or may not have noise.
You will need to remove the valve covers to inspect the valve springs.
One person posted pictures of their broken spring recently.
To avoid dropping the valve down into the head, this person rotated the motor to have the piston for the cylinder being worked on, in the TDC position......this is with the piston at the top most position.
You should be able to get the valve seals and springs through Rockauto.

I would also replace the valve cover gaskets......also available through Rockauto at good prices.
I would get the Felpro rubber style ones.
When you put the rear valve cover in place, use extra care to avoid rolling/pulling the gasket out of place.
The felpro rubber gaskets are to be DRY fitted.....no RTV.
A lot of oil can leak out the valve cover gaskets.

I am leaning more toward the problem being leakage and valve spring/seals.
Not leaning toward piston rings.

IMRC, if it was not working for a while, then it is likely that there is some crud built up that is causing the shaft to not turn freely.
Once you get it working freely, you should be fine.
As mentioned, if you remove the upper intake manifold to work on it......poke the EGR ports clear while you are there.
AVOID spraying cleaner down into the intake or having anything fall down into there as much as possible.....as it will be drawn into the cylinders from there.
Chunks could lodge in the valve seat and cause issues also.
I am well aware of the urge to make everything look squeaky clean, but that does not work well with keeping stuff out of on down in the intake.

Regarding your "oil loss". With your mileage, I would change your oil and go strictly with synthetic oil. Why? Because conventional oil will "carbon-up" the piston rings, causing them to stick, thus loosing compression, and allowing oil blow-by.
Synthetic oil, because of its much higher "flash point" (temp when it will burn) will NOT carbon-up, plus, it will gradually de-carbon the piston rings, and restore compression.

I had a car that burned 1 quart of oil every 900 miles. I changed over to synthetic oil and it burned the 1st quart after 900 miles. I added one quart. It burned the 2nd quart after 1,500 miles. I added one quart. Then it burned the next quart after 3,200 miles and remained at that level of consumption for the next few years until I sold it.

Furthermore, the use of synthetic oil will DRAMATICALLY increase the life of your engine by eleminating wear. A recent publication reported that by using synthetic oil (in this case, Mobile 1) "ALL metal-to-metal contact ceases to exist with synthetic oil"

My Windstar has over 230,000 miles and still has full compression! (synthetic oil of course)

NEXT: I have found that there seems to be a vibration "harmonic" associated with the 3.8 Windstar engine, that when the engine is running "rough", it caused the oil filter to vibrate up and down, compressing and un-compressing the rubber gasket, causing it to "splash" oil out past the seal. I resolved my problem by using a "oil filter socket", and tightening the filter past the recommended amount. (careful not to over-do it!)

Prior to my 2000 windstar breaking its valve spring it consumed a lot of oil as well. So far the valve cover upgrade has eliminated this. The plug where the broken valve spring was, was heavily fouled BTW.

Thanks for all of the great replies. You guys provided some inspriration get outside and deal with the cold here in PA, as I worked on the Windstar today.

First, I verified that in fact I did replace the front valve cover a few years back as I got a kit that contained a new valve cover, the isolator bolts, port seals, PCV, etc. I inspected the PCV valve - it seemed to be working fine. I squirted some Berrymans cleaner inside just in case.

I removed the cowl and the upper intake to get to the IMRC butterfly valves to see what the problem was with the bank 1 runner. I disconnected the IMRC control arm to see if the valves were sticking and thye were not so I reasoned that the arm had bent slightly, not allowing the valves to close when the bank 2 valves were colsed. So, that was a pretty easy fix.

I cleaned out the EGR ports again even thought they looked fine. I resisted the temptation to clean out the openings as you mentioned Wiswind and was careful not to get much of anything in that area.

I then removed both valve covers to inspect my springs. All looked fine I guess. I mostly used my fingers to check each spring to ensure it was in tact. I was amazed at how clean and "new" everthing looked under the valve covers. I then replaced the gaskets with new Felpro rubber gaskets and put the valve covers back. I put everything back together and put a can of Berryman B12 into the gas tank. The van is running about the same. The pinging seemed to be not as noticable. I did not visually watch the IMRC in action to verify it is working ok. I'll do that tomorrow. As I understand, I should be able to watch them close shortly after the engine starts.

I did not buy the stem seals yet and I am having a littlle trouble locating the spring tool required for the job so I am going to work on finding those things this week so I can install new valve stem seals next weekend. I am hoping that this will fix the fouling pugs, misfires and loss of oil. I hav those anti-fould bushings on the #5 and #3 cylinder plugs where I was having misfires and fouled plugs. I'll take out the bushings and install new plugs after I do the seals.

If time allows next weekend, I will also change the oil and switch back to synthetic. Ironiclly, the first signs of problems about a year ago began when I had switched to synthetic oil back then. First, I experienced some smoke from the exhaust during startup. And then shortly thereafter, I began losing oil... after a few too many quarts of synthetic, I just switched back to conventional.

Any thoughts or ideas for my work next weekend? I can't wait to get back at it. I have taken this van apart so may times I am getting pretty fast at it!

The correct spark plugs to use are double platinum.
They have plantinum enhancement on BOTH the center electrode and the ground tab.
They are sold under the Motorcraft and Autolite brand names.
The multi-prong and other fancy spark plugs that they often display at the auto part stores (for more money) will not be of any help, and will not perform correctly in the Windstar.

Your pinging issue is likely caused by carbon build-up inside the cylinders caused by the oil consumption.
This carbon build up raises the comression inside the cylinder, causing the pinging.
There is a Reflash available from FORD to retard the timing slightly to address this.
I would correct all the other issues and see how things go before trying this.

I just used a 20.00 autozone spring compressor to do mine

here is the 20.00 spring remover I used on my 2000. Where the piece that compresses the valve spring keeper retainer is just tap it with a hammer to narrow it so it fits the smaller beehive retainers.

Just bring each piston to TDC and remove the keepers and spring. (best at this time to replace springs anyways about 60.00 for the set and like 12.00 for all the seals, also order a couple extra keepers. got mine from rock auto) anyways after you remove the spring the valve will not fall more then maybe 2 inches, then dry the keeper groves and apply vaseline to the keeper groves. this will make the keepers stick to the valve stem during installation. the new dry seal will keep the valve up while you install the spring if it does fall just pry it up again is all. there is no need to used compressed air or rope in cylinder to do this. Worked like a charm on my 2000 3.8

Got it at autozone if memory serves me right and it worked great.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x300/jproz1167/newdigital/DSCF0191.jpg

Can additives hep to cut the carbon buildup in the cylinders?

I realized that I have been using the single platinum and not the double platinum so I will change all 6 plugs to the Autolite APP105's after I replace the seals. Also, I really want to get those anti-fouling bushing out of there as I feel that they may contribute to the rough idle or misfires, although I am not certain of this.

Hatethewindstar -Thanks for the pic as I really had no idea what the tool looked like. I found a few made by Neiko that seem like they will work such as this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Neiko-Tools-Universal-Overhead-Valve-Spring-Compressor-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem51975521aeQQitemZ35043 1289774QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools


Today, I had to work, but found some time to look under the hood. I checked oout the IMRC and it looks to be working fine. Prior to starting the runners were open and as soon as I started the engine, the valves closed all the way. I looked around some and noticed that I do have a fair amount of oil wetness all around the head gaskets. Not sure if that is normal or not. Anyway, with fouling plugs I still feel the stems are necessary so I am staying with our gameplan. I'll go to autozone tomorrow to see if they stock the valve spring compressor tool and if not I'll buy the one on ebay.

Can additives hep to cut the carbon buildup in the cylinders?

I realized that I have been using the single platinum and not the double platinum so I will change all 6 plugs to the Autolite APP105's after I replace the seals. Also, I really want to get those anti-fouling bushing out of there as I feel that they may contribute to the rough idle or misfires, although I am not certain of this.

Hatethewindstar -Thanks for the pic as I really had no idea what the tool looked like. I found a few made by Neiko that seem like they will work such as this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Neiko-Tools-Universal-Overhead-Valve-Spring-Compressor-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem51975521aeQQitemZ35043 1289774QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools


Today, I had to work, but found some time to look under the hood. I checked oout the IMRC and it looks to be working fine. Prior to starting the runners were open and as soon as I started the engine, the valves closed all the way. I looked around some and noticed that I do have a fair amount of oil wetness all around the head gaskets. Not sure if that is normal or not. Anyway, with fouling plugs I still feel the stems are necessary so I am staying with our gameplan. I'll go to autozone tomorrow to see if they stock the valve spring compressor tool and if not I'll buy the one on ebay.

I put just regular AP105 plugs in my 2000 and it is doing fine with them. My broken spring contributed to other missfires detected as well as lean condition detected on the rear bank and random missfire code. #2 spark plug was fould big time and that is the cylinder that had a broken exhaust valve spring.

I think you are going to find a broken spring. I did a thread and listed all the things my van did such as driveability issues and plug wire issues and after changing the spring it hasn't done any of it.

You might also want to check your coilpack mount for rust buildup that can affect the ground for the coilpack.

Any luck on purchasing the valve stem compression tool or the valve stem seals yet?

Mark

It was a rough weekend for the Windstar. I decided to delay working on the valve stem seals one weekend because temps were going to be in the 20's this weekend. Well, I got called into action anyway. The van began running really rough and of course there were codes. 1518, 0303,0302 and P0171.

For the 1518, I don't get that, I observe the position of the runners and they both look closed but there is pinging and I obviously can't tell if it is closed while driving but I suspect it is not fullly closed. A new IMRC motor from the dealer is $252 so I am hoping to delay that pending the outcome of the other problems.

The CEL began flashing and the van was almost undrivable. So off came the cowl and I inspected the #3 plug. It seemed ok to me and I had just replaced that wire about a month ago. Well I put in anther new AP105 that I had purchased a while back and went for a test drive. The CEL is still falshing an imediately showed the 0302 code. SO I checked that plug. Again, I have not worked on cars alot in my day so I am not so sure whata bad plug would look like. The threads were wet with oil and there was some crud on the plug so I changed it as well. After test drive, no improvement. Next changed the wire to #2, no change...The coil pack was changed last year some time. The only unusual circumstance recently is that I had a leak in the coolant system from that pipe that runs right along the block and the leak was squirting right on the coil for about a week so the coil looks a little dirty with antifreeze.

Anyway, back to the cylinder problem, I am thinking I would love to pull the injectors and soak them in some cleaner for a day because I was thinking that lack of fuel could be causing the recurring problems. The wetness in cylinder #2 is bothersome.

For my oil loss situation, I should mention that I realized that I have been running 10W40 instead of 5W30 at the suggestion from a tech at the parts store since I was losing oil rather quickly. I have lost only one quart in about a month - not bad.

So, I am beginning to wonder wether I can handle this repair myself. I still want to do and fell I can handle the stem seals, and at that time,while I have everything apart, I can pull the injectors and soak them. But I am having my doubts as to whether the end result will be a fixed motor.

Is it worth it to purchase the tools and learn how to perform a compression check on some of these cylinders? Would you just disconnect the IMRC for now and keep the butterflys closed? Can I troubleshoot the fuel system? What do you guys think? Is it time to consider just trying another shop for some help? I hate to go that way, but it was dissapointing that plug replacements did not eliminate the flashing CEL. Thanks for helping everyone!

Alot of stuff in that reply...let's see if I can address them all.

First your imrc. Before I ever paid $252, I'd throw $15 at a junkyard part. This is nothing more than an electrical motor. I'm sure you've checked, but are the white clips still intact and the arms connected to the motor? Thus is a very common problem on windstars.

Next, your rough running. You very well could have a bad coil. I know you just replaced it a year ago, but you've changed the plugs and it still does it. Did you check your wires? If it's consistently the same misfire on the same cylinder, you could try to swap wires with a known good one to test the wires.

Wet plug is almost certainly due to your oil (and a misfiring cylinder). To try and solve the misfire, run your engine at night, lift the hood and look for sparking. Bad coils or wires should be sparking to ground and you'll definitely see it. Backside of engine might be tough, but maybe a mirror might help.

Compression test....you can borrow the tool from almost any auto parts store, although purchasing them is usually pretty cheap. (~$15). Just screw it in in place of your spark plug and crank. I've always been told to remove all other plugs so that your engine rotates as freely as possible. Not sure if others agree, just what my dear ol' dad always taught me. In theory, all values should be close from cylinder to cylinder. No more than 10% difference between any of them. If you have a low one, squirt oil into the cylinder and retry. If it goes up, you could have bad rings. There are more advanced tests that can be done, but Ive never done them. They involve slowly rotating the engine while pressurizing it and locating where in the cylinder you have a problem. Would I freak out if any reading was more than 10% off....nope. I might worry if I had cylinder that had 20psi while the others had 100, but generally speaking, i'm not ripping a windstar engine apart for 10% variance. (once again, just personal preference)

I don't think your engine is as bad off as you think. Just work the problems one at a time and you'll be fine.

I'm going to purchase my valve stem seals tonight and attempt the job next weekend. My PVC tape up job did nothing for my oil consumption. I'll document the job if you'd like.

Mark

Nothing ever seems simple with this van combined with my inexperience. The IMRC is connected with new clips from a few weeks ago. I have watched the valves begin opened, then close when the van starts. I wrked on this a few weekends ago when the upper intake was off. EGR ports still looked fine and the butterflies moved freely. I did not do much cleaning arounde the butterflies as I was directed it could casue more harm...Anyway, can't hurt to try and find one at a junkyard.

For compression, my question really is what would I learn from the results? Would a low pressure at this point be blamed on a stem seal? Would it determine that serious problems exist and I may want to cut my losses? Seems like for the effort involved (seems easy enough) I may learn some stuff. So just pull all 6 plugs, carefully marked of course, then one by one, insert the gauge into each cylinder and turn over? Ok, O will work on that...

Ok, I saved the funny stuff for last. After getting bed and reading your post Mark, I was dying to know if I had any arcing going on. I actually left the cowl off the van so it was in perfect form for the test. So, off I went, outside in jammmys and slippers to look for arcs. Well, I saw nothing around any wires and nothing around the coil. My wife thinks I'm sort of nuts and I may agree with her!

So, I will get after that compression test before I do the seals and I check back after I gather those numbers. If anyone has some other thoughts; I am all ears...

Well that must of been some level of curiosity that you had. :)

You posted a question I wante to clarify for you. You asked about the valve stem seals and if a compression test would narrow it down for you. It wont. The valve stem seals sit at the very top of the valve stem, under the spring. They are rubber and simply designed to prevent oil from going down the valve stem, past the valve guide (which is metal) and into the cylinder.

A compression test will tell you about the condition of the cylinder itself. A perfectly good, brand new engine will show high compression (numbers are mfr./engine specific). As an engine wears, it might experience higher wear in a particular cylinder vs. the others (through design flaw or mechanical failure) In that cylinder, the walls could get scuffed up or gouged, the rings could begin to fail or the valves could get gunked up and not completely close. All of these (and other things) will prevent the cylinder from reaching maximum compression. The better your compression, the more efficient the engine, the more complete the burn, etc. The one thing it won't show you is whats happening above where the valve closes off.

You seem to have a good idea of how to proceed with the compression test. I'll give you one caveat that I recently experienced. Most compression testers that I've ever used are basically rubber hoses that have a spark plug thread on one end and what looks like an air compressor fitting on the other. The air compressor fitting plugs into the bottom of the gauge and the spark plug part screws into the engine. The hose part is normally one solid piece....no rotation along its length. Additionally there is a schrader valve that allows you to release the compression after you've cranked the engine and stopped. There are Orings at the spark plug end so you get a good snug seal. I had to borrow one from the parts store because I had to cut my hose several years ago in an emergency situation. :) I borrowed one from Autozone and it was absolutely, completely worthless.

On the spark plug end, just before the spark plug threaded part, there was a junction between the hose and the threaded part that rotated. So you basically rotate the hose it threads into the engine. All that worked fine until you reached the Oring. This is the critical part. You need to tighten a little bit so that the Oring expands and seals the hole. Well on this one, the threaded part was allowed to rotate seperately from the hose and I COULD NOT snug it down. So, I'd crank down as much as I could before the hose rotated and I'd crank the engine. I was unable to expand the Oring out enough and the compressed air would escape around the Oring, making a ridiculous sounding high pitched whistle. I promptly returned it and informed them that they should just throw that in the trash and never rent it again. All that is to say, check the tool that you get and make sure that it doesn't rotate at the threaded end. It makes it difficult.

One final thing, if I were you, I'd start on the rear of the engine. Those are the hardest ones to get to and I prefer to start with those and move toward the easier ones.

Good luck.

Mark

run a vacuum test on it. disconnect the power brake vacuum line and test it on that port .... I still say you have a broken valve spring and the apparent spark knock/detonation you hear is a rocker rattling.

My 2000 also had oil soaked plug threads and misses detected in various cylinders and rear bank lean condition.

do a vacuum test !!!!!!! when my #2 exhaust valve spring was broken that plug was heavily fouled and all other plugs were clean but still had oil on all threads. Mine also had starting issues which included extended cranking periods before it started. I did a thread read it.

Mine is still running excellent and have put about 750 miles on it since changing the valve spring.

Ok guys I am gearing up for my next round of work on my Windstar. I replaced the PCV with a new motorcraft PCV. The grommet fit is not so tight so I guess I should replace that as well.

I picked up the oil stem seals on ebay for$20 shipped and also bought 4 new injectors today on ebay for 45 delivered. As soon as I get the parts I plan to install both at the same time. Since I have the lean code P0171 for bank 1 along with P0302 misfire code, I am figuring that there is a good chance that I have a blocked fuel injector. I was going to remove, soak and clean the injectors but when I found new ones for $10 each I figured I may as well just replace all injectors on bank 1. So new seals, bank 1 injectors, and I'll give it an oil change and install Autolite app105's and see what happens. I am not sure which oil to put in 5W30? synthetic?

Before any of the above, I will complete a compression test and a vacuum test. I may do these tests this weekend as I doubt that I will have the new parts. For the compression test I will do both a dry and wet test and record the values back here. I have read how to do this but this will be my first compression test. For the vacuum test, I will hook a gauge up to the booster vacuum line and check. Never did this before either. If anyone has some specific ways to perform either of these tests please expand for me.

I think the new injectors will show immediate results and hopefully, the seals will provide some benefit to the oil loss.

How about top side combustion chamber cleaning. I have been pulling several different cylinder (2, 3 & 5) plugs with some nasty gunk over the last few months; I can only imagine what the valves and pistons/rings must look like. Any good cleaning ideas? Will the compression test results tell whether cleaning may be necessary? Is anyone expecting bad compression numbers?

Began work today and thought I would post results on the vacuum test to gather some feedback. After this post, I am going to begin my compression testing. I connected the gauge at the power brake connection on the firewall. I started the van cold and the vacuum gauage quickly went to 16 "Hg. After 30 seconds or so as the engine warmed, the vacuum increased to ~18"Hg. I wasn't exactly sure how to test or what else to look for so I just started revving the engine to watch the response of the gauge. On each quick rev cycle the vacuum would drop off initially to perhaps 5"Hg or close to 0 psi then quickly recover to above above 20" momentarily on deceleration then back to about 18" Hg as the rpm's stabilized. Repeated that a few times with the same result. Then I revved the motor and held the engine rpm steady at a higher rpm. Sometimes there was a modest increase to perhaps 18.5 or 19"Hg but then you could feel the misfire/rough running condition begin and the vacuum would drop off below 15" Hg and sometimes even closer to 10" Hg. Then the misfire would stop and the vacumm would recover back to about 18.5"Hg. This happened several times then I stopped. Hopefully, for you guys that know much more about this testing than me, I provided enough info to lend some insight to my problem. Well, onward to compression testing. Any feedback is appreciated. I'll post back in a while with more results. Planning on doing a dry and wet compression test on all of the cylinders.

Began work today and thought I would post results on the vacuum test to gather some feedback. After this post, I am going to begin my compression testing. I connected the gauge at the power brake connection on the firewall. I started the van cold and the vacuum gauage quickly went to 16 "Hg. After 30 seconds or so as the engine warmed, the vacuum increased to ~18"Hg. I wasn't exactly sure how to test or what else to look for so I just started revving the engine to watch the response of the gauge. On each quick rev cycle the vacuum would drop off initially to perhaps 5"Hg or close to 0 psi then quickly recover to above above 20" momentarily on deceleration then back to about 18" Hg as the rpm's stabilized. Repeated that a few times with the same result. Then I revved the motor and held the engine rpm steady at a higher rpm. Sometimes there was a modest increase to perhaps 18.5 or 19"Hg but then you could feel the misfire/rough running condition begin and the vacuum would drop off below 15" Hg and sometimes even closer to 10" Hg. Then the misfire would stop and the vacumm would recover back to about 18.5"Hg. This happened several times then I stopped. Hopefully, for you guys that know much more about this testing than me, I provided enough info to lend some insight to my problem. Well, onward to compression testing. Any feedback is appreciated. I'll post back in a while with more results. Planning on doing a dry and wet compression test on all of the cylinders.

When mine was on the vacuum gauge test the needle fluctuated very fast between 5 & 10 inches of vacuum but never could build more then 10. Doubt you would have those high readings with a engine with a compression issue as well. As long as the gauge is steady you don't have compression or valve issues.

is the mount for your coil pack rusty?

Yea it does look pretty rusty. I recently had a coolant leak from that tube that goes across the motor (front to back). Well back near where the coil pack is located is where the leak was, so I am sure the coolant was spraying on the coil for awhile before I figured out where the leak was. I will pull it off today and clean the connections. I will continue on with the compression test. I wish I had the new fuel injectors that I bouoght from ebay because I think that could be helpful to the cylinder 2 misfire. Hey, for the vacuum test, upon quick revving it sure does make sounds like sucking a large gulp of air and tracks with the complete loss of vacuum on acceleration. Is that typical? And thanks for the quick post!

Yea it does look pretty rusty. I recently had a coolant leak from that tube that goes across the motor (front to back). Well back near where the coil pack is located is where the leak was, so I am sure the coolant was spraying on the coil for awhile before I figured out where the leak was. I will pull it off today and clean the connections. I will continue on with the compression test. I wish I had the new fuel injectors that I bouoght from ebay because I think that could be helpful to the cylinder 2 misfire. Hey, for the vacuum test, upon quick revving it sure does make sounds like sucking a large gulp of air and tracks with the complete loss of vacuum on acceleration. Is that typical? And thanks for the quick post!

A plugged injector would show as a dead miss on vacuum. You have good vacuum readings, try this as well plug off all vacuum ports and see how it does. Sand down the coil pack mount so it has a good ground. switch #2 plug wire on coil pack to the tower across from it and see if the missfire moves to a different cylinder.

When I bought my new injectors the guy had said he has seen plenty of them fail and I noticed on mine the locking clips for the injectors electrical connector were broken. See if the connector to the #2 injector is tight.

Here are my compression readings, all dry. I removed the 15 amp fuse to the fuel pump and all spark plug wires to the coil pack. I left all plugs in tack and connnected the compression gauge to each plug and turned the car over for about 5-10 seconds. Repeated and documented the averages.

#1...175 psi
#2...175 psi
#3...152 psi
#4...175 psi
#5...160 psi
#6...135 psi

I was not happy with the 135 psi on cylinder#6. At least it is easy to get back that one and I may recheck and maybe try putting something oil in there and checking again.

I pulled the coil pack and checked for rust underneath, etc. It looked decent. I cleaned it with some steel wool and put it back together.

Of course, now it won't start so I may have run the battery too low. I double checked my wires on the coil - from the front of the car down the right side 3-2-1 and down the left side of the coil beginning with the front 4-6-5. I am pretty sure that is right. I will need to move it later tonight to jump for a restart.

The plugs looked ok with the exception of the #4 plug was pretty covered with oil. I just cleaned it a little witha rag and put it back. I am going to do the stem seals real soon and I will change all the plugs to new plugs at that time. I think all of the plugs right now are the AP105's

If you still have access to the injectors, since you suspected #2 injector, you could move it to one of the front bank cylinders.
If the #2 problem moves with the injector, you know you have a bad injector, and you can then change it more easily because it is in the front bank, and not in the middle in the back bank.

I got back to work on my van today. My plan was to change out the rear 3 injectors since I was able to pick them up for only $10 each on ebay. I removed the intake, etc. to get some room to see what I was doing and to my surprise I found the #2 injector was not electrically plugged in! As i inspected several other injectors. as I pressed the clips to disconnect, the clip would simply break off! Unbelieveable! So now all but maybe 1 injector is seated in place but with no locking clip. I may end up trying to secure with one wrap of electrical tape. They are sort of snug but obviously, given that one was off, the can vibrate off. Well, with any luck that will eliminate the lean code on bank one and the #2 misfire.

For my next task, the valve stem seals. I am sort of stuck on this job because of my lack of experience. I removed the front valve cover to get started. So it is my undersatnding that I need to rotate each cylinder to TDC so that nothing falls down when I dissasemble using the valve spring compreesion tool. Only problem is I am not sure how to rotate the motor or how to tell if the cylinder is TDC. I thought I was going to look in the spark plug hole but that does not seem possible. Some help would be awesome! You guys are going to make a car mechanic out of me soon!

I got back to work on my van today. My plan was to change out the rear 3 injectors since I was able to pick them up for only $10 each on ebay. I removed the intake, etc. to get some room to see what I was doing and to my surprise I found the #2 injector was not electrically plugged in! As i inspected several other injectors. as I pressed the clips to disconnect, the clip would simply break off! Unbelieveable! So now all but maybe 1 injector is seated in place but with no locking clip. I may end up trying to secure with one wrap of electrical tape. They are sort of snug but obviously, given that one was off, the can vibrate off. Well, with any luck that will eliminate the lean code on bank one and the #2 misfire.

For my next task, the valve stem seals. I am sort of stuck on this job because of my lack of experience. I removed the front valve cover to get started. So it is my undersatnding that I need to rotate each cylinder to TDC so that nothing falls down when I dissasemble using the valve spring compreesion tool. Only problem is I am not sure how to rotate the motor or how to tell if the cylinder is TDC. I thought I was going to look in the spark plug hole but that does not seem possible. Some help would be awesome! You guys are going to make a car mechanic out of me soon!


Read post # 18 in this thread: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1057795&page=2

Use a socket and 1/2 inch ratchet and turn the engine by hand clockwise. When the vlave tappets are both loose (tappets not touching the top of valve stem) the piston is on top dead center. You should be able to remove both valve springs and and change seals.

Do you have a repair manual???? for torque specs.

I got back to work on my van today. My plan was to change out the rear 3 injectors since I was able to pick them up for only $10 each on ebay. I removed the intake, etc. to get some room to see what I was doing and to my surprise I found the #2 injector was not electrically plugged in! As i inspected several other injectors. as I pressed the clips to disconnect, the clip would simply break off! Unbelieveable! So now all but maybe 1 injector is seated in place but with no locking clip. I may end up trying to secure with one wrap of electrical tape. They are sort of snug but obviously, given that one was off, the can vibrate off. Well, with any luck that will eliminate the lean code on bank one and the #2 misfire.

For my next task, the valve stem seals. I am sort of stuck on this job because of my lack of experience. I removed the front valve cover to get started. So it is my undersatnding that I need to rotate each cylinder to TDC so that nothing falls down when I dissasemble using the valve spring compreesion tool. Only problem is I am not sure how to rotate the motor or how to tell if the cylinder is TDC. I thought I was going to look in the spark plug hole but that does not seem possible. Some help would be awesome! You guys are going to make a car mechanic out of me soon!

Hocky,

PM me and I'll give you my private email address. I'm available to reply via email pretty quickly. I'm very familiar with the process since I did the front bank last night.

Mark

Well, I took the conservative route today and did not mess with the stem seals. I sort of have a plan in mind for that down the road, but for today, just replaced the bank 1 injectors and put everything back together. It is running good for now, but of course, I know better than to proclaim victory on the #2 misfire and bank 1 lean code. I'll check after I get a better idea of how the van is running.