1993 taurus gl wagon ignition issue

ok, so I have replaces the pcm, icm, and eecm on this thing. as well as distributor and coil. I am getting NO spark. I have fuel . but what i am wondering, is if there is a neutral safety switch, and if it will cause the engine to not spark. any help would be GREATLY appreciated as I am not fond of working on a car in 28 degree weather! :P

If your engine is cranking over your neutral safety switch is not at fault. Do you have power to ONE of the small wires that hooks onto the coil with the ignition switch turned ON?

yes my coil is getting 12 volts. I just found out from my brother in law who pulled the engine that his cherry picker tipped with the engine on it. so. I inspected all of the components and all seems well, no cracks or what not. heads are good. heres what I am wondering. I have 12 volts to my crank position sensor{ which would kill spark if not working} and I am curious if the crank or cam pos sensors would go bad based on an impact. it s the only other thing I can think of. any ideas?

Let's keep this thread going rather than starting new threads for this no-start issue (reference this thread (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1057677)) so we don't get only tid-bits of information in each.

The Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) is mounted at the crankshaft pulley. If when the cherry picker tipped it knocked the area of the crank pulley, it is possible the CKP was damaged, the wiring to it was damaged, or the gap between the tone ring and sensor was increased too much. On some models the CKP uses elongated holes so the installer and adjust the gap. Do you happen to have access to an oscilloscope/lab scope so you could check the output signal from the CKP? A multimeter set to measure AC voltage could work as well if you can safely backprobe the sensor and looking for an AC signal when the engine is cranking.

No signal from a CKP could prevent an engine start. No signal from the Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP) generally will not prevent the engine from starting, but increase the crank time and affect the driveability (spark timing, fuel injector pulse timing, etc).

I checked the factory service manual, it appears that if your car has just the 3.0L OHV engine with the distributor, you won't have a separate CKP. However, if your engine is the Flexible Fuel Vehicle engine, then it should have a CKP and and CMP and coil packs. Since you mention "distributor" and "coil" I'm guessing your engine may not have a CKP. Where was the CKP that you measured 12V at?

Have you checked for the Check Engine Light bulb test when the key is turned to the Run position, and if that works, have you checked for diagnostic codes.

-Rod

ok, first, sorry about multiple posts, was getting desperate.

now..on to the fun stuff.

what i tested as a ckp sensor is located on the forward part of engine, pass. side. below h20 pump, just forward of the fly pulley.

i do have console lights so i ran a diagnostic test. the codes are as follows

11
66
36
11
45
65
then repeat
11
66
36
11
45
65

then a series of repeating 1-1 flashes

i know 45 is a bad primary coil test failure, but I have replaced the coil with a brand new one. I am at a complete loss. I am nearly to the point of re pulling the engine to retrace my steps. although I dont really want to do that.

ok, troubleshot all of electrical system and narrowed it down to the icm or distributor. took in the icm to autozone, i had two, and had em tested. both were bad. I am guessing that a faulty wire hookup during install on the starter shorted out the icm that was in original car. as for the second icm, which came from donor car, as i think about it, the reason car was given was because it would fail to start. SOOO i am guessing the the icm on the donor car was bad as well. gonna go to the yard tommorow grab two more, have em tested , then install and see what happens. I will get back on here to let you guys know what I have found.

A code for a bad ignition primary doesn't necessarily point to a bad coil, but rather an issue on the primary side of the coil circuit. Lack of coil trigger could trigger that code.

-Rod

put in new icm. boom, got it running. Now I am having a vacuum issue i think. I have all lines hooked up,with one exception. there is a 1/4 inch or so black hose that is on the passenger side firewall, it comes off of the windshield wiper fluid connection.{ one line goes to wiper reservoir} this other one LOOKS like it runs to someplace behind the engine, but I cant find it. I am running into an issue where it will idle fine in park, but put it into R or D and it begins to sputter.

Congrats on getting it running!

It does sound like you have a vacuum leak, but it also sounds like the one you found is just for the driver's side windshield washer nozzle. If you trigger the washers do you get liquid from both nozzles? If not, find where the liquid is spraying and you'll probably find the other end of the hose as well.

Out of curiosity did you pull the spark plugs and wires to make sure they are in good shape? You might start with the basics if you cannot find any obvious vacuum leaks. If the plugs are wires are in good shape, the fuel filter is good, you have good fuel rail pressure, you know the gasoline is fresh, etc., then you will need to dig deeper for the vacuum leak/misfire source.

-Rod

ok i need to check the fuel filter for sure, and definitely flush out the fuel tank. this car has been setting for abt 4 years with fuel. the symptoms were the same on the motor that was in it before. so fuel could definitely be at issue. however I do have a vacuum question. there is a line coming off out of the manifold, it it is the only one with a tee type fitting on it, where does this go? it is a metal tube. i m missing the rear connection someplace basically i need a better diagram than the book gives. it only shows the engine side, but not what happens after. once i figure it out , i ll make a color diagram for the site.

Do you have the vacuum diagram on the underhood sticker/emissions label? Can you get a photo of the line you are referring to, post the photo on a photo-sharing site, and link to it here?

-Rod

ok rod, sorry about the delay, had life to deal with.

here is a link to my album with the pics.

first ? is . the pics with the wiring , i am thinking is the VSS which would cause my car to run poorly. where is this?

second ? is the hose I have in pics. where does it go?

http://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/l630/cipherlok/Taurus/

ok also i have pulled a code 636..which says TOT out of test range. i am wondering if the tot is my mystery wire and where the hack is it. also, would a bod O2 sensor cause the car to sputter and stall

ok update.

wiring was indeed to the vss.

vacuum tubing hooks up at rear of engine on pipe running over the r valve cover.

so here s where i am at.

vehicle starts, runs ok. shift into gear, it s ok until i give it gas. It sputters and stutters and seems like it is lacking power.

Now i set timing by eye. distributor WAS out and at 180. this stupid engine is missing the timing plate, so i need to find another. what I am wondering is. is the timing out? I also noticed that an oxygern sensor on the rear manifold is sorta cracked , with a little wiring exposes, but all is connected and not frayed. I run my computer trst off of the dash, and I get code 111 which says system pass. any suggestions?

ok fellas, time for an update. the car is alive and well, and idles ok in park and neutral. when i put it in gear it runs rough, surges, and then will shudder and stall out. I pulled codes, and got 211..PIP sensor fault. I know the PIP is located in the distributor, and since i have TOTSLLY guessed as far as dist location while installing, since i have no timing pointer on my engine, i am suspect that the timing is off and causing the problem.

heres the question.

would a distributor being placed in the wrong position cause the computer to throw a 211?

and i am still getting the 636, off and on. what could be causing this?

SUCCESS!!!! :D :D :D

It was indeed the timing! figured it out, started it up. runs well. managed to put it into gear, no stumbling. drove around the block and checked to make sure gears shift, all is good!! also checked mph gauge, and is working. no stalls. parked and shut off. checked for codes. 111 all clear.!! now on to emissions..........