2000 3.8-Neutral SftySw-Is this the shaft?

Hi, all.

I am a mommy newbie who has been working on "Big Burgundy" (my Windstar's name) all by myself. I have camped out in these forums and with all the knowledge I have learned from you all I have managed to replace spark plugs,fuel filter, starter, alternator, battery and a list of other things all by myself! THANKS!

Now...on Christmas Day my CEL came on:uhoh: I had already bought an Actron OBDII scan tool and was kind of excited that now I finally get to use it but doggone it I was worried too! It was the code (I can't remeber it now as I sit here and type) for the Transaxle Range Sensor/neutral safety switch (p07075 or something).

I bought a new one and it is waiting to be put on. I saw the video that was suggested here: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=947059&highlight=neutral+safety+switch and figured OK, easy.

In the video he did not talk about a lever to get off 1st (photo1 below). I finally got that off with about 1/2 can of WD40 and 12 hours of letting it sit. Now I get to this piece (photo2) that is currently sitting under more WD40 waiting for an answer from you all on what to do. Is photo2 (below) the actual SHAFT that I need to pull the switch of off? I cannot pull the switch off as it stands now. I will try tomorrow after the WD40 soaks in overnight. I have already assumed it was another nut and tried to remove it. AARRRGGHH! Now the Switch has twisted and not lined up and my PINK nail polish marks have worn away with the WD40.

I know I need an alignment tool - if there is such a thing to help me get it back together.

Have I messed things up? Please Help!

photo1
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/12_28_0.jpeg

Photo2
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/12_28_1.jpeg

The sensor should just pull off. You might need to pry it gently to get it to come loose. You can get by without an alignment tool. Be sure the vehicle is in neutral. There is a little line on the center white section of the sensor. There is a corresponding line on the outside part of the sensor. Line these marks up, in neutral, and tighten screws.

The sensor should just pull off. You might need to pry it gently to get it to come loose. You can get by without an alignment tool. Be sure the vehicle is in neutral. There is a little line on the center white section of the sensor. There is a corresponding line on the outside part of the sensor. Line these marks up, in neutral, and tighten screws.

Thank You, way2old! The underlined above in your reply helped me out a lot! I will be giving it a try tomorrow. I am glad to know that photo2 is the shaft.

All of the parts on my van are original and whoever had it before me did no repairs obviously. Apparently they traded it in (in 2006) just before all this crap I am doing to it needed to be done. Thank goodness I am handy with a wrench and have you all.

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Congratulations on all the work you've done! I can count with the fingers of my hand the number of women would do the same.

I remember seeing several times that the users had to break the original sensor in order to take it out, when they put the new one in they had no problem and the alignment marks way2old told you about worked perfectly to get the job done.

Best regards,

Oscar.

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Congratulations on all the work you've done! I can count with the fingers of my hand the number of women would do the same.

I remember seeing several times that the users had to break the original sensor in order to take it out, when they put the new one in they had no problem and the alignment marks way2old told you about worked perfectly to get the job done.

Best regards,

Oscar.

Thank you so much Oscar! :smile: That made me feel good about myself:icesangel

I was just laying here thinking I might have to break that darn piece off! I will see what it is doing in the morning.

Hi, all.

When I went out this morning, I noticed that the white piece around the shaft was cracked (link below) I didn't notice it yesterday.
cracks==> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/12_29_0cracks.JPG

So I continued to crack the piece up to get the switch off and noticed that the shaft is sooooo rusted up==> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/12_29_1.JPEG

I am just going to continue to chip away at it until I get the piece off.

Have I done any damage? ==> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/12_29_2.JPEG

I don't believe so. That shaft simply sits in the white part and turns the switch. I replaced mine when I replaced my tranny and I didn't have similar problems. You have nothing to worry about. (although since you're dismantling an electrical switch, it may be wise to disconnect your battery until you have it out.)

Mark

No problem!

Have you managed to get it out already?. If not I think it might help to put the van in neutral, I'm very sorry I didn't post this earlier; I've never replaced any...

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=968798&highlight=trs

By the way, this will boost your attitude up to the skies:
You've worked more on your van than any other guy in my neighborhood, besides me of course LOL. Here people calls the technician to get a light bulb replaced...

Best regards,

Oscar.

Hi, Mark & Oscar. This thing was a *&%$# to get off ==> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/12_29_3.JPEG

I got it off by using a Craftsman super long and thick flat head and a hammer! The rust was atrocious!

Oscar you are a sweetie pie, but don't get me geeked* just yet. I am having an even harder time getting the new piece on, LOL! :wink:

This shaft is no joke (photo before I cleaned it)==> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/12_29_4.JPEG

I will work with it again tomorrow.

*geeked - an 80s term that means big head, feeling of pride, props, LOL! after fighting with that new switch all day I have NONE of that (just kidding) :wink: And yes, I still use the word geeked! :)

Oh, and Oscar the Lincoln Town Car will always be my favorite sedan car choice. I rented one in 1991 for a year (don't ask) and fell in love with the comfort of it. The only bad thing at that time was the shocks or something with the back end of it. I guess they've improved on it by now. :naughty:

That is a nasty little shaft you're dealing with. Mine came off lickety split when I did it. I think a small wire brush and about 5 minutes would do a world of difference on that shaft. You can pick one up at probably any parts store for around $2.

The good news is that with a crappy looking switch like you've got, you're most certainly onto the culprit.

BTW, EXCELLENT job posting pictures of each of the stages of your project. Many newbies have a hard time knowing exactly what we are discussing. Good pictures goes a long way in the future.


Mark

Hi, Mark. Thank you. :)

That photo fo the shaft was actually before I started to clean it. I am off to the store today to get some rust cleaner/remover if there is such a thing to finish the cleaning. I forgot that there were two grooves along the sides of the shaft that needed to be cleaned also. When I cleaned the shaft with the wire brush I probably pushed more gunk into those grooves...:shakehead

...off I go.

BTW, you should put some anti-seize lubricant on the shaft before putting on the new switch. Good luck.

Hi, MARZBX157. Great suggestion! I went out and bought some this afternoon.

After letting a vinegar and baking soda solution sit overnight ==> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/12_31_0.JPEG

and after wire brushing I came out to find that the grooves were STILL totally filled with large amounts of rust. ==> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/12_31_1.JPEG

Sooooo, I made another b.s. & v. concoction to let sit overnight last night (night #2). This morning I cleaned and cleaned and scraped the grooves down with the tip of a pointy knife to get it super clean.

I forgot to get a photo of the shaft after I got it superclean :banghead: but...the piece finally went on! ==> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/12_31_4.JPEG

But now I am scared to go and actually see if Big Burgundy will start & go :shakehead

If this piece is on wrong what will happen if I try to put her in Drive or even try to start her?
She is still sitting in neutral with the key in the ignition and a cinder block under her back tires. I will not touch her until I hear from one of you all...
sooo, I patiently await and HAPPY NEW YEAR!

UPDATE (since post above)

I just went ahead and connected the battery cable and decided to just go ahead and see what happens.

First, I put her in PARK.( so much easier to do this now)
Second, I started her up
Third, I noticed the O/D OFF light was on and so was the CEL, still.
Just for the heck of it, I connected the scan tool and got code p0708 (high circuit input)

Did I do something wrong? I was reading somewhere that I should put the car in neutral and start it, then what?

I await...

I think you should be fine. I've replaced the NSS on my 2000 3.8 and you've done a great job of the repair!

I think you should connect up your code reader, clear the code, then start. If you've still go the van on blocks and it's safe to do so, you could go thru the gears to make sure it's fine. I'd expect it is and on the odd chance that it isn't the shift of the transaxle will be ok but the electronics will be the messed up part. On the NSS there is an identifying mark for installation and assuming you lined those marks up, the alignment tool Ford refers to is not necessary.

I think you're 99.9% there. Make sure you get all the connectors reconnected and vac lines too.

Let us know how you do!

WindstarMom,

I'd clear the code and see what you get. That code that you got does correlate to a Park/Neutral safety switch. I'd clear it and restart and see if it comes back. I'm doing some additional research and I'll post anything pertinent that I find. I think it is just a misadjusted sensor if it's anything.

Mark

WindstarMom,

Alright, I think I've figured out your issue. I believe that your switch is slightly misadjusted. If you refer to your picture, you can see that the bolts are not centered in the hole.

The middle of the switch is anchored to the shaft. It would be possible, once you've placed the switch on the shaft, to rotate the outer portion of the switch and actuate the switch. I believe that's what you've done here, if ever so slightly. I'd rotate your switch so that the bolts sit squarely in the middle of the holes and lightly torque them down. Clear/rescan your code and see what you get.

From what I've seen on the internet, the switch should have a mark on the inside (rotating portion) part of the switch and the outer part. When those are together, the switch is in neutral. You can put your van in neutral and those marks should be aligned. If they are off, that's your problem.

Mark

Place the Windstar in neutral, then adjust the switch until the marks line up. Tighten it down at that point. As stated earlier, erase the code and drive it.

Thank you northernpiper and way2old

I have done the lining up of the line on the center turning thing with "N" on the outer piece and it works fine but the code (p0708) is still there... the lever with the oval shaped hole that goes over the center nut goes on with ease and fits down easily.

EDIT: Oh, I see what you are talking about, Mark!! I will go out tomorrow and check to see if when I re-adjusted the 2nd time if it straightened out-I hadn't even noticed that!

But, should start the van while still in Neutral instead of putting it in Park?

I have already driven it (only 1/4 mile, tho') and it felt fine, easier to put it in gear and everything, but if you all think something is still wrong then I trust you all.

Now don't you all go and celebrate too much tonight :nono:...I am still going to need your help in the new year.LOLOL!

Happy New Year!

Well, I still go out every once in a while to try to align the lines perfectly. The codes are still there but the O/D OFF and CEL still are on although she still drives even better to me now.

NOW I noticed that my reverse lights don't come on when backing up. TRS/neutral switch mis-alignment issues, huh? :shakehead

I will keep adjusting until I get it right. :runaround::banghead: :screwy: :shakehead
If I should encounter further problems I hope I can come ask for help again. I hope I didn't get on your nerves with this issue too much.

Happy New Year!

Well, I still go out every once in a while to try to align the lines perfectly. The codes are still there but the O/D OFF and CEL still are on although she still drives even better to me now.

NOW I noticed that my reverse lights don't come on when backing up. TRS/neutral switch mis-alignment issues, huh? :shakehead

I will keep adjusting until I get it right. :runaround::banghead: :screwy: :shakehead
If I should encounter further problems I hope I can come ask for help again. I hope I didn't get on your nerves with this issue too much.

Windstar,

I think that do, in fact, have a misaligned (or possibly bad) transmission safety switch. That switch is also what tells your computer that you selected reverse and your computer turns on the reverse lamps.

Basically, there is a mechanical system and an electrical system. Your mechanical system is working fine, but the electrical system is still out of whack. I can offer you a troubleshooting technique.

Put your car back in neutral and remove the switch again. This time, leave the connector connected. If you manually rotate the inner part, you should see your reverse lights illuminate. If they never do, you almost certainly have a bad switch. I suspect they will.

If I were you, this is what I'd do. I'd put your car into Neutral. (mechanically) Then I'd remove the switch and manually put the switch in neutral by lining up the marks on the switch. I'd then gently place the switch back on the shaft and tighten it down ensuring that the switch stays in the aligned position. If you get that, you should have it down.

One final thought. Did you, by chance, check the part number on the new switch vs. the old switch? A little trick of the trade, but you should always keep the old part until you have the new part in hand, installed and working. Always compare the new part to the old one. Part numbers don't always match, but if they've changed it, the retailer or dealership will tell you that the new part is equivalent to the old part.

Keep trying and keep us informed.

Mark

Hey, Mark & everyone! The code is gone! I (with your help) have done it! :iceslolan

When you wrote: " I'd then gently place the switch back on the shaft and tighten it down ensuring that the switch stays in the aligned position".
that is what I was doing wrong. Everytime I would tighten that center nut it would slip out of alignment. :shakehead But I thought that the van wouldn't start if even the smallest thing was wrong so, I thought everything was right.

Now I have to wait until my child wakes up to let me know if the white lights come on when I go into reverse.

"A little trick of the trade, but you should always keep the old part until you have the new part in hand, installed and working. "
Good Idea! My new part came from AutoZone for $30 plus tax. I will remember that.

Thanks, Mark and to everyone who helped.

UPDATE: The reverse lights are on! Big Burgundy is fixed! (at least for now)

Congratulations! I've been working on cars since I started driving (and before then on my dad's car) and I still enjoy defeating those tricky problems that aren't easy fixes. I've got a P.O.S. 2000 Kia with 190,000 miles, a 1995 Windstar with 180,000 and a 2000 Windstar with 160,000 miles. I often joke that I'm like a crazy stalker with my cars. I decide when our relationship is over, no them. :)

Good luck and don't be afraid to post future problems. I've found this forum to a fantastic help. (and I've been on many forums that are ghost towns...this isn't one of them)

Mark

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

The code is gone!

UPDATE: The reverse lights are on! Big Burgundy is fixed! (at least for now)[/B][/U]

Congratulations! That's a job well done. I hope you don't get any more problems, but if it still happens we all will be glad to try and help! :wink:


Oh, and Oscar the Lincoln Town Car will always be my favorite sedan car choice. I rented one in 1991 for a year (don't ask) and fell in love with the comfort of it. The only bad thing at that time was the shocks or something with the back end of it. I guess they've improved on it by now. :naughty:

Yeah, it's one of the greatest rides I've ever driven. It used to be my brothers car, but he died in a car accident along with my father 4 years ago (sad story) so I decided to try it before deciding on wether to sell it or not, when I first drove it I was so happy with the ride comfort that I never thought about trying to sell it again, I've been fixing small details on it, most of them it's common maintenance work, but so far so happy with it!

I know what you're talking about with the rear suspension, the air springs get worn with time and develop small cracks which makes them leak the air keeping the compressor running all the time (which eventually gets worn) or the air leak is so big that the rear end will sag. It really is not a big deal taking into account it's not that hard to replace them, I've never done those on mine but it should take about an hour, or 2 for the first time, to replace them and aftermarket parts aren't that expensive anymore, plus you get lifetime warranty :grinyes:. I would have rented one for as much as I could afford it too!

Best regards,

Oscar.

"...brothers car, but he died in a car accident along with my father 4 years ago (sad story)"
Oscar, I am very sorry that happened. I send to you my heartfelt condolences. (((hug)))
__________________________________________________ ____
Big Burgundy is back to jerking I guess when she's goes from 1st to 2nd gear. When I go up hills its like I can't get up the speed no matter how wide open her throttle is.

I guess I am off to search the forums for the next couple of days again and do some extensive reading. (((sigh))) I just hope the work that may need to be done is something that I am able to do.

"...brothers car, but he died in a car accident along with my father 4 years ago (sad story)"
Oscar, I am very sorry that happened. I send to you my heartfelt condolences. (((hug)))
__________________________________________________ ____
Big Burgundy is back to jerking I guess when she's goes from 1st to 2nd gear. When I go up hills its like I can't get up the speed no matter how wide open her throttle is.

I guess I am off to search the forums for the next couple of days again and do some extensive reading. (((sigh))) I just hope the work that may need to be done is something that I am able to do.

Is it the engine jerking or the transmission? What about check engine light? Are you getting one?

Try starting it in L1 and then manually shifting it to L2 and see what you get.

Mark

Nice to hear you got it done.

Oscar, I am very sorry that happened. I send to you my heartfelt condolences. (((hug)))


:)


Big Burgundy is back to jerking I guess when she's goes from 1st to 2nd gear. When I go up hills its like I can't get up the speed no matter how wide open her throttle is.

As asked above:
Do you have any warning lights on the dashboard?, how bad is the jerking?, does it feels like engine or transmission?.

Do you have any idea when was the last time the fuel filter was replaced?

Best regards,

Oscar.

Hi, all.
Thanks, MARZBX157. I had to just, adjust then re-adjust like 20 times :)

Hi Mark & Oscar. You guys are way too technical for me, LOL! I have no idea how to tell if it's the engine or transmission jerking :frown: Tell me how to tell.

*fuel filter replaced Oct 23, 2010. I replace them as scheduled.

1. After coming to a stop when I go to make my turn I will press on the gas and then she will start jerking...feels like I am driving a stick shift car with no experience. (I know how to drive a stick, tho' )

2. When I finally get her going to speed limit on the road she will just lose speed (slow down) right while I am driving in traffic or in a flow. I can see the speedometer drop from 60-65 down to 40 within seconds --all while my foot has the gas pedal all the way down!

I am terrified that this will cause an accident. It almost DID while I was going through the hills and mountains in West Virginia :frown: I do a lot of back and forth traveling from Michigan to North Carolina.

I know that ALL the liquids/fluids need flushing and replacing. They haven't been done since I bought her in 2006 and I am quite sure the previous owners never did.

I'm new to this whole thread and just jumped in at the TRS problem but did the van do this sort of thing pre replacement of the TRS? Have you checked all vac lines, MAF and other things?

p

Check your transmission fluid level. Check it with the engine and tranny at operating temp. Cycle from park down into low and back to neutral. Check the fluid in neutral. Don't forget to use your parking brake.

Check your transmission fluid level. Check it with the engine and tranny at operating temp. Cycle from park down into low and back to neutral. Check the fluid in neutral. Don't forget to use your parking brake.

Ok, Mark. I will check it tomorrow morning. When you say "cycle from park down into low" which low are you speaking of? Sorry for me being so dumb. :frown: I am not technical just yet but I will get there.

Hi, northern_piper. Yes, it was doing this before I replaced the TRS but the CEL came on but after I replaced the TRS I thought all would fixed.

Check your transmission fluid level. Check it with the engine and tranny at operating temp. Cycle from park down into low and back to neutral. Check the fluid in neutral. Don't forget to use your parking brake.

That's a good idea. He meant to say you should cycle through every gear and wait a second at each gear until you get to 1, after that switch back to neutral.

Sorry about the technical stuff, when the van shudders you mentioned the engine wouldn't accelerate at all, if the RPM's go up but the van doesn't moves then it would be a transmission problem. If the van doesn't moves at all it will be a different problem more likely an engine problem.

Regards,

Oscar.

I would do a full flush of the transmission and change the filter and see how she runs afterwards.

1. After coming to a stop when I go to make my turn I will press on the gas and then she will start jerking...feels like I am driving a stick shift car with no experience. (I know how to drive a stick, tho' )

2. When I finally get her going to speed limit on the road she will just lose speed (slow down) right while I am driving in traffic or in a flow. I can see the speedometer drop from 60-65 down to 40 within seconds --all while my foot has the gas pedal all the way down!

I am terrified that this will cause an accident. It almost DID while I was going through the hills and mountains in West Virginia :frown: I do a lot of back and forth traveling from Michigan to North Carolina.

It seems to be a weak fuel pump problem. Or an EGR valve, EGR port or DPFE sensor problem.
You may also have a lean mixture codes if EGR is stuck open.

It will be good if you scan your new OBD 2 codes. Because you like to work on your Windstar, it'll be a good idea that you buy an OBD2 code scanner.
You don't need the professional CAN-BUS scanner for a 2000 Windstar, a simple universal OBD2 reader is enough.

, if the RPM's go up but the van doesn't moves then it would be a transmission problem.

Hi, Oscar...that's exactly what's happening. The engine will rev then the speedometer will go up but she slows down.

MARZBX157...here I go sounding dumb again, but do you mean a transmission filter? I know, bear with me please.

Is a transmission flush something I can do myself or should I go to a transmission shop?

Hi, serge_saati...I feared that something might be wrong with the fuel pump when it first started to happen. But then I checked a price on the pump $225 and then found out labor cost $210 and said to myself "nah, that's not the problem." :rolleyes:

The engine will rev then the speedometer will go up but she slows down.

Oh so the rpm goes up... I thought your engine lack of power. So don't mind what I said about pump, EGR, DPFE... etc. It's a transmission problem.

It's seem that the problem is either the clutch pack, clutch bands or servos for gear sets of 4th gear.
The "3-4 shift valve solenoid" shifts the trans from 3th to 4th gear by opening an integrated valve that allow trans fluid to activate the clutch pack.
If clutch pack is not working, it's like if you were in neutral.

If you drive with O/D off, it still slowing down? The O/D off light is still on your dashboard?

When the PCM (computer) detects the transmission problem, it prevents the trans to shift until you stop.

Your engine code can tell you if you have a trans solenoid problem, but you need a high tech OBD reader to scan trans codes.

Or, you still have an issue with your TRS. Maybe the alignment is still incorrect.

WindstarMommy,

Yes, you will need a new transmission filter as well as about 15 to 18 quarts of transmission fluid. There are many posts here on the procedure, but basiclly you will
1. remove one of the transmission lines (return line) and connect that to some clear tubing which you can get at Home Depot.
2. Run the clear tube into a bucket to catch the fluid.
3. Run the engine and let the fluid run out then shut the engine off.
4. Remove the trans. pan and change the filter, replace the pan.
5. Put fluid in through Trans. the dip stick (about 6 QTs.)
6. Repeat step 3. until you see the color of the fluid turn nice and red (clean looking) Through the clear tubing.
7. reconnect the trans. line and check fluid levels.

Again, if you search in this forum you will find tons of info and probably more detailed than what I put up here. this is just a run-down of it.

According to Dekeman, it's not a good idea to flush the trans fluid if it's more than 2 years old. It could damage the trans. It's better to just let drop the old fluid and add new. Or not change it at all.
Cause the dirt can cumulate at clutch bands and damage them.

serge_saati...I thought you could only pull codes when CEL was on? Before I bought my own scan tool everyplace I took it to told me "we can't read anything if the CEL is not on (Autozone, Mechanic Shops, etc) so are you saying it is possible?

I will drop the old fluid and replace it. That seems easy enough for me but first I will research the forums, do the gear test that Mark told me to do and hold onto the info that MARZBX157 gave me tomorrow. Thanks, guys.

I'm off to bed now...it's 1053pm. I will check the boards before I go "mechaning" in the morning. Good-night, fellas.

serge_saati...I thought you could only pull codes when CEL was on? Before I bought my own scan tool everyplace I took it to told me "we can't read anything if the CEL is not on (Autozone, Mechanic Shops, etc) so are you saying it is possible?

I will drop the old fluid and replace it. That seems easy enough for me but first I will research the forums, do the gear test that Mark told me to do and hold onto the info that MARZBX157 gave me tomorrow. Thanks, guys.

I'm off to bed now...it's 1053pm. I will check the boards before I go "mechaning" in the morning. Good-night, fellas.

Windstar,

You are correct. There are no codes unless the CEL is on. (Although a code that cleared would still show in the history, even though your CEL isn't on)

Not to start overriding other's suggestions here, but just check your tranny fluid first before you start doing flushes/change outs etc. A tranny low on fluid would act very similar to what you're describing. Solenoids failing would mean your engine would run at very high RPMs because the transmission would never engage the higher gear. (Similar to driving down the road with your car in L1 or L2)

Not to toss fear around, but let me tell you my experience. I bought a 2000 w/ 3.8l and thought it was a good idea to put new fluid in the tranny. (This is something most people NEVER do and it's supposed to be done regularly). I threw down for the Mobil 1 synthetic "good stuff" and put it in. I drained what was in the pan and replaced the filter. Filled it back up and drove it around. (Doing it this way does NOT get all of the old fluid out because approx. half it resides inside the tranny and not in the pain, but if you do it frequently, you'll be fine) Anyway, less than 2 weeks later, my transmission started acting terrible. I had hell getting it to shift gears when you driving. If it ever did make it OD, it'd be fine, but sometimes I couldn't make it up to OD.) Anyway, I took it in to a transmission shop and had them diagnose it. It was a busted band in the transmission (or so they told me.) The repair was around 2k w/ only a 6 month warranty. (AAMCO) I was able to get a new tranny from Pep Boys for around $1600-$1700 and I installed it myself. This is a MAJOR swap. I'd never done a transverse mounted tranny swapout, but it was murder. The entire subframe came out and the engine was held up by an engine hoist. (The subframe is what your wheels/suspension and everything else under the hood is connected to.)

Autozone had it for quite a bit cheaper (~$1300), but it wasn't in stock.

Hopefully your problem is easy. I'd hate for you to have such a good success and then be thwarted by an unrelated tranny problem.

I thought that your CEL was still on, my mistake. I just re-read post #22.

Oh, no problem serge_saati.

OK, guess what?! I just went through the gears and let Big Burgundy get to operating temp. I checked the tran fluid while she was running in Neutral...the very tip (the rounded part) of the dipstick was the only part of the stick that was wet.

The level was no way NEAR the crosshatch area :frown:
I thought that tran fluid never ran out. Does this mean there is a leak somewhere?

Yes, inspect trans pan, torque converter and trans seals. It's something critical.

OH, SNAP!!!! Really, serge_saati?!?! :frown::frown:

I took these photos just now...tell me is this the pan you are talking about?
I know that the one with the red markings is the oil, I mean the one behind it.

==> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/01_07_7.JPEG

==> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/01_07_8.JPEG

==> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/3435jj/01_07_11.JPEG

Exactly what am I looking for when I inspect it? Do I just loosen those bolts that hold the pan up there? Please let me know.

I know when I got my oil changed about 2 weeks ago I went into the bay while she was hoisted because I could see all this oil on that exact pan in the photos. The guy told me "you got a leak somewhere" but he couldn't determine if it was an oil or tran leak :eek7:. ((I can't wait until I learn how to change my own oil)) We looked at the color but it was so dirty that I couldn't determine it either.

Yes it's this pan. With AXOD METRIC marking.
No don't loose the bolts. Just check all around the transmission. Maybe the leak is higher than the pan.

Oscaaaaarrrrrrrr and Maaarrrrrrrkkkkkk! (that's me calling you all)

serge_saarti said that something is definitely wrong. :disappoin

Mark I was reading the "Transmission Failing" thread and you wrote: Being a newbie, you may want to invest in having it changed. You can do it yourself, but it's not nearly as easy as an oil change. The tranny pan has to come off to do it properly. If you have a buddy willing to show you, it's worth seeing, but I don't know if I'd attempt it blind. Not difficult, just very messy if you don't know what you're doing. If you'd like me to walk you through it, let me know.

If its low, its probably been overheated and could stand to be replaced. I hope that it fixes your problem. That'd be great.

I applaud your attempt to learn how cars work. I was lucky and my dad made me change the shocks on my moms car when I was about 9. He just handed them to me and said go change these. I had to find them and then figure out to change them. That sort of learning still serves me well today. Its never too late to learn how to work on your car and you'll be amazed at how much money you save doing it.

Mark, I think the same way your dad did/does (((applause for Mark's dad))) I am going to need you and Oscar and everyone else's help to explain to me how to check for what my tranny needs.

I await...

Ok, here's my advice:
-add MERCON V (not mercon I or other) trans fluid to the recommanded level in cold range when trans is cold. Which is ~0.5" below hot range. Don't add too much.
-Go to a trans shop and have it checked for the leak
-if the leak need to be scealed by adding trans seal, agree to have the sceal repaired
-they will add fluid again if it needs

You shouldn't seal the trans yourself. It's something very difficult.

Maybe the clutch band has overheated and new seal will not fix the problem. Maybe it'll fix the problem. So take a chance. Drive with O/D off to the shop.

Ok, here's my advice:
-add MERCON V (not mercon I or other) trans fluid to the recommanded level in cold range when trans is cold. Which is ~0.5" below hot range. Don't add too much.
-Go to a trans shop and have it checked for the leak
-if the leak need to be scealed by adding trans seal, agree to have the sceal repaired
-they will add fluid again if it needs

You shouldn't seal the trans yourself. It's something very difficult.

Maybe the clutch band has overheated and new seal will not fix the problem. Maybe it'll fix the problem. So take a chance. Drive with O/D off to the shop.

So I can go ahead and add tran fluid right now and then take her to the tran shop to have the leak found? How much should I add?

serge_saarti, I just know that they are going to jack me around when I do go. What should I say to them so that I sound like I know what I am talking about?

Add 1/4 of 1qt bottle until it reaches 0.5" below the crossed hatch.
Just say that you have replaced the TRS and then after you've realized that you're loosing fluid and the leak needs to be fixed. And talk about the drivability issue.
Don't let them replace any parts.

WindstarMommy,

You are correct about the pan in the photo. You will have to remove those small bolts round the pan; because there is no drain plug you will have to loosen them slowly and tilt the pan toward an angle so as to let the fluid out into a catch pan without making a mess. Once the pan is off, you will see the filter in place and you can remove then wipe the area down with clean rags including the inside of the pan. After the area is clean, replace with a new filter and replace the trans. pan.

You will add new Mercon V Transmission fluid (about 6 Qt.s) through the trans. dip stick tube so make sure you have a funnel that fits. Start the engine and continue to check the fluid levels, adding until within the specified area. After what Serge_Saati said about doing a Full Flush on trans. that hasn't had one for a long time, I would do just the "drop pan" method and see the results. Who knows, your problem could just be from low fluid as you stated which will cause slipping. If this does fix the problem then you can do the flush at a later date, like in the Spring or Summer months. Good Luck.
BTW, you should replace your transmission fluid every 30,000 miles.

Hello WindstarMommy,

I'll do as much as I can to help, but to be honest I'm not an expert specially when talking about transmissions. That doesn't means I'll stop trying to help :).

As suggested before a fluid change is a good idea, my pontiac had the same issue I came to a stop and the car would just rev up but wouldn't move an inch, somehow the car started to move and I drove straight home. The fluid level was fine, but hadn't been replaced in some time, I was at college and couldn't afford to spend time working on my car with all the homework and projects I had to do..., I drained the fluid and changed the filter and everything went back to normal, the filter was being blocked by dirt and that kept the fluid from flowing properly within the transmission.

Changing the fluid isn't that hard to be done, but expect to make A BIG MESS on your driveway as oil starts spilling out of the pan, it doesn't matters how hard you try,it always gets spilled (at least in my case LOL). What I did was:

1.-loosen all of the bolts around the pan enough so you have a gap between the bolt's heads and the pan.
2.- Remove the front bolts
3.- Pry the pan off from the transmission with a small screwdriver, be careful not to damage it.
4.- This is when the fluid should start spilling, if you did it as I suggested, the pan will be hanging towards the front of the van and it will be easier to catch the fluid spilling out.
5.- Wait until the fluid stops, then remove the remaining bolts and remove the pan. Clean the magnet and the pan with rags and make sure you get rid of any dirt or debris.
6.- OPTIONAL This would be a good time to install a drain plug, Autoparts stores sell kits for this task.
7.- NOTE the position of the filter and remove it (it is important to note the position since sometimes it can be misaligned and that can cause problems too).
8.- Lubricate the seal of the new filter with transmission fluid and install it in the transmission, make sure it's properly seated.
9.- Install the new transmission pan gasket on the pan, you can use some sealant to hold it in place.
10.- Install the pan on the transmission and tighten by hand all of the bolts.
11.- Tighten the bolts to specified torque (in case you have a torque wrench) to 106 INCH Lb (12Nm) in a "star-pattern" sequence; if you don't have one just tighten the bolts enough so you don't chew the gasket, this will cause leaks again.

In case the pan gasket has gone bad it can be the source of your leak, if that's your case your problem should be gone after this. The other source of leaks I know of is the seal between the torque converter (situated between the engine and the transmission) and the transmission itself. It happened once to me, but it was because the guy who rebuilt it made a poor job, that's why I don't think this can be your case...

Oh by the way, there are no dumb questions; the fact that you are willing to learn and fix your van puts way higher than average people :biggrin:, how can that be dumb? ;). Just as an example my neighbors call the technician to have a light bulb replaced... :loser:

Best regards,

Oscar.

PS. Just in case your transmission can also be known as AX4S

Windstar,

Good to hear that you're getting somewhere. Don't be terrified that your tranny is low. It does have some miles on it and frankly they all leak a little bit. Be concerned if it's leaking a quart a month or something like that. I'd simply add some fluid and see what you get.

As mentioned in an earlier post, make sure you get a funnel for the job. They sell specific funnels for filling transmission fluid. The dipstick comes out, the funnel goes in the dipstick tube and you add fluid. I suspect, given what you indicated, that you are around 1-2 quarts low. Add 3/4 qt and recheck. (Make you cycle through the gears again, just to suck up any fluid and fill any air bubbles that you may have.) Keep adding until it gets to the top of the hash marks. On older models of the Windstar (1995 for sure), they recommended that you kept the fluid all the way to the top of the hash marks. They fixed the design, but it sure won't hurt to have it full.

If that gets you going, I'd address a change out a little later in the spring. As far as changing the fluid, Olepz, gave a good rundown. I would only add a few notes. It's not terribly difficult, just a little messy. Here are my additions:

1. Loosen all the bolts slightly and then decide which direction you want the fluid to drain out. At that side, loosen and remove several bolts that are next to each other. As you move from that side of the pan toward the "hinge" side of the pan, loosen the bolts from more to less. You'll reach a point somewhere that the weight of the fluid will overcome the attachment of the gasket to the metal and the pan will start leaking and then pour. I'd like to tell you exactly how it happens, but it can leak just a bit and then gradually increase or it can go "pop" and start pouring quickly. Just have a drain pan ready (and if you are in your driveway, some cardboard under the drainpan to soak up what doesn't make it in the pan)

2. Use some car ramps or jackstands. You'll need to be under the vehicle for a little while and you simply cannot do this job without having some clearance. The more room, the better.

3. When you remove the pan, do make sure that you clean the magnet. It won't even look like a magnet because it has gunk all over it. It'll be sitting in the bottom of the pan in a circular impression. I used paper towels and wiped down the tranny pan to get it nice and clean.

4. When you pull the filter (which is approximately the size of a small book), It has a rubber Oring that must come out with it. If will often stay in the tranny and the filter comes out. When you go to stick the new one it, it won't fit because the oring is still in there. Just make sure it comes out. You can reach in with a finger and pop it out.

5. Pay attention BEFORE you pull the filter out how it is in there. It has a ring sort of device that it snaps onto tubes on the bottom of your tranny. Just look at where it clips onto those tubes so that when you reassemble, you'll put it in the same place. (pictures work good for this)

6. My tranny has a reusable gasket that is very good. I suspect yours does too. If it is black rubber and has two ridges on each face, its quite a bit better than any cork gasket they'll sell you. Just clean it up and reuse it.

Other than that, it's an easy job. I didn't install a drain plug in mine, but they do exist. I just can't speak to the ease of install. Frankly, I've always wondered why cars aren't made with tranny drain plugs and external filters, like the oil.

Good luck and I hope you get it running again. If you do, post another query about how to change your oil. You'll be surprised at how easy it is.

Mark

Hi, Mark and Oscar! Thanks, MARZBX157.

Thank you for the very detailed instructions on this

Oscar "PS. Just in case your transmission can also be known as AX4S[/quote] Yup, I found that out in another post somewhere while googling transmissions. I wish there was just ONE name for these darn things, LOL :rolleyes:

When you said, "9.- Install the new transmission pan gasket on the pan, you can use some sealant to hold it in place." What type of sealant do I use?

Mark, when you said, "4. When you pull the filter (which is approximately the size of a small book), It has a rubber Oring that must come out with it. If will often stay in the tranny and the filter comes out. When you go to stick the new one it, it won't fit because the oring is still in there. Just make sure it comes out. You can reach in with a finger and pop it out." OK, should I replace the Oring while I have it out or keep the old one?

I will be parking her until next Tuesday when I can do the work. Until then, I will be doing extensive reading/learning. If I have questions I'll post them. If anyone else comes up with something please post it.

I know that sarge_saarti told me to take her to the shop (I still might do that) but I really want to try this myself first just to see if she gets fixed. If she leaks again/problems don't stop, THEN I will take her in to the shop.

Today I am going to order:
1. trans filter
2. trans fluid - I want to have 6 quarts on hand to be safe
3. trans funnel
4. trans O ring

Of course, I will be taking photos with each step so it is really going to take me a long time. Big Burgundy and I are scheduled to go drive to Michigan on the 19th...we'll see. :rolleyes:

Any type of RTV gasket sealant should work, it's optional so you don't have to be dealing with the gasket from moving out of it's position; if you install the bolts at each corner on the pan you can use them to hold the gasket in place and you don't need to use the sealant. If you do use sealant it will also help you to prevent any further leaks ;).

It is a good idea to do it yourself first if you have no inconvenience with it, the shop will do the same and will charge you the labor which, as far as I know, in this case is expensive. If you still have problem then take it to the shop.

Best regards,

Oscar.

Hi, Mark and Oscar! Thanks, MARZBX157.

Thank you for the very detailed instructions on this

Oscar "PS. Just in case your transmission can also be known as AX4S Yup, I found that out in another post somewhere while googling transmissions. I wish there was just ONE name for these darn things, LOL :rolleyes:

When you said, "9.- Install the new transmission pan gasket on the pan, you can use some sealant to hold it in place." What type of sealant do I use?

Mark, when you said, "4. When you pull the filter (which is approximately the size of a small book), It has a rubber Oring that must come out with it. If will often stay in the tranny and the filter comes out. When you go to stick the new one it, it won't fit because the oring is still in there. Just make sure it comes out. You can reach in with a finger and pop it out." OK, should I replace the Oring while I have it out or keep the old one?

I will be parking her until next Tuesday when I can do the work. Until then, I will be doing extensive reading/learning. If I have questions I'll post them. If anyone else comes up with something please post it.

I know that sarge_saarti told me to take her to the shop (I still might do that) but I really want to try this myself first just to see if she gets fixed. If she leaks again/problems don't stop, THEN I will take her in to the shop.

Today I am going to order:
1. trans filter
2. trans fluid - I want to have 6 quarts on hand to be safe
3. trans funnel
4. trans O ring

Of course, I will be taking photos with each step so it is really going to take me a long time. Big Burgundy and I are scheduled to go drive to Michigan on the 19th...we'll see. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Windstar,

1. They sell various types of gasket sealant. Some people call it RTV. Look on the back of the package and it'll tell you the applicable uses. There is an entire aisle in most auto parts stores for sealants. If you have a reusable gasket, the sealant is primarily there to just hold the gasket in place while you put the bolts in. I put a few spots every 4-6 inches just to keep it in place. As I mentioned though, I have an excellent quality reusable gasket. I believe it's factory and yours will probably have it too. It's black rubber and has to raised ridges that go all the around both faces of the gasket. A small screwdriver can be used to center the bolt hole on the gasket once you start putting the bolts on. This brings up another tip for success. Don't tighten any of the bolts until you have them all in place. Turn each bolt about 2 turns and then insert the next. When you are done, you're pan will be resting on the untightened bolts. Then you can go ahead and tighten them in. It'll be tedious, but tighten each about 1/3 tight and then go all the way around tightening them about 2/3 tight and then one more time all the way. There are specs on tightening them, but you probably don't have a torque wrench. Make them snug, but not break your arm tight. Too tight on gaskets creates gaps, bends the pan lip and defeats the purpose of the gasket.

2. On your Oring question. When you order the filter, it'll come with the oring. If you ever found yourself without the Oring, I guess it would be ok to reuse, but you should have to worry about it. Just use the ring that came with the new filter, lubricate with your finger dipped in tranny fluid and install. Remember to check out the way it's installed before you pull it out. It'll just make it easier to make it go right back in there.

Good luck.

Mark

It is highly likely the transmission pan gasket is rubber clad metal and is re-usable if cleaned. You will need no sealant of any kind if this is the case.

Windstar,

Good news. I changed the tranny fluid today in a 2004 Ford Taurus with the same tranny as yours. I took your lead and took pictures of the process. I'm beat down right now so I'm going to post the pics tomorrow, but I've included pics of several key steps and some of the stuff that I mentioned in my earlier posts.

Mark

P.S. It was just as messy as I remembered it.

Thanks for the info, way2old

Windstar,

Good news. I changed the tranny fluid today in a 2004 Ford Taurus with the same tranny as yours. I took your lead and took pictures of the process.

Good for you, Mark! Awww...thanks for suggesting that I could lead in or at ANYTHING! LOL!

UPDATE: Saturday (yesterday) I went thru the gear things again like I did the other time but this time I checked it in Park and got the same results. So I added the 1/4 bottle of tran fluid while she was still running and it started spewing white smoke out of the tailpipe and the front park of the engine. At first I thought "well maybe I wasted some on the hot engine while I was taking the funnel out"...soooo...I purposely poured a little on the engine to see if it would smoke and no smoke. Was I supposed to add the fluid with the engine off?

I checked the dipstick and the level went up the stick to about 1/2" away from the crosshatch area.

Well I drove it anyway to see if the same problems were still there (after adding the fluid) and it got a little better. It doesn't lose speed as much (used to be from 60-65 down to 40 immediately) Now it just goes from 60-65 down to 55 but it goes back up again.

No you can add fluid whenever the engine is running or not.
I don't know why it smokes, it shouldn't be.

When you drive with overdrive off, the problem still happen?
I don't recommend you drive too much when it slips. It could permanently damage the clutch bands and the damaged part could move within the fluid and damage other trans parts.
But test it few times will not hurt.