I've made my decision on engine

wow, you had me going there for a minute. i tell my wife tires cost $25 ea, brakes $30 and a new engine runs around $450. this seems to work just fine.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Devin
My only problem is that my wife talked ME into build a factory Five Cobra, I was talking about it costing about $25k, and she was all for it, and still loves the car, however, it turned out to be a $45k FFR. VERY NICE. The after a 2 years of track events we/I decided maybe the Cobra wasn't the safe/right package to keep doing this. So the Panoz came along. The Cobra stayed for shows and fun street driving. Now the Panoz is fun, but with the stock 5.0, is slow. So it was a toss up for a 347stroker, a 351W stroker or an LS2. Well it seemed like a good trade, almost the same price each way, plus -100 lbs with the LS2 and a way cooler engine. And now, just like the $25k / $45k Cobra, the Panoz is growing. So things will be fine, we just need to chat about the need for more feed for the Panoz. :)
Any time you guys are down here give a call and we can get together. The Palm Beach International Race Track (Moroso Speedway) is just 20 miles away and holds a track event almost every month or so and its been up graded with new pavement and the ability to run the drag strip, the road course and the go kart track all at the same time.
Paul

Well, I am down to one last missing component and the motor will be ready to drop in -- in need of a set of long tube headers....

anyone have a set they want to loan me?

Well, I am down to one last missing component and the motor will be ready to drop in -- in need of a set of long tube headers....

anyone have a set they want to loan me?

$1000 and I'll build you a set ;-)

Besides you dont need headers to drop the motor in :-p put that bish in!

$1000 and I'll build you a set ;-)

Besides you dont need headers to drop the motor in :-p put that bish in!

1K - dayum, that's a bit excessive, don't you think?

1K - dayum, that's a bit excessive, don't you think?

ok, for you... $999

she's in:

39108

Thats perrrdy. Congrats:runaround:


David

thanks David - all is looking like June @ CMP will be reality.
Just need to finish all the stuff up before we head to Europe for 3 weeks, come back and get the final tune and off and running.

OK, so I pulled the switch on the dry sump today, called AVIAID and ordered up their complete dry sump system. Should have it in a week or so. Engine, clutch and trany are ready to go in, motor mounts are finished, trans mounts have been cut and re-welded 2" aft.
ALos am working the long tube header system from the Speedway Motors LS header kit. Had to build a mock up engine mounted in the car so I could cut and mock up the pipes, as they have way too much inlet and exhaust length for this set up. I'll post some pictures when I'm finished (assuming the picture are not just a bunch of pipes in the trash can) :runaround:
Wish me luck.
Paul

OK, so I pulled the switch on the dry sump today, called AVIAID and ordered up their complete dry sump system. Should have it in a week or so. Engine, clutch and trany are ready to go in, motor mounts are finished, trans mounts have been cut and re-welded 2" aft.
ALos am working the long tube header system from the Speedway Motors LS header kit. Had to build a mock up engine mounted in the car so I could cut and mock up the pipes, as they have way too much inlet and exhaust length for this set up. I'll post some pictures when I'm finished (assuming the picture are not just a bunch of pipes in the trash can) :runaround:
Wish me luck.
Paul

Paul - yes, send pic's - you are on par with me -- all I have left to do are the headers and dry sump once the engine is broken in properly.

These are exciting times!!

OK, so I pulled the switch on the dry sump today, called AVIAID and ordered up their complete dry sump system. Should have it in a week or so. Engine, clutch and trany are ready to go in, motor mounts are finished, trans mounts have been cut and re-welded 2" aft.
ALos am working the long tube header system from the Speedway Motors LS header kit. Had to build a mock up engine mounted in the car so I could cut and mock up the pipes, as they have way too much inlet and exhaust length for this set up. I'll post some pictures when I'm finished (assuming the picture are not just a bunch of pipes in the trash can) :runaround:
Wish me luck.
Paul

Great to hear you are making progress Paul.

What diameter are the primary pipes on the headers you are using and what length will the primaries be after you cut them back? The sort of target primary length you would want to aim for would be somewhere between 30" - 36" depending on cam duration and rpm that you want to run at.

If you go shorter than this you would not get the same benefits as the header would effectively be tuned for a higher rpm range. This is why I took the LH pipes across the engine and wrapped the RH pipes around themselves. This was to get the primary length out to 36" so the header was tuned for the rpm band I was looking for (strong torque and power in the 3000 - 6000rpm range).

To give you an idea, with the sort of cam duration that most of us probably run (225 - 235 degs at .050" lift), a 26" primary length is tuned for peak power at 7500rpm whereas a 36" primary is tuned for 5500rpm. That is how much difference 10" makes to the tuned power range.

Hope this helps.

Kel.

Kel
You have some good information here, I would love to see your bundle of snakes exhaust, must be a thing of beauty. So, I need to shoot for 30” or so, that is going to be a challenge, I’ll need to measure my pipes I cut last night to see where I am. My current plan has the headers exiting the engine going straight out toward the car side (~12”), making a 90 turn and going down (~12”) and then making another 90 turn aft (~8-10”) into the 4 into 1 - 3” collector, than a 90 degree 3” tube back toward the side of the car and intersect the 2 ½” exhaust pipe going to the muffler. I might be able to lengthen the 8-10” tube and shorten up the collector to see if I can get the 30-36” tube length, as I would like to keep the power down below 6500RPM.
I’m running 1 ¾” header pipes to a 3” collector. Tim Cole at CompCam spec me a cam of [email protected] ([email protected]) Intake 248 @.050 exhaust, with a 108 seperation., .624 and .615” lift. I haven’t got a carb yet,but assume it will be a 750HP like I have on my Cobra.
I’ll do some measurements tonight and see what I can do about gting the 30-36” header length.
Thanks
Paul

Kel
You have some good information here, I would love to see your bundle of snakes exhaust, must be a thing of beauty. So, I need to shoot for 30” or so, that is going to be a challenge, I’ll need to measure my pipes I cut last night to see where I am. My current plan has the headers exiting the engine going straight out toward the car side (~12”), making a 90 turn and going down (~12”) and then making another 90 turn aft (~8-10”) into the 4 into 1 - 3” collector, than a 90 degree 3” tube back toward the side of the car and intersect the 2 ½” exhaust pipe going to the muffler. I might be able to lengthen the 8-10” tube and shorten up the collector to see if I can get the 30-36” tube length, as I would like to keep the power down below 6500RPM.
I’m running 1 ¾” header pipes to a 3” collector. Tim Cole at CompCam spec me a cam of [email protected] ([email protected]) Intake 248 @.050 exhaust, with a 108 seperation., .624 and .615” lift. I haven’t got a carb yet,but assume it will be a 750HP like I have on my Cobra.
I’ll do some measurements tonight and see what I can do about gting the 30-36” header length.
Thanks
Paul

Paul, to calculate the desired primary length the formula to use is;

P = ((850 x ED)/rpm)-3

Where;

P = primary pipe length
ED = 180 + number of degrees the exhaust valve opens before bottom dead center
rpm = the rpm that you wish to tune the header for

I used 5600 for the desired rpm for my engine and got peak power at 5700 and peak torque at 4400. This suits endurance with a std Ford block but you will most likely want to go higher given cam specs and engines ability to take more revs.

1 3/4" primary pipe size and 3" collector sound right for your engine. Not so sure about 2 1/2" exhaust / muffler. I would use 3" particularly given the rpm your engine will be capable of. I have used dual 3" pipes on a 5.0 engine with cam specs at 255 / 260 @ .050" that made 460 rwhp and it did not kill low rpm torque. With the extra capacity of your engine you could carry the bigger pipe.

Kel.

Kel
OK, looks like with a little more work I will be able to make the 36" tube length. Will require a few more bends and welds but should come out looking good. My current exhaust pipe and muffler is 2 1/2" dia so I guess I'll up grade it to 3" after I get the headers finished and can see where the new pipes want to be. I got the first 30" of header cut and welded up, turned out not to be too hard to do, the wooden engine mock up has been a big help fitting the pipes.
Thanks for the info, I'll shoot some pictures this week end.
Paul

Kel
OK, looks like with a little more work I will be able to make the 36" tube length. Will require a few more bends and welds but should come out looking good. My current exhaust pipe and muffler is 2 1/2" dia so I guess I'll up grade it to 3" after I get the headers finished and can see where the new pipes want to be. I got the first 30" of header cut and welded up, turned out not to be too hard to do, the wooden engine mock up has been a big help fitting the pipes.
Thanks for the info, I'll shoot some pictures this week end.
Paul

Paul, are you using a single plane or dual plane manifold on the engine? If single plane you could shorten the header to around 30" to take advantage of the additional hp up over 6000rpm, if dual plane then go longer at say 33 - 34" as the engine will start to drop of around 5700 - 6000 with the dual plane anyway. The 750HP carb sound like a good choice.

Kel.

Kel
I'm running a Vic Jr single plane intake on the LS2 motor.

So, just coolant lines to run and I believe it's ready to fire up:

(Yea, I know, the shorty headers - HAVE TO GO - )

39163

So, just coolant lines to run and I believe it's ready to fire up:

(Yea, I know, the shorty headers - HAVE TO GO - )

39163

Looking great Devin. Glad you got in first on the shorties as you know it breaks my heart to see them on there strangling that capable engine!!

Is the engine in its stock location Devin or is it set back (maybe the pic has me fooled)? If it is set back Devin, are you going to re-weight the car as with cast iron blocked donk, you may have gone beyond 50/50?

I tested the car in the weekend and the stalling under brakes has now gone. I made 3 changes so am unsure which did the trick;

1 - put tube across bowl vents,
2 - dropped the rear float level a smidge, and
3 - went down a couple of jet sizes on the primaries

Another wee mod that I have done is to add a pair of discrete canards to each side of the nose cone. Didnt lose any speed down the straights, the car is not picking the inside of the nose up in highspeed corners as much and lap times have reduced. If interested I can post pics.

Kel.

Please post pics.

Looking great Devin. Glad you got in first on the shorties as you know it breaks my heart to see them on there strangling that capable engine!!

Is the engine in its stock location Devin or is it set back (maybe the pic has me fooled)? If it is set back Devin, are you going to re-weight the car as with cast iron blocked donk, you may have gone beyond 50/50?

I tested the car in the weekend and the stalling under brakes has now gone. I made 3 changes so am unsure which did the trick;

1 - put tube across bowl vents,
2 - dropped the rear float level a smidge, and
3 - went down a couple of jet sizes on the primaries

Another wee mod that I have done is to add a pair of discrete canards to each side of the nose cone. Didnt lose any speed down the straights, the car is not picking the inside of the nose up in highspeed corners as much and lap times have reduced. If interested I can post pics.

Kel.

Devin
You are about 5 days ahead of me, but I'm 1/2 way through the long tube headers, should have them done by the weekend, then it add in the dry sump and button her up. I can't wait.
Your engine looks great with those trick valve covers.:smile:
Paul

please post pics.

ditto

NZGTRA17 please post pictures of Carnards + info on them. Did you make them? if so material etc.

Paul, are you making your own long tube headers?

Eric
Yes, I'm making my own long tub headers. I started with a "weld them your self" 1 3/4" dia set for an LS engine from SpeedWay Motors. The the tubes are 4 basic setions, 1)straight out from the engine toward the wheel, 2)90 degree bend and down, curving so they come together in a nice 4 pack, 3)then 90 degree turn aft and then doing a 4) 4 into 1 3" collector. I also am adding 2 90 degree 3" bends to the collector to match up with the 2 1/2" existing exhaust pipes and mufflers.
I built a wooden mock up of the engine in the car because the #1 section of the header tubs are way too long and I didn't want to cut too much off at the engine end while trying to custome fit the pipes. Then I discovered the #2 section of the tubes are about 1 1/2 inches too long ( because of the frame interferance) and had to cut and reweld the down tube sections, this was a little tough because each tube is coming down at a different angle so getting all of them to match up at the correct length was a little tough, then I had to cut the #3 sections to match with a 4 into 1 90 degree bent collector, I also got from SpeedWay Motors, and thats where I am right now, making that weld connection.
I hope I can post some pictures of the finished product this weekend, assuming they dont end up the the trash. :banghead:
Wish me luck.
Paul

Paul would love pics as i am doing the same thing

Eric
I finished the drivers side tonight. Check out the picture. Now weld in the 90 degree bends to the mufflers and finish the right side.
Paul

Eric
I finished the drivers side tonight. Check out the picture. Now weld in the 90 degree bends to the mufflers and finish the right side.
Paul

Nice - want to sell them? :rofl:

If I got paid at my day job work rate, they would cost more than the f^&%ing car. :lol:

Eric
I finished the drivers side tonight. Check out the picture. Now weld in the 90 degree bends to the mufflers and finish the right side.
Paul

Paul, they look great!

I wonder if the GTS 351 headers could be used with some modification and a different flange welded on.

Pretty sure they will. I swear someone else said the flanges on the 5.0 and 351 were the same.

With a little cutting and weld I was able to salavage some parts of the stock Panoz pipes and was able to make nice connection from the headers to the mufflers. Check out the picture.:biggrin:

I'm impressed. Nice work.

Thanks
This has to be a $1,000,000 set of headers for amount of man hours it has taken, but it was fun. And the best part is it didn't end up as a bunch of pipes in the trash can. :grinno:

great job....your feet might be hot:eek7:

Very nice work!