NOT the end of my '93 metro...Life after death! RINGS

I am starting another thread concerning my '93 Metro - continued from
"That's the end of my '93 Metro..." - this one for the Rings and Cylinders.

I got the head back today...that part is essentially done.

About the ring replacement.....I ordered the rings, the Rod Bearings, the oil pan seal,
(and the Head bolts) from Schuck's today. $110
If you want to pay the "Web Site Price", you have to take a printout of the
site showing that price when you go in to buy the thing.

They have a three-stone cylinder honing tool for $24. Replacement stones are about $8.
I can get the ring compressor there for $12.

Now comes - how to remove the "Ridge" around the top of the cylinder that
is left from ring wear on the cylinder walls?

I cannot push the piston out past that ridge w/o first removing it, can I?
I can just feel the ridge - I don't think it is very thick (but WTF do I know?)

Is removing the Ridge anywhere near as critical as honing? Since the rings
stop at where the ridge starts, it must not be a critical issue....no?

Can I use the honing tool to remove the ridge first - then maybe replace the
stones with new ones....?

NAPA (Hideously high Prices!) wants $65 for the ridge removing tool.
Can I rent such a tool? Can I remove the ridge some way w/o a special tool?

The damned tools (which I will probably never use again) are costing as much
as some of the parts!

A ball honing tool requires the exact size (???) of the cylinder and costs around $40 each at NAPA....
I'll stay with the 3-stone jobbie at Schuck's...!

DoctorBill

PS - I want to thank everyone who has been contributing to these posts.
Your help and explanations are invaluable!
I am sure many people will benefit from reading these things. People like
me who don't know their Butts from a hole in the ground about engines....

Sounds like a fun project and one I may be forced to do at some point as my car has 215,000 miles on it now.

I can't answer every question but as for the ridge, you should remove it with a ridge reamer. Perhaps you could rent one for a day.

The danger of forcing the pistons past the ridge is that you could damage or break the ring grooves. I have ssen them break if the ridge is too large.

Let us know how things go as I am waiting for your end results.

Tell me about using the Ridge-Reamer fellows!
Never used one or saw one used before....

Sun Rental has one for $11 / 24 hours....They cost 5x that to buy, so I'll rent.

I'm told they scrape the ridge off - yow! That sounds like maybe I could
easily screw this part up.

Can one control how much is scraped as you turn it ? Carbide knives ?

Do you use a drill to turn it or a wrench ?

How is it placed and adjusted - will I get instructions when I rent it or have
to finger it all out by my lonesome ?

How will I know when I've scraped enough ? Don't want to over-do it !

I saw one internet forum message where a guy said he just reamed the ridge
down with a mototool and stone and then hand sanded with emery cloth.

Either way - if any scrapings or grit falls down into the cylinder onto and
into the rings, that will scratch the cylinder wall when I push the pistons up
and out - yes !?

How do you catch the stuff scraped off and keep it away from the piston, etc ?

So, I need some advice on this part....

Once done, is pushing the piston up and out difficult ? Where do you push from ?

Anything I should watch out for or be especially careful of ?

DoctorBill

Do a google search for how to use a ridge reamer and you will find some info.

They are turned with a wrench and have a cutter that trims off the ridge as you turn it. It is necessary to check the progress as you go and stop at the point the ridge has been removed.

I have not used one in years but I remember it being a lot of work.

There is a school of thought out there that if you have a large ridge then you obviously have a lot of cylinder wear.

This might indicate that more than a ring job is required. Without measuring the bore diameter in the normal cylinder area with a micrometer you will not know how bad your cylinders are and if a shop rebore might be needed. Of couse that means taking the whole engine out.

Good Luck

Yes, metal will fall into the cylinder. Your best bet is to stuff a rag into the cylinder to catch most of it. And take a vacuum to it to get the rest out. The reamer should be driven by a box wrench or a ratchet. Adjust it to the proper size, lock it in, and lift it up to the ridge, and give it a couple spins. Not very hard. And when you lock the bore size in right, there's almost no chance you'll damage the cylinder. Be careful with it, it can scrape up the cylinder walls if not used right. I always have my blocks done at a shop. And yes, if the ridge is really bad, it's oversize pistons and time to bore out the cylinder. Your new rings will never seal properly if it's badly worn.

Chances are you won't need a ridge reamer to remove the pistons, there is usually not much of a carbon ridge built up there.
Do Not use a three stone hone, if you are just doing a ring job. 99% of these engines do not require an overbore, merely new rings, bearings, and seals. Use a Ball Hone, available at most tool places, and some auto parts stores. These leave a very fine crosshatch pattern when used properly, without the scoring that can happen when using a three stone hone.
If there is excessive cylinder wear, it is easier to get a machine shop to take the block out to the first oversize, although in the many engines I have done, that was only required once, when the engine had been sitting, and had rusted the cylinder walls.
When honing, be sure to use wd-40 or some other light oil lubricant for the honing process, it also will allow you to see the crosshatch pattern that you are leaving, a little more clearly than otherwise.
When installing new rings, take the time to clean the ring grooves properly, preferably with the proper tool. if the proper tool is not available, use a piece of an old ring, and just lightly scrape the carbon out of the grooves.
These engines are extremely easy to work with in this department, with a re-con like this generally being done entirely in one day.

Good luck with it

Thanks for the info prior to this post...!

I went into Schucks this morning to buy a new Thermostat.

Just for the Hell of it, I asked if they rented Ridge-Reamers....They do !

Cheap as Hell, too ! $6 for 48 hours. A local rental place here gets $11/24 hrs.

So I saved money there. Schucks. Who would have guessed?

I bought a stone honer - $23. Schucks doesn't rent them....
Now "pind" says not to use one......

This is interesting.

I asked the Head Service "Boss' some questions and noted that he contradicted
quite a lot of the advice I am getting here on this forum.

I asked him about that - "Ask ten people a question about engines and you'll
get ten different answers....maybe five of those will be correct."

So....any votes on my using this 3-stone honing tool or taking it back and
trying to find a "Ball Hone" I can rent....?

The Ridge-Reamer is quite a heavy little device.

What is curious is the edge that reams looks and feels as dull as my thumbnail.

Should that edge be sharp? I would think so!

DoctorBill

I've always had good luck with the stone honing tools. I own one myself. The "bottle brush" hone will give a decent hone, but never a really nice one that the stone hone will give ya. All the bottle brush one does is scratch the hell out of the cylinder randomly in a swirling motion. Be careful with the stone though, it'll start taking out metal REALLY quick if you don't keep moving it up and down.

OK....I'll go with the 3-stone Honing Tool I bought.

How long does it take to finish one cylinder's honing?
How can you tell when enough is enough?

How fast do I move up and down with it?

Any electric drill? I have a 600 rpm Black & Decker (Powerful drill) and several
battery jobs that spin much faster (?rpm).

Honing Oil - WD-40 huh? Motor oil is too thick?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I took the cutting bit out of the Ridge-Reamer (R-R) and looked at it.

From the top down (as it fits into the R-R's holder) the side that should cut
when it is rotated to the right is quite dull or beveled. If you change sides
(rotate the bit) and reinsert, the same thing. The sharp edge is the left
edge and one would have to rotate the R-R to the left to have the sharp
edge meet the cylinder ridge. The bit looks new, also.

I don't get it. Why would they make a dull edge to ream metal?

I will do as they say, but I don't see how this thing can slice metal off the
surface of the cylinder wall's top edge....more push it back down I suspect!

Do I need oil present, a cutting oil or motor oil?

I am so close and (knock on wood...) nothing has gotten boogered up yet...

DoctorBill

DOCTORBILL;
I'd make a slight amendment to "Ask ten people a question about engines and you'll get ten different answers....maybe five of those will be correct." I'd say maybe five of those will be correct according to what the question asker expects to hear. Think back to your younger days - ever do a job the "wrong way" or with the "wrong tools" and have it come out right? It can be done.
Anyway you can get good results with the 3 stone honing tool, personally I like them better as I believe they spread out the work area on the cylinder surface so you aren't so subject to making low spots lower as you might be with the ball hone. Do be careful when you are moving it up and down inside the cylinder so you don't go so far down as to go below the bottom of the cylinder or bang a stone into the crank (It'll probably happen but try to keep the # of times to a minimum as you will damage the honing stones).
As for what oil to use they make a honing oil (which works well) but I'd say anything of low viscosity would work - you will want something thinner than regular motor oil but thicker than WD40. The idea is that the oil will pick up and float away the glaze the stones are cutting off the cylinder so that it doesn't remain in place and become grit that can damage the cylinder wall. Cutting oil might also work and yes I'd use some when you do the ridge reamer it will make it easier.
For honing I'd vote for the corded drill with the lower rpm you aren't really trying to remove much material just create a good mating surface for the new rings. Squirt some oil in the cylinder in two or three places, place the hone in the cylinder letting the springs push the stones against the cylinder walls, start the drill and move the hone up and down in the cylinder. Start at an down/up speed of perhaps 1 second per down/up stroke. After a couple of strokes stop, wipe off the cylinder and look for the intersection of the scratch marks the hone is making on the cylinder wall you will want them to be somewhere between 45-60 degrees. Adjust your down/up speed until you get the desired angle. Each time after you check how you are doing squirt some new oil in there before you fire it up again. As for how much to hone; look at the cylinder when the area where the piston travels up and down is covered with the cross hatching you have just made then you're done. It's been a while since the last time I honed cylinders; I did it the "wrong way" with the "wrong tool" in the wrong environment (it was outside and below zero), the job came out fine and the engine is still going some 75K miles later.

Great, Idmetro.... What I was looking for in how to hone...I will be careful!

I drained the oil and took the bolts & Nuts off of the oil pan.
Why both? - I would have thought one or the other, not both!

Anyway - there was some red hard rubbery (mixed with blue softer rubbery) crap
between the pan and the block - and it had them glued together so damned
hard that nothing would dislodge the pan! Man! It was stuck on there something fierce!

RTV Silicone Rubber no doubt...Strong stuff.

I checked - no nuts or screws left. And I was worried the pan would fall off
in my face! lol

I couldn't even get a box cutter blade edge between the pan & the block!

Never seen such tenacious glue or rubber. I'll bet whoever put this pan on
didn't have a rubber seal and used some industrial rubber "stuff"...

Couldn't pry even a corner away from the block with a screwdriver!

I didn't want to bend the pan by reefing on it with some wedge.

I got out my trusty old, well used propane torch and gently softened the red rubber GLUE.
Finally came loose.

But the pan wouldn't come away!

Turns out that there is a plate over the Flywheel that the oil pan goes into!
I removed the Flywheel plate (two bolts) to find two more oil pan bolts!

Got them off and off came the oil pan.

Big wads of red RTV Silicone Rubber hanging off inside the pan and all over the
place! Looks like this:

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/8422/oilpanflywheelcy4.jpg

WTF does Schucks sell Oil Pan Rubber Seals then ? I ordered one! No groove for a seal! Merde! $7.

What a mess.....

DoctorBill

Progress....

I finally got the Oil Pan off.... Took some pictures...

My working area. Now you know why the weather controls my progress...

http://img325.imageshack.us/img325/4086/workarea1qx4.jpg

This is all the RTV goop that was hanging inside the oil pan!

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/6421/oilpancrapar8.jpg

This is what the underside of my engine looks like (2 pics by flash)...

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1183/crankshaftflywheel1cx5.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7231/crankshaftflywheel2tv2.jpg

So, tomorrow I will Ream the Ridges off my 3 cylinder walls, then go pick up
my rings, rod bearings, and oil seal (that I don't apparently require!) and
begin the Fellowship of the Rings..."my precious..."

Tomorrow I cut metal...."Please Lord, don't let me screw this up!"

Up to now it has been like squeezing pimples and picking scabs.
Tomorrow is Heart Surgery....up scaled somewhat.

DoctorBill

DOC;
Your tool organizational scheme looks awfully familiar. My work area is a bit upgraded though - it's actual concrete....
As for cutting the ridge on the cylinder just do a little at a time it won't matter if you make multiple passes to get it done. It's easy to remove material but damn hard to put it back. Go slow and you'll be jsut fine.
Make sure you get all that RTV crud cleaned up, you don't want any of it remaining inside the engine where it could get sucked up plugging an oil passage and leading to premature failure of one part or another. If you get a rubber oil pan gasket I'd use it the !@#$%ing RTV only seem to make it possible for people who can't properly assemble things to fill the gap they left behind when they did it wrong. RTV should be used sparingly... unlike what is typically done.
I have maintained for years that all auto designers should first have to spend 5 years working in a shop maintaining the very vehicles they are expecting to design - I think this would solve a lot of the foolish things they do that cause grief down the road when you try to work on a vehicle. I'm guessing that the nuts/bolts on the oil pan are there so you can put the oil pan in place and thread the nuts on the existing studs then screw in the bolts; probably a bit easier than laying on your back trying to hold the pan in place and get the first bolt to go in the hole....
Good Luck!

Make sure you remember which rod cap goes onto witch rod, and also remember which direction they're facing. There's a little arrow on each of the rod caps, so it should be pretty easy. The bearings have a habit of popping out of the rod, and off the rod caps, and sticking to the crankshaft. be very careful, and don't let them drop to the ground if they do fall off. Make sure they're squeaky clean(and your fingers) when you re-assemble them and put some engine building grease on. As old as your engine is also, this may be a good time to replace the thrust bearings on the crankshaft. They can be replaced with the crank in-place, you just have to pull the main cap to get to them.

How nice.....I went out to ream the ridges in my 3 cyl - 1 L Metro engine..

The Ridge Reamer I rented from Schucks is just ever so slightly larger that the
cylinder walls! It is a 3 inch "Powerbuilt" Ridge reamer.

The cylinder walls measure between 2 7/8th and 2 15/16ths inch in diameter.
The Ridge-Reamer is 3 inches in diameter!

The bore and stroke in the Metro is 2.91 x 3.03 according to the manual which
fits with my measurement.

Called Schucks and that is THE only RR they have. Seems when I looked on
various Web Sites, that 3 inches is the normal size RR.

Called a Rental Place - his will go into a cylinder less than 3 inches he thinks...
An Ammco 2100...Looking it up on the Internet now...
Yes - goes down to 2 9\16ths inch diameter....

I'd like to use some really bad language right now....70 miles round trip getting the Schucks RR.
Now 70 more getting this one plus 70 more to return it.

Ignorance is an expensive thing.....

DoctorBill

PS - picked up my rings, New Head Bolts, and oil pan gasket (cork!) in Spokane this morning.
The Rod Bearings won't be in until Weds the 6th of Sept.
Wish I had tried this RR yesterday - I could have had the right one right NOW.

I got the smaller RR this evening. Took my daughter to cheerleading some
football game and went on in (30 miles) and got the smaller job.

How long does this reaming process take? I've gotten almost all the ridge down on
all three cylinders, but one tiny edge won't go away. I've spun this thing
maybe 100 rotations and it doesn't seem to be taking off any more metal.

I am using a spray on oil as lubricant and wipe the walls down often.

How tight do you tighten it? This one had three floating edges that ride in the
cylinder. One edge has the bit. It is sharp like a bit should be.
But the bit floats on some rubber arc underneath it.

I am tempted to try scraping this hairthin ridge off myself as I don't want to
screw up the cylinder. The damned thing "Chattered" once and left little nicks
near the top edge of #1 cylinder. I went backwards to remove the edges of them.

Should the top of the cylinder be perfectly smooth as you run your finger
up and down near the top? That hairline ridge is felt....

I suppose the Rings would be stopped by even a hairline bump like that.

Should I stop, or continue reaming tomorrow morning?

The RR leaves marks on the cylinder wall, but I think they are just in the
glaze, not making scratches. The three edges touch the cylinder walls
and hooks on top keep it correct vertically.

It is an AMMCO 2100 ALUMINUM Ridge Reamer.

An observation - the ridges seem thicker to the touch on the left side
of the cylinder wall than on the right for all three cylinders.

After reaming, the right side of each cylinder is smooth but that hairline is on
all three on the left side.

Maybe some photo's tomorrow in the daylight.

Hope I haven't screwed the pooch.......

DoctorBill

PS - Schucks gave me a total refund on the other one that was too big - it didn't fit the Metro's Cylinder.

I cant keep silent

Im so glad you are fixing your geo.

I hope you learn a lot and gain confidence in yourself. And inspire other geo owners lets not forget.

I could find you a perfectly runnnign metro for way under 1k on the used market. I might even sell mine as I said but I might just keep it.

I would never recomend rebuilding the heads to your geo metro. Its a horrible idea. the value of one running fine is just so low. And I read somewhere in the middle here the project might fail, you invested in piston boring tools lol.
I mean I wish you all the best but I wish I hadnt been silent earlier. And I want to warn other metro owners ok. When the engine dies, ditch it. I mean im literally torn between changing the brake pads on mine or just buying another one I found for 700 and driving this one off a cliff. and i know how to change brake pads lol and it runs excellent.

youre not going to save 1000 in fuel over the life of your new headed geo. Theres some serious accounting flaw going on here.

What DoctorBill ends up with will be a car that runs great and the satisfaction of doing an engine overhaul by himself. That's priceless.

I've been trolling these threads since I bought my first Metro, and I've concluded that these cars are undervalued if they aren't rusting away. Big problem in Northern Climates.

I don't think its going to cost much more if any doing the head and rings vs buying a replacement motor. In the end, you will probably have a better motor that will last longer than buying a used JDM or other GEO motor. You may have just inspired me to rebuild mine when it finally dies vs. getting a replacement engine. Your going to be very satisfied when you get this puppy working. Thanks Dr Bill.

Well, Stamar, let's examine this issue of -

1. Dumping a used car that needs fixing and buying another inexpensive used car.

2. Fixing up a used car that you already have.

First choice:

You live in California. Maybe used Metros are a dime a dozen there - the whole
state is Car City...! You must like doing the "search" - I hate it!
You must eschew engine and body and wheel work.....I do too, at my age!

You must not be bothered to drive in a car someone else has pissed in the
corners of. I like to 'customize' my vehicles with my own piss...

You must not be disturbed by the fact that you have no idea what the
mechanical shape of your vehicle is. Not knowing if the brakes are any good,
maybe the oil pressure is low, or the front suspension is weak, on and on.

Your vehicle is just some disposable 'ride' you don't care about... Yes?

Second Choice:

I, on the other hand, like to feel that the vehicle I am in is mechanically
sound. Every single click, hiss, thump, rumble, twang, knock, whistle, etc bothers
the Hell out of me when I own a vehicle....! I have to know what is causing that noise...!

Once I either repair something myself or have it done, I know that I
can count on that part of the car to not fail when I need it.

I suppose it is just a personal lifestyle choice.

I am not critisizing what you told me to do - it is just not my way.

I have had many, many cars. I drive them and keep them in good
mechanical shape if I can afford it. If I can't - I dump it.

I couldn't give a crap what my vehicles look like, however. Looks are not
rellevant to me. Mechanical condition is... If the car looks nice, that is a
bonus, but I won't spend $$ on looks.


I know myself well, and I know that once I get this Head and Rings job done,
I will be listening for every noise (real or imagined) that the engine makes -
for years! But if it runs for 1,000 miles w/o exploding or grinding itself up, I
will know that that engine is probably not going to fail right when it is
the most inconvenient for it to do so.

AND - I will be counting my money on the way to the bank from the
savings on Gasoline at 46 mpg (I hope it goes back to where it was before it died!).

BTW - What the Hell is all this crap about Hydrogen alternate fuel cars about!?
The Geo Metro 1.0 liter 3 cylinder will out out perform any of those hideously expensive
wretched environmentalist loved "Hydrogen-Electric" contraptions!

What we need is a car with a toilet in it. You go out to your car, take a big chili-dog
"Lincoln Log" dump in it and it makes methane and the engine runs on Methane from dump.
You have a "tank" where your family's dumps (include your dogs & cats) are kept nice
and moist and warm to make gooey bubbly methane... Like they do in China now for
their heating and cooking gas.

Just don't get in any high speed collisions! Imagine two of those guys in a big head-on
crash... Wouldn't want to be the paramedics who have to get you out of that
chocolate covered mess!

DoctorBill

Back to specifics -

Here is the tool I reamed with....

http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/7862/ammco2100ridgereamerxw9.jpg

I reamed the ridges...used a ratchet with a long extension so I could spin the Reamer
with my finger. Use a glove on the spinning finger! Used a spray oil as a cutting oil.

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/176/reaming1ps9.jpg

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/6851/reaming2gm7.jpg

http://img429.imageshack.us/img429/861/cyl1postreamout1it2.jpg

I hope I have not overdone this ream job....the cylinder is flat at the top, though.....

This Reamer had either a dull bit or it was not sharpened at the proper angle.
I could spin it and spin it and it just "wore" the ridge slightly - then of a sudden
it would "Bite" and cut like the devil.... Took a lot of turning (hundreds of turns).

Whew! Glad that part is history....

Question One: When one uses the ring compressor to insert the piston with the
new rings inserted - does one compress the rings such that the ring
compressor fits inside of the cylinder and then tap the piston down?

If not, how does one keep the ring compressor exactly over the cylinder not
allowing the piston to pop out before entering the cylinder?

If I do have to insert the ring compressor into the cylinder, then this
tiny ridge may be unimportant. Only that it will want to stop me pushing the
piston out at the beginning....

Question Two: When I am lapping the cylinders with the three-stone lapping tool,
I am supposed to slather it with lubricant (will use ATF from a squirt bottle).

All this crap will flow down thru the cylinder into and onto the crankshaft.
Now that will be bad news... grit and crap (in a fluid) dripping on things
that are supposed to stay scrupulously clean!

What do I do about that?

I plan to wrap the crankshaft connecting rod bearing surfaces with clean
cloths I bought at NAPA and then wrap them in Saran Wrap and Tape them
closed - to protect them.

But still - the idea of all that crap falling onto the Crank Shaft bothers me.

Maybe I'll wrap the entire crankshaft with Saran Wrap so that most
everything coming down goes over it and out on the ground...

DoctorBill

Put some shop rags on all the bearing surfaces, you won't have a problem. I personally would use the shop rags, and then spray the surfaces down with brake cleaner.. then put a coating of motor oil or lithium grease all over it to keep it from rusting before assembly.

As for inserting the piston.. Just wrap the ring compressor around the top of the piston, and let the skirt hang out of the bottom of it. Make sure the piston is facing in the proper direction, place the piston ring skirt inside the bore.. Then, push the piston down until it stops. At this point, you'll want to be pushing down on the ring compressor so it doesn't shift, and the rings don't expand from a gap at the bottom. Take a piece of soft wood or a rubber mallet, and tap the top of the piston, and it will fall right in. But yes, once the skirt is in the bore, you won't have any problems getting the piston in.

Just thought I'd take a picture of the rings, head bolts and pan gasket.

Notice that there are four thin rings that are with the three oil rings.
Somebody miscount...? Or just an extra in case one breaks....?

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1478/ringsboltsgasket1tt8.jpg

Here is a close up of one of the Oil Rings - corrugated !

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/9256/oilringnz2.jpg

Is this so that it holds oil after the engine is turned off ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Why would they make a pan gasket out of cork? Wouln't some newer
neoprene or silicone rubber make a better gasket material?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Chilton Manual and someone here said to get some "Bottoming Taps"
(flat at the end) and clean out all the threads in the bolt holes.

I found that with the rebuilt Head all the threads in the bolt holes for the
thermostat and Distributor were full of crap and I had a hard time getting
the bolts in.

I guess crap falls into these bolt holes and you don't want the bolt "bottoming
out" against a wall of detritus....

Now I have to go find out what bolts sizes I have to buy Taps for.

Head Bolts.... ? mm
Many of the rest are 10 mm.

Suggestions on which size metrics I should buy?

I have a tap & Die set my wife got me for Christmas, but they are not the
"bottoming" kind - all pointy.

DoctorBill

you need 6 of the thin rings. takes 2 per piston, on on top of and one underneath that wavy looking ring that your calling a oil ring, thats actually just a spacer that holds the 2 thin rings apart. make sure that 2 of the thin rings aren't stuck together, you need 6 total. if they are missing you need to return set and get another

My Lord, you almost made me do a 'chocolate pants pizza' there!

Yes, two of those rings were stuck together rings....I do have six of them!

Whew - I saw another trip back to town and a long wait for a replacement set...

Thanks Crvette69....I did not suspect stuck together rings. They are so thin,
they looked like one ring each.

Question comes to mind - why are rings so expensive. I gather that perhaps
they are not stamped out in bucketloads for a few cents each....

Are they common steel or some Neutronium Plasmonated Bozonium metal as in Star Trek?

Also, with that little space between the ends, doesn't a lot of high pressure gas and
maybe gasoline travel around these three ring ends and get down to the oil?

DoctorBill

if you look in your book you will see the end gap for the rings is fairly small. as the engine heats up the rings expand and not much gets past the first less gets past the 2nd etc. as the engine gets lots of miles on it the rings wear and the gap gets bigger, that what causes the smoking. even with new rings a little gets past, thats what turns the oil dark. when you cover crank use paper towels. they say the residue that comes off them is less harmfull than the thread and fluff off towels. you can buy a tap for the head bolts if they are crusty but if you run one of the old bolts in the holes and it turns freely all the way they are probably ok, just blow the holes out with compressed air

When I get all done with this Head Rebuild and Ring replacement job, I will have
to "Break In" the car like a new engine won't I?

I was wondering if I shouldn't oil the cylinder walls after the rings are back in
and let the starter motor run the pistons up and down with the head off to
see if the rings are ok. 30 seconds of running the starter should tell if any
screw-up was done.

If I do that, I can make sure there is plenty of oil around when the rings first
run up and down....I could actually just hand turn the belt pully at first to
make sure nothing is amiss.

Sound like a bad idea or not...?

DoctorBill

Doctor Bill, With all due respect, you're worrying about stuff you don't really have to worry about. Do you think the monkeys they have rebuilding motors at the local Chevy garage take this much care in keeping everything clean and tidy? No. I'm not saying it isn't important, but you seem to be stressing over this. That's why you have an oil filter installed (Fram I see from the pictures, not a great choice, but ok if you change often). The filter will catch all the crap when you first start your new Metro engine up.

You will be so pleased with your rebuild you'll wet your pants. A towel on the seat would be appropriate.

Ooooh, yes! I agree with you sbiddle.....The story of my life.
I just like to know "what I'm up against" before I get there...

Been having BAD allergies and taking allergy pills. Am a zombie right now...
"Fawcett Nose" syndrome. They are cutting wheat now and blowing all sorts
of crap into the air. The mosquitoes and yellow jackets make it even more fun!

Alright ! I went out and took out the first piston (#1) this evening.

Rotated the piston to bottom and took off the bearing cap.

Dumb, jerkwater, fool that I am - forgot to note arrow direction!
Jesus! I am so out of it...dump for brains! Same for the piston itself!
At least I have pictures of #1 from before and I am putting in new bearings,
so I guess I am OK with that. Still - what a jerk!

I put the cap in a plastic bag immediately.

I then rotated the piston to the top and pushed the piston out with a stick.

Here's the thing - No broomhandle in the world could fit in there - A PENCIL
is more like what's needed - a DOWEL of about 3\8 of an inch dia is just right!

I gave it a slight push and out it popped! Actually made a popping sound!
I grabbed the piston top with a paper towel and pulled it out....put it in a
big zip-lock bag.

I then went back and rotated the crankshaft back to bottom on #1 and
wrapped a fresh paper towel (rolled up) around the bearing surface.

Here are pictures:

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/3411/piston11dm3.jpg

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3990/piston12ze7.jpg

Here is what the bearing cap on the piston rod end cap looks like:

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/9739/pistonrodbearingplate1oi3.jpg

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/1492/pistonrodbearingplate2qp5.jpg

If I am not incorrect, the bearings look good. Silver colored. Scratches down
the middle by the oil hole, but not bad - YES? New ones on order from Schucks.

I also bought a pencil thin magnetic base LED light at Harbor-Freight that
came in very handy. I stuck it on a surface and directed it toward where I was
working. Nice to have. A small LED light that goes on your head would
work well also.

I took the top two rings out with a ring spreader ($6) - came out so easily...

But - the oil rings don't have any flex to them - tight in the slots....

How do I get hold of them to remove them? The ring spreader cannot get
any edges to grab onto....

And yes - the rings have very sharp edges. Piston looks good.

Does the wrist-pin ever wear out? It seems quite tight - no play.

I suppose I should remove ALL the pistons and lap all three cylinders at the same time.

Yes - this was easy. I was stressing out for nothing.......! This is fun!

DoctorBill

to take oil ring out find the end on one of the thin rings. using fingernail or small screwdriver just pull end of one of the thin rings out and spin it out of the slot. then do the other thing ring, after you remove those the spacer ring should just come right out. to install the oil rind to the oposite, put spacer ring in first then lower oil ring then upper oil ring

OK ! All is well in Ring Land....

I did as you said and they came out quite easily.

You see, every time I ever read anything about rings (I read my car Manuals),
they admonish one to be careful not to break the rings as they are brittle and
fragile.

Rubbish! These rings are quite flexible. The top two rings came out nicely
using the ring expander. Granted I haven't tried to flex them more than just to
get them out.

But the oil rings are very flexible. Sharp as a razor on the outer edges.

ALSO - how neat! There is a slot behind the oil ring that goes thru to
the inside of the piston skirt on two sides.
That would allow oil splashing around to get to the oil ring and keep it wet...
Cute. Engineering at it's finest....

Man, the ring slots are full of carbon and crap! I see now why one must use
an old broken ring to scrape the stuff out!

Can I soak the piston in a can of Gasoline or would that screw up the wrist
pin...?

I have an Air Compressor - that will help to blow the crap out of those slots.

Wish I could brass-wire polish the top of the piston - but I'm not supposed to scratch it.

DoctorBill

BTW - I was under the impression that the crank-shaft splashed into the oil at the
bottom of the oil pan to keep lubricated. Can't happen in this engine since the oil pan
has a metal plate that covers the oil - big hole in the middle of the plate.
I'll take a picture later to show everyone.

How do the rod bearings and wrist pins get oiled? Is oil squirted on them by some vent
or oil hole I don't know about?

hey doc I would have responded earlier but the forum is giving me a serious case of log off in the middle of a post.

Anyhow, you seem like a very intelligent person so Im going to give you credit for figuring out whats best in your situation.

Ok lets accept both of these things for this situation.

Doc : rebuild the heads

Stamar : drive it off a cliff and buy a new one.

Ok my point is that way more people are in my situation. I think the average person should just figure out the used car market better.

I cant say exactly what the used car market is like in any area. But i suggest learning it before learning to hone your cylinder walls. I think that skill saves you a lot more money over your life.

Well, OK....

I guess that this particular thread is for those who want to fix their vehicles....

Why not start a thread on the finer points of the used car market and how to
get along in it? I'm sure there are a lot of folk who agree with your methodology.

Good hunting...!

DoctorBill

BTW - check your browser and make sure it can set cookies. I have mine to definitely
allow this forum to set cookies.

The Pistons are out ! I scratched their number on the side skirt below the rings
to identify them later... They all have an arrow pointing to the left at the top of the
piston facing the engine as you see it.

I took all three out and the rings are out and I am trying to get the carbon
deposits off the top of the pistons. Like black cement!

I know I'm not supposed to scratch the tops of the pistons, but I have scratched
them to some extent in trying to pick this damned hard carbon off. Should I emery
cloth the scratches away...when I am ready to place the pistons back in the cylinders ?

Am soaking the pistons in Gasoline after I had sprayed the carbon and oil off the
piston ring slots with spray Brake Cleaner..

Here is what my cylinders look like after I washed them out with Brake Cleaner Spray:

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/7233/emptycylindersprehone2op5.jpg

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/9207/emptycylindersprehonedoubleimageif6.jpg

http://img433.imageshack.us/img433/3155/emptycylindersprehone4vm7.jpg

You can see the clean paper towels I wrapped around the crankshaft piston
rod bearing surfaces.

Now comes the honing - someone tell me what to expect, please.

Does honing make a hideous grinding, scratching noise?

How long will it take for each cylinder? I'll squirt ATF as I hone....

What should it look like? Should the cylinder surface be silver?

Once done honing, I will place a new piston ring halfway down the cylinder to check
the ring space where it comes back together.

How can I measure that space w/o special tools? Make a clay impression? ????

Was thinking of pushing a piece of kid's clay into the ends of the ring inside the
cylinder, pulling it out and measuring the impression with my calipers - Huh!?

DoctorBill

Stamar, you couldn't be more wrong. This IS the forum for fixing Metros, not dumping them. DoctorBill will be a better person for having done this. Think of the confidence gained. Is there a value placed on that? I say Priceless! Sure it may be a break even proposition as far as the bucks go, but he will so much more enjoy his "new" metro.

To my way of thinking - everybody who has commented about a used engine price versus
getting the Head rebuilt and Rings replaced (oneself!) are dead wrong!

First of all - we are talking about a used engine for maybe $350 - $400. USED.
It may have 60,000 to 130,000 miles on it. You will not know what condition
the valves, rings, etc are in.... You are gambling that all is well inside that sucker!

If I do what I am doing and it costs me $400, then I have new valves, rings,
piston rod bearings, gaskets, etc....

So, I think one is ahead of the game by replacing these main items versus having
a used engine put in and having to do it all over again in maybe 100,000 miles!

I know what is in my engine now. If I screwed up the job, well then that's my
doing.

But a replacement used engine is just that - used. However many miles used
when you put it in.....

I am supposing that replacing the Head and Rings is not as tough as replacing
the entire engine!

DoctorBill

On this little car, you may be right Dr. Bill. However If I could put a replacement engine in the car and get another 100K, I might go that route. The big question is can you get that many more miles. I have a 99 escort that my daughter drives. The head gasket blew on it at 150k miles and she wound up driving it too long with it blown and locked up the motor. I opted to get a used motor from a reputable shop I had done business with before for $700. It was much easier to just pull the motor and drop another one in. The intake, fuel rail, and exhaust manifold were already attached. Only took me one evening and a saturday to do this. So far so good. After all your posts on the geo rebuild, I believe I can do this as well and will probably opt to do that instead of risking getting a good used jdm engine. I have priced the regular canadian version of the motor and have only found one locally for $650 dollars. They could not or would not give me the mileage on it. I found a 91 automatic with only 29K miles on it for about $600, but I would have to do some creative mechanics to get it to fit since mine is a manual transmission. Thanks for the pictures. This helps me see what your doing and it does not look to difficult so far. Good luck.

couple things. first to check the ring gap buy yourself a set of feeler gauges, should be less than $7 at most auto stores. you can use piston upside down to push ring into cylinder to make sure its square. to hone, if you have a haynes or chiltons metro manual it will tell you how and show what it looks like after your done. on the used jdm engines they are supposed to have 60000 kilometers on them. i always check the oil cap and make sure its clean inside and no sludge before i buy one. of the 20 or so i have installed i have yet to have a bad one. ones i buy cost me $345 and come with a 1 year warrenty. takes me 4 1/2 hours to pull the engine and tranny out, swap the parts over and drop it back in. takes a lot longer than that to rebuild one when you take all the cleaning into account and the running around to get head rebuilt and buy the parts. since i have my own shop i figured it was a lot more cost effective for me to put the jdm engines in for the customers and so far they have all been happy

Excellent Crvett69. Guess I might try the JDM engine after all when my oil sucking motor dies. One question however is why do you need to pull the tranny? I replaced the motor in a 99 ford escort without pulling the transaxle even when the haynes manual said to do so. Can't you just remove the bolts that hold the tranny to the block and remove the flywheel bolts and pull it out? Or is it just easier to pull the tranny with it?

if you have a 5 speed there isn't enough room to slide the engine ahead far enough to clear the clutch. you could unbolt the tranny mount and maybe side it back far enough to pull the engine but i find its just easier to pull the 3 main engine/tranny mount bolts and take it out as a assembly. lot easier to line everything up and bolt it together with it on the ground. i tip motor on timing belt end with flywheel up and then set tranny on from top, much easier, usually just drops in place. on the cars with automatic its easier to pull just the engine and it only has to seperate from the tranny about a inch to clear. if you don't have quite enough room just pull the damper pulley

nonewcars:
Heed crvett69's advice regarding pulling the engine and tranny together on 5 speed cars. It is physically possible to change the clutch without pulling the transmission but I can attest to it taking much longer and being a VERY tight fit doing it without removing the transmission from the car. It would have saved me hours of aggravation (and some skin/blood) had I pulled the two together and changed the clutch outside the car instead.

Make sure that you remove all gasket material on the motor and pan . Don't leave a speck. Replacing a gasket, its important that you place the bolts through the holes of the gasket. If not you WILL have an oil leak. Just something that I learned the hard way. :)
kaufeetime

I am waiting for my piston rod bearings to arrive at Schucks.

Where is my help......?

Nobody answers my questions?

What is honing the cylinders like? How long do I hone? Is is noisy? Grinding?
How do I know when I'm done? What will I see? What should I not do?

The Chilton Manual says squat! Completely useless....
I have been waiting for someone to give me some information!
If this is all one way, why should I bother to post anything?

Come on guys! - what should I expect with this honing process using the three- stone honer?

All you afficianados have done this, why aren't you on here telling me about it?!

What was your experience like when you honed the cylinders?

DoctorBill

Sorry bill :icon16: When I hone, I usually move it up and down the cylinder fairly quickly with the drill on low speed for 10-15 seconds, or until the glaze is gone off of the cylinder walls. Try to make the scratches at a 45-60 degree angle. You won't hear any grinding noise, that's what the honing lube is for.

DOC;
Here's a link to a site discussing cylinder honing http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Service%20Tips/cylinder_bore_refinishing.htm
and one showing some pictures of cylinders after honing http://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/75w_engine_rebuild.htm and finally somebody who has taken it so far as to get SEM photos of a honed cylinder http://www.vms.ei.tum.de/publ/pdf/cirp2002.pdf#search=%22honed%20cylinder%22
There is some noise approximately like working on one of the old pedal type whetstones or sharpening a knife on a whetstone but somewhat increased due to the speed of the drill. My last honing expierence was years ago done outside when the temp was below zero; I could only run the hone for a couple of strokes before the oil would gel then i would have to clean out the cylinder and start again with fresh oil; it turned out fine. I'd clean everything up with an oil based solvent and don't forget the assembly lube and bring your engine back to life with regular oil not synthetic. Synthetic is too slippery for breaking in an engine and getting the rings to "seat" in the cylinders.

This is great reading; very informative and encouraging.
My questions:
Is it a good idea to re-use the pistons? I have at least one with a cracked-up skirt on my car with 180k miles on it. If the answer is no, can you buy new pistons? Where? How much?
My comments:
In my current situation (and with the insight from this very informative post) I think I will fall in between the Doc Bill approach (major surgery on my cylinders + new pistons & rod bearings, which I'm not sure I would exactly "enjoy" in the strictest sense of the word, but I am sure I would truly enjoy having done, but I'm afraid I have no time left for, having just replaced my cylinder head in error, with as much if not more anal, stressed-out, and meticulous care as the Good Doctor), and the Drive-it-off-a-cliff approach.
I expect that I will shortly be purchasing a JDM motor, pulling my engine & transaxle, and putting in the JDM motor & a new clutch and refinishing the flywheel.
I will then think about rebuilding the bottom end of the old engine to keep it as a spare, but I will probably just let it sit since the JDM motor will probably outlast the car here in Michigan. If I have a head problem on the JDM, I will at least have a just-remanufactured head.
Wrench on, Bill.

the JDM motor will probably outlast the car here in Michigan

As a Michigan guy myself, I second you on that. I've had a number of metros rust out on me. Hence, why I just bought a house with a garage. My vert has never been driven in the snow. And I always clean off the underbody, and make sure all is clean and well with it.

Holy Horse Plops, guys!

Exactly what was needed! Now I can go at this w/o sweating it.

I ask this because - why should anyone have to reinvent the wheel each time
they work on a car....?

That is how these Chilton and Haynes manuals treat repair jobs...!

They are written by men who have done the work umpteen times and assume that
it is so simple that nothing need be said.

They themselves were probably shown how to do it by a shop instructor
or another mechanic and don't realize it.
Or some bean counter told them they can't have more than so many
photos, words and pages in the manual....

What seems obvious to them now was an unknown before they learned it (obvious - no?)

So, again, thanks! Those links to photos are great! I tried Googling, but came
up with garbage adverts for car parts....

I am having trouble working under the car...no room for my arms to move.

I have to raise my car higher. I have two metal ramps and two metal jack
stands. I will put the ramps on the back wheels and the Jack stands under
two points just behind the front wheels.

Then I will hone the cylinders. Schucks is supposed to have the rod bearings
in today. I have to take the Harbor-Frieght Ring Compression Tool back
(it is too big - 3" to 7") and get the smaller one at Schucks for $13.

So far so good....Knock on Wood.

I worry that when I start the engine up, I'll hear screaming and grinding.

Yesterday a wind storm whistled thru here and blew away all my cardboards
that I lay on over the dirt.... Hope no abrasive crap blew up into the
crankshaft parts.... This living out in farm country sucks pondwater!

DoctorBill

OH yes...and BTW - I do have a set of Feeler Gauges! I had forgotten about them!
I almost never use them and forgot I had a set. Now I can check the rings
for fit after I hone the cylinders...

Now here is controversy for you!

Idmetro's links to the "Honing Process" are very nice!

I will repeat them again:

http://www.hastingsmfg.com/Service%20Tips/cylinder_bore_refinishing.htm
http://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/75w_engine_rebuild.htm
http://www.vms.ei.tum.de/publ/pdf/cirp2002.pdf#search=%22honed%20cylinder%22

Here is a quote from the first one!

"The single most critical factor of any cylinder refinishing job is the cleaning of
that cylinder after the honing operation.
Proper cylinder cleaning consists of a thorough scrubbing of the block with
hot, soapy water taking care to clean the surface under the cylinder facing
the crankcase. Rinse with hot water, dry, and lightly oil to prevent rust."

Now some of you said - "No water!" This says use soap and water!

In deference to this web site and because using water is SO EASY, I am
going to use hot soapy water and my garden hose to get all the crap out after
honing...

I will slather on some spray can oil after everything dries. That way I can get the
oil into all the crankcase parts immediately.

I bought the following in hardware stores (not automotive stores!)
3-in-1 Professional High-Performance Lubricant Spray (with a tube to direct it) - very good!
Super-Tech White Lithium (Made for Wal-Mart) - (with a tube to direct it)
Gunk Chain Lube for Cycle and Farm Equipment - (with a tube to direct it)
All of these actually spray thicker oil - not the thin, evaporating type in WD-40....!


BTW - What is "Assembly Grease"?
Someone mentioned "Lubriplate" I cannot find small tubes of Lubriplate anywhere!

Here is an old tube I had from my father's toolbox!
http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/2366/lubriplatezu1.jpg

I gather using grease is bad since it would prevent oil from flowing thru the new
bearings after first startup. Any suggestions on this?!

DoctorBill

DOC;
After some consideration I'll amend my no soap and water for engine cleaning stance but I would refrain from using a hose as you could manage to get water where you don't want it and/or can't easily get it out. Just my preference...
As for assembly lube here is a link showing the Lubriplate product I have used in the past. http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductModelDetail.cfm?ProductModelId=1660
The tube is larger than what you show but it's very cheap insurance for your work. I believe that just regular grease would be too thick and impede the flow of oil whereas the motor assembly lube is designed to provide initial lube then dissolve and flush into the oil. In the past I have purchased this assembly lube at NAPA.

I still stand by the no water policy :). Water and soap won't do any more than wd-40 and a rag to wipe it out with will. Also, I use white lithium assembly grease. It completely dissolves in oil, and it's very easy to work with. It's consistency is that of whipped cream cheese. And it provides a very good barrier for initial startup. I lube the cylinder walls with it too when I install the pistons. I also put a little on the wrist pins, lifters, and any other surface that needs some oil at startup.

I kinda figured that Lubriplate wasn't sold in small tubes anymore.

It is nice stuff for lubing small parts of mowers and such. I saw the big honker
tube in auto-stores!

I also figured that assembly lube must be something that doesn't impede the oil
flow..... kinda follows.

I fully intend to do the following - once all is reassembled and ready for starting
the engine, I am going to leave out the plugs, get the battery charger on and
just run the starter for a few minutes to let all the surfaces run without any
load on them!

That way, the oil can get pumped thru the new stuff and no bearing surfaces
will carry a load other than spinning. I'll change oil after two hundred miles, also!

"Sounds good to me....Duuuh!"

DoctorBill

HEY SchlockRod - go to Schucks web site:
http://www.partsamerica.com/Default.aspx
set to your model, year and go to engine parts.
They sell pistons - I think they were about $45 each...

Thanks, Bill, for the piston source. I may get some and do a ridge/hone/ring job, but I think reading about your project is way more fun than I would have actually doing it. So in all likelihood I'll do the JDM engine thing.
Any guesstimates on # of novice shop hours for JDM engine swap with new clutch vs. new pistons & rings + ridge/hone and new rod bearings? let me know what you all think... I need to decide what to do.
Bill, I was taught early on while doing some valve train work on a Corvair that engine assembly lube is GM EOS (engine oil supplement) or equivalent, with equivalent being STP oil treatment. That's what I've always used, including recently when I put the reman head on my Metro; I dumped it all over the cam & lifters before putting on the cam cover.
Another important thing I thought of that you'll want to think about, which will no doubt start another wave of opinion-mongering:
When you put in the head bolts, you need to do the right thing with respect to cleaning the holes and oil vs. no oil. When I torqued my head bolts, some of them acted all grabby-like, like a creaky gate hinge. What the effect was on accuracy of torque (actually the key thing is clamp load on the mating surfaces, a whole other discussion but you at least need accurate & proper torque), I don't want to think about.
I chased all the bolt hole threads with WD-40 and a tap (not a bottoming tap; I don't know if that's needed), then I blew them out, then I cleaned them all out with pipe cleaners and brake cleaner, then I blew them out again. I was thinking later that a gun-cleaning bore brush would probably be better. BTW, an oily rag and a big magnet are good tools to use in areas that you're trying to keep bits of metal out of on jobs like this.
But the main question I (and I think you also) have is: do you oil the head bolts or not? I went by the #*^%&!!??>~!! Haynes manual, which said nothing about oil; therefore I used none. Now I'm thinking that maybe I should have used oil. All I know about this is:
a) Oil definitely affects clamp load. A torque applied with oil will give a higher clamp load than the same torque w/o oil.
b) My mercedes-Benz Diesel (a whole other universe due to way higher combustion pressures and irrelevant, perhaps) FSM says to oil the bolts.
Any advice on oiling head bolts for Bill & me, anyone?
Thanks.

Yes, you ALWAYS oil the bolts before you put them in. I personally dip them in motor oil and then drop them in. Before you put the head on, run a thread tap through the block. All the torque from the old headbolts can distort the threads in the block. The thread tap will clean them up so your torque wrench isn't measuring the force you're using to fight bad threads too.

I always oil any bolt (or conversely any nut) that I am putting back onto
any machinery...better is axle grease!

If fact, after the experience of putting new brake shoes on the Suburban I had
several years ago, I now use Permtex Anti-Seize Lubricant on things I cannot
afford to have stick.

My old Suburban 4x4 needed new pads up front. I could not for the life of me
get the screws loose on the left side caliper. I actually stripped the bolt head
all to Hell trying to get it to loosen. Didn't have room & angle to get at it!

Finally went to the shop I normally frequented for the Suburban and had them
loosen it. Of course they used the old air-impact-hammer with an impact head
on it. I had to buy new bolts for that caliper.

I used Anti-Seize on that and all subsequent Bolts & Nuts on Cars & Trucks.
(Rhymes!) Anti-Seize appears to have powdered Aluminum in the grease.

I think that if the hydrocarbons (oil or grease) leave the area or are burned up
or boiled off, the powdered Aluminum, which remains behind, lubricates the
threads and lets them move.

Now I suppose I will hear ten people tell me not to use Anti-Seize on head
bolts....

I intend to buy some bottoming taps today - if my damned piston rod bearings ever
arrive at Schucks! - and some small brass tubing at the local hobby shop so that
I can rig up a tiny vacuum tube to suck the re-tapped hole out when done.

BTW - What is that Head Bolt size - 10 mm ? I guess I'd best invest in a bolt thread
identifer plate....

DoctorBill

PS - SchlockRod...are you going to rebuild, buy a used engine, or do both...?
I am confused by what you wrote.............

Unbroken old rings work well for scraping the carbon off the top of the pistons. Scratches are not a problem.

Wash the block clean like you would wash dishes. Use a soft sponge or brush, not Scotch-Brite. Wash all the grey away that you can any where you see it inside the block. Your paper towels will give you the "white Glove" test.

Piston ring expanders are out because they put more stress opposite of the gap. Roll the rings on as a spiral without spreading them any more than neccasary. Oil the ring grooves with motor oil. Use motor oil on the cylinder walls, not assembly lube. Assembly lube will hold dirt and iron, taking longer to wash away when the engine starts as the rings and cylinder walls wear a bit when the rings seat. These are ring manufacture instructions.

Rod bearing tangs go on the same side when you bolt the connecting rod together.

Bolts should be lightly oiled and on engines that thread into the waterjacket (not your Geo) the threads require sealer and a dab under the head of the bolt. Do not drip oil into the bolt holes because hydraulic pressure will be created that will affect torque and even split the block down the length of the threads.

Do you understand Torque To Yield specs and tightening procedure for your head bolts?

Before you bolt the head on, clean and inspect your PCV system. The PCV system maintains lower pressure inside the engine than outside which will reduce oil leaks and improve your fuel mileage. Clear every passage from the PCV valve to the intake manifold.

Why metric threads are superior to USS and SAE. Have you noticed how in most cases a metric bolt is very difficult to loosen yet you are able to easily remove them with your fingers after loosening one half turn. Metric threads are self locking when they are torqued to the correct torque.

All threads require clearance between the threads. Metric threads require much higher thread clearance tolerance to lock at the desired correct torque. The amount of clearance and the pitch of the threads affect at what torque the bolt will self lock.

The numbers on the head of the bolt identify far more than how strong the bolt is, they identify the clearance spec. Taps and dies can not compensate for varios clearances.

All torque specs are with clean lightly oiled threads.

geozukigti, do you have a Baptist minister in your family?

SchlockRod is correct that the real factor is equal clamping force accross the mating surfaces and gaskets.

If you can use a wire brush like on a new battery post cleaner to clean the threads in the block, and wire brush the bolt threads you will not loose any metric thread advantage. Bolts should easily turn all the way into the block with light finger pressure.

Useing a tap and or die or over tightening will very likely change the clearance of the threads. If the bolts do stick after cleaning then a tap may be neccasary.

GM EOS isn't the same as STP. Smells and pours different. Both are good for cams and lifters Have you seen GM EOS recently? I haven't seen any in years. Don't use a lot of STP. One can of STP changes viscosity of 5 qts of SAE 30 into SAE 40. This effect is even more undesirable in smaller engines. Use the motor oil recomended in your owners manual.

I finally have everything I need to finish.

I bought a 2.75 Oz tube of Sta-Lube "E.P.Anti-Seize Engine Assembly
Lube with Graphite and Moly" from Schucks. $5
My Rod Bearings came in - ITM standard. $25
Got a smaller ring compressor there, also. $11 Goes down to 2 inches.

Bought 2 cases of Oil at COSTCO ($18 per case!) and a thread sizer set at
Harbor-Freight. $4 Been wanting that thread sizer for ages.

As to bottoming Taps - I decided I'd try something.
For the Head Bolts - I have the old ones.
How about I grind down 1/3 of one entire side such that the ground down
part will scour out any crap in the threads of the hole?
Then I remove the bolt and wipe off the crap from the flat ground down side....

My idea......should work fine!
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4320/oldbolttapgj9.jpg
A real "hot-shot" shop person could grind a "groove" down the length!

That ought to work for any bolt - just obtain the various sizes and keep them
in your toolbox.

Waddaya tink a dat...? Ain't I a geneeus or what?

As to putting the Head, Exhaust and Intake Manifolds back on - what is recommended
for the Gasket Compound for each one? I have a small bottle of black "Form-a-Gasket"
Gasket Compound that has a brush in it. But that can't be the stuff for all three
gaskets - no?

DoctorBill

PS - OFF TOPIC
I believe in passing on good information.
My wife suffers from bad headaches - she's married to me!
I got her something annoyingly advertised on TV. Click on this link to package photo.
http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7671/headonpackageoa2.jpg
The damned stuff killed her headache in 30 freaking seconds!

I don't know how good of an idea that is bill. That old bolt is a stretched bolt, and can just tear the threads in the block up. They may look the same, but a few thousandths of stretching on the old threads, and having them cut into the block is a bad idea, that's what the tap is for. You can ruin the block with a "tool" like that. Your bolts might torque down correctly, but the threads could be damaged, and the bolt might eventually back out.

And "justsaygo" no, there's no bapist minister in my family, but thanks for your batism reference to dipping bolts in oil, it was very clever of you to point out such an obvious connection to oiling bolts and religious practices. Oh yes, it was very helpul to the thread too! :loser: And yes, I let the oil drip off the bolts for a few minutes before I install them, I don't throw them in with 6oz of oil on them, the excess oil would drip between the un-clamped headgasket and gasket surfaces. Not to mention it would create a hydraulic lock inside the bolt hole and make it a pain to get the bolt to torque down properly.

Oh, and no the bolt grade does not have anything to do with the thread's tolerance. The bolt grade has to do with the tensile strength of the bolt. All metric bolts are made to a specific tolerance for it's specific thread. Some cheap bolt made in china is not going to be on par with a proper graded bolt, that's for sure. But it's not the grade that makes the difference, it's the material and the process of manufacturing it.

Bill, I think your home made thread chaser idea is genius at work and that grooves like a tap would be an improvement. Let us know how well it works, I am a bit skepticle. You can't hurt the threads in your block if you are only useing your fingers without a tool. The threads on the bolt don't stretch permenantly because nearly 80% of the load is distributed accross the first 3 threads and the remaining load goes to the rest. The area between the head of the bolt and the 1st thread into the block will have 100% of the load and that is where the TTY bolt stretches permenantly, probably the threaded part of the bolt that doesn't reach into the block is where all the yield will be.

What kind of gaskets do you have? Who made them? Post a picture of the intake and exhaust gaskets. What does your can of Permatex form-a-gasket say? 3 or 3D?