Pure sports cars vs. ricers

[N321Q]

Around where I live in SoCal, I see these silly looking lowered Hondas and Acuras running around the street, and it just makes me laugh. They look absolutely ridiculous, and they defeat the whole purpose of owning Hondas and Acuras. Honda makes awesome cars...they are economical and super reliable, but when you do a bunch of modifications to a Civic, it's no longer a practical vehicle...instead it sounds like a $18,000 weed-whacker! I never understood the logic behind spending $12-13,000 for a car, and then spend $6-7,000 to trick it up. It sounds like s**t, and you can't even handle dips without having to slow down and hold up traffic. If you are going for the power, shop around and get something that comes with a lot of power, like a Z28 or a Cobra, both are very respectable, mean performers. I love it when my E30 pulls up alongside of a lowered Civic weed-whacker with Kanji stickers all over it. It'll most likely beat me in speed, but I know I'm cruising in style in a classic car that possesses the panache and class which a ricer will never even come close to having. They served their purpose when "Fast and the Furious" was being filmed, now they need to be pushed off of cliffs...one by one.

[Hudson]

I personally can't stand the terms "rice" or "ricers" referring to cars or people. I think it's arogant and juvenile.

Modified compact cars are an artform unto their own. They're in the vein of early hot rods which were also detested in their time. Early hot rods (even some "muscle cars") had stickers all over them, which today the "anti-rice" movement think this adds "theoretical horsepower." Owners knew inthe 1950s, 1960s, and now that it's just decoration.

Some of these modified cars are quite impressive. Many of them take much more intelligence to modify than the "traditional" muscle cars. Anyone can put in a new camshaft or bore a cylinder out with the proper instruction and tools. It takes a little more know-how than that to program a computer...granted, some people have other people or "off-the-shelf" software to do it, but it's just a higher level of engine modification.

Once the "old school" people realize that the "new school" are just after the same end product (cool cars and powerful engines), this feud should be over. Although, I don't have any faith that the "old school" people will EVER see it that way...too set in their ways (can't teach an old dog new tricks).

I've driven (stock) cars with everything from 48hp to 450hp (maybe more, I don't remember all of the cars I've driven). Each one has its good and bad points. The 48hp car was not the worst and the 450hp car was not the best. I've been in Bugatti EB110s and Jaguar XJ220s as well as Acura NSXs and Ferrari 355s. Having experienced all of these, I would much rather drive a Ford Mustang Cobra or a Subaru Impreza WRX STi on a daily basis. Sure, those big cars were fun...but only in their realm, which is on a track. For regular roads, there are far too many cars to list that are more fun.

If you own your car to impress the neighbors, you purchased your car for the wrong reasons. If you can't be impressed by the work someone else has done to their car (no matter how much or how little) or you're not impressed solely by a vehicle because of it's country of origin, brand, number of doors, engine size, horsepower or torque rating, or the color of it, you're not a car enthusiast.

Open up your mind and you'll see that you've been blind to so many things. Civics can be modified in great ways, as can BMWs. The problems aren't the cars, the problems are with the minds of their owners.

[N321Q]

Okay, for the sake of showing common courtesy, I think it would be more appropriate to call these cars modified imports instead of "ricers." My bad.

Hudson, I agree with you in that cars are an integral part of American pop culture, and that most people use them to incorporate their self expressions and self reflections. And yes, some of those car are probably modified intelligently. But the things that irk me about sharing the road with these tools in "modified" compacts are that you have to slow down with them when a dip is coming up...sometimes they slam on the brakes and catch everyone by surprise. Tru, you're supposed to slow down at dips, but to 2mph?! Also the loudness of the modified exhaust (remember, the amount of noise they put out in most cases is not even worth the amount of power boost they get for their effort and money) bugs the s**t out of everyone who might be asleep at 1:30 a.m.

Also, often these drivers think they are Mario Andretti when they get behind the wheel. This puts everyone's lives, including yours and mine in danger. I have personally seen several accidents caused by modified imports. One landed on its side on my friend's front yard because he didn't slow down in time to clear the dip in front of my friend's house. Fast cars are great, but don't you think they need to find a suitable place to race it? I know if any of these dumbasses hit my car, if I'm still concious, I will get out of the car and beat the living bejesus out of them!

The fact of the matter is, these cars are probably more suitable on the race track. They are completely impractical for daily. I fully support self expression, as long as you're not threatening other people's lives who share the roads with you or you're not waking everyone up in the middle of the night because your car sounds like a weed whacker.

And one more thing...the hot rods of yesteryears were build Detroit tough. The modified imports are held together by snot, have thin sheetmetal and a lot of plastic parts. The safety of the drivers of these cars are also challenged...but I guess it's Darwinism at work.

[hakka]

The thing that bugs me is the fact that they aren't fast even though they (try) to look like it. Believe me, I've met a lot of guys who like imports. When I ask them what mods they've got they usually reply things Mugen Sport Wing or 18" Haikikomo Rims and Toyo Tires. About half of them will say Greddy Exhaust or something like that, which does add power, but its very minimal. Maybe 1/5 of them have realistic performance mods, like cam, turbo, supercharger, N20, etc.

I don't think that it takes more work to work on imports than it does domestics. Usually, whenever I do see a fast import, it is because of bolt-ons like turbos, superchargers, and nitrous. Rarely do I hear of work on the internals. As for chip programming, this may be the only process that is more difficult. I do respect the fast ones, though. As for the slow ones, I'm still going to call them ricers

[gang$tarr]

go right ahead... that's rice, so you call it rice

but you don't call a fast japanese car rice

you are correct

[Hudson]

Again, you guys are missing the point of my rant. "Looking fast" is part of the modification process. "Sounding fast" is also part of it. If it's not fast, that beside the point. Hot-rodders have been doing this for decades. And early hot-rods were built from parts that were cheaper than Civics of today, most notably, Model Ts.

I've read the posts since my "rant" and it doesn't seem like you dislike the cars as much as their owners. There are owners of all brands/types of vehicles that I feel are stupid and a waste of otherwise perfectly good amino acids, but I don't bash on their cars for the stupidity of their owners.

I don't like loud vehicles (ESPECIALLY at 1:30am)...no matter if they're Ford Probes with 5" exhausts (I've got one in mind) or Harley-Davidsons with straight pipes. But it's not so much the cars as the owners who like to "entertain" those of us walking by/sleeping/watching TV/etc. Loud stereos do the same thing to me. I love my music, but I don't expect everyone else to do so.

It's not the cars, it's the owners. Car enthusiasts can appreciate all cars for what they are (or, sometimes, what they were intended to be). But being a car enthusiast mean you have to like their owners.

[Jay!]

Originally posted by Hudson
But being a car enthusiast mean you have to like their owners.

Sorry, Hudson, but I think something's missing in this sentence...

[Hudson]

You're absolutely right....

"Being a car enthusiast DOESN'T mean you have to like their owners."

[hakka]

All of the times I've heard about early hot rodding, the engine was modded first, with appearance mods coming later. I guess they just do it in a different order today. Your point about the owners is a good one. Peace:smoka: ....

[moshe green]

For your info' not anyone can by a BMW and some people like to have the "look" to their cars.
so what if some of them drives civic's - and so what if some of them improve them?

and how the hell sad you cant have fun with your honda ?

should I remind you that honda is on the first place with bmw on the "best engine" makers in the world ???
should I remind you the engine of the s2000 - a 240 hp from a 2 litre engine - and that my friend has a better hp fot litre the the m3 !!!

so please go and do some homework before you speak and waist our time !!!!!

[hakka]

Originally posted by moshe green

...and how the hell sad you cant have fun with your honda ?

should I remind you that honda is on the first place with bmw on the "best engine" makers in the world ???
should I remind you the engine of the s2000 - a 240 hp from a 2 litre engine - and that my friend has a better hp fot litre the the m3 !!!

so please go and do some homework before you speak and waist our time !!!!!

holy crap....not this again. I know that may or may not have been directed at me, but I'm aware the S2000 makes 120 hp/liter. While this is a very impressive statistic, it has nothing to do with real world performance. The only statistic that matters is power/weight. Yes the S2000 has amazing hp/liter, but the power to weight ratio is .08. This is great, but there are other cars that produce better power/weight stats. Take my '79 vette, for example. It uses a low tech 406ci (6.6 liter) engine that is not even fuel injected, but it still produces a p/w ratio of 1.3. Whose is the "better engine"? My point is, hp/liter doesn't matter.
Maybe you should do your homework next time...

Sorry I exploded, I've just argued this point so many times By the way, welcome to AF

[gang$tarr]

Originally posted by moshe green
For your info' not anyone can by a BMW and some people like to have the "look" to their cars.
so what if some of them drives civic's - and so what if some of them improve them?

and how the hell sad you cant have fun with your honda ?

should I remind you that honda is on the first place with bmw on the "best engine" makers in the world ???
should I remind you the engine of the s2000 - a 240 hp from a 2 litre engine - and that my friend has a better hp fot litre the the m3 !!!

so please go and do some homework before you speak and waist our time !!!!!

buddy i think you need to re-read what we wrote

we never said civics are bad, or modding them is bad.. just ricing them, which means things that make the car look fast but don't improve performance. Like just putting a bodykit and big wing on it, that makes it look fast but it slows it down because the added weight and drag produced...

so we're talkin bout the owners who don't care how fast the car is or how well it performs, they just care how "cool" it looks

[Hudson]

Originally posted by hakka


holy crap....not this again. I know that may or may not have been directed at me, but I'm aware the S2000 makes 120 hp/liter. While this is a very impressive statistic, it has nothing to do with real world performance. The only statistic that matters is power/weight. Yes the S2000 has amazing hp/liter, but the power to weight ratio is .08. This is great, but there are other cars that produce better power/weight stats. Take my '79 vette, for example. It uses a low tech 406ci (6.6 liter) engine that is not even fuel injected, but it still produces a p/w ratio of 1.3. Whose is the "better engine"? My point is, hp/liter doesn't matter.
Maybe you should do your homework next time...

Sorry I exploded, I've just argued this point so many times By the way, welcome to AF

I'm trying to figure out your math. First things first, 406cid is actually 6.7L.

Second, a LOWER power-to-weight ratio is better. I'm still trying to understand where your numbers of "0.08" and "1.3" come from, but your argument means that your car has a worse power-to-weight ratio...and "0.08" would be amazing.

The power-to-weight ratio (usually measured weightower) of the S2000 is somewhere around 11lbs/hp...fairly amazing for a stock production car (especially one priced under $35k). Your modified car is most likely around 8lbs/hp...good (not fantastic) for a modified car.

[hakka]

Sorry about the math, I did the c.i. to liter thing mentally. For the power/weight ratios, I divided power over weight, so higher would be better. The more common way of doing it (like you said) is dividing weight by power, where lower is better. If you did it this way, the S2000 has about 11 1/2 pounds per hp, while my vette has 7 1/2. I know this isn't fantastic, but I paid less than half of what an S2000 would cost at MSRP.

[kris]