1989 Lesabre Noise Driving me Crazy!!

[suzqlar2]

In addition, grab the belt between the alt, and ac and try to move it in both directions. If it moves, you may hear the clank as the balancer outer pulley slips around the rubber. If it does, you have found your problem. By the way, this pulley slides right off after removing the bolt, no puller needed. Not true on newer 3800, starting in about 94.

[kc0nnt]

Mine was the harmonic balancer...

[rustbucket]

Yes, I also agree that it is the harmonic balancer. I took mine off and I could see that the metal arms had been hitting each other. Just to make sure before I plunked down more money, I put a ty wrap around the arms where I thought it was hitting, and the noise was a lot less, so I replaced it and the noise was gone.

[3echo9]

I agree the two possibles are the chain in the tranny or the harmonic balancer. The balancer is easily damaged if taken off or put on wrong. Look over the passanger fender down at the balancer at idle. Does the balancer wobble? Manually push the throttle up to increase RPM's. Does the sound and wobble go away? If yes..I think you have your answer.

[auto trainy]

I would tend to go after the chain in the tranny,very common.

[89T Type Chick]

Just a little heads up for anyone that seems to be having similiar problems with the metalic rattling noise in their older Lesabres. I had the same noise come from mine and I could not detect exactly where it was comming from because it kept echoing throughout the engine bay. I feared that it was internal because I tried tightining everything and checked the pulleys, etc., but there was nothing to be found.

I had a feeling it was the timing chain because my '89 T Type had just recently hit 150,000 miles and I know that around 130,000 miles and above that you should strongly consider changing the timining chain regardless of the fact if there's noise or not. I had also noticed my gas milage slowly growing poor and the T had lost it's pick-up BIG TIME. These signs, along with the rattling at low RPM's (not noticable while I was driving though), had me thinking it was the timing chain and, sure enough, the mechanic said I was exactly right. The chain was definetly getting ready to go. So, I had them go in and put a new chain, gears, cam button, etc.

$400 and a day later, my T was back and badder than ever! It was the best money I'd ever spent because I noticed a dramatic difference in acceleration in my car. The pick up that it once had when I first bought it over 3 years ago was definetly back and I noticed a great improvement in gas milage. So, if your Lesabre is at or above 130,000 miles, I strongly suggest getting the chain replaced in order to prevent more seriouse problems to your motor in the future. For those of you who wish to do it yourselves, there's a great write up availabe at lesabret.com.

~Thanx, Mary

[the_doctor]

I had the exact same rattle on my 89 lesabre @ 165,000miles. Sounds like metal on metal, VERY LOUD! Took it to the buick dealer. It was the harmonic balancer. The part was $260.83. With labor and everything the total was $356.88.
Hope this helps

[plainsman]

My 1995 LeSabre used to make a noise similar to what you describe. Using a stick I tracked down the source as the airconditioning compressor. Cost me about $400 to have it replaced. It solve my noise problem.

[cklink]

I'm glad you are here talking about the same problems as I'm hearing on my 95 LSS. Diamond57 describes the sound of my motor to the tee and Malibus experience with it is encouraging and seems very logical in my situation.

I was in traffic and felt bad for the guy in front of me until I realized it was my motor making the sound. The rattling/knocking problem came on suddenly and has the characteristic "kerchunk!" at startup and shutdown. Anything above 1100-1200 RPM renders the motor silent. Elimination of the supercharger, waterpump, power steering, a/c and idlers by systematic belt removal convinced me it wasn't an accessory and is crank pulley load related. Power steering and A/C are loads that exist on separate belts and can be applied at will and will affect the severity of the sound. Even without ANY belts on the motor, the "kerchunk" is there on startup and shutdown.

I can also see why an idler pulley would fail after running the motor this way for thousands of miles (if one could stand to). It seems the idler closest to the crank (about 3" away) pulley is getting a pretty good workout when the rattling is present. The rattle can be felt through a socket wrench applied to this tensioner.

I'll pull the balancer tonight, check it and post a reply when I verify this being the problem.

Thanks for your help,
Chad

[piewagn]

Could be the balancer. Though, I've rarely seen them go bad. The 3300's had the problems with the balancer. It sounds like the guts in your catalytic converter are coming apart. Sometimes it'll sound like a nut in a tin can. Very common for this year vehicle.

[cklink]

Just an update for anyone curious. I had a bad rattle in the accessory area of my 95 Olds 88 LSS with the supercharged 3800 at idle. Removal of the belts would still indicate a problem with a clunking on motor startup and shutdown and a rap on the pulley would give a similar sounding "clunk". I eliminated the accessories as being the problem and focused on the balancer. Reading the posts on this site made me comfortable with the diagnosis so I orderd a new part.

Anyway the part arrived, is on the car and the sound is gone. A great thanks to the people out here for the posts and suggestions, they were a great help. I have a phobia about taking the car to the dealer since I'm a cheapskate. The balancer alone was around $250 from a dealership, I would have hated to see the total. Autozone didn't even carry this balancer since it was only used in 1995. I found this balancer online for $86 at a place in North Carolina called venture products. Very cheap and fast. I'd recommend them... ventureproducts.com.

Check my gallery, I posted a picture of the old balancer with it's rotted rubber component that led to the problem.

[the_doctor]

For the past year my ’89 Lesabre has been making a chattering noise that’s driving me crazy! It does it only when idling. However, it’s loudest during the first 2 seconds of start up and the second you turn it off. I don’t think it’s the balancer again. I’ve already been through that and replaced it two years ago (that produced a much more heavy and louder rattle than what I have now). My alternator, idler pulley, belt, and water pump are fairly new. I started the car with the belt off just to eliminate those things . . .still chatters. The exhaust was recently replaced, including the catalytic converter, so it’s not that. I secured the heat shields on the exhaust manifold with hose clamps so it’s not that either. Other than the rattle the engine runs GREAT! It has lots of power. I have a feeling it’s the chain in the transmission that people have been talking about.
Does anyone know how much it costs to have this chain replaced?
Any other ideas??
Thanks,
Matt

[johnd89]

God bless this board!

My park ave '91 with 190k+ miles developed the noise tonight. read thru the posts, went outside and... my harmonic balancer had bits of rubber comig off...

it's very easy to see if you turn by hand the belt in one way or the other. -should I mention the engine shouldn't run when you're doing that??!?-

I'll try to change it asap!
A huge thanks to everyone posting here.


UPDATE:
went to the mechanic because the bolt holding the harmonic balancer was torqued like crazy (more than 400ftlbs!!). Also don't try to remove it without a puller (you need the one with 3 screws).
I'm a happy camper again!
thx again everyone (esp. Chad)

[leadalto]

Originally Posted by johnd89

... my harmonic balancer had bits of rubber comig off...

it's very easy to see if you turn by hand the belt in one way or the otherI'll try to change it asap!

went to the mechanic because the bolt holding the harmonic balancer was torqued like crazy (more than 400ftlbs)

I have the same problem with my ’87 Park Avenue. There’re bits of rubber sticking out just under the pulley and the pulley can be turned by hand in both directions. When turned in either direction, you can only turn it about 30 degrees or so before it clicks on something metallic (not visible) and stops.

When you start or stop the engine, there is clunk noise that is quite loud. When idling, there is a scraping noise punctuated by metallic sounding clicks. At higher RPMs, there’s no noise at all. At first, I could swear that the Power Steering pump had a little guy in it pounding with a hammer to get out. I replaced it. No dice, same noise. Next, I bought a water pump but while I started to remove the old one, I saw the small pieces of rubber sticking out of the crankshaft pulley. That’s when I found that the pulley could be turned by hand before hitting some stops.

I’ll return the water pump since the old one isn’t leaking but after researching how to remove the CS pulley, I don’t think my air tools will loosen the bolt or that I can muscle it myself. There are some AC pipes that get in the way of doing it from the top of the engine even with a pipe extension on my bar. Now that I know what the problem is and that I’ll have to take it to a mechanic, I wonder what the ramifications are of driving the car the way it is. By the way, when the serpentine belt is off, the engine sounds great. No noise at all coming from anything.

Not knowing how the balancer is put together, I don’t know if the CS pulley will come loose and fall apart or if there is something that holds it together regardless of the rubber damping material. Based on some of the other posts, it seems that some people have driven for quite awhile as they tried to figure out where the noise was coming from. I could not find your picture of the defective balancer which, hopefully would show how it’s put together.

I’d appreciate any help offered since I need to use the car, at least for short trips.

[HotZ28]

The balancer has a locking ring to keep it from coming apart. Of course it is not a good idea to drive it like that, however, I have heard or people driving them for several years without any major ramifications. The balancer goes for around $100.00 and most any shop will install it for less than 100 bucks. If you have the money, do it!