Tamiya acrylics in the bottle.

[mikemechanic]

My hat goes off to those off you who can make this stuff work. I tried Tamiya acrylics again with only dry spray and orange peel. No matter what I try I cannot make this stuff work. I tried the rubbing alcohol/water mix as thinner and the Tamiya thinner with no luck. I guess my airbrush does not like acrylics. Oh well I guess I will stick to enamels and lacquers.

[MPWR]

Can you describe your symptoms better? What are you painting (body/interior/etc)? Gloss or flat? Orange peel is more a symptom of how a paint is used, not the paint itself. Are you sure you're thinning enough? Are you applying light coats? What do you mean by dry spray?

Acrylics are inherently easy to use in airbrushes. The only easier medium is ink. If you're using properly thinned paint (and your airbrush is funtional), I'd be extremely surprized to hear it's giving you trouble. More than likely your problem has a simple solution- if you're willing to work with it for just a bit, we can probably help you with it.

[mikemechanic]

Tamiya gloss in the bottle. Thinned 1:1 with Tamiya thinner. Painting a car body exterior. Airbrush is a Badger 200 spraying at 20psi approx. As hard as I try I cannot get a wet coat, thus drying too fast causing orange peel or sometimes it is dry by the time it gets to the surface causing dry spray.

[Inservible]

which is the distance from the airbrush to the model?
Maybe you are spraying to far away to the model!!

[mikemechanic]

I'd say about 6" approx.

[MPWR]

Originally Posted by mikemechanic

Tamiya gloss in the bottle. Thinned 1:1 with Tamiya thinner. Painting a car body exterior. Airbrush is a Badger 200 spraying at 20psi approx. As hard as I try I cannot get a wet coat, thus drying too fast causing orange peel or sometimes it is dry by the time it gets to the surface causing dry spray.

OK, it sounds like your thinning solution is drying too fast. I don't use Tamiya thinner for this reason- alcohol/water mix gives a much better level of control with this kind of issue. I use isopropyl and plain (preferably distilled) water. I usually mix about 1:4 alcohol:water. The way you determine how much alcohol to mix with the water is as follows- The alcohol will evaporate very quickly when sprayed, leaving a grainy surface or orange peel if too much alcohol is used. Water will evaporate slowly, leading to puddles if too much water is used (not your problem here, obviously). It sounds like the Tamiya thinner is evaporating too quickly for the conditions you paint under (hardly unusual). The best way to handle thinning acrylics is to get a smallish dropper bottle, and mix your alcohol/water in this. I use an emptied contact lens cleaning solution bottle, but a resturant style plastic ketchup bottle or the like is perfect, also. Pour the paint you're using into the airbrush paint cup. Then, squirt in a bit of the thinning solution, maybe an amount a little less than the paint you added. Swirl it around/backpressure your airbrush to mix it sufficiently, and then test spray. I test spray onto old used 3x5 cards (my wife finished grad school recently, so I have plenty!), allthough you can test spray onto any even preferably disposable surface- a piece of newsprint taped up in the back of your spray booth does great. So, is your paint too thick? Add thinning solution. Too thin? Add more paint. Sprays great, but dries too fast (grainyness or orange peal)? Add a bit more water to your thinning solution. Sprays great, but it puddles too much? Add a bit more alcohol to the thinning solution.

Adjusting your spraying distance is another way of adjusting how quickly/slowly your paint dries- and it's the only way if you're using spray cans. Since you have an airbrush, you don't need to mess with this. Find a distance that you're comfortable spraying at, and then adjust your thinning solution as necissary.

Once you find a solution mix that works for you, use it! I mix up a bottlefull every two to three months, about as fast as I use it. I find that one mix will work well for all varieties of acrylic I spray- Tamiya, Gunze, MM Acryl, etc, with no need for adjustment.

For the record, flats are easier to paint (and therefore learn on) than glossies- but this should do the trick for either type. Just remember, a slow, even buildup of alot of thin coats will work and look much better than a couple of thick heavy ones.

Give it a try, good luck!

[Ferrari TR]

While I'm not a Tamiya paint pro, I do have some suggestions.
lower air pressure (12 to 15 psi) , and spray a little closer than normal.
One color I was using had chunks of dried paint suspended in it as well.
I also put a tiny amount of soap in my thinner solution. (a fraction of a drop)

[MPWR]

Originally Posted by Ferrari TR

One color I was using had chunks of dried paint suspended in it as well.
I also put a tiny amount of soap in my thinner solution. (a fraction of a drop)

Could work! A touch of soap helps break surface tension in paint droplets, making them more likely to run together to form a good wet coat. Just make sure you use dish soap (and not automatic dishwasher soap!), as hand soap (especially the bar stuff) tends to have more additives, and so is more likely to leave a film, or not mix evenly with the paint.

[Eyeball Kid]

Is it extremely hot where you're painting? The heat speeds the drying process and may be causing the paint to dry on the way to the model.

This is just a theory, but maybe you could experiment with the acrylic paint retarders that are available at art stores. I've never done it for anything other than art, but it does make the acrylics dry slower. Just a thought. Try it on an old scrap and not your prepared model, of course.

[mikemechanic]

Are you kidding heat. I live in Canada. I usually have to chip the ice off the door to the model room. I will try all your suggestions. Thanks for the help. Mike.

[Eyeball Kid]

Canada? Yikes, come on down to the warm side of the border my friend. We have hockey here and everything.

[mikemechanic]

I'd love to come down. My wife is an American, are they hiring any mechanics down your way? Don't mention the hockey, I live here in Calgary and it's still a sore spot.

[scaleracecars]

Originally Posted by MPWR

OK, it sounds like your thinning solution is drying too fast. I don't use Tamiya thinner for this reason- alcohol/water mix gives a much better level of control with this kind of issue. I use isopropyl and plain (preferably distilled) water. I usually mix about 1:4 alcohol:water. The way you determine how much alcohol to mix with the water is as follows- The alcohol will evaporate very quickly when sprayed, leaving a grainy surface or orange peel if too much alcohol is used. Water will evaporate slowly, leading to puddles if too much water is used (not your problem here, obviously). It sounds like the Tamiya thinner is evaporating too quickly for the conditions you paint under (hardly unusual). The best way to handle thinning acrylics is to get a smallish dropper bottle, and mix your alcohol/water in this. I use an emptied contact lens cleaning solution bottle, but a resturant style plastic ketchup bottle or the like is perfect, also. Pour the paint you're using into the airbrush paint cup. Then, squirt in a bit of the thinning solution, maybe an amount a little less than the paint you added. Swirl it around/backpressure your airbrush to mix it sufficiently, and then test spray. I test spray onto old used 3x5 cards (my wife finished grad school recently, so I have plenty!), allthough you can test spray onto any even preferably disposable surface- a piece of newsprint taped up in the back of your spray booth does great. So, is your paint too thick? Add thinning solution. Too thin? Add more paint. Sprays great, but dries too fast (grainyness or orange peal)? Add a bit more water to your thinning solution. Sprays great, but it puddles too much? Add a bit more alcohol to the thinning solution.

Adjusting your spraying distance is another way of adjusting how quickly/slowly your paint dries- and it's the only way if you're using spray cans. Since you have an airbrush, you don't need to mess with this. Find a distance that you're comfortable spraying at, and then adjust your thinning solution as necissary.

Once you find a solution mix that works for you, use it! I mix up a bottlefull every two to three months, about as fast as I use it. I find that one mix will work well for all varieties of acrylic I spray- Tamiya, Gunze, MM Acryl, etc, with no need for adjustment.

For the record, flats are easier to paint (and therefore learn on) than glossies- but this should do the trick for either type. Just remember, a slow, even buildup of alot of thin coats will work and look much better than a couple of thick heavy ones.

Give it a try, good luck!

You might also want to try a larger tip on your airbrush or adjusting it so more paint flows out. Then play with the pressure a little. Take it to 15 PSI. Paint mix is only one of a several parts. If the paint is drying too fast and you have already thinned it than you have too much air pressure, too little paint flow or are too far away. It sounds like you have too little paint flow to me. Adding water only screws with the delicate mix of the paint. Adding water softens the paint and does not allow it to cure properly. Most people who add water also complain about how long it takes to dry to polish and how it never hardens.
Never add water to tamiya acrylic. Always use tamiya thinner with their paints. Their thinner contains anti foaming agents and additives to help the paint flow. The paint manufacturers have rather expensive and highly educated chemists on their staff that design these products. You would be better off using the knowledge they have imparted into the paints and thinners than using a backyard bubba special thinner or additive.

[MPWR]

Originally Posted by scaleracecars

You would be better off using the knowledge they have imparted into the paints and thinners than using a backyard bubba special thinner or additive.

Backyard bubba? Bit of a cheap shot there mate, don't you think?

I detailed my methods above because they heve worked for me, constantly and consistantly, year after year, model after model after model- with consistant, excellent results. I've tried the proprietary Tamiya thinning solution, as well as isoproply/water, and have been unable to discern any difference in performance between the two, either in spraying, or in the behavior of the paint afterwards. I've found Tamiya paints to be very polishable, regardless of what was used to thin them when spraying. I have found acrylic hobby paint produced by all the manufacturers I mentioned above in general to be a remarkably flexible and forgiving medium.

I recognise an respect that your opinion and/or experiences differ form mine. As such, I will not call you names for expressing your differing opinions. It is of course the nature of this forum to welcome the expression of different opinions and experiences, for the enrichment of the modeling community.

I would, however, have assumed that you might be equally carefull about digging other members here, particularly as you are representing your business by posting with your usename. I have ordered from you before, and have found your service to be agreeable- but in the future, I can certainly send my money elsewhere.

[scaleracecars]

Originally Posted by MPWR

Backyard bubba? Bit of a cheap shot there mate, don't you think?

I detailed my methods above because they heve worked for me, constantly and consistantly, year after year, model after model after model- with consistant, excellent results. I've tried the proprietary Tamiya thinning solution, as well as isoproply/water, and have been unable to discern any difference in performance between the two, either in spraying, or in the behavior of the paint afterwards. I've found Tamiya paints to be very polishable, regardless of what was used to thin them when spraying. I have found acrylic hobby paint produced by all the manufacturers I mentioned above in general to be a remarkably flexible and forgiving medium.

I recognise an respect that your opinion and/or experiences differ form mine. As such, I will not call you names for expressing your differing opinions. It is of course the nature of this forum to welcome the expression of different opinions and experiences, for the enrichment of the modeling community.

I would, however, have assumed that you might be equally carefull about digging other members here, particularly as you are representing your business by posting with your usename. I have ordered from you before, and have found your service to be agreeable- but in the future, I can certainly send my money elsewhere.

I did not intend it as a cheap shot. No offense intended either. Simply a "slang" intended to be humorus term for other than recommended practice. The term obviously does not translate well and I should not have used it. I would say that the editor of Tamiya model magazine uses the best "second" alternative to Tamiya thinner. Windshield wiper solution. Very inexpensive and it contains alcohol and anti foaming agents etc... It also contains a huge ammount of water. the cheaper the solvent the better because it contains less additives. Same goes for rubbing alcohol. The cheapest you can buy contains nothing but alcohol and water while the more expensive products contain lanolin and other additives that can screw up a good paint job. I do appologize for offending you. It was not my intent.
David