The Phoenix is not Dead ?

[Crvett69]

did you use the same gasket you used the first time and did it use oil or spit it out everywhere like everyone seems to think it will?

[Woodie83]

Originally Posted by doug7x

Yours is a geo....they started putting the bow tie on them some time after '95,...BUT...my '91 XFI (& my '95) has the Geo emblem

You can also find them called Holden Barina, Maruti Cultus, Subaru Justy, or Pontiac Firefly. Doesn't really matter, they're all Suzuki's. The place to find the original gasket is in an original engine, even what the dealer stocks now could be tainted by aftermarket mistakes.

Those two holes are for blowby gases, the oil drain goes through holes on the other side, but these cars have a lot of blowby at high speed and the if those holes are too small, it has to come up through the oil drain holes, thereby impeding the oil drain.

Lots of folks have had their rebuilt engines do the infamous Metro "oil phart" and after addressing this mismatched part, had it no longer. My 89 XFI (a car the manufacturer says doesn't exist) burned the valves at 50K miles, a problem the factory blamed on too thick oil [10W-40] and too small lifter drain holes. Right after I got it back from the dealer, it had the oil phart problem if I drove it 70 mph or more for five minutes or more, never once did it before. When rebuilding it at 165K, we found this type of gasket and trimmed the replacement before installing it, car never pharted again.

[redpepe]

hi bill and all,

i thought i'd share my experience too. rebuilt the 91 3cyl last summer @326k and has done fine EXCEPT that i had the billowing cloud at any speed over 60 mph until i modified the head gasket. i tried all sorts of alternative fixes and tests over a month or so but enlarging the upper holes did the trick and it has not 'pharted' since.

however .... the 'original' gasket that was in the engine was also one of the small holed type and it had never pharted for 326k. that fact made me wonder if it was actually the original gasket but i had no other indications that the head had ever been off before i bought the car. i believe it's a subtle combination of factors that actually makes the pharts but the single sure cure seems to be the enlarged holes. bill's test should be instructive given his good close observations .... and it's not the worst thing in the world to replace the head gasket if it fails. best of luck.

[RossT]

3 years ago I purchased a acdelco reman g10 1.0L on ebay. I was so nervous about not knowing if it had the proper size drain back holes in the head gasket and also if the builder put the one way brass oil valve back in the block before assembly, that I acutually took the head of engine to inspect it. Yest the brass valve was in place, but the head gasket needed to be modified. I did so, even reused the head bolts and all if fine 25,000 later.

[SchlockRod]

I'm putting a reman head on my '92 XFi right now, and I have two comments/questions:
1) Is Fel-Pro a good, or the best, gasket to use? A guy who runs a shop specializing in cooling systems said "Use Fel-Pro. It will not fail." before I even asked the question of what gasket to use. The only thing I've seen against Fel-Pro was on eBay from a guy selling some other head gasket. I called the Chevy dealer and they want $85 (Fel-Pro is about $50). I don't know what brand they sell; I'm guessing Suzuki OEM-type, something Japanese. Is that worth the extra $35?
2) Is anti-seize a good idea on the head bolts? The manual and Fel-Pro say to put oil on the threads and under the bolt heads. That's what I've always done. I'm not saying teh silver stuff is bad; just wondering...

[DOCTORBILL]

This morning before going to work, I torqued the Head Bolts to 54 ft lbs.

How do you re-Torque the Head Bolts again later - just tighten with the Torque Wrench
or completely loosen them and then torque again to 54 ft lbs ?

I got the Intake Manifold back on - no gasket compound - dry.

Here is a hint for folks trying to get that lower right nut onto the Intake Manifold under the
Pipe coming from the Throttle Body...facing the engine.
I cannot get my hand behind all that crap so of course I dropped the Nut down onto
the back of the engine.

I retrieved it with one of those magnets on the end of a collapsible stick in
a multi-head screwdriver.

That gave me an idea - I placed the nut sideways on the tiny magnet and with my left hand,
held it (underneath) onto the bolt back there.
I got my right hand middle finger onto the nut from the right side and got it to spin onto the bolt (just barely).

God bless that middle finger !

Then I could spin the nut down and tighten it with a 12 mm box wrench.

THAT particular nut/bolt is in the most inaccessible place I can think of....

Next - the Exhaust Manifold - after work.....

DoctorBill

[Johnny Mullet]

You can re-check the torque later, but if you are using 3Tech bolts, 50 Ft lbs is all you need and should not have to re-torque.

Do not loosen the head bolts!

Read this...........
http://geometroforum.com/topic/1987137/1/

Many people have had issues with oil blow-by, engine smoking, and other issues even after a rebuild. This is because some cheaper head gaskets do not have the oil drain ports correctly cut as you can see by these pictures...........





Apex and other brand gaskets are known for this issue, so refrain from the cheaper price and check your gasket before installing it.

Also be sure to take note of the little check valve in the block.............



Another issue with a gasket is the oil pan. If you have a 1996 or newer Metro, do not use an oil pan gasket. The gasket is made aftermarket, but not used at the factory. The aftermarket oil pan gasket is too thick and will make the crank sensor gap incorrect and cause driveability problems. Only use RTV sealant on the oil pan.

[idmetro]

Here are some pics from my 1992 FSM that sure looks like at least the upper right hole in the gasket is a bunch bigger than the pencil lead sized hole in some of the pics of the newer gasket. If a car has been running well since 1992, I'm staying with it...

[DOCTORBILL]

As they say, idmetro - a picture is worth a thousand words !

Now - my question is - WTF are most all Gasket Manufacturers making those
return holes smaller ? !

What is the reason ?

They are not doing it to piss off all of us Metroglodites...or are they ?

Federal Mogul even told doug2060 that they have a revision list showing the
change.

Can't be to save gasket raw materials....although they do recycle the donut holes
back into the dough.

This is a bugger all mystery !

Even a Caveman couldn't figure it out....

I really think it really is - just to piss us off !

DoctorBill

Dear Lord ! Please protect us from our protectors in the State Capitol !

[Crvett69]

off topic but if you need any tools Bill, schucks has all powerbuilt hand and power tools 50% off, they are changing to the o'reilly brand

[DOCTORBILL]

Both the Intake and Exhaust manifolds are back on.

Tomorrow I will hook the Thermostat housing back on and the Distributor.

Day by day as my time and the weather allow.

So far so good.

DoctorBill

[DOCTORBILL]

Saturday - Got the plate behind the Timing Belt Pulley back on.

Timing Pulley on - 96 Ft Lbs (seems like a lot) Broke a screwdriver putting it
into the hole(s) in the Camshaft to prevent it from turning ! Used wood under it
to keep from damaging the Aluminum edge of the head.

Took time to clean the oily grim off of the Head Cover and Timing Belt Cover
and the Distributor Plate between the Distributor and the Head.

Used Permatex Gasket Compound (Tube) on that Distributor gasket.

Used Permatex Grey RTV Silicone Sealer on the Camshaft Cover Plate Gasket into
the slot to keep it from leaking as it did before.
Screwed it on temporarily so it could harden in place.

Will take the cover plate off tomorrow and put ATV sealer on the outer edge of the Gasket in the
corners mostly - where it leaked before.
Maybe I'll leave that until I retorque the Head bolts when the engine is hot.

Drained the oil - no coolant was in the oil !
Letting it drain overnight.

Bought NEW Bosch Platinum Plugs (Four prong) and put them in with Permatex Anti-Seize.

Put the Distributor on and the Plug wires back on.

Have to do some Engine Cleaning with "Gunk" and Hot Water in my Weed Sprayer.
May go to a Car Wash place and do it up right....

Got cold, so I called it a day...

Sunday - Took off the Camshaft Cover and peeled off any RTV that had
squeezed to the inside - don't want it coming off and getting into the oil !


I then applied a THIN layer of the RTV on the outer portion of the exposed rubber gasket.
Also applied a THIN layer of Bee's Wax (Toilet Bowl WAX - Cheap!) to the head edge so the RTV won't
stick and I can remove the Cover later w/o destroying the Bead.

Put cover on and tightened it down.

Changed Oil Filter and added 5W-30 Oil - drained to the pan quickly !

Hosed engine off with GUNK and filled my 3 gallon metal Garden Sprayer with really hot water
and sprayed the grease and dirt off of the engine and Alternator and elsewhere.

More to come.

DoctorBill

[DOCTORBILL]

Sunday - After GUNK'ing and Hot water spraying, the engine is a little bit cleaner.

Here is the Timing Belt ready to go on - the marks are all "UP".



Here is the Timing Belt on. Rotated the engine twice with a 17mm Socket on the
main Timing Belt Sprocket and all came back into alignment....as per Manual.


Here is the "cleaned" Alternator - was almost unrecognizably dirty !


My Battery is five years old ! I always write the purchase date on the Battery
Case with "White Out" - I had not realized it was so old. Lucky it still works....

Notice that I washed all the old Baking Soda off of it when I cleaned the engine.


The engine. Notice the A/C ports from after I took all the A/C hoses off.
How can I cap them ?


Here she is all reassembled. SHIT ! The Battery was dead ! Won't even crank....

It is on the charger here - will buy a new Battery ASAP. Nothing like a Dead Battery.



Tomorrow I will crank it with the Coil disconnected - Frankly, I am scared to try to start her.
Worried I screwed something up....

Tightened the big Timing Belt Pulley on the Camshaft - forgot to do that 3 years ago !

Tightened the TB Tensioner Pulley.

Put the Distributor back in - But forgot to align it with the Key and rotor to the Number One Plug.

Will do that tomorrow.

I will "Time" The Phoenix once I get her running.

Fan Belt is on and tight.

Filled it with Oil and Coolant.

I have 4 bolts left over - I hate it when that happens !

DoctorBill

[DOCTORBILL]

Suddenly got colder than a Witch's parts on Halloween here !

Been trying to figure out how to get the Distributor back on after having
turned the shaft.

It only goes in one way, I think.

Then have to figure out which way it rotates (CW or CCW) and then set the
wires to 1,3 2 firing order when #1 is at TDC....then time it.

Much to do and no time to do it.

DoctorBill

[Crvett69]

take the cap off and turn the rotor while pushing it in and yes it will only go in one way and if your looking at the rotor from drivers side it turns ccw