NOT the end of my '93 metro...Life after death! RINGS

[DOCTORBILL]

I got the smaller RR this evening. Took my daughter to cheerleading some
football game and went on in (30 miles) and got the smaller job.

How long does this reaming process take? I've gotten almost all the ridge down on
all three cylinders, but one tiny edge won't go away. I've spun this thing
maybe 100 rotations and it doesn't seem to be taking off any more metal.

I am using a spray on oil as lubricant and wipe the walls down often.

How tight do you tighten it? This one had three floating edges that ride in the
cylinder. One edge has the bit. It is sharp like a bit should be.
But the bit floats on some rubber arc underneath it.

I am tempted to try scraping this hairthin ridge off myself as I don't want to
screw up the cylinder. The damned thing "Chattered" once and left little nicks
near the top edge of #1 cylinder. I went backwards to remove the edges of them.

Should the top of the cylinder be perfectly smooth as you run your finger
up and down near the top? That hairline ridge is felt....

I suppose the Rings would be stopped by even a hairline bump like that.

Should I stop, or continue reaming tomorrow morning?

The RR leaves marks on the cylinder wall, but I think they are just in the
glaze, not making scratches. The three edges touch the cylinder walls
and hooks on top keep it correct vertically.

It is an AMMCO 2100 ALUMINUM Ridge Reamer.

An observation - the ridges seem thicker to the touch on the left side
of the cylinder wall than on the right for all three cylinders.

After reaming, the right side of each cylinder is smooth but that hairline is on
all three on the left side.

Maybe some photo's tomorrow in the daylight.

Hope I haven't screwed the pooch.......

DoctorBill

PS - Schucks gave me a total refund on the other one that was too big - it didn't fit the Metro's Cylinder.

[stamar]

I cant keep silent

Im so glad you are fixing your geo.

I hope you learn a lot and gain confidence in yourself. And inspire other geo owners lets not forget.

I could find you a perfectly runnnign metro for way under 1k on the used market. I might even sell mine as I said but I might just keep it.

I would never recomend rebuilding the heads to your geo metro. Its a horrible idea. the value of one running fine is just so low. And I read somewhere in the middle here the project might fail, you invested in piston boring tools lol.
I mean I wish you all the best but I wish I hadnt been silent earlier. And I want to warn other metro owners ok. When the engine dies, ditch it. I mean im literally torn between changing the brake pads on mine or just buying another one I found for 700 and driving this one off a cliff. and i know how to change brake pads lol and it runs excellent.

youre not going to save 1000 in fuel over the life of your new headed geo. Theres some serious accounting flaw going on here.

[sbiddle]

What DoctorBill ends up with will be a car that runs great and the satisfaction of doing an engine overhaul by himself. That's priceless.

I've been trolling these threads since I bought my first Metro, and I've concluded that these cars are undervalued if they aren't rusting away. Big problem in Northern Climates.

[nonewcars]

I don't think its going to cost much more if any doing the head and rings vs buying a replacement motor. In the end, you will probably have a better motor that will last longer than buying a used JDM or other GEO motor. You may have just inspired me to rebuild mine when it finally dies vs. getting a replacement engine. Your going to be very satisfied when you get this puppy working. Thanks Dr Bill.

[DOCTORBILL]

Well, Stamar, let's examine this issue of -

1. Dumping a used car that needs fixing and buying another inexpensive used car.

2. Fixing up a used car that you already have.

First choice:

You live in California. Maybe used Metros are a dime a dozen there - the whole
state is Car City...! You must like doing the "search" - I hate it!
You must eschew engine and body and wheel work.....I do too, at my age!

You must not be bothered to drive in a car someone else has pissed in the
corners of. I like to 'customize' my vehicles with my own piss...

You must not be disturbed by the fact that you have no idea what the
mechanical shape of your vehicle is. Not knowing if the brakes are any good,
maybe the oil pressure is low, or the front suspension is weak, on and on.

Your vehicle is just some disposable 'ride' you don't care about... Yes?

Second Choice:

I, on the other hand, like to feel that the vehicle I am in is mechanically
sound. Every single click, hiss, thump, rumble, twang, knock, whistle, etc bothers
the Hell out of me when I own a vehicle....! I have to know what is causing that noise...!

Once I either repair something myself or have it done, I know that I
can count on that part of the car to not fail when I need it.

I suppose it is just a personal lifestyle choice.

I am not critisizing what you told me to do - it is just not my way.

I have had many, many cars. I drive them and keep them in good
mechanical shape if I can afford it. If I can't - I dump it.

I couldn't give a crap what my vehicles look like, however. Looks are not
rellevant to me. Mechanical condition is... If the car looks nice, that is a
bonus, but I won't spend $$ on looks.


I know myself well, and I know that once I get this Head and Rings job done,
I will be listening for every noise (real or imagined) that the engine makes -
for years! But if it runs for 1,000 miles w/o exploding or grinding itself up, I
will know that that engine is probably not going to fail right when it is
the most inconvenient for it to do so.

AND - I will be counting my money on the way to the bank from the
savings on Gasoline at 46 mpg (I hope it goes back to where it was before it died!).

BTW - What the Hell is all this crap about Hydrogen alternate fuel cars about!?
The Geo Metro 1.0 liter 3 cylinder will out out perform any of those hideously expensive
wretched environmentalist loved "Hydrogen-Electric" contraptions!

What we need is a car with a toilet in it. You go out to your car, take a big chili-dog
"Lincoln Log" dump in it and it makes methane and the engine runs on Methane from dump.
You have a "tank" where your family's dumps (include your dogs & cats) are kept nice
and moist and warm to make gooey bubbly methane... Like they do in China now for
their heating and cooking gas.

Just don't get in any high speed collisions! Imagine two of those guys in a big head-on
crash... Wouldn't want to be the paramedics who have to get you out of that
chocolate covered mess!

DoctorBill

[DOCTORBILL]

Back to specifics -

Here is the tool I reamed with....



I reamed the ridges...used a ratchet with a long extension so I could spin the Reamer
with my finger. Use a glove on the spinning finger! Used a spray oil as a cutting oil.







I hope I have not overdone this ream job....the cylinder is flat at the top, though.....

This Reamer had either a dull bit or it was not sharpened at the proper angle.
I could spin it and spin it and it just "wore" the ridge slightly - then of a sudden
it would "Bite" and cut like the devil.... Took a lot of turning (hundreds of turns).

Whew! Glad that part is history....

Question One: When one uses the ring compressor to insert the piston with the
new rings inserted - does one compress the rings such that the ring
compressor fits inside of the cylinder and then tap the piston down?

If not, how does one keep the ring compressor exactly over the cylinder not
allowing the piston to pop out before entering the cylinder?

If I do have to insert the ring compressor into the cylinder, then this
tiny ridge may be unimportant. Only that it will want to stop me pushing the
piston out at the beginning....

Question Two: When I am lapping the cylinders with the three-stone lapping tool,
I am supposed to slather it with lubricant (will use ATF from a squirt bottle).

All this crap will flow down thru the cylinder into and onto the crankshaft.
Now that will be bad news... grit and crap (in a fluid) dripping on things
that are supposed to stay scrupulously clean!

What do I do about that?

I plan to wrap the crankshaft connecting rod bearing surfaces with clean
cloths I bought at NAPA and then wrap them in Saran Wrap and Tape them
closed - to protect them.

But still - the idea of all that crap falling onto the Crank Shaft bothers me.

Maybe I'll wrap the entire crankshaft with Saran Wrap so that most
everything coming down goes over it and out on the ground...

DoctorBill

[geozukigti]

Put some shop rags on all the bearing surfaces, you won't have a problem. I personally would use the shop rags, and then spray the surfaces down with brake cleaner.. then put a coating of motor oil or lithium grease all over it to keep it from rusting before assembly.

As for inserting the piston.. Just wrap the ring compressor around the top of the piston, and let the skirt hang out of the bottom of it. Make sure the piston is facing in the proper direction, place the piston ring skirt inside the bore.. Then, push the piston down until it stops. At this point, you'll want to be pushing down on the ring compressor so it doesn't shift, and the rings don't expand from a gap at the bottom. Take a piece of soft wood or a rubber mallet, and tap the top of the piston, and it will fall right in. But yes, once the skirt is in the bore, you won't have any problems getting the piston in.

[DOCTORBILL]

Just thought I'd take a picture of the rings, head bolts and pan gasket.

Notice that there are four thin rings that are with the three oil rings.
Somebody miscount...? Or just an extra in case one breaks....?



Here is a close up of one of the Oil Rings - corrugated !



Is this so that it holds oil after the engine is turned off ?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Why would they make a pan gasket out of cork? Wouln't some newer
neoprene or silicone rubber make a better gasket material?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The Chilton Manual and someone here said to get some "Bottoming Taps"
(flat at the end) and clean out all the threads in the bolt holes.

I found that with the rebuilt Head all the threads in the bolt holes for the
thermostat and Distributor were full of crap and I had a hard time getting
the bolts in.

I guess crap falls into these bolt holes and you don't want the bolt "bottoming
out" against a wall of detritus....

Now I have to go find out what bolts sizes I have to buy Taps for.

Head Bolts.... ? mm
Many of the rest are 10 mm.

Suggestions on which size metrics I should buy?

I have a tap & Die set my wife got me for Christmas, but they are not the
"bottoming" kind - all pointy.

DoctorBill

[Crvett69]

you need 6 of the thin rings. takes 2 per piston, on on top of and one underneath that wavy looking ring that your calling a oil ring, thats actually just a spacer that holds the 2 thin rings apart. make sure that 2 of the thin rings aren't stuck together, you need 6 total. if they are missing you need to return set and get another

[DOCTORBILL]

My Lord, you almost made me do a 'chocolate pants pizza' there!

Yes, two of those rings were stuck together rings....I do have six of them!

Whew - I saw another trip back to town and a long wait for a replacement set...

Thanks Crvette69....I did not suspect stuck together rings. They are so thin,
they looked like one ring each.

Question comes to mind - why are rings so expensive. I gather that perhaps
they are not stamped out in bucketloads for a few cents each....

Are they common steel or some Neutronium Plasmonated Bozonium metal as in Star Trek?

Also, with that little space between the ends, doesn't a lot of high pressure gas and
maybe gasoline travel around these three ring ends and get down to the oil?

DoctorBill

[Crvett69]

if you look in your book you will see the end gap for the rings is fairly small. as the engine heats up the rings expand and not much gets past the first less gets past the 2nd etc. as the engine gets lots of miles on it the rings wear and the gap gets bigger, that what causes the smoking. even with new rings a little gets past, thats what turns the oil dark. when you cover crank use paper towels. they say the residue that comes off them is less harmfull than the thread and fluff off towels. you can buy a tap for the head bolts if they are crusty but if you run one of the old bolts in the holes and it turns freely all the way they are probably ok, just blow the holes out with compressed air

[DOCTORBILL]

When I get all done with this Head Rebuild and Ring replacement job, I will have
to "Break In" the car like a new engine won't I?

I was wondering if I shouldn't oil the cylinder walls after the rings are back in
and let the starter motor run the pistons up and down with the head off to
see if the rings are ok. 30 seconds of running the starter should tell if any
screw-up was done.

If I do that, I can make sure there is plenty of oil around when the rings first
run up and down....I could actually just hand turn the belt pully at first to
make sure nothing is amiss.

Sound like a bad idea or not...?

DoctorBill

[sbiddle]

Doctor Bill, With all due respect, you're worrying about stuff you don't really have to worry about. Do you think the monkeys they have rebuilding motors at the local Chevy garage take this much care in keeping everything clean and tidy? No. I'm not saying it isn't important, but you seem to be stressing over this. That's why you have an oil filter installed (Fram I see from the pictures, not a great choice, but ok if you change often). The filter will catch all the crap when you first start your new Metro engine up.

You will be so pleased with your rebuild you'll wet your pants. A towel on the seat would be appropriate.

[DOCTORBILL]

Ooooh, yes! I agree with you sbiddle.....The story of my life.
I just like to know "what I'm up against" before I get there...

Been having BAD allergies and taking allergy pills. Am a zombie right now...
"Fawcett Nose" syndrome. They are cutting wheat now and blowing all sorts
of crap into the air. The mosquitoes and yellow jackets make it even more fun!

Alright ! I went out and took out the first piston (#1) this evening.

Rotated the piston to bottom and took off the bearing cap.

Dumb, jerkwater, fool that I am - forgot to note arrow direction!
Jesus! I am so out of it...dump for brains! Same for the piston itself!
At least I have pictures of #1 from before and I am putting in new bearings,
so I guess I am OK with that. Still - what a jerk!

I put the cap in a plastic bag immediately.

I then rotated the piston to the top and pushed the piston out with a stick.

Here's the thing - No broomhandle in the world could fit in there - A PENCIL
is more like what's needed - a DOWEL of about 3\8 of an inch dia is just right!

I gave it a slight push and out it popped! Actually made a popping sound!
I grabbed the piston top with a paper towel and pulled it out....put it in a
big zip-lock bag.

I then went back and rotated the crankshaft back to bottom on #1 and
wrapped a fresh paper towel (rolled up) around the bearing surface.

Here are pictures:





Here is what the bearing cap on the piston rod end cap looks like:





If I am not incorrect, the bearings look good. Silver colored. Scratches down
the middle by the oil hole, but not bad - YES? New ones on order from Schucks.

I also bought a pencil thin magnetic base LED light at Harbor-Freight that
came in very handy. I stuck it on a surface and directed it toward where I was
working. Nice to have. A small LED light that goes on your head would
work well also.

I took the top two rings out with a ring spreader ($6) - came out so easily...

But - the oil rings don't have any flex to them - tight in the slots....

How do I get hold of them to remove them? The ring spreader cannot get
any edges to grab onto....

And yes - the rings have very sharp edges. Piston looks good.

Does the wrist-pin ever wear out? It seems quite tight - no play.

I suppose I should remove ALL the pistons and lap all three cylinders at the same time.

Yes - this was easy. I was stressing out for nothing.......! This is fun!

DoctorBill

[Crvett69]

to take oil ring out find the end on one of the thin rings. using fingernail or small screwdriver just pull end of one of the thin rings out and spin it out of the slot. then do the other thing ring, after you remove those the spacer ring should just come right out. to install the oil rind to the oposite, put spacer ring in first then lower oil ring then upper oil ring