NOT the end of my '93 metro...Life after death! RINGS

[idmetro]

DOC;
You might also check the camshaft pulley to make sure it isn't bent, I put in a JDM engine and fired it up only to hear this hideous raspy grinding sound; which initially sounded so bad that I figured all my work was wasted. Upon digging into it I discovered that the broken timing belt cover wasn't all that got hit by the shippers; they had bent the camshaft pulley so it was out of round and hit the timing belt cover every time it rotated. Changed that and all was well.

[Mohave]

Start by going in and removing the valve cover to see what might be in there. If you find nothing, then consider briefly starting the engine to see if you can identify the source of the noise.

The bang that preceeded the clacking is the concern and differentiator here.

[JustSayGo]

You can dissconnect the exhaust at the manifold and leave both manifolds bolted to the head to remove it.

[Crvett69]

i just installed a jdm engine in a 92 metro today. it ticked and knocked for about 15 minutes till lifers filled up. slowly got quieter and now it just purrs. some of the lifters are so loud they sound liike a rod knock almost so if they bled all the lifters down it might just need to be run for a bit

[DOCTORBILL]

I called the Head Service Shop today where I had the Head Rebuilt.

I explained what happened to them. The fellow on the phone said I should take
off the valve cover and try pushing the lifters down with a screwdriver - said I
can't hurt them.

I should see if any of them are stuck or different. Told him I would bring the Head
back in if it appears the Head is the problem. The job is guaranteed.

I hope the Head is the problem actually.

Am very tired lately - I have sleep difficulties. Trying slow-release Melatonin.
Can't sleep more than a couple of hours at any one time. Old age bullshit.
Saps one's energy away!

So - long story short - I will have a last look into this..... Can't keep it up
much longer...the car, that is! I'm glad I didn't attempt any more than a
three cylinder engine. Lawnmowers are more my speed....

DoctorBill

[DOCTORBILL]

I need some good advice (help)....

Sitting back and reading on this Forum and talking with people, I am of the
opinion that what is going on with my rebuilt Metro 3 cylinder engine is lifter
noise only (whistling in the grave yard, huh?).

So - I need some advice.

A) I intend to take off the valve cover and see if anything is awry...
BTW - when I removed the brand new plugs they were OK - one had carbon on it (?)

B) If nothing looks bad, I will push down on the Lifters with a big screwdriver
as per the Head Rebuild Shop's advice - To see if they move or are wierd.

C) If nothing looks strange, I will re-assemble the valve cover and try running
the engine a while. Heard several stories now about engines that were
out of service for a while making a racket when started.

D) In order to make the bugger run (won't run w/o pumping the gas pedal),
I need to find out what is wrong with the engine's fuel-air supply.

BTW - what if the Wang or thud that I heard was a small backfire!? .....(?)
After all, I was pumping the gas pedal....

Can I simply plug up the vacuum hoses that are normally going to the EGR
Valve for a while (temorarily)?

What are the two small hoses coming out of the front of the Throttle Body below the two fuel ports?

If I have a vucuum leak, I simply want to stop it to get this creature to run!

I simply want to get moving - time's a wastin' ! "The cat's in the cradle....."

Does anyone see a problem with this strategy?

I will wait for some opinions before proceeding since I could destroy all my
work by rushing in, where fools fear to tread.

"I see." said the blind man... "You're a lier!" said the fool.

DoctorBill

PS - heard a "story" today.... A guy in Seattle had an old Porsch (?) sitting
around for 12 years. Finally got it running and it sounded like Hell on wheels.
Went to a mechanic and the mechanics said, "Drive it to Portland and back!
That will fix it." The guy did and it fixed it!
Moral of the story - either total BullShit (or) some engines need to "seat in"
as it were...or die!

[JustSayGo]

Plugging the vacuum hoses is not a problem. Maybe now is a good time to do a compression test. If the sparkplugs are not damaged, that is a very good sign. Maybe (probably) it won't idle because of the TPS adjustment. The two ports at the TB may be the only two sources and the only two needing to be plugged.

[way]

Dr. Bill, do you have a voice recorder or camcorder or something like that? If you do, you can possibly make a movie of your car running and post it to youtube and put the link here. That will at least give these guys a firsthand listen to what you're describing and more than likely will solve the problem real quick.

Perhaps you could offer 1 point extra credit for a student to loan you a camera phone or digicam?

Hope this helps

[DOCTORBILL]

I might try recording this sound - BUT - the problem is, the engine won't run
w/o pumping the pedal....makes it difficult to observe. No one else home but
me most of the time...or busy.

I took off the valve cover....Picture


Everything looks hunkie-dorie peachy keen....oil pooled and everything wet with
oil - no metal chunks anywhere...

I wonder now if that 'bang' I heard was a backfire! One Plug is carbon coated, the
other two look new. Only ran maybe 4 minutes total time before I quit.

Here is a picture of the Camshaft Pulley from behind.


I don't think the pulley is bent - have to take the belt-cover off again to see.

Here are those two vacuum tubes. One goes to the EGR Valve and (I think)
the other goes to the Carbon Canister....a big square can on the firewall.


No - I don't give my students any "Extra Credit".....leads to problems of "fairness."

DoctorBill

[way]

Hi Doc,

"No - I don't give my students any "Extra Credit".....leads to problems of "fairness.""

Totally understandable. I guess I should have just suggested you ask a colleague if they had a camcorder you could borrow. A lot of the digital cameras have the capability to record for a couple of minutes and if you pick up one of those pocket sized tripods you can use it to record the sound. The video would just be of the car but the sound is what you'd be trying to record.

This could happen to anyone and it would be pretty beneficial to others to be able to learn from this.

It would be great if it was a backfire.

[DOCTORBILL]

You won't freaking believe what happened!

I cannot believe that engine even ran!

It was my fault!

Someone here, I believe, told me to check something, which I didn't check
before assembling the whole ball of wax..... Jesus.....

Here goes my story -

I was pushing down on the Lifters with a big old screwdriver I have.
They went down except for #1 cylinder.

So I turned the fan pulley to better get at #1's lifters.

That is when I noticed that the camshaft wasn't turning with the Fan Pulley!
Only now and then - like slipping!

I about dumped in my pants! Almost had a heart attack!

I knew instantly what I had not done properly!

Took off the Timing Belt Cover and looked - looked OK....

Took off the Timing Belt and the damned Camshaft Pulley was wiggling on the
shaft....loose!

I had forgotten to torque down the Camshaft Pulley Bolt!

Thank God this engine is not interference! THANK GOD!

Here is what the loose pulley has had happen to it from the pin in the shaft end:

That should be a nice round hole! Not any more.....

I hope to Christ that the valves and pistons didn't get hurt!

I don't know how this engine ran like that!

I need to buy a new Camshaft Pulley now.....Hope a wrecking yard has one!

If anybody were here right now, I'd have you kick my dumb ass real hard!

DoctorBill

PS - Now I know why there are two big holes in the Camshaft - so you can
put something in them to keep it from turning while you torque the Pulley
Bolt into place! Live and learn!

I hope anyone doing this learns from my mistake....

[JustSayGo]

I think you have found your idle problem. The machine shop could possibly have a used cam pulley. The noise you heard probably was a back-fire.

[Crvett69]

want me to sent you a cam gear? i have lots. did it screw up the end of the cam or the dowel pin too?

[DOCTORBILL]

Whitey's Wrecking Yard has a Cam Gear - $15.

I'll go get it tomorrow.

BTW - this is what the problem was - I did not torque the center bolt down
on the Camshaft Pulley (gear) shown in an earlier photo...


As you can see below, it came back from the Head Rebuild off of the head.


So, I screwed the pooch and I hope the shaft end pin is OK. It is not chewed up.
Looks like the pin is fairly tough.

I'll get back to this Forum tomorrow after obtaining another pulley (gear).

I should probably use a thread-lock on this bolt because if it comes loose - bam!

DoctorBill

[Crvett69]

make sure when you get the pulley it looks like yours, a stamped steel one that has a square tooth belt, on the late 93 and up they have a cast gear with spokes in the middle that takes round tooth belt. they do not interchange without changing the crank gear as well