stats of old american muscle cars

[tipota]

i dont know much about these cars, but recently i saw a video of a 69 camero just completley blow away a 94 supra TT. i also heard that the chevelle SS has 500 hp, and all this power is possible because they didnt have the restrictions we have today. now my question is, is there anywhere i can find stats for any of these cars? has anyone ever recorded the 1/4 mile time or their 0-60 time?

[Andrewh]

Well, that depends. Most of those cars are modified. The stats you are looking for would be either what the company published they were, or what a magazine tested. The local libraries usually have back issues all the way into the 60's. Find motor trend, or hot rod for back then, and you will see the tests they did and the times they clocked.
Any horse power ratings you see though should not be believed. They rated horse power differently, and a lot of companies lied out right for insurance reasons.

[curtis73]

Originally Posted by tipota

i dont know much about these cars, but recently i saw a video of a 69 camero just completley blow away a 94 supra TT. i also heard that the chevelle SS has 500 hp, and all this power is possible because they didnt have the restrictions we have today. now my question is, is there anywhere i can find stats for any of these cars? has anyone ever recorded the 1/4 mile time or their 0-60 time?

In part you are correct. Older cars lacked the emissions and compression limitations imposed by later smog laws and reformulated gasoline. But the story is much longer than that...

Prior to 1972, automobiles were rated by gross flywheel HP. This unreliable HP rating was based on the engine running no accessories, cool ambient air, no exhaust, and also had a heaping helping of best guess, insurance company reactions, market segment, and moon phase. Suffice it to say that the 1970 LS6 Chevelle was factory rated at 450 hp, but in actuality it made well over 500. If they had advertised the truth, insurance companies wouldn't cover them and some buyers may be put off by the maintenance associated with high performance cars of the time. Contrast that with the 1968 AMC Hornet. Factory advertised at 112 hp, it actually made 86 hp. Had they advertised the truth, no one would buy such a wimpy car.

Beginning in 1972, automakers consolidated into one rating system known as SAE net hp. This is engine HP at the flywheel, but with all of the intake, exhaust, emissions equipment, belt driven accessories, and proper operating temps. A 350-hp car in 1971 may now be advertised at 280 hp in 1972 even though nothing changed about the engine.

Although the older engines had nearly unlimited compression and cam choices, they were also hindered by "old" technology. The very best head design from that 500+ hp Chevelle engine won't hold a candle to the quality of flow of today's heads. That is partly the reason for such high specific outputs of todays engines. Take a look at the 2006 Corvette Z06 with the LS7 427 ci engine. It will make about 500 hp on today's SAE net rating with crappy gasoline and making (literally) 1/50th the emissions of that old iron 454 in the Chevelle.... all while getting 25 mpgs

The stock Chevelle SS 454 LS6 in 1970 probably turned respectable mid to low 12s in the quarter. That is incredibly respectable for its time. More typical for the "Performance" cars of the time would be mid 14s. I think my 66 Bonneville with a 389/325 hp was in the mid to high 15s.

That's the long answer. The short answer is.. chances are, that camaro was highly modified. If that camaro was stock-equipped with 500 hp, it was one of the rare COPOs or a very special Z28. (none were actually factory equipped with 500 hp, but that is just an example) If that were the case, it would be in a museum, not on the road. That's a kind of car that one just wipes with a diaper once a month. If it was a cheap camaro that someone modified, they are a dime a dozen.

[curtis73]

Oh, and one more thing. Head to the book store and pick up some books. They aren't cheap but they are incredible resources..

The Standard Catalog of American Cars, 1946-1975
The Standard Catalog of American Cars, 1976-1999
The Standard Catalog of Import Cars, 1946-1999

They are huge resources that have every single piece of data you can think of on every car produced both foreign and domestic. Fun read.

[FikseGTS]

this site has a bunch of records for classic muscle car's 1/4 mile times....


http://www.dragtimes.com/

most are modified.... and some are really quick... check out this 1967 Camaro...


http://www.dragtimes.com/Chevrolet-C...slip-4839.html




.

[stang351]

..and modding a carburated engine(especially a V8 against a ricer)is easy due to the availabilty of parts and the limited if any compters in the car

[Twitch1]

Muscle cars had V-8s. And there is nothing that can produce power like or sounds like a medium to big V-8!

[rollin_on13s]

It's been reputably rumored that many muscle cars were, in fact, underrated by by the factory to allow the cars to pass through upper management, and to allow them to be insurable. As far as I know, there is no "real" proof of this, but it has been accepted as fact.
With that being said, most HP and ET stats that are available are from magazine tests, where these cars were tested in completely stock trim- and not capable of running at true potential.
Two things prevented a realistic test; tire technology, and factory exhaust systems.
As far as I know, most mag tests were performed using a then "state-of-the-art" typical F70-14 Polyglas GT. Which basically means that a car could suffer from wheelspin all the way through first gear and half of second, even after careful tire heating and launching excersizes at the dragstrip. A good portion of the ET went up in tire smoke.
Factory exhausts at that time, for the most part, were comprised of cast iron manifolds and small diameter exhaust pipes. It was only in the aftermarket that a "performance" exhaust could be had for most cars. Even for most musclecars that relied upon mid-range torque and HP, original equipment exhausts were severely limiting. A Big-Block that makes power to 6000 RPM needs a seriously healthy exhaust system to deliver it's true potential.
There are real reasons that musclecar performance still has mystique today. An LS-6 Chevelle was capable of 12 second 1/4 mile times with minimal tuning and slicks. An LS-7 Corvette was even faster. Hemi 'Cudas and BB Mustangs were comparable. What made theses cars great was that they made power simply- without overhead cams or fuel injection, and they made that power-lots of it-throughout a WIDE RPM range. They weren't "peaky" like their european counterparts. And they can somehow still hold their own today.
Strict comparisons of horsepower can be deceiving- there is no way that a 427 SOHC equipped Ford, or a ZL-1 Chevy was accurately rated by their original producers. They were made only to qualify a certain body/chassis for competitive sanctioned racing. But they were real musclecars. A factory '69 Camaro could possibly be equipped with an origianal screaming aluminum-headed 427ci BB with around 500 HP- but that was rare. Alot had the LT-1, some had a 396, most probably had a 327 and a 2speed automatic. Realistically, most '69 Camaros ran something like Curtis says- like a 15.
But mildly-tuned 11 second factory '69 Camaros did exist.