thoughts on concept gtr?

[S13wanabe]

Well good luck on being a better handler. There are reasons why real race cars are rwd and not awd. The ZO6 gets a 1.02g skidpad rating and only weighs 3132lbs. I also doubt the Skyline will come out that cheap, but if it does then great, it'll be a value supercar. I just doubt it will. And like I said, if Japanese cars are so great, why don't they race on other peoples playing fields. Also Skylines have never even broken into the 12 second 1/4 mile bracket in stock form. They have been 13.6 - 13.4 (which is also the same as the NSX), and since the STi and Evo have been just a tiny bit slower (13.8 - 13.6, and now 13.3) it is very hard to believe that it was a much better performer in stock trim. I know Skylines had easy potential, and thats really what made them great, but now they are changing it's whole platform from tuner car to supercar, which equates into a huge price. Since you can't get an R34 for under $80,000 legally, I find it hard to believe the new one, which is going to be faster, will be cheaper.

[slideways...]

well actually this "real reason" is not "real" because the skyline in the JGTC is RWD because in the early 90s it dominated so much they banned AWD from the competition.

skidpad rating is great, if all you do is race people on cloverleaf ramps. im talking about real life handling. id say the skyline would win on a track like suzuka or ebisu, maybe the z06 would win on the oval track though.

and ive seen stock skylines run 13.0 over and over.
maybe not quite as fast but surely close.

and nissan wont take gray market importing prices into mind when they price the new GT-R. they will look at the fact that the old one started at around 53K.

and what makes you think the old skylines were tuner cars?(btw i hate that industry created term "tuner". it makes us sound like were building lego cars from mcdonalds happy meals)
and what makes you think that the new skyline will be a true supercar?
in my mind, the type of car isnt changing, just the level of performance set by the car is.
its just like the new M5. now that it has 500hp, is it really a supercar? i think not.

the skyline is, was, and always will be a capable GT class car, modeled after a luxury sedan. the evo and STi are, were, and always will be a rally homoligation modeled after a subcompact economy car.
the z06 is, was, and always will be a capable race car with no real reason to stay in the sports car class. GM can make it as fast, sleek, low, high strung as they want an not ruin its image. which they have done. but theres no way that a car riding on leaf "springs" can rock out with a double wishbone, electronic AWD track machine that the GT-R is.

[240SXSlideStar]

Also, since when is the overall worth of a car determined by 1/4 mile times and skidpad ratings? That's the SR20DETpower way of doing things.

[Hit_N_Run-player]

Originally Posted by 240SXSlideStar

Also, since when is the overall worth of a car determined by 1/4 mile times and skidpad ratings? That's the SR20DETpower way of doing things.

lol

[orestes]

i think slideways wins because he used "homoligation" thats a good word

and i dont see how it could not be in the 12's with 450+ HP. before stock they had much lower as we all know that gentlemans agreement in japan among the distributors i forget what the exact number was but a lot lower than 450. IIRC the new Z06 was like 11.7, so id say the GT-R would be like 12 flat?

[S13wanabe]

Don't underestimate the handling of the Z06. In most every test, it is handling better than any Porsche except the GT2 and the Carrera GT, better than the Ford GT, the Dodge Viper, the Ferraris except the Enzo of course. So where do you get off saying that the Corvette and its leaf springs aren't good in the handling department. The Z06 has been track tested with these cars and is surprising people left and right. I judge cars based on performance and affordability, and it's hard to beat a Corvette for any amount of money. It's a $65,000 car that has carbon-fiber front fenders and floor board, titanium exhaust, magnesium composite roof, titanium connecting rods, and all you can do is attempt to say it's not advanced or good because it uses leaf springs, and does so very well, and has forever. Maybe you will try to make fun of it now because it's a pushrod motor, but then again a pushrod motor saves weight and space, and is producing just as much power as any overhead cam motor. In fact, in some race series the stock vehicle comes with an overhead cam motor stock, and a pushrod motor is put in it's place for just those reasons. Sometimes old technologies that have been around forever and perfected over time are the best. That's exactly what the Corvette is.

[R.W.240]

Originally Posted by S13wanabe

Don't underestimate the handling of the Z06. In most every test, it is handling better than any Porsche except the GT2 and the Carrera GT, better than the Ford GT, the Dodge Viper, the Ferraris except the Enzo of course. So where do you get off saying that the Corvette and its leaf springs aren't good in the handling department. The Z06 has been track tested with these cars and is surprising people left and right. I judge cars based on performance and affordability, and it's hard to beat a Corvette for any amount of money. It's a $65,000 car that has carbon-fiber front fenders and floor board, titanium exhaust, magnesium composite roof, titanium connecting rods, and all you can do is attempt to say it's not advanced or good because it uses leaf springs, and does so very well, and has forever. Maybe you will try to make fun of it now because it's a pushrod motor, but then again a pushrod motor saves weight and space, and is producing just as much power as any overhead cam motor..

+1

Originally Posted by S13wanabe

In fact, in some race series the stock vehicle comes with an overhead cam motor stock, and a pushrod motor is put in it's place for just those reasons. Sometimes old technologies that have been around forever and perfected over time are the best. That's exactly what the Corvette is.

-1

downgrading is pretty rare out side of Nascar, and IIRC the Ferraris are giving the C6Rs a run for their money.




I still dont think the GT-R will beat the Z06, thats a tall order for a Grand Tourer.

[AWDSR20]

do u guys watch the show "top gear" did u see the episode about corvette and vipers? yeah..both did baaad!

[2.4L of Torque]

Has anyone seen where they took the Skyline and put it against all other super cars.... vette, Viper, SVT. Porsche and the like. And the GT-R came in like 3rd behind a Porsche and another car...No theres no way a Skyline with AWD and AWS could outhandle a Z06...If I remember correctly to improve the skidpad G rating you need to prevent understeer which can be done with Suspension tuning before the car is realeased even though every car produced is given understeering tendancies and another big factor on getting the skidpad down is being able to step the rear out and it not being oversteer. Im sorry S13wanabe you had some good points but the not outhandling the new Z06 was outlanish.

You say you judge cars on "Performance and Affordability" why is the affordability in consideration? Is this not a discussion on how awesome or sucky the the GT-R might be....not whether it costs 50k or 100k. And also 99.99999999999% of this forum will not own a Skyline GT-R(R35).

If a 280ish BHP R34 can run 13.* what makes you think a 400 BHP+ car cant make it to the 11's?

none of this is an attack just questioning your "logik" is all.

[XeVeNskyLiNE]

Originally Posted by S13wanabe

There are reasons why real race cars are rwd and not awd.

Wasn't the GT-R banned from Le Mans?

Originally Posted by S13wanabe

And like I said, if Japanese cars are so great, why don't they race on other peoples playing fields.

A bit besides the whole "supercar" arguement here, but come on, I know you've heard of SCCA and all the other touring car events that you'll see on the Speed Channel every once in a while.

Its all kinds of unfair to bash on JGTC. The 3 major categories of cars have their own dominant road racing series. JGTC, DTM, and uh....doesn't America even have one? lol. Could've sworn they did.

Its too ealry trying to compare the new GT-R to the C6, simply becuase one exists, one doesn't. We're not even sure on the GT-R specs.

I wanna see a comparo between a R34 and C5 which seems a bit fairer as they're both a step older from their new forms. I shall report back with stats..............

[XeVeNskyLiNE]

C5

General Information
Price: $49,905
Miles Per Gallon: 19/28 mpg
Curb Weight: 3118 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual
Engine
Type: V8
Displacement: 5665 cc
Horsepower: 405 bhp @ 6000 rpm
Torque: 400 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
Redline: 6500 rpm
Performance
0-60 mph: 4.0 sec
0-100 mph: 9.5 sec
Quarter Mile: 12.5 sec @ 115 mph
Skidpad: .99g
Top Speed: 171 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 104 ft
Slalom Speed: 70.3 mph

GT-R

Price: $89,500
Miles Per Gallon: 14/23 mpg
Curb Weight: 3395 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/AWD
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual
Engine
Type: Twin-Turbo Inline-6
Displacement: 2568 cc
Horsepower: 276 bhp @ 6800 rpm
Torque: 289 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm
Redline: 8000 rpm
Performance
0-60 mph: 5.1 sec
0-100 mph: 13.0 sec
Quarter Mile: 13.7 sec @ 105 mph
Skidpad: .89g
Top Speed: 155 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 121 ft
Slalom Speed: 68.1 mph




Just from the stats, obviously the Vette is better around the board out of the box. But as we all know, the Skylines potential is what makes it famous. A tuned Skyline is bad fucker to mess with. We'll see if the new one follows the trend or contributes the dying breed of real sportscars.

[240SXSlideStar]

There's also the fact that a GT-Rs engine is detuned to comply with japanese horsepower limitations.

[R.W.240]

Originally Posted by SR20DETpower

The Small block chevy is the king of modifications and without our world would be different no doubt. It is the most produced engine and has 50 years of experience... sorry the GTR just doesn't take that out. You act like its so easy to make power on a GTR but has anyone actually priced what a high end even exhaust system costs for a BNR34? It will make you like your 240sx even more....

700$ for a quality exhaust isnt blowing the bank.... Corvette stuff will be the same if not more.

Originally Posted by SR20DETpower

I gurantee you there are SHITLOADS more companies and parts for chevy v8's then GTR motors.... there are a lot more v8's, cheaper, so there is a lot more money to be made of selling modifications and they have experience with it for over 50 years now.

Because Quanity is more important than Quality.

Originally Posted by SR20DETpower

I remeber R.W. looking down on Edelbrock intake manifolds and shit for v8's... acting like it was some kind of redneck part and how japanese parts are so much better... Well sir Edelbock has been around a lot longer then even Nissan and they have numerous times more experience in perfecting that part and producing it.... made in the usa isn't all that bad sometimes..

A) Find me where I said that and I will either explain myself further for your tiny hillbilly brain or take it back.

B) Edelbrock is 55 yrs right? so is Nissan if you go back to Prince, IIRC. Eitherway get off your high horse.

Originally Posted by SR20DETpower

Meanwhile people put a simple 200 dollar cam in their vette and make incredible gains that the 5-7 times more expensive GTR exhaust system can't touch. Whats fucken with that?.

Good lord. 1200-1400$ Exhaust? way to pick out the cheapest Cam and most Expensive exhaust ever and a potmetal cam to compare.

Originally Posted by SR20DETpower

and if you guys weren't in such denial you would know about the readily availble coilover spring kits made for corvettes. ..

No Way DUDE? you must be like the only person on the planet to know that. Denial - No, Not caring to post it up - Yes.

Originally Posted by SR20DETpower

With its less weight, bigger tires, insane more power, lower CG, and better brakes.. the vette can stomp on a stock GTR like nothing. AWD doesn't make up for 120hp on a straight away. 4wheel steering doesn't make up for your shitty small tires and brakes. And the higher weight and CG just adds more to the GTR's problems

I agree that it will get beat, I wonder by how much though.

[240SXSlideStar]

Originally Posted by SR20DETpower

I just don't like the steps new japanese cars are going, like said before, they are becomming harder to modify and too gaudy. New emissions programs and the like are taking your every day car even further from good performance.

What was the point of this post? Besides, the C6 has a forced 1-4 gear change thing for emissions, can't get much further from performance then that. And all new cars have emissions shit up the ass, not just japanese cars.

[R.W.240]

indeed, what does 1-4 gear change have to do with anything?


you have to shift within a pretty narrow RPM band to get that thing to work anyways.