2001 steering wander, constant correcting

[BrianAlex]

Does yours have the "Handling Package"? This option includes a different steering gear and this may be a critical piece of the puzzle. Thanks-Brian-

Another coincidence; My last car until this Dec. was a Cressida Wagon very similar to your Camry Wgn. Even though it was in nice condition with new leather door panels and a host of other new parts I had to have it crushed because it wouldn't pass Calif. smog.

[lesab92]

Too bad about your Cressida. In Illinois, they have stopped testing pre 1996 cars. A few years ago you needed to take your car to a test station and they would put your car on a "dyno" and accelerate up through various speeds in an attempt to simulate actual road condition. They closed all of those facilities. Since our Camry is a '96, we still need to take for test, but they only use a computer. So far it has passed.

I saw the photo of your car. It looks really like new, just like mine. And since we both have extremely low mileage cars, there must be some reason why we're both having the same issues. I hope we can find a solution, because it's not easy to find a decent used car with less than 100K miles. Would be nice if one of us had different tires.

Our GM does not have the handling package, just traction control and rear air suspension. I'm thinking it's the steering gear box or the tires. Before the snow hit, I took the car to a high school parking lot that was reasonably flat. I did left and right turns and each time the steering wheel does not return totally to center. In either case, the wheel only returns to about 5 degrees left or right from center. To center the wheel, I need to turn the wheel to center or the car will continue to turn. I've thought about putting a little more air in the tires (40 psi) to see if this condition improves with a little less tire on the ground. As you said in an earlier post, it's like your aiming rather than steering at high speeds. Maybe the Goodyear dealer I was talking to is correct when he says that the Michelins tend to behave like this on these full size Ford/Mercury/Lincoln cars.

Originally Posted by BrianAlex

Does yours have the "Handling Package"? This option includes a different steering gear and this may be a critical piece of the puzzle. Thanks-Brian-

Another coincidence; My last car until this Dec. was a Cressida Wagon very similar to your Camry Wgn. Even though it was in nice condition with new leather door panels and a host of other new parts I had to have it crushed because it wouldn't pass Calif. smog.

[Gerry1966]

Hi, I acquired a one owner 1996 MGM with the wandering steering issue (was so excited to find the car I thought it just needed aligned). I have owned 3 90-96 MGMs and one 91 lincoln TC, never have I had this steering and wandering front end issue.

I had my trusted mechanic replace the steering box, steering gear, ball joints, Tie Rods, Pittman arm, idler arm, bushings, shocks one step at a time looking to end this. i think the whole front end is now new. The U joint is solid at the couplings and moves freely. I have had it aligned 2 times by 2 different shops, it is spot on. Previous owner had Uniroyals on it, were a bit worn and had a few cracks in the sidewalls so I purchased a set of Michelin X radials from Sam's Club-I have run these on 3 previous MGMs and never had a problem. The wandering has calmed down but it is still there on the highway .

I really do not know what to replace next...this has the standard handling package. Car was rustproofed, runs like a dream, has the electric dashboard and EVERY option, and is really solid and tight.

Having the brakes and all 4 rotors replaced as they are original and a bit "glazed" on the surface. My mechanic said the dust/heat shields on the front brakes cause excessive heating of the rotors and we agreed to leave them off maybe this will help.

If anyone finds the answer PLEASE post to me!

[lesab92]

Welcome Gerry1966: Sounds like similar scenario again. I too was elated to find this GM. When I bought it last August, it had just over 10,000 original miles. And I got the tip on the car from a close friend so everything seemed just right. I wasn't really looking for one of these 4 doors, but it sounded like such a great deal. Who knew the steering was going to be such a big deal. Sorry to hear you had to replace so many components, but at least you know your front end is good. Hopefully we all find a solution before we run out of interest in these cars.

I'm going to get rid of these Michelin tires as my last ditch effort. If that doesn't work out better, than I'm going to sell the car when the weather gets better.

On another note: I called 2 Mercury dealer service departments today inquiring as to whether they have seen this issue before. Of course they both said bring the car in for an inspection (1 @ $110, the other @ $57.50) and they would see what they find.

I also callled Red Head Steering Gears in Seattle http://www.redheadsteeringgears.com/

They have re-manufactured GM steering boxes for $236 exchange and the core charge for this particular model is $75. Shipping back and forth is @ cost. The person I spoke with was very knowledgeable and even put me on hold a couple of times to go and speak with someone else about this issue. The reason I called them is that I noticed on a Ford Truck forum that many SUVs and pickups have similar issues. They re-manufacture their steering boxes utilizing a larger bearing than original and the link on their site explains this. He referred to this a the Ford "small bearing" problem with these steering boxes.

[Blue)(Fusion]

Just throwing some thoughts out there reading the previous few posts....

1) When you got alignments, did you get just the toe aligned, or did you ensure that toe/caster/camber was all within spec?

2) When I ran Michelin Symmetries, I ran them at 40psi for better fuel economy. Mind you, the center tread wore out noticeably quicker this way. Still had plenty of tread running them from new with 30k on them when I sold them and the wheels in November.

3) Did the shops check the rubber bushings on the front upper and lower control arms? If they are dried out/worn, the control arms will move a little when in motion.

4) Check the sway bar and linkage! My front sway bar bushings were pretty bad when I replaced mine a few months ago, allowing the swap bar to lag when trying to eliminate sway.

5) OH I FORGOT ONE!
Except for the GMQs with the HPP (Handling & Performance Package), these vehicles do NOT have a rear sway bar from the factory. I installed a 17mm rear sway bar from a junkyard Crown Victoria Police Interceptor (a.k.a. P71) and it made a world of difference in improving stability on the highway. It reduced the car tending to be pushed by a crosswind and in my experiences, slightly reduced the wander on the highway (this is with the Michelins).

Total cost to install the rear sway bar was about $50 for aftermarket Energy Suspension polyurethane bushings, aftermarket MOOG sway bar end links, and brand new factory brackets, bolts, and speed nuts.

For 4 and 5, I have some pictures that may or may not be helpful in this gallery of mine. The front sway bar bracket studs had to be cut out with a Sawz All due to rust and I got new ones from the dealer. The receipt is in the pictures.

4 and 5 also took no mechanical skill whatsoever to accomplish. It literally took a under an hour combined to do both, save the run to the dealer and Lowe's.

[BrianAlex]

Welcome to the discussion Jerry1966. Thanks Blue Fusion for the info.

I am still waiting for someone with the Handling and Performance Package to chime in. Right now I am leaning towards a steering gear swap as the best solution but I need to hear from someone with this set-up.

I am also wondering what it would be like to unplug the EVO system and go for a test cruise.

[Blue)(Fusion]

Like I said before, my dad has a '99 HPP and his steering is tighter. By tighter, I mean it requires a little more force to turn the wheel versus the base civilian model steering gears. He is running some cheap-o brand tires that I never heard of before, but they are honestly better than anything else I've tried grip-wise. His does not wander. Mine no longer wanders with everything I have, too. He never had Michelins on it, even from the dealer since it's a Crown Victoria.

Only exception is windy conditions. Then it's a PITA to keep in the lane. But that goes for any RWD vehicle I suppose.

EDIT:
Unplugging the EVO harness would make things worse. This would cause the steering box to remain in maximum assist mode, i.e. parking lot mode. At highway speeds, this can be dangerous. Ask me how I know...

[BrianAlex]

Thanks Blue Fusion.

I do believe the wandering is a matter of tires and steering box.

Here is some futher info that backs up this belief;

Quick Ratio" Steering Box: As part of the handling and performace package (HPP), crown vics recieve steering boxes with a "quicker ratio" than their non-hpp counterparts. This increases turning effort for better handling, reduced wandering, and for a more sporty feel. Police cruisers have a quick ratio box too. But the police one is a little tighter than the hpp box, particulary in the 99'-02' vics. Swapping steering boxes is straight forward enough. All 1992-2002 steering boxes will interchange, but older 95' & prior vics will require a new pressure hose to use a 96+ box. If you choose the "pre-owned" route, keep in mind that the general "rule of thumb" is to install the newest lowest mileage latest model year steering box that you can find. See also: http://www.car-part.com

Speed rated tires: As part of the HPP and police packages, crown vics recieve firm speed rated tires. These tires have reduced sidewall flex, better blowout protection, and other enhanced handling characteristics. See also: http://www.tirerack.com

This info is from http://www.p71interceptor.com/optionalequipment/


If your dad's rides OK that's more evidence.

I called Ford and they want $493 (incl tx) for the box so I need to be sure. Thx-Brian

[Blue)(Fusion]

If you want to experiment with the steering box, get a junkyard part. There are countless P71s sitting in junk yards. Last time I went to the local Pull-A-Part there were no less than 30 Police Interceptors there plus more GMQs and civilian Crown Vics.

It will not have the EVO, but it will determine whether the steering box swap will help for cheap. I'm sure you can get it for under $50 in a reasonable condition. If it works, get a remanufactured HPP steering box.

FWIW, his tires have very soft sidewalls. Inflated to 40psi they look like they are low on air. The Symmetries have stiffer side walls than his which did perplex me and did not show low air pressure until about 25psi.

I'm wondering it part of it has to do with the stiffer front and rear sway bars, and stiffer front springs.

[BrianAlex]

Blue Fusion, that sounds like a plan. I'll check my Pick Your Part and get one for $50 or whatever. If it works ok I'll leave it on there,I'm not adverse to having a stiff steering gear.

[lesab92]

Hello again, Finally warming up around here for a couple of days and I have some time to do some more checking into the steering issue. I called Discount Tire last week and they said to bring the car in and they want to rotate the right side tires to see if the pulling changes. I had thought that switching the front tires left to right and right to left would be a better indicator of pulling. I'll report back what happens. I am thinking of trading up to the Michelin HydroEdge if they offer a good deal. I know it will cost me more money, but at least I would get better wet pavement traction. Of course the Discount Tires salesman could not understand why I didn't like the Symmetry tires I had purchased. Anyone have good luck with the HydroEdge tires on a GM?

[Blue)(Fusion]

Thought I'd give some new input here.

I am on spring break and my dad let me drive his 99 LX w/ Handling & Performance Package around town (since my car requires 93 octane which is much more expensive) and he had me rotate his tires. His does wander. I honestly don't remember if this is a new thing or if it's been like this forever. I only experienced it on the highway in his car. On city streets it's pretty stable.

Mine definitely does not wander like his does anymore. Once again, I think it comes down to the tires and/or wheels. I am running 17" rims instead of the stock 16" rims which means less tire sidewall. Plus these Pirelli sidewalls are very stiff.

[BrianAlex]

Thanks for the update BlueFusion. I watch this thread for updates and I am bummed that your Dads car wanders even with the Handling package. I was waiting for this info before I commited to purchasing a HPP gear box and doing the swap. Maybe I will skip it now.
I am getting "used" to the terrible "handling" and I think I am stuck now anyway since selling it with gas going above $4 to who knows how high might be tough. -Brian-

[Blue)(Fusion]

After I finish changing my shocks tomorrow I'll put his car on jacks and see if I can't find any loose components. If I don't find anything, I'm sticking to my tire/wheel theory.

P.S. I did check and all of his suspension and steering components are factory with the exception of all 4 ball joints and one outer tierod which have been replaced with the greaseable style (unfortunately).

[lesab92]

Since I changed to the Michelin HydroEdge there was an improvement, but not very much. These tires are better on wet roads, but get up to 65 – 70 MPH and depending on the road it pulls to same side as lane you're driving in. I mentioned this issue to a mechanic today and he thought it might be lower ball joints. Here we go again. I had this all checked out by the alignment shop and you'd think they would have found that when they dropped the tie rods. It is fine for around town driving, but stay off the highway. We have ours up for sale and I'm hoping it will sell because of the low mileage. I'm regretting for upgrading to the HydroEdge tires. I should have gone with something different. I think Michelin owns BF Goodrich and I might have been given a chance to go with a Goodrich tire. The fact that the steering doesn't return all the way to center also throws me. It is like something in the steering system is way too tight. Hopefully driving the car will help loosen things up a bit. I think components that can be greased are way better than these factory sealed units.