Frustrated LS problem

[llitespeeed]

i bought a 2003 LS V8 3.9 86,000 miles

on the way home from dealer on the day of purchase, engine light came on.
then noticed a slight engine shudder during slight acceleration
at around 50 mph.
neither of which happened during the test drive.
took the car to auto zone for a computer check.
the computer show error codes related to miss-fire.
took back to dealer for service.
was told that some water had got to the coil-over plugs,causing the misfire,
due to the engine being spray-cleaned and detailed.
they dryed out the area and then i test drove it.
didn't notice the shutter. (and i tried to make the car do it).
thought the problem was gone.
then on the way home, again the engine shutter returned. but the engine light did NOT come on.
turned around and went back to dealer.
.
mechanic test drove the car said didn't notice the acceleration shutter during test drive.
said the computer showed no error codes and the engine light didn't come on .
and with no error code they cannot diagnose the problem. and sent me away with a "sorry we dont know what to tell you"



are you kidding me!!??!!!!!!!!!????????

they trust a friggin computer that much????

should they have checked the transmission?

could the shutter be caused by a gear slip?

does the computer detect transmission malfunctions?

what other ways can they use to diagnose the problem?

just because the computer shows no error codes do they honestly think that there
is nothing wrong with the car?

does the computer show every single malfunction the car is capable of? i don't think so.

do they think i'm stupid?

do they think i don't notice the difference between normal vehicle performance and
a malfunction?

why do i notice the problem and not the mechanic?

is it possible that i'm the only one that notices it?

to me its very obvious. in D5 in 5th gear a slight acceleration causes the car
to shutter like its hesitating. when the gas peddle is floored the car accelerates
quite smoothly however.

im not crazy. there is definitely something wrong with the car.

i want to find out what it is to determine if i can repair it myself.

im not very familiar with the car's computer system.
how complicated is it?

what are its limits?

how easily can i access it?

should i take the car to another mechanic?

should i take the car back to the dealer and demand they
search for the problem with other methods?

should i do what some LS owners say.....

"when you buy an LS with high miles, go ahead and replace the plugs and coils right away cause they all go bad and have issues".
how safe is it to assume that the shutter is caused by faulty coils or plugs, so subtle that the computer doesn't even pick it up?

please, i would like some answers and or advice. j

[shorod]

Welcome to the forum!

The CoP's are relatively common parts to fail, and there is a service bulletin related to water leaking from the windshield cowl on to the CoPs and causing an ignition misfire.

Yes, the computer system can identify issues with the transmission, but that's probably not what you're experiencing, it probably is an ignition misfire. Also, not all scan tools can access the transmission computer. Was this a Ford dealership, or other? If they don't have a higher end scan tool, they probably only have access to the powertrain (engine) diagnostic codes. Additionally, some of the high end scan tools can access PIDS which will indicate if there are misfire counts on specific cylinders, even if the counts are not high enough to trigger a diagnostic code.

The good news is on the V8 LS the spark plugs and CoPs are not too difficult to replace. There's one bolt near the brake booster that is easier to get to if you have a ratcheting hinged box end wrench (like the Gearwrench), but that's the most difficult part of the whole job. Well, that and buying a set of CoPs if you go that route.

If you do attempt to replace the spark plugs, pay careful attention to the CoP boots for signs of oil. Earlier models of the LS had issues with spark plug well seals leaking and causing misfires. I believe the general consensus is sometime during the 2003 model year Ford transitioned to an improved gasket design, so depending on your car's build date, you may be experiencing misfires due to oil getting in the plug wells.

You can search this forum for keywords such as "water" or maybe "cowl" to get some better details on how to fix the water issue and fix if that turns out to be what's happening.

-Rod

[gcwimmer]

Sounds like the classic COP failing, your 03 is covered by an extended warranty of 10 years/100K miles, take it to another Lincoln/Ford dealer and have the COP's stress test.


*I was composing while shorod was posting.

[joegr]

Yes, there's no reason to go through all this. Find a better dealer, and get them to stress test the coils. Ford will pay all costs to replace all the coils that fail. Take a copy of the letter below with you.

http://www.allstatetrucks.com/Recall...20bulletin.pdf

[llitespeeed]

thanks guys!

i got the car from a chevy dealer.

and does the warranty still include me even though
i am the second owner?

[gcwimmer]

Originally Posted by llitespeeed

thanks guys!

i got the car from a chevy dealer.

and does the warranty still include me even though
i am the second owner?

Yes.

[joegr]

Originally Posted by llitespeeed

thanks guys!

i got the car from a chevy dealer.

and does the warranty still include me even though
i am the second owner?

Yes, but you will have to go to a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealer for the free coil replacement. Note that there is one catch. If the stress testing were to find no bad coils, you would have to pay the $100 diagnostic charge. There's no need to worry about that. You clearly have at least one bad coil, and likely more. I'm not surprised that the Chevy dealer didn't get any fault codes. They probably don't have to ability to read the non-generic Ford codes and sensors.
Also, be aware that since you have an 03, they would replace the valve cover gaskets if there was oil in the spark plug wells. Unfortunately, it there was oil, the Chevy dealer probably cleaned it all out when you went back the first time.

[llitespeeed]

thanks so much. i'll let you all know what the dealer says.